As if the NIL stuff wasn't enough of a hassle, now Rosebowl is using it to shame

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jb1020

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Jun 7, 2009
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Same as it ever was

nothing new here. 10 years ago they guilted you into donating money to the Bulldog club. I was a good soldier for a little while in hopes of getting a better seat. Now my nominal monthly contribution feels very insignificant to the ESPN money rolling in. We gave and we still sucked. I'm done.

Not getting me to pitch in on the NIL deals.
 

CharlieWinfield

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Feb 15, 2015
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Well, the thought that The Bulldog Initiative is an insult is somewhat discouraging, especially since I am in the middle of a two day road trip visiting with people about what we are doing.

At the outset, let me note that I have never, whether in public or in private, been critical of anyone who did not want to participate in NIL generally or contribute to the Initiative more particularly. It was not even a priority for me for the effort to be public, but there were a number of people who wanted to be able to help at some level, and there were a number of posts that were critical that we had failed to reach out more broadly, so we got a website going to allow people to help. Crowdsourcing is just a small part of what we are doing, but, to be clear, my standpoint is this - if people want to help, great. If people don’t want to participate, I understand.

I am going broke, ruining my health, and generally killing myself to try to help until some legislation arrives or sanity otherwise prevails. It was my intention to help - certainly not to insult.

PS - somebody asked before about our percentages of how much gets committed to deals. So far, even with start up expenses and costs, we are under 3% on our expense rate, and that should be looking even better moving forward.
 
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Dawgg

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Sep 9, 2012
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Well, the thought that The Bulldog Initiative is an insult is somewhat discouraging, especially since I am in the middle of a two day road trip visiting with people about what we are doing.

At the outset, let me note that I have never, whether in public or in private, been critical of anyone who did not want to participate in NIL generally or contribute to the Initiative more particularly. It was not even a priority for me for the effort to be public, but there were a number of people who wanted to be able to help at some level, and there were a number of posts that were critical that we had failed to reach out more broadly, so we got a website going to allow people to help. Crowdsourcing is just a small part of what we are doing, but, to be clear, my standpoint is this - if people want to help, great. If people don’t want to participate, I understand.

I am going broke, ruining my health, and generally killing myself to try to help until some legislation arrives or sanity otherwise prevails. It was my intention to help - certainly not to insult.

PS - somebody asked before about our percentages of how much gets committed to deals. So far, even with start up expenses and costs, we are under 3% on our expense rate, and that should be looking even better moving forward.

Gonna be honest, I kind of wanted you to put a button on that with "That being said, open up your checkbook, mother 17er", so I could read it in your calm Sunday Coffee cadence. Maybe we bring in Bart for that part.
 

Shmuley

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Mar 6, 2008
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God bless you. What you are experiencing is actually not too dissimilar to what most public servants experience. A thankless task where the vast majority of beneficiaries have no concept of the time, effort, energy and sacrifice that is made. Be encouraged that not everyone is an entitled piece of ****. It just seems that way most of the time.
 

aTotal360

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Nov 12, 2009
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Charlie, I don't *think* he means BI is specifically insulting. I think he means the concept of NIL is. I can see where people would be insulted that the multimillion dollar corporation is not the one stroking the check to float this. I think that's a very fair criticism.

During these tough times, asking someone to give an allowance to a kid that isn't even theirs's is bold.

Not blaming you at all. You have done Yeoman's work and we all are appreciative. A tip of the cap to you for taking this on in Blue Collar, USA. Much respect.
 
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CharlieWinfield

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Feb 15, 2015
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A quite fair criticism. I hope that Congress will step in (I recognize the foolishness of counting on them) and bring some sanity to this and that my career in this space is short-lived. MSU and those like us desperately need it.
 

thatsbaseball

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Have any "lawmakers" on either side of the isle given any indication that they're aware there's a problem here ?
 

CharlieWinfield

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Feb 15, 2015
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They have, and there are a few bills that have been introduced. From my standpoint, though, I am not sure enough of them are talking to the right people to understand what is really happening and the problems it is really creating.

