baseball facts

[TheCosmoKramer]

I am an MSU homer. Though I try to be objective, I probably can't be truly objective.

Over the past 4 seasons, Ole Miss has done better than MSU in baseball. Last season, MSU did better than Ole Miss at baseball (though, arguably, Ole Miss had a better team). Over the past 10 or so years, State has done better than Ole Miss as baseball. Right now, Ole Miss has a better baseball coach than MSU. MSU can still outdraw Ole Miss in baseball right now.

Which of these facts are most relevant in determining who has the better baseball program? I have no idea, which is why I said it's arguable which program is better right now.

This year (and probably as long as the coaches stay the same), Ole Miss will have a better chance to make it to Omaha than MSU. But, if Polk were to retire this year, I could easily see that changing within 2-3 years. Thus, I'm not convinced that the baseball program at Ole Miss has clearly surpassed the baseball program at MSU. But, again, perhaps it's just because I'm a homer.

 

[Todd04State]

I think that Ole Miss's is in better shape in the short term for sure. They have two pitchers who could be first round picks. They will likely leave after this year, though. They also return several other pitchers with experience, notably Baker and Cryer. They have both of their catchers back, 3/4 of their infield from last year, and their 2/3 of their OF. Many of their players are juniors.

Now, MSU has a lot of So. and 1 senior who starts and that's Andy Rice. We are younger than they are this year, but we have some players that will probably be pretty good for a few years- Forrest Moore, Busby, Cody Freeman, Nappi, Ryan Powers and then you have guys like Whitney, Bowen, Sneed, Turner, and Conner Powers who are So. That's not too shabby.

Also, I don't know a lot about the recruiting, but in Mississippi we signed two of the top players in the state, and Ole Miss only got one from Tupelo, and actually lost maybe the top prospect to Tulane after he had committed to UM.

So, I think when you look at both programs, they're both pretty darn good. Yes, they're better right now, but we're not in bad shape either. I'll be honest- Ole Miss being good could be one of the best things to happen to MSU baseball because it forces Polk to get off of his *** and keep us up at a high level.

As far as my son, I would encourage them to go to State mainly because of Polk's reputation as a teacher and the fact that he has developed many players that have had success in the Big Leagues. I know that's not a fair comparison because Polk has been at it a lot longer, but if someone has a strong reputation in that area, it makes sense to go that direction. Also, if my son was a pitcher, I know that Polk won't abuse him- and I'm not saying that Bianco does. Also, MSU does seem to put a high emphasis on the player's education and that's a big positive as well.

 

[8dog]

"Nothing in my original post was about Polk or where we are headed"

the question was which program would you rather have over the last five years and looking forward. You said State. I can only imagine that means you feel good about where we are headed. If not, then I don't know how you support your answer.

And if we had done what bianco has done since Polk's return, I'd be elated. Its weak to suggest that I or anyone else would ask for more. Take that Gene's Page.

 

[DawgTeacher]

luck or no luck we've made it and UM hasn't. If everybody sets the standard for going to Omaha, then we've 1-upped them in the past 5 years (or whatever the time frame is). Let me remind you of the debacle of a few years ago from MSU. We go undefeated through the first 19 games or so, become #1 in a poll or 2 and then don't make it to Hoover (I believe). I'm not saying we're repeating this year, and for damn sure not saying ole piss will be hosting another regional, super regional (and losing it after winning the first game of the 3 game series). Screw the rebels, I hate their guts!!!

 

[RebelBruiser]

Quote:_________________________________________________This year (and probably as long as the coaches stay the same), Ole Miss will have a better chance to make it to Omaha than MSU. But, if Polk were to retire this year, I could easily see that changing within 2-3 years. Thus, I'm not convinced that the baseball program at Ole Miss has clearly surpassed the baseball program at MSU. But, again, perhaps it's just because I'm a homer._________________________________________________

Program-wise, MSU has just as much potential long term, probably more than ours due to history, but anyone that says MSU is in better position this year and for the immediate future as far as trying to get to Omaha and win it all is looking through maroon colored glasses.

And yes, it has been purely chance that we haven't made it to Omaha in the last 4 years. When you get in a double elimination setting in baseball against other good teams, the best team doesn't always win. If two teams are fairly evenly matched, as they usually are in Supers, it's pretty much a toss up for a 3 game set. And like I said before, as long as Bianco keeps fielding teams that are good enough to compete for a national title, he'll eventually knock that door down and not only get to Omaha but possibly do some damage once there.

