Baseball Buy/Sell.....
- Thread starter TilloDawg
- Start date
They have depressed me so far this year, I have lost all enthusiasm as of right now. It can be regained, but at this pace, it wont be until some big changes are made.
I mean, we're losing to bad teams. It's embarassing.
I imagine that the only people left on the bandwagon are the Polk diehards who are just waiting on his next miracle. They will tolerate only so much losing, maybe more than those of us with common sense, but we all have our breaking point.</p>
I imagine that the only people left on the bandwagon are the Polk diehards who are just waiting on his next miracle. They will tolerate only so much losing, maybe more than those of us with common sense, but we all have our breaking point.</p>
The sheep on Ellis's blog seem to think everything is just fine and we'll turn it around. I've tried to explain it, but they are willfully blind to the suckitude of our team right now. Ellis Blog
Oh, and I buy.
Oh, and I buy.
but buy that they will lose it before the season is half over. We may be about to see unprecedented levels of suckiness by our baseball team. I was one of the few saying we would suck before the season even started. But I have to say, I had no idea we would suck as badly as we have so far.
The only thing that they will respond to is getting their *** handed to them by Ole Miss. You'll see a lot of the bandwagon people jump off then. Right now they're in denial, but actual results will reveal the cold hard truth.
Yeah, pat. I knew we had some questions, but damn. I just didn't expect the pitching to be significantly worse. We're hitting .322 as a team so far, which is not bad.
With the excitement surrounding the good fortunes of the basketball team, I don't think very people have really given much notice to the fortunes of the baseball team.
We're 8 points below the .330 he predicted and we've played nothing but the dregs of Div. I baseball. Wait till we start seeing some average pitching, much less the All-American pitching we'll see a lot of in the SEC. I do think we'll be a decent offensive team though. The problem is, other than Pigott and Weatherford, I don't see any pitching at all on this team. And Pigott's about an average #2 SEC starter.
Damn! Meant to reply to Todd4State. I include myself in the 95%+ dumbassedness on this board.
Damn! Meant to reply to Todd4State. I include myself in the 95%+ dumbassedness on this board.
Sadly enough for your sheep, they'll be fine with anything the baseball team does for the next year or so at least until Bianco gets us to Omaha and does some damage there. Sad as it is (and we have a ton of fans who are like this as well), but for your sheep, Polk gave them one bragging point over Ole Miss last year in getting the team to Omaha. That gives them a talking point, and that's all they want. Of course, that talking point goes away if and when we do make it to Omaha, especially if it happens a couple of times. And that's when the sheep will wake up and react.
Our sheep football fans were the same way. They were fine giving Orgeron time even with the losing seasons, because MSU was having seasons as bad or worse. You finally snapped out of it and went to a bowl game last year, and all of a sudden our sheep weren't content to give him time anymore. It's sad, but we have a ton of fans who use each other as measuring sticks.
Our sheep football fans were the same way. They were fine giving Orgeron time even with the losing seasons, because MSU was having seasons as bad or worse. You finally snapped out of it and went to a bowl game last year, and all of a sudden our sheep weren't content to give him time anymore. It's sad, but we have a ton of fans who use each other as measuring sticks.
Ron got an early pass from me for the post season job last year BUT that proves there is no excuse for the current play. I figured we'ed miss Moreland and Easly but this is ridiculous. If he can't do better in SEC play this go around then hopefully Byrne will introduce the legend to permanent retirement.
if not for Stanz and basketball doing so well, Polk would be getting hell right now. Give it time.
Your bats will be fine....as I said a week or so ago, .330 is stupid and really isn't possible, but .315 or so is, and will win you some games. The problem is, and has been the pitching. Outside of Weatherford, you don't have another pitcher that would throw significant innings at most of the other upper echelon schools in the conference. Aaron is a freaking stud, but does you no good at the back of the pen when you can't get him the ball with a lead. IMO, this falls on Raffo, and he is the defacto recruiting coordinator, and hasn't done a good job evaluating these guys. You almost have to go outside of the state to find these guys, because the in-state guys are usually very raw, and go the draft route. Pigott has been servicable, but honestly, he should probably be a midweek guy.
I still think State can get it going, but I said before the year they were the fourth of fifth best team in the division due to thier pitching, and I still think that is the case.
I still think State can get it going, but I said before the year they were the fourth of fifth best team in the division due to thier pitching, and I still think that is the case.
independencebowlmainstay said:
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Everything else, I wouldn't necessarily disagree with, but you lost me here. Pigott is more than a midweek guy. He might not be the guy you want as your Friday starter, but he'd be at least a No. 2 or No. 3 guy for most schools, and he'd do well in that role. He's definitely a weekend guy. He doesn't overpower you, but he'll pretty much give you a chance to win every time out.
