Are we the victim of one boneheaded decision?

MSTerritoryDog

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Dec 2, 2021
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Leach had things going with a non-traditional offense, but it worked because we weren’t looking for the same players as our blue-blooded neighbor programs. His death was devastating on many levels, and under the circumstances, I believe promoting Arnet was the right decision. The wrong decision though was to let him make wholesale changes to staff and game plan. Under no other circumstances would ZA been hired for the position, so why was he given so much latitude? He wasn’t ready and should have had restrictions on his staff changes and game plan just like a new teen driver. I don’t know of many orgs that promote a young unproven manager and allows them to come in and change the entire approach overnight. It took Mullen 4 or 5 years to shape his team. Heck, I don’t think he ever offered or wanted a Dixon-type back, but he definitely used him successfully… because he knew gradual changes to offensive schemes are better than overnight 180s.

I think we are suffering the most from that terrible decision, and I’m not sure how we fix it in the age of NIL and Portal.
 

85Bears

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2020
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Leach had things going with a non-traditional offense, but it worked because we weren’t looking for the same players as our blue-blooded neighbor programs. His death was devastating on many levels, and under the circumstances, I believe promoting Arnet was the right decision. The wrong decision though was to let him make wholesale changes to staff and game plan. Under no other circumstances would ZA been hired for the position, so why was he given so much latitude? He wasn’t ready and should have had restrictions on his staff changes and game plan just like a new teen driver. I don’t know of many orgs that promote a young unproven manager and allows them to come in and change the entire approach overnight. It took Mullen 4 or 5 years to shape his team. Heck, I don’t think he ever offered or wanted a Dixon-type back, but he definitely used him successfully… because he knew gradual changes to offensive schemes are better than overnight 180s.

I think we are suffering the most from that terrible decision, and I’m not sure how we fix it in the age of NIL and Portal.
Yes you are 100% correct. some of us were pointing this out back before the 2023 season and were shouted down as “trolls”. anyone who denies this obvious turn of events at this point is a Fool or a Liar. We’ve got a few of those.
 

OG Goat Holder

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2022
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Leach had things going with a non-traditional offense, but it worked because we weren’t looking for the same players as our blue-blooded neighbor programs. His death was devastating on many levels, and under the circumstances, I believe promoting Arnet was the right decision. The wrong decision though was to let him make wholesale changes to staff and game plan. Under no other circumstances would ZA been hired for the position, so why was he given so much latitude? He wasn’t ready and should have had restrictions on his staff changes and game plan just like a new teen driver. I don’t know of many orgs that promote a young unproven manager and allows them to come in and change the entire approach overnight. It took Mullen 4 or 5 years to shape his team. Heck, I don’t think he ever offered or wanted a Dixon-type back, but he definitely used him successfully… because he knew gradual changes to offensive schemes are better than overnight 180s.

I think we are suffering the most from that terrible decision, and I’m not sure how we fix it in the age of NIL and Portal.
You are correct. And they gave Arnett the latitude due to booster pressure and lil ole moo mentality.

Its for this reason that I am not sure our football culture will ever be fixed.
 
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The Cooterpoot

Well-known member
Sep 29, 2022
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Leach had things going with a non-traditional offense, but it worked because we weren’t looking for the same players as our blue-blooded neighbor programs. His death was devastating on many levels, and under the circumstances, I believe promoting Arnet was the right decision. The wrong decision though was to let him make wholesale changes to staff and game plan. Under no other circumstances would ZA been hired for the position, so why was he given so much latitude? He wasn’t ready and should have had restrictions on his staff changes and game plan just like a new teen driver. I don’t know of many orgs that promote a young unproven manager and allows them to come in and change the entire approach overnight. It took Mullen 4 or 5 years to shape his team. Heck, I don’t think he ever offered or wanted a Dixon-type back, but he definitely used him successfully… because he knew gradual changes to offensive schemes are better than overnight 180s.

I think we are suffering the most from that terrible decision, and I’m not sure how we fix it in the age of NIL and Portal.
Get Out Theatre GIF by Tony Awards
 

Perd Hapley

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2022
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Leach had things going with a non-traditional offense, but it worked because we weren’t looking for the same players as our blue-blooded neighbor programs. His death was devastating on many levels, and under the circumstances, I believe promoting Arnet was the right decision. The wrong decision though was to let him make wholesale changes to staff and game plan. Under no other circumstances would ZA been hired for the position, so why was he given so much latitude? He wasn’t ready and should have had restrictions on his staff changes and game plan just like a new teen driver. I don’t know of many orgs that promote a young unproven manager and allows them to come in and change the entire approach overnight. It took Mullen 4 or 5 years to shape his team. Heck, I don’t think he ever offered or wanted a Dixon-type back, but he definitely used him successfully… because he knew gradual changes to offensive schemes are better than overnight 180s.

I think we are suffering the most from that terrible decision, and I’m not sure how we fix it in the age of NIL and Portal.
You can’t hire a guy and then dictate to him after the fact how he has to run his program schematically. That’s not something an AD or boosters can get involved with….they’re clueless in that regard.

If the decision was made to roll with Arnett due to lack of other options for continuity’s sake, then just let him keep the interim tag for all of 2023, put him on a 1-year deal for $3 million or whatever, and tell him the current staff is his to do as he wishes, but he’s not getting any more money for assistants. He can pay the new DC what he was making, pay an OC whatever the difference in his $3 million and Leach’s salary was (around $1-$1.5 million). Replace a position coach? You’re getting the next one for the same money, plus / minus buyout owed or paid by a school to MSU for hiring them away.