As I mentioned before, does anyone believe Michigan was a better baseball team last year than Vandy? If you answer yes, you're lying. But in a double elimination setting, they were able to play well and eliminate Vandy. Play that regional 10 times and Vandy probably would win at least 8 of them. It just happened that one of those times didn't happen when it counted.

 

[ArrowDawg]

....fooling themselves. Getting to the CWS last year was nice for MSU, but did anyone notice how completely out of everyone else's league we were when we got there? It's always been the same for us, except for 1985. We get there once in a while, but we have no chance at all of competing with any other team that's there.

That's fine if some MSU fans want to hold on to the belief that we still have the best program in the state, but it isn't true. Being the best means consistency over a long period of time, and that's what Rebel baseball has been since Bianco took over. Okay, so they've choked every time they get into a Super regional, and they should be hammered for doing so. But the difference between them and MSU is that they've earned a number of those opportunities, and unless something changes they'll continue to get into that situation until they finally get to Omaha. And when they do, you better worry if you've ever been afraid of them winning a CWS title before MSU. If they do get there, they'll be good enough to win it.

I've been saying during the off-season that last year was nice, but all these high expectations for the upcoming season were ridiculous. I could end up being proven wrong, and I hope I am, but recent history shows us that it'll likely be another 4-5 years of mediocre baseball before MSU has another uprising and makes a run at Omaha.

 

[msubball2525]

I'm tired of hearing this crap. No way is the rebel program on the rise. I know they have had a good run the last few years but almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Remember the last time Polky handed off a program to another coach, McMahon, that coach went to Omaha the very next year.

Also, it seems that McConnell is a better coach right now than Bianco. The reason...at least he has been to Omaha.

You judge programs by how many times they have been to Omaha, not how many times they have gotten close in a row. Sorry Ole Miss, go to Omaha and then you can BEGIN to talk about having a good program. Until then...SHUTUP!!!!

 

[CroomOwesMeAnApology]

"So according to you for us to expect to get there is laughable because we haven't been in 25 years"

35 actually.

"But I would argue that our program, having won the most games in the SEC over the last 4 years, going 13-5 vs MSU over that time, hosting 4 regionals, going to 3 supers, hosting 2 of them, and undergoing a major stadium renovation is on better ground than MSU's right now."

Damn, that is alot of banners to hang. Good thing you've got that stadium expansion thing going.

But seriously, I would take OM's program right now as well. I hoped Polk would retire after his magical run to Omaha last year.

 

[msubball2525]

I totally disagree. We were competitive in 1997 and 1998. 1985 is the closest we have come to winning but that was it. If you remember, we had a pretty good pitcher by the name of Dubose who could beat anybody on anyday.

I just can't see Ole Miss having a better program than us no matter how close they have come. You actually have to go to Omaha to win it so the argument that not all the best teams make it is crap. Michigan beat Vandy AT Vandy last year. So guess what, that makes them the better team no matter how many times you think that would happen if played again. It is only played once and whoever sacks up and wins, wins.

 

[dawgoneyall]

Anyone paying any attention can see Polk has let our program fall behind ole miss's. There really isn't anything to argue about.

 

[msubball2525]

Please explain yourself dawgoneyall...How can you say that?

Yes they have ALMOST made it to Omaha for several years in a row.

Tell me this, can you win a NC if you ALMOST get to Omaha?

 

[CroomOwesMeAnApology]

"And yes, it has been purely chance that we haven't made it to Omaha in the last 4 years."

Not so much chance as choke but with the same result.

You had a Super Regional handed to to you when Nebraska lost much the same as we did last year with Clemson. You've had plenty of chances. At some point, you Rebels will get tired of endless chokes by Bianco. Well, maybe not.

 

[patdog]

At some point, multiple super regionals outweigh 1 CWS appearance and nothing else but regional losses. See the SI article that was linked earlier. Our baseball program under Polk has been reduced to a Cinderella when we finally do make it to a CWS (one in which there was no question which of the 4 teams in our bracket didn't belong). You mention that Polk left McMahon with a CWS team and he did. Of course, our program had been foundering in the 90s until we persuaded McMahon to return to Starkville as an assistant and head coach in waiting. Suddenly, 4 years later we went to 2 CWS in a row. Coincidence? Then McMahon leaves Polk with a team that went to 2 super regionals in a row and in Polk's second year had more players drafted than we've ever had in our history. And what did Polk do with it. Not a damn thing! He let a program that had been to 2 CWS and 2 more super regionals in 5 years slip to the point that we haven't even hosted a regional in the last 5 years.