As the song goes, "We have a long way to go and a short time to get there". There is a slight possibilty that we could turn it around, but I just dont see any basis for this theory. Yes, it could happen, but based on what.....going to cws LAST year? You have to look at what we have done this year and try to find some hope and I cant find enough to say that we might turn this season around.
Its like one of my classes at State one year going into the final exam.....I was informed that I had to make a 103 on the final exam to pass the course. So yes, there was a possibility that I could pass but based on prior performance there was no way in hell I was gonna pass. In the end I simply conceded the class and did not take the test, and with Polks "thats baseball" attitude, I look for the diamond dawgs to do the same. They are not competing against weak teams and I dont look for them to compete against average-above average teams. I could be wrong and I truely hope that I am, but based on what I have seen on the diamond so far I cant logically say that they "May" turn it around, I can only "Hope".
Its like one of my classes at State one year going into the final exam.....I was informed that I had to make a 103 on the final exam to pass the course. So yes, there was a possibility that I could pass but based on prior performance there was no way in hell I was gonna pass. In the end I simply conceded the class and did not take the test, and with Polks "thats baseball" attitude, I look for the diamond dawgs to do the same. They are not competing against weak teams and I dont look for them to compete against average-above average teams. I could be wrong and I truely hope that I am, but based on what I have seen on the diamond so far I cant logically say that they "May" turn it around, I can only "Hope".
independencebowlmainstay said:
As far as recruiting, I agree. I'm getting a little tired of the inflated opinions on kids that MSU supposedly beat UM on and then they don't turn out...and then you find out MSU offered a bit more, etc...like Mr. Birmingham Southern himself. I wonder about Caleb Reed now b/c I hear UM just wasn't interested in offering that much and he's being trumpeted as the #1 recruit in this class. Before the last couple of years I'd have laughed and said MSU just beat UM...not so sure anymore.</p>Pigott may me a mid-week guy based on draftability and raw talent or the expectation people have of the "perfect" team or rotation. The reality is that at least half the teams in the SEC if not 8-10 of them would have him in the rotation right now...very likely UM. Pigott is more accomplished at this point than Nathan Baker and nobody knows how Drew Pomeranz will react against an SEC team...but we know that Pigott can get it done against the best. He may not do it every time and maybe more like half the time but he does it often enough to be considered more than a midweek guy. As far as accomplishments, only Lance Lynn at UM is more accomplished. Satterwhite may be more coveted but I well remember his very high ERA as a frosh and those plastic wins he got as well as his numerous meltdowns last year out of the pen.
Right now, Pigott would be a midweek guy at Ole Miss. That is just a fact. Satterwhite and Baker both have better stuff far and away, even if they sometimes struggle throwing strikes. That being said, he has stuck it up our *** for two years, so it is what it is. Crosswhite is a joke, and was coming out of HS. The Frosh are decent, but not great. Having Falkenberry and Lea not pan out was obviously huge blows, but I told Tommy when they were recruiting Paul that they were offering the kid WAY too much money. His response was that they needed to beat LSU and Arkansas for the kid, and the only way to do that was money at that point. This was directly from Raffo. Lea is great when on the field, but the question is, how often is he going to be there? Dan will run into the same things with him at Louisville. As for Caleb Reed....he is a very good player. The great thing is you have no chance to lose him to the draft. He isn't quite ready yet, but he will be in two years. Next to House, he is the best player in the state this season. House is a punk, so if I had my choice, it would be Reed hands down. He will play for you somewhere next season. True Ole Miss didn't offer as much as State, but I don't believe that was by choice. They just didn't have it available for next season. Their money is tied up for the most part, for two years.
We have some other guys that are very good, but Pigott is not as weak of a pitcher as you paint him to be. And besides, using us is a bad comparison because our pitching staff is very deep. Almost definitely for every other team in the SEC, he'd be a weekend guy, maybe not Friday night everywhere, but he'd at least be Saturday or Sunday at pretty much every SEC school.
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then SOMEBODY damn sure should be getting pissed with the results.
I personally think you are full of ****, on account of you saying Pigott would be a midweek guy for Ole Miss. He'd be the Saturday guy for Bianco, too. He's not as good as Lynn, but he's better than anyone else you have.
I personally think you are full of ****, on account of you saying Pigott would be a midweek guy for Ole Miss. He'd be the Saturday guy for Bianco, too. He's not as good as Lynn, but he's better than anyone else you have.
but he's not talking about illegal money. He's talking about the fact that in baseball you can choose to offer a guy a bigger scholarship (money) to try to beat out a competitor. If you're offering a 40% ride, and another team is offering 70%, then the other team is giving more money to the prospect.
