Baltimore Key bridge collapse

[Bison13]

The Francis Scott Keybridge off of the 695 beltway in Baltimore collapsed earlier this morning as a container ship ran into it around 130 this morning.

6 workers presumed dead after cargo ship crash levels Baltimore bridge

The six vanished after the Francis Scott Key Bridge disintegrated from the impact of a container ship that struck it early Tuesday. A search is now a recovery effort, officials said.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Nitt1300]

The Francis Scott Keybridge off of the 695 beltway in Baltimore collapsed earlier this morning as a container ship ran into it around 130 this morning.

6 workers presumed dead after cargo ship crash levels Baltimore bridge

The six vanished after the Francis Scott Key Bridge disintegrated from the impact of a container ship that struck it early Tuesday. A search is now a recovery effort, officials said.

www.nbcnews.com

First rule of ship handling is not to run into things like bridges.

 

[Bison13]

First rule of ship handling is not to run into things like bridges.

I don’t know if the video is in that article but you can see the power going off on the container ship. Doesn’t mean that there’s not driver air as well, but I don’t know if it’s completely their fault.

 

[Nitt1300]

I don’t know if the video is in that article but you can see the power going off on the container ship. Doesn’t mean that there’s not driver air as well, but I don’t know if it’s completely their fault.

It looked to me like the lights went out after they hit the bridge.

 

[rudedude]

Reports indicate ship lost power and then came back on again but too late to avoid the bridge abutment

 

[Nitt1300]

Reports indicate ship lost power and then came back on again but too late to avoid the bridge abutment

that's really bad luck- and ships that big don't stop on a dime when you drop anchor in an emergency like that

 

[Midnighter]

I don’t know if the video is in that article but you can see the power going off on the container ship. Doesn’t mean that there’s not driver air as well, but I don’t know if it’s completely their fault.

Here is a good shot of what happened. Hoping rescue efforts are successful.

 

[Midnighter]

that's really bad luck- and ships that big don't stop on a dime when you drop anchor in an emergency like that

Lost power twice only to recover too late to change course.

 

[Mufasa94]

Seeing a daylight view on TV from overhead, the ship was obviously traveling at an unanticipated skewed angle to the bridge. There is a structure (equivalent to a parking lot bollard) in the approach area to the pier that appears to be completely missed.

No idea if that angled approach was a practice that was allowed to be ignored or if the power issue was the main/sole cause of it.

 

[Nitt1300]

Seeing a daylight view on TV from overhead, the ship was obviously traveling at an unanticipated skewed angle to the bridge. There is a structure (equivalent to a parking lot bollard) in the approach area to the pier that appears to be completely missed.

No idea if that angled approach was a practice that was allowed to be ignored or if the power issue was the main/sole cause of it.

Ships follow prescribed courses to stay in the channel here is a link to the chart in question

Chart 12281 (noaa.gov)

 

[s1uggo72]

Lost power twice only to recover too late to change course.

Why? Just because the power goes out doesn’t mean the engines stop or the steering goes out. I believe they are on different systems I think they could have slammed the engines in reverse. Maybe they did and it was still too late

 

[PSUJam]

Why? Just because the power goes out doesn’t mean the engines stop or the steering goes out. I believe they are on different systems I think they could have slammed the engines in reverse. Maybe they did and it was still too late

 

[BobPSU92]

That’s not going to be good for business. That’s not going to be good for anybody.

 

[NittPicker]

It happened at around 1:30AM which hopefully means the bridge had minimal vehicle traffic. I feel for anyone who may have had a loved one crossing at the time.

Seems to me the entire harbor may be closed until they get debris removed. Aside from daily commuters being inconvenienced, it'll have a huge impact on east coast shipping. I hope Virginia, Philadelphia, and Wilmington can handle the extra traffic.

 

[StamfordBridgeVikingatLeftOffensiveTackle]

That’s not going to be good for business. That’s not going to be good for anybody.

 

[s1uggo72]

Ok explain it to me. Typical there are 2 systems, one electrical running off the generators, the other mechanical running the engines steering etc. even without steering you can still back up

 

[psuro]

Ok explain it to me. Typical there are 2 systems, one electrical running off the generators, the other mechanical running the engines steering etc. even without steering you can still back up

Are the mechanical switches controlled via electrical power? So, if the mechanical switches were activated by a solenoid, then they would need electrical power.

 

[NittPicker]

Ok explain it to me. Typical there are 2 systems, one electrical running off the generators, the other mechanical running the engines steering etc. even without steering you can still back up

I'm not a marine engineer but it doesn't seem as easy as simply backing up. A vessel that big is carrying a lot of momentum even when it's moving slowly. If the props are thrown into full reverse it'll take considerable time and distance to overcome the momentum.

 

[psuro]

I'm not a marine engineer but it doesn't seem as easy as simply backing up. A vessel that big is carrying a lot of momentum even when it's moving slowly. If the props are thrown into full reverse it'll take considerable time and distance to overcome the momentum.

At full speed, it's probably 2-3 miles or so, given relatively smooth water (open ocean). At the speed they were going, it would probably be between 1/4-1/2 miles. There are speed limits within the harbor and near structures.

 

[s1uggo72]

Are the mechanical switches controlled via electrical power? So, if the mechanical switches were activated by a solenoid, then they would need electrical power.

on the mechanical side, most dont run off the electrical power except the electrical power supplied by the engines. the lights usually are run off the generators but I dont know for sure. and its a good guess on taking a mile to stop depending on the current if any. Just figuring any way to stop the forward MO would lesson the impact on the bridge.