I might be wrong, but I see a few possibilities, even absent Congressional action:

1. The market will settle. We are hearing of a lot of crazy deals, but, with those payments, comes a huge pressure to win. There are certainly exceptions, but most people have trouble remaining rich when they are complete idiots with their money. Surely, some of them will lose their interest when they see their money isn’t buying the outcome they hope for. (We will still be behind a settled market, so this is only a small bit of help).

2. The IRS will get involved and slow down the “charitable” NIL programs. I still can’t understand how some of these groups set themselves up as 501(c)(3) charities with a straight face when the bulk of their money is going directly to players. I see no problem with a charity using players to promote its purpose, but, when the purpose is paying athletes and doing good is a minor side-show, I just don’t see that lasting. This would slow some things down.

3. The NCAA will fall apart. The gist of this legally is that the NCAA is a monopoly. A smaller association that is not in a monopoly position would, in theory, have the ability to enter into collective bargaining with athletes and impose rules along the lines of “you want to come to our league, you get a scholarship and $50k when you graduate, but we own all your NIL until you leave, and this is all you get.” This may sound nuts, but I think NIL could be the last straw for the NCAA in its current form.
 

T-TownDawgg

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Nov 4, 2015
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Many things can be true at once.

NIL is a terrible concept.
Your work in NIL is appreciated.
NIL will never be the catalyst for MSU to move up in any sort of pecking order.
The University should pony up those funds.
Unless they want to be hypocrites, players benefiting from your efforts should pay you Jimmy Sexton percentages.
 

047Dog

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Charlie, I don't *think* he means BI is specifically insulting. I think he means the concept of NIL is. I can see where people would be insulted that the multimillion dollar corporation is not the one stroking the check to float this. I think that's a very fair criticism.

During these tough times, asking someone to give an allowance to a kid that isn't even theirs's is bold.

Not blaming you at all. You have done Yeoman's work and we all are appreciative. A tip of the cap to you for taking this on in Blue Collar, USA. Much respect.

Spot on. As a single parent I have teenagers that don’t get an allowance. You want spending money, go earn it. Yea yea athletes can’t get jobs. We get it. But they get other perks.

My kid with a 22 ACT and As and Bs won’t get a dime from our in-state schools. But now we are supposed to entice athletes with free money above and beyond the usual scholarship.

I’m fine with NIL as it was originally intended. You make a commercial spot or make an appearance at a car dealer and you get a few thousand bucks. MSU could have competed in that realm. But we have kids still in HS landing corporate deals for 6 and 7 figures to end up at one of the power schools anyway. It’s ridiculous, out of control, and in no way should a middle income person/family have to bear ANY responsibility in the recruiting process.
 

Connor Mead

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We should pool money, then divide it out across the remaining games, bet the spread every week. At the end of the season the NIL gets half the winnings. More games covered the more the NIL gets, more games covered over time will / should equal more wins.
I'm sure rosebowl would say this is added pressure the players and coaches don't need.
 

dickiedawg

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Feb 22, 2008
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I see it as more like the CEO is saying "tip your drivers if you want it to show up on time and not busted up." Or maybe "donate to your local driver's union if you want better service"
 

DAWG61

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Everyone is appreciative of what you're doing Charlie. Just know you're like the one salmon swimming up stream in Alaska that's deciding to kill the bears instead of swimming up stream to lay eggs.

 
Sep 12, 2013
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Just saw this thread. I posted on his thread on genes page…dunno if anyone else said the same thing because it’s 13 pages long and I’m not gonna read through all of it. But I said the same thing you just did. He playing ignorant but yea, what the OP said is exactly right.
 