And that's one of the problems baseball faces. No two scholarship offers are equal. In football and basketball, if you get an offer at one school, it's the same as an offer at the other school. Your decision can be purely based on the program, playing time, the coach, facilities, etc. In baseball, the amount of money you are being offered also comes into play, so a lesser program can steal a prospect from a larger program if they make a player a higher priority.
And that's one of the problems baseball faces. No two scholarship offers are equal. In football and basketball, if you get an offer at one school, it's the same as an offer at the other school. Your decision can be purely based on the program, playing time, the coach, facilities, etc. In baseball, the amount of money you are being offered also comes into play, so a lesser program can steal a prospect from a larger program if they make a player a higher priority.
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that went right over my head. Never thought about it that way.
Guess you better hope your full scholly badasses pan out or you'll be way up the creek. Either that or recruit rich players that don't care about money.
I never listen to Polk's rants about scholarships, Hope, NCAA, Title whatever, etc. I guess I should and I'd be more informed. But I'm of the mind that coaching in and of itself means a great deal in baseball, so I still think Polk should be able to win big in Starkville, because we get good players just because of him.
Guess you better hope your full scholly badasses pan out or you'll be way up the creek. Either that or recruit rich players that don't care about money.
I never listen to Polk's rants about scholarships, Hope, NCAA, Title whatever, etc. I guess I should and I'd be more informed. But I'm of the mind that coaching in and of itself means a great deal in baseball, so I still think Polk should be able to win big in Starkville, because we get good players just because of him.
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<font size="2">Player ERA W-L APP GS CG SHO/CBO SV IP H R ER BB SO 2B 3B HR AB B/Avg WP HBP BK SFA SHA
Justin Pigott....... 4.51 7-7 17 16 2 0/1 0 113.2 133 67 57 24 76 24 4 7 452 .294 5 15 1 4 11
C. Satterwhite...... 3.31 4-4 27 0 0 0/1 4 54.1 49 23 20 28 44 9 1 1 198 .247 2 2 0 4 7
Draw your own conclusions. It's kind of apples and oranges because you're comparing a starter to a reliever. I think a case could be made either way, but if we're talking about who would start over the other, I'd give a shaky nod to Pigott.</font>
Justin Pigott....... 4.51 7-7 17 16 2 0/1 0 113.2 133 67 57 24 76 24 4 7 452 .294 5 15 1 4 11
C. Satterwhite...... 3.31 4-4 27 0 0 0/1 4 54.1 49 23 20 28 44 9 1 1 198 .247 2 2 0 4 7
Draw your own conclusions. It's kind of apples and oranges because you're comparing a starter to a reliever. I think a case could be made either way, but if we're talking about who would start over the other, I'd give a shaky nod to Pigott.</font>
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and Pigott is who I'd rather have on the mound over Satterwhite, and it's not even debatable in my opinion.</p>
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WTF to you mean it's not debatable? I'm agreeing with you that I'd pick Pigott over Satterwhite as a starter, but there's a very reasonable chance we could both be wrong. Satterwhite did have a 1.20 better ERA and a .047 better opponent's batting average last year.</p>
Guy #1
ERA 3.31
K/BB 2.2
K/BB+HBP 2.0
Opp Bating avg. .247
WHIP 1.31
Guy #2
ERA 4.51
K/W 3.17
K/BB+HBP 1.95
Opp Batting Avg. .294
WHIP 1.52
The only thing guy number 1 has better is K/BB, but that is null because he hit a lot of batters, which is only better in the sense that it keeps pitch counts lower. Otherwise its the same thing as a BB.
Then we can also add the fact that guy #1 has been on Team USA and is a projected first round draft selection. Your right, Guys #2 is better.
C'mon, there isn't a coach in the country that would take Justin Pigott over Cody Satterwhite, not even Ron Polk.
ERA 3.31
K/BB 2.2
K/BB+HBP 2.0
Opp Bating avg. .247
WHIP 1.31
Guy #2
ERA 4.51
K/W 3.17
K/BB+HBP 1.95
Opp Batting Avg. .294
WHIP 1.52
The only thing guy number 1 has better is K/BB, but that is null because he hit a lot of batters, which is only better in the sense that it keeps pitch counts lower. Otherwise its the same thing as a BB.
Then we can also add the fact that guy #1 has been on Team USA and is a projected first round draft selection. Your right, Guys #2 is better.
C'mon, there isn't a coach in the country that would take Justin Pigott over Cody Satterwhite, not even Ron Polk.