 

[BobPSU92]

I'm not a marine engineer but it doesn't seem as easy as simply backing up. A vessel that big is carrying a lot of momentum even when it's moving slowly. If the props are thrown into full reverse it'll take considerable time and distance to overcome the momentum.

Hang on. You’re on the McAndrew Board. We’re talking about a boat hitting a bridge. You’re a marine engineer.

 

[psuro]

Hang on. You’re on the McAndrew Board. We’re talking about a boat hitting a bridge. You’re a marine engineer.

And the best marine engineer on the internet.

 

[PSUAVLNC]

I work in the maritime industry and can tell you from my experience the poster above is exactly correct. The emergency generator took the load and it looks like in the required about of time. (30
Seconds) The ship had serious speed and momentum and no steering, more than likely the main engine never shut down or reversed. Disaster!!! Worst case scenario for ship handlers. There was never time to stop the main engine and reverse speed. The shaft is directly attached to the engine. There’s no reduction gear. The main engine has to stop, and then start in reverse. It takes time. It’s not an outboard engine.

The ship lost electrical power and this steering and the main engine continued running fwd. Container ships are very fast, and a ship needs momentum to have steerage.

 

[s1uggo72]

I work in the maritime industry and can tell you from my experience the poster above is exactly correct. The emergency generator took the load and it looks like in the required about of time. (30
Seconds) The ship had serious speed and momentum and no steering, more than likely the main engine never shut down or reversed. Disaster!!! Worst case scenario for ship handlers. There was never time to stop the main engine and reverse speed. The shaft is directly attached to the engine. There’s no reduction gear. The main engine has to stop, and then start in reverse. It takes time. It’s not an outboard engine.

The ship lost electrical power and this steering and the main engine continued running fwd. Container ships are very fast, and a ship needs momentum to have steerage.

to that end here is this guys assessment

 

[BobPSU92]

Dumb question from a dumb interwebs marine engineer:

The Key Bridge collapsed like it was made of twigs. Could they rebuild this bridge to be more resistant to such an impact?

 

[BobPSU92]

Out of curiosity, I wanted to see how Google Maps showed traffic on what was the Key Bridge. “Closed until Dec 2024”.

 

[PSUAVLNC]

to that end here is this guys assessment

That black smoke tells me the pilot was backing down hard but could not arrest fwd momentum. Probably the propeller is cavitating hard. And when you start to back down the rudder acts in reverse. You lose steering when you back down. There’s so much left to unpack. It’ll be a long investigation. Dundalk is just north of FSK. Port authorities or USCG should have required tug assist till south of FSK bridge

 

[Mrdibbs]

BobPSU92

My simple reply would be to construct a more "robust" protection structure around the channel piers.

The Key Bridge did have protection structures but it appears that they were too far away from the bridge piers to be effective in this instance.

Would love to see a reenactment from a satellites perspective to confirm what I think I am saying.

 

[bbrown]

It happened at around 1:30AM which hopefully means the bridge had minimal vehicle traffic. I feel for anyone who may have had a loved one crossing at the time.

Seems to me the entire harbor may be closed until they get debris removed. Aside from daily commuters being inconvenienced, it'll have a huge impact on east coast shipping. I hope Virginia, Philadelphia, and Wilmington can handle the extra traffic.

Philly, Wilmington and VA will be fine. but both the harbor tunnels and Ft. McHenry tunnels will be a mess. Harbor Tunnel is on the smaller side.

 

[bbrown]

Ok explain it to me. Typical there are 2 systems, one electrical running off the generators, the other mechanical running the engines steering etc. even without steering you can still back up

Yea Its not like backing up a car. You know the old adage about turning a ship around, right?

 

[BobPSU92]

Dumb question from a dumb interwebs marine engineer:

The Key Bridge collapsed like it was made of twigs. Could they rebuild this bridge to be more resistant to such an impact?

BobPSU92

My simple reply would be to construct a more "robust" protection structure around the channel piers.

The Key Bridge did have protection structures but it appears that they were too far away from the bridge piers to be effective in this instance.

Would love to see a reenactment from a satellites perspective to confirm what I think I am saying.

Apparently, nothing could be done.

https://www.foxnews.com/live-news/us-baltimore-bridge-collapse-mass-casualty-event-03-26-2024

(Scroll down to “Civil engineer explains…”.)

 

[Midnighter]

I wonder why they keep saying 'collapsed' when it was really 'destroyed by a powerless boat'?

 

[PSU1969A]

Gawd a lot of THINKING in your post. If you do not know the facts, suggest you do not post B.S.

 

[NittPicker]

Hang on. You’re on the McAndrew Board. We’re talking about a boat hitting a bridge. You’re a marine engineer.

We can be anything we want on the internet. My first choice was marine biologist but that was already taken.

 

[Nitt1300]

Now the lawyers will take over- who pays, the shipping line? the owners of the ship? Both?

 

[psuro]

Now the lawyers will take over- who pays, the shipping line? the owners of the ship? Both?

jay?

 

[BobPSU92]

Now the lawyers will take over- who pays, the shipping line? the owners of the ship? Both?

I blame Francis Scott Key for not building a stronger bridge.

 

[psuro]

I blame Francis Scott Key for not building a stronger bridge.

F Scott Key? I agree - if Scott Key can't build a stronger bridge - eff him!

 

[s1uggo72]

Yea Its not like backing up a car. You know the old adage about turning a ship around, right?

thanks @bbrown I get all that.

 

[PSUJam]