BigDawg0074

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Oct 12, 2016
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I don’t begrudge those who want to participate in the BI and I sympathize with Charlie being in such a tough position. From an outside perspective I don’t see it making a difference but I don’t know what kind of money is needed. If the athletics department is not willing to spend more on recruiting then the onus should not be on fans to make up the difference needed to recruit better quality student athletes. Perhaps that is not the intention or goal of BI but that’s what it looks like when people as close to the program as Steve Robertson say the kinds of things he said on Out of Bounds.

I understand that Steve Robertson does not speak for John Cohen nor Charlie Winfield but he is viewed as an inside source by many in this fan base. The things he does and says should be viewed with close scrutiny when considering his relationship with the athletic department.
 

Requiem For A Dawg

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Dec 3, 2008
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Has anyone heard how his ticket sales are going for the rock event he put together?

I'm assuming not as anticipated since he is so salty about nil.

Probably not well. No one has heard of the headliner Lillian Axe.

Sounds like someone Rick’s would have on a Wednesday night with no cover.
 

Maroonthirteen

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Probably not well. No one has heard of the headliner Lillian Axe.

Sounds like someone Rick’s would have on a Wednesday night with no cover.

Reminds me of "This is 40." Paul Rudds character being upset Graham Parker didn't sell.

Anyways, he must have read this thread. He tweeted that approximately 100 tickets remain.
 

Mr. Cook

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Nov 4, 2021
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Probably not well. No one has heard of the headliner Lillian Axe.

Sounds like someone Rick’s would have on a Wednesday night with no cover.

Lillian Axe? My god -- that's like vintage 1989 --I used to have a couple of their cassettes
 

aTotal360

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Nov 12, 2009
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I don't think Lilian Axe is an awful idea. I'll preface that by saying I've never listened to them.

They are:
1) semi local (Louisiana)
2) pull in a older audience (hopefully with money)
3) affordable (we are eM State)

Steve is graciously doing the leg work on this so you have to accept the fact he's going to book who he wants. Right now, the options are Lillian Axe or nothing since no one else is stepping up to do something similar.

I don't envy Charlie and Steve at all. EVERYONE has a better idea on how to skin this cat.
 

Mayor of Little London

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Dec 26, 2016
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I do not like or agree with NIL in its current form. Middle class folks with mortgages and kids in this crap economy shouldn’t be the ones footing the bill for kids to make the schools, coaches and ESPN rich. BUT… if we don’t give something we will fall further behind. I’m not talking about behind the Bamas of the world either. I’m talking bout the other mid tier SEC programs. The more of us that don’t help only put more pressure on the ones that do. Hate the system but it is what we have. Still need to count our blessings that the changes in the last 20 years haven’t hurt us as much as some (southern miss for example). Hopefully something changes soon but let’s do the best with what we have.


Also, everyone should thank Charlie. Otherwise we would be more screwed than we already are.
 

thekimmer

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Aug 30, 2012
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The problem with that is it is out of the NCAA's hands.....

Only way MSU and about 125 other D1 schools can compete is if NIL is banned and all D1 scholarship players are paid the same amount. My suggestion is $1k a month. Eliminate paying OOC games and there's your money. Not from the consumer but from the schools themselves. Ya know the ones with the insane profits from football already.

The courts have ruled that a player's NIL belongs to them and they have the freedom to make money off of it.
 

Mr. Cook

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Not criticizing the band -- really like their stuff. My comment was from surprise that they were even still around doing their thing.

80s metal / rock of that genre is a dying breed -- most of us that listen to "Hair Nation" don't have any hair left
 

thekimmer

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Aug 30, 2012
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I haven’t kept up with him in forever. His show became 45 minutes of ads, a top 10 list that I don’t think anyone cares about, and the exact same takes that every other beat writer has. He’s the sole reason I will not eat at bulldog burger.

Kinda hate to pile on the guy so I will say I admire and share his allegiance to MSU and I sometimes get useful information from him. With that said, I do have struggles with his podcast. The top 10 list is an automatic fast forward. He also tends to be kinda preachy and come across as holier-than-thou. I also find his 'play-by-play' game recap a bit tedious. I listen to his pod maybe once every couple of weeks.
 