"and Pigott is who I'd rather have on the mound over Satterwhite, and it's not even debatable in my opinion." That's funny right there. To each his own but to say it's not even debatable that some would rather have a projected late first to early secound round draft pick on the mound over a crafty lefty who will never sniff the majors is funny.
It's not debatable.
Seriously, the reasons I took Pigott over Satterwhite based on last year was the better control (but I didn't take into account all the hit batters which pretty much evens out that factor) and the fact Pigott has proven he can start and eat up innings (we've all seen plenty of pitchers who looked great pitching out of the pen, but sucked when they had to pitch twice as many innings as a starter). Even then, I almost took Satterwhite. It's very early this year, but it's hard to see how either could be doing much better than they are. Both are 2-0, with opponents hitting in the very low .200s. Pigott's ERA is higher at 2.25 to 0.75, but they haven't pitched enough innings yet for that to be a significant difference. I think it's safe to say that either would be in the weekend rotation pretty much anywhere.
Seriously, the reasons I took Pigott over Satterwhite based on last year was the better control (but I didn't take into account all the hit batters which pretty much evens out that factor) and the fact Pigott has proven he can start and eat up innings (we've all seen plenty of pitchers who looked great pitching out of the pen, but sucked when they had to pitch twice as many innings as a starter). Even then, I almost took Satterwhite. It's very early this year, but it's hard to see how either could be doing much better than they are. Both are 2-0, with opponents hitting in the very low .200s. Pigott's ERA is higher at 2.25 to 0.75, but they haven't pitched enough innings yet for that to be a significant difference. I think it's safe to say that either would be in the weekend rotation pretty much anywhere.
When he came back, we had a solid rotation and needed bullpen help bad. Bianco figured he would be used better in the bullpen. I know they were worried about him health wise and didn't want to put him in the rotation and have him get hurt again too. I think if he had been healthy from day 1, he would have been a starter.
The day after last season ended, Bianco said Satterwhite would be a starter this season. I think it was more circumstance than talent.
The day after last season ended, Bianco said Satterwhite would be a starter this season. I think it was more circumstance than talent.
I agree with you. Pigott is very tough. At this point he has been more consistent than Satterwhite. Pigott is a great college pitcher with very little MLB potential. Satterwhite has been an inconsistent college pitcher with flashes of dominance wih huge MLB potential. It is definitely debatable as to who you would rather have on the mound in a college series. You can make arguments for both (as you have).
Pigott, based on experience, and prior results would get a nod over Baker or Pomeranz, though both would probably push him by the end of the year.
And it's debatable whether he or Satterwhite would be your Saturday guy, primarily because Satterwhite has little experience as a college starter due to circumstances.
And I don't think anyone would take Pigott over Lynn. Which means he'd either be our Saturday or Sunday guy, at least at this point. And for most SEC teams he'd at least be the Saturday guy.
And it's debatable whether he or Satterwhite would be your Saturday guy, primarily because Satterwhite has little experience as a college starter due to circumstances.
And I don't think anyone would take Pigott over Lynn. Which means he'd either be our Saturday or Sunday guy, at least at this point. And for most SEC teams he'd at least be the Saturday guy.
I've seen them both pitch plenty and I'm taking Pigott over anyone at UM with the exception of Lynn. To say he wouldn't be a weekend starter at any school in the SEC is rediculous. He is the most consistent pitcher we've had since Paul M. I can count on one hand the number of times Pigott didn't turn in a quality start over the last 3 seasons.
As far as comparing him to Satterwhite as a reliever, perhaps you need to compare them when Pigott was a reliever as a Soph. He opened the year with 20 scoreless innings and had a sub 1.00 ERA in the pen before coming into a starting role. He finished that year at 6-1 and led the SEC in ERA at 1.66 in 65 IP and walked like 4 batters the entire season. His success in the postseason goes without saying, as he has been on the regional team for everyone he has played in and was the MVP for shutting down FSU at their place last year.
He may not be 6'4" and throw in the 90's, but he's better than most SEC weekend pitchers.
As far as comparing him to Satterwhite as a reliever, perhaps you need to compare them when Pigott was a reliever as a Soph. He opened the year with 20 scoreless innings and had a sub 1.00 ERA in the pen before coming into a starting role. He finished that year at 6-1 and led the SEC in ERA at 1.66 in 65 IP and walked like 4 batters the entire season. His success in the postseason goes without saying, as he has been on the regional team for everyone he has played in and was the MVP for shutting down FSU at their place last year.
He may not be 6'4" and throw in the 90's, but he's better than most SEC weekend pitchers.
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