 

[patdog]

If Mississippi hasn't passed us by, where are all the regionals we've hosted in recent years? Where are the consecutive year super regional streaks? Where are the winning SEC records (Mississippi is the only school in the league with a winning record in each of the last 5 seasons)? Where are the national rankings? Where are all the players drafted? Why have they won something like 13 of the last 18 games against us? Like I said earlier, we finish ONE game ahead of them last year and our fan base pisses themselves they're so damn happy. The fact we were so damn surprised at winning at FSU tells you all you need to know about where our program is. In years past, we'd have been pissed not to be hosting the regional and expecting to win it. Of course, in years past, we didn't do all that great of a job of winning the regionals we were expected to win either (84, 89, 83 SECT that got us sent to the Texas regional instead of hosting one ourselves), etc., but that's a different story.

 

[Todd04State]

"And yes, it has been purely chance that we haven't made it to Omaha in the last 4 years."

So, you're saying that Ole Miss was better or as good as a Texas team that won the NC, Miami, and Arizona State?

I don't buy that.

 

[msubball2525]

Sorry Patdog. I can't see it. We were surprised to beat FSU at FSU because we were playing AT FSU not because we have somehow fallen.

You can not honestly tell me that you would say that a program that has been to the postseason 4 years in a row and never made it to Omaha is a better program than one that has been to the postseason 3 out of 4 years, or whatever it is, and gone to Omaha once in those four years.

GET REAL!! I don't care about draft picks or whatever. Again, you measure a program on how many times they have been to Omaha no how many times they have ALMOST made it to Omaha.

 

[dawgoneyall]

How can I say that?

Easy. It's true.

 

[Married to a Dog]

I would take your basketball program 7 days a week and twice on Sunday. Football? I don't want either "team," but I'd be homerish and take Nutt over Croom. The point is, there is at least one Ole Miss fan that would take Stansbury and your basketball program over Coach K.

/Coack K was sarcasm.

 

[Married to a Dog]

It is not "by chance" that we haven't been to Nebraska in June. That is silly. It is because we didn't win our Super Regional.

However, when Texas came to Oxford, that was just "Ole Miss luck." I don't expect anyone other than an Ole Miss fan to understand or appreciate that, but only an Ole Miss fan could expect the team that is so hot that they are not even challenged in Nebraska to be our draw when we were viewed as worthy of a Super host team.

That is the only year, with Miami also being a slightly unlucky draw (merely because of their history and our lack thereof), that I say we were just unfortunate. Who knows what would have happened had we faced ANY of the other Super travelers that year, but I like our chances against any more than Texas.

I won't say the "O word" because an Ole Miss fan my age doesn't even know what that is other than an ESPN event.

 

[rebel law]

I think you are blinded by your time at MSU. MSU was obviously better when you were playing. I don't think that is the case anymore. Like I said ask any SEC coach who the top 3 SEC programs right now. I guarantee you everyone mentions OM. I doubt that would be the case with MSU. Hell right now LSU isn't one of the top programs in the SEC and they have won the whole thing how many times? MSU will always have the potential to be a national powerhouse but that doesn't mean that they will always be reaching that potential over a certain time period.

 

[RebelBruiser]

Quote:_________________________________________________Again, you measure a program on how many times they have been to Omaha no how many times they have ALMOST made it to Omaha._________________________________________________

So Omaha is the ONLY measure of how good a program is? That's a ridiculous, but convenient argument for you considering your trip to Omaha last year is the only thing that you've had over us in the past 5 years. Head to head, overall SEC record, regional hosting, Super regional appearances, players drafted, any of those other measures doesn't look favorably on MSU, so you say Omaha is the only measuring stick.

Louisville plays average, but not great baseball for 60 or so games of the season, but because they play 2 weeks of really good baseball, they're automatically better than a team like Vandy that played ridiculous baseball for 60+ games but had one bad weekend. Yea, that makes sense, because apparently the only measuring stick is the 1 or 2 weeks leading up to Omaha.

And yes I chalk it up to chance that we haven't been yet. If the Devil Rays beat the Yankees 2 out of 3 times, does that mean the Devil Rays are a better team?

Point being, even a really bad team can win 2 of 3 from a great team, because as your own coach says "that's baseball". Anything can happen in a short series.