You do that, and you make it a very heavy gamble for him to break away from the Air Raid. He can do it if he wants, but he’s only got one shot to get it right with no buyout money at all if he gets it wrong. If he sticks with it w/Hollinghead or Spurrier Jr. calling plays, he lets them do their thing like Leach let him do his thing, and it still doesn’t work out perfectly on offense, then he’d likely not catch any hell if the defense was still performing. If we still simply made a bowl game (which we didn’t miss by much last year even as it were), he still gets some consideration for the HC gig in 2024.

But instead, he got a surprise 300% raise when his boss died, followed by the guarantee of getting $5 million if he got fired after a year….with no other strings attached. $8 million total….equal to 8 years of the salary at the current apex of his career. He 17s it all up? He still gets paid a shít ton. What incentive does he have to not do whatever the hell he wants?

He was a guy who wasn’t ready to be a HC at all….who was thrust into the role by things that had nothing to do with him. We should have treated it that way.
 
Nov 22, 2023
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Spurrier and/or Miller named as interim HC/OC was the only way out. We were too late in the cycle to get an established coach, and either/ both could have kept the offense going better than ZA. Either one of those 2 with ZA as DC couldn't have done any worse, and we might have gotten lucky. If it didn't work, the interim tag would have gotten us out with a lot less damage.
 

85Bears

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Jan 12, 2020
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Spurrier and/or Miller named as interim HC/OC was the only way out. We were too late in the cycle to get an established coach, and either/ both could have kept the offense going better than ZA. Either one of those 2 with ZA as DC couldn't have done any worse, and we might have gotten lucky. If it didn't work, the interim tag would have gotten us out with a lot less damage.
Yep, Mason Miller is a fine coach. You win 8-9 games and hold a real search for a proven coach. Probably the dumbest administrative/program move I’ve seen in my lifetime.
 

Maroon13

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Sep 29, 2022
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Our problem since December of 2017 is trying to hire an offensive mind for HC. Mississippi State football has never been a finesse program and never will be. Even during the Mullen years, the majority of our NFL players are from defense.

Recruit the best athletes you can find, build a defense and try to find an athlete for QB. That is your foundation for successful MSU football.
 

Called3rdstrikedawg

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May 7, 2016
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Just more revisionist history from these whining knuckleheads. Byrne has been gone a decade and a half and MSU athletics have been suffering ever since!! My Lord make it stop.
I just realized your nickname is after one of the worst State hires for head coach prior to the Croom debacle. State hired 2 "running backs" coaches and they both sucked as head coaches: Rockey Felker and Sylvester Crooms!
 
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85Bears

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Jan 12, 2020
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Our problem since December of 2017 is trying to hire an offensive mind for HC. Mississippi State football has never been a finesse program and never will be. Even during the Mullen years, the majority of our NFL players are from defense.

Recruit the best athletes you can find, build a defense and try to find an athlete for QB. That is your foundation for successful MSU football.
Problem is that Many of those defensive players from that era would be going out of state with six figure NIL deals today.
 

Dawg84

Member
Jul 28, 2015
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Spurrier and/or Miller named as interim HC/OC was the only way out. We were too late in the cycle to get an established coach, and either/ both could have kept the offense going better than ZA. Either one of those 2 with ZA as DC couldn't have done any worse, and we might have gotten lucky. If it didn't work, the interim tag would have gotten us out with a lot less damage.
I tend to agree with this scenario. Due to the tragic, and unusual circumstances, there certainly would have been available coaches, or retired coaches, that would have been willing to come in on an interim basis. This would have given our program some time to reevaluate the future.
 
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IBleedMaroonDawg

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Nov 12, 2007
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Retrospect is a ***** in SEC football. Looking back, we should have gone scorched earth on everything we had. We would not do that, considering our feelings at the time.
 

Maroon13

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Sep 29, 2022
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Exactly.

Cohen would just tell Keenum that Mama called and then lead the Tide to the 2021 CWS title over State.
So this is a new one....to me at least........ was this a real possibility?

Or an Bulldog urban legend from the depth of battered syndrome.
 
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Mr. Cook

Well-known member
Nov 4, 2021
2,625
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Leach had things going with a non-traditional offense, but it worked because we weren’t looking for the same players as our blue-blooded neighbor programs. His death was devastating on many levels, and under the circumstances, I believe promoting Arnet was the right decision. The wrong decision though was to let him make wholesale changes to staff and game plan. Under no other circumstances would ZA been hired for the position, so why was he given so much latitude? He wasn’t ready and should have had restrictions on his staff changes and game plan just like a new teen driver. I don’t know of many orgs that promote a young unproven manager and allows them to come in and change the entire approach overnight. It took Mullen 4 or 5 years to shape his team. Heck, I don’t think he ever offered or wanted a Dixon-type back, but he definitely used him successfully… because he knew gradual changes to offensive schemes are better than overnight 180s.

I think we are suffering the most from that terrible decision, and I’m not sure how we fix it in the age of NIL and Portal.
We are but it’s not the decision you think it is.

It is the individual, personal decision to follow or support a mediocre football program with no tradition of winning.

Fixing it is easy: 1) Accept it for what it is and be grateful for whatever wins happen or 2) Support something or someone else

Things could be a hell of a lot worse than being a victim as a result “your” football team losing.
 

Maroon Eagle

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May 24, 2006
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So this is a new one....to me at least........ was this a real possibility?

Or a Bulldog urban legend from the depth of battered syndrome.

Cohen has a history of not staying long at positions— whether it’s baseball coach or athletics director.

If he wanted to be AD at MSU, it meant that he was bored as coach. If he didn’t become AD, he’d have left State in a few years— and yes, Alabama would have been his first opportunity— and where his father taught law.

This is only an urban legend because he moved to AD before the 2017 season started.

If he didn’t become AD, it would have been very possible.
 
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