PirateDawg

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All this crap has me going to high school games again. Even there they want you to throw money at the program. We've lost the original idea behind the game just like we have for politics. None of it is about the people anymore. The focus now is all about the money.
 

dorndawg

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Sep 10, 2012
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All this crap has me going to high school games again. Even there they want you to throw money at the program. We've lost the original idea behind the game just like we have for politics. None of it is about the people anymore. The focus now is all about the money.

Late-stage capitalism is something else, ain't it?
 

DoggieDaddy13

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Dec 23, 2017
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And this is why most intelligent humans will drift away from spending time watching and worrying about college athletics.

I'm not all that intelligent so I'll be hanging on, watching and worrying, much longer than most.
 
Feb 20, 2011
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I do not like or agree with NIL in its current form. Middle class folks with mortgages and kids in this crap economy shouldn’t be the ones footing the bill for kids to make the schools, coaches and ESPN rich.

It doesn't matter what kind of economy we're living in or what people's mortgage payments are. If it's the schools, coaches, and ESPN making money from this, then they're the ones who should be putting up the money.

I get the notion of NIL, in the sense that a player should absolutely be able to market his name, image, and likeness. So I understand the concept of a business using a player and his NIL for marketing purposes. But what I don't get is this crowdsourcing bit. My simple mind understands this as a bunch of fans passing around a collection plate and the funds eventually make it into players hands. For doing what? Playing football? That's getting paid to play football, not marketing your NIL. I'm not naive. I get that, in the end, this is pay-for-play. But that brings back to the original point. The school should be footing that bill. Not the fans.
 

Smoked Toag

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Late-stage capitalism is something else, ain't it?
dorndouche ain't wrong here. Hard for me to accept that NIL is overly bad when people are paying big money for suites, Alexa and the notion of 'going out to eat' is a 3-4 day regular event for most families.
 

dorndawg

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Sep 10, 2012
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dorndouche ain't wrong here. Hard for me to accept that NIL is overly bad when people are paying big money for suites, Alexa and the notion of 'going out to eat' is a 3-4 day regular event for most families.
I laughed at dorndouche. Have a Path to 6-6.
 

thekimmer

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Aug 30, 2012
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I don't see Congress fixing this.....

A quite fair criticism. I hope that Congress will step in (I recognize the foolishness of counting on them) and bring some sanity to this and that my career in this space is short-lived. MSU and those like us desperately need it.

The ultimate problem is that college football is becoming a victim of its own success. It is a billion dollar sports empire operating under the ridiculous pretense of an amateur student-athlete enterprise. It is a profoundly unfair system where huge amounts of money combined with unlimited recruiting has spawned a small virtually impenetrable subset of super elite teams that vie for the championship every year. This has become boring as hell and is not good for the game. The introduction of NIL just makes it 10x worse.
 

DAWG61

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We could raise a billion dollars and it still won't make Leach adjust his play calling during a game when the opposing defense is "forcing" him to.
 

kired

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Aug 22, 2008
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And this is why most intelligent humans will drift away from spending time watching and worrying about college athletics.


I was talking to my wife last night about weekend plans with the kids... and she had to remind me we have a home football game Saturday at 11am. Guess I'm already drifting away
 

Trojanbulldog19

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Aug 25, 2014
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NIL needs to be funded by the tv deals and marketing departments of companies putting ads together to sell products to the fans of whatever schools. Like bulllck Toyota or whoever. Not the middle class family just going to watch games. These should be suppported by businesses snd the tv deals.
 

Maroon Eagle

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May 24, 2006
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It's a sellout.

From Steve:

[FONT="]Attention Mississippi State students: A generous Bulldog donor bought out the rest of the Rock Vegas tickets and wants some of you to have them. I will be handing out those donated tickets FREE of charge Wednesday at 1 PM on the drill field. First come first served! ??— Steve Robertson (@ScoutSteveR) September 26, 2022 [/FONT]
 
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