So when you're facing off against other good teams, anything can happen. We got a bad draw in 2005. We overachieved all season to get to a Super in 2006 and had 2 freshmen starters get lit up by a good Miami team. And in 2007, we were just not as good as ASU. However, we could've beaten any of those teams 2 out of 3. It just didn't happen for us when we needed it to happen. After watching what Bianco is doing though, I have no doubt in my mind he'll get us to Omaha multiple times and possibly even win one some day if we're hot at the right time and get a good draw. Given the responses in this thread, I don't think most MSU fans feel the same way about Polk.

 

[patdog]

The fact we weren't mad as hell to be playing on the road at all in a regional is proof that our program isn't nearly what it once was. We used to host regionals regularly back when there were only 8 of them. Now we go into each season with the goal of MAKING a regional when there are 16 of them. We haven't hosted on in 5 years, and really in none of those years did we really think we even had a chance to host.

 

[RebelBruiser]

To be fair, last year you were in the same boat with us heading into the SEC tourney. We just went further and therefore got the host bid over you. So you were one weekend from hosting last year.

 

[Aelyn]

Quote:_________________________________________________ I don't buy that._________________________________________________

Augie Garrido did. His comment after their NC was that the two best teams in the nation played in Oxford. It was so close that it came down to the very last at bat of the third game. I absolutely believe that team was as good as Texas, and had we gotten past Texas I think we'd have won the NC.

Were we as good as Miami? Yep, I think so. Probably better. Put that series in the middle of the season and I think we win more than we lose. I don't know if it was nerves or what, but we shouldn't have lost that series.

Were we as good as Arizona State? No, I don't think so. We pretty well got manhandled in that one.

Was it bad luck? Was it choking? Who knows.

 

[SoxFan343]

We ended up with the national champs. We play anyone else that year (with the possible exceptions of Baylor and Tulane) and I think we are in.

Miami was better than us and so was ASU.

 

[Stormrider81]

Quote:_________________________________________________No way is the rebel program on the rise_________________________________________________

Good Lord, can you put your bias aside for one second and look at things objectively?

Quote:_________________________________________________You judge programs by how many times they have been to Omaha, not how many times they have gotten close in a row. Sorry Ole Miss, go to Omaha and then you can BEGIN to talk about having a good program. Until then...SHUTUP!!!!_________________________________________________

Wow, that looks like a copy/paste of Peaches' views on judging basketball coaches, and we all know how stupid that is. Much like our basketball program has some kind of a block at getting past the second round OM's baseball program has a block at getting past the Super Regional. However, the failure of each program to advance doesn't mean they aren't good programs. They've each had a lot of success and they each continue to put themselves in position to advance. Meanwhile, MSU's baseball program does not put itself in position to advance. We took care of business last year, and kudos to the team and staff for doing that, but counting on winning at a national seed's regional, having the other host team lose, and then outbidding the opponent for the SR host isn't exactly a recipe for regular trips to Omaha. It hasn't worked out for OM baseball to get to Omaha yet, and it hasn't worked out for MSU basketball to reach the Sweet 16. Both teams have had bad draws, both teams have lost to better teams and programs, and both teams have blown great opportunities. But, conventional wisdom says if they each keep putting themselves in position to advance eventually they will. The best way to get to Omaha on a regular basis is to host regionals. You won't see many teams there every year that didn't do that.

 

[Stormrider81]

That was a death sentence. OM should have beaten Miami. The Texas draw was tough. That team was not only talented, they were battle tested. They didn't get rattled. OM probably should have beaten them after winning game one, but losing to them shouldn't be some indictment of the program.

 

[SoxFan343]

We were a better team last year for sure.

We had little pitching and no depth. We were inconsistent offensively all season. Cozart carried us for a long time. We were great on defense and had a great running game that year. We got hot at a good time (late season, SEC Tourney, regionals), but didn't have the talent to beat Miami.

 

[msubball2525]

Maybe I am a little biased. I can't argue that. The rebs have a good program, they are getting better too. I just don't see how they are better than we are.

Here is my simple point, our expectations for our success has been so high for so long that we are very disappointed when we don't get to Omaha and win.

Ole Miss's expectations have not been anything until the past few years. And because of that, many people see Ole Miss's program on the rise and ours is not. Yes they are on the rise, they had to go up from where they were before Bianco. We have always been at that level and higher.

I just think that State's reputation and expectations are blinding ya'll due to Ole Miss's recent success. I don't know how to explain it other than that.