So what are people's opinions for why we don't play well against top10 teams? I believe our record in these games makes it clear that we have trouble winning these games.
Big Game Issues?
- Thread starter Alphalion75
- Start date
Well for one thing, everybody has trouble with top ten teams.
It starts with Jimmy and Joe’s and then gets a heaping helping of X and O’s on top of it. You cant compete when you have a glaring weakness against the likes of Michigan and Ohio State.
The annual weakness has been the OL so that you can’t reliably get any established running threat. Post Dotson, you now have not had a wideout that other teams must concern themselves with. What has happened with that position? For the life of me, I couldn’t understand how you didn’t establish some game plan that didnt better utilize Singleton more in space and make him a threat.
You finally got a big talent 5* QB and you’ve ruined him. How you now recruit that position given how you’ve failed with #15 is something that the coaching staff will have to figure out. Thats X and O’s.
I think it’s safe to say that I’ve never looked at the program with more doubt than now.
The annual weakness has been the OL so that you can’t reliably get any established running threat. Post Dotson, you now have not had a wideout that other teams must concern themselves with. What has happened with that position? For the life of me, I couldn’t understand how you didn’t establish some game plan that didnt better utilize Singleton more in space and make him a threat.
You finally got a big talent 5* QB and you’ve ruined him. How you now recruit that position given how you’ve failed with #15 is something that the coaching staff will have to figure out. Thats X and O’s.
I think it’s safe to say that I’ve never looked at the program with more doubt than now.
Because we are simply not good enough. Other than OSU and Michigan, the Big Ten has been comprised of consistently weak teams which gets us to 10 wins. If the Utah QB did not get hurt last year, I don’t think we would have won that game either.
Because Penn State has a politician leading the team and not a coach. I realized awhile ago that Fraud-klin is nothing but a two bit politician. He tells everyone what they want to hear in certain situations, is a good (not great) salesman, has excuses for everything, almost never delivers on his promises, etc. But his teams are never prepared for the big games and his in game decisions can be baffling at times. But nothing is ever his fault, bad outcomes are due to extraneous situations, bad luck, bad officiating, etc. that are beyond his control.
Sure, but top coaches don't, at least not as much as Franklin. I posted this in late October, haven't updated:
Okay, current top 10 coaches against other top 10 teams:
Kalen DeBoer - 100% (granted, only 2-0, but he is also 7-1 against ranked teams generally)
Brent Venables - 100% (only 1-0, also 3-1 against ranked teams generally)
Ryan Day - 75%
Nick Saban - 66%
Kirby Smart - 66%
Dan Lanning - 50% (only 2-2, also 4-4 against all ranked opponents)
Mike Norvell - 40%
Steve Sarkisian - 32%
Jim Harbaugh - 30%
James Franklin - 19%
Sure, most coaches will struggle against top 10 teams if they aren't a top 10 team theirself. But if you're a top 10 team as PSU has been/should be, then you should expect more than 19% (lower now, another loss added for UM, he dodged another with Ole Miss at 11).
It’s even worse actually. When was the last time that your gut feeling really had us beating them. Not hoping, but actually believing? When 26 was here?
And, I think his record against top 15 teams is not much better. Could be wrong, but I think after yesterday's game it is something like 6-16. What we really have here is a lower tier top 15 or 20 program. Nothing more. Some here are fine with that. As long as they enjoy it, that's OK. Personally, I'm tired of it.
Last edited:
If it were not for 26 Barkley and 11 Parsons Franklin would have been run out on a rail long ago.
Last edited:
After yesterday, PSU will not finish as a top 10 team for 2023. Ole Miss will replace them and you can add a similar stat for Ole Lane.
My question is are those numbers based on at the time rankings, or final rankings? Using at the time rankings can be very misleading.
As far as I can tell, Lanning has only beaten the same 2022 top 10 Utah team Franklin did. He went 1-2 last year and is looking at 0-2 this year unless Oregon loses and Liberty shoots up the rankings, which wouldn’t improve his record.
Give time and the teams on the lower end of the top 10 will have similar records as PSU has had as that has generally been the ceiling of PSU for quite some time.
I've been tired of it for 30 years now- but I can't do anything about it but quit- and I don't quit.
Boy, we must have been watching different Rose Bowls. Utah's starting QB likely would have kept it closer but we were clearly the better team out there. Sounds like you missed a really good PSU performance.
I’m not happy with our record against highly ranked teams either, but I have to ask: were you a PSU fan in 2003? Or between the 2011 and 2012 seasons? I had WAY more doubt at those times… for different/externally-imposed reasons in the latter instance, of course.
All well and good. Some can continue to accept where the program is and live with it. Others not. Each to his/her own. Priorities change, that's all.
It’s at the time, it would be hard to come up with end of season record, and I think that would be even more misleading, since a coach beating a top 10 team is potentially the very reason they aren’t top 10 anymore, so that shouldn’t mean that’s taken away.
Agree on the ceiling. That’s the question folks here are divided on: is a top 10-15 program that never beats top 10 teams but wins 9-10 games a year all PSU should expect and be happy with, or is the risk of being worse than that worth the chance of taking the next step up.
You forgot OC, and it showed. The 2 headed monster of assistant co-OC’s was not awe inspiring.
It's one of two things:
1. Our player are good enough to win but bad coaching and game planning.
2. Our players aren't good enough to win on top of bad coaching and game planning.
1. Our player are good enough to win but bad coaching and game planning.
2. Our players aren't good enough to win on top of bad coaching and game planning.
3. We played without 6 of our top players all game, 3 of which will be picked in the first 2 rounds of the draft, so coaching has nearly no significance in this game. It's incredible we were only down by 3 at the half, then Jacobs, Wallace and Theo sat. Carter got taken out by a cheap play and never recovered his speed. If our roster that played in Detroit was on the field yesterday, Ol Miss would have been demolished.
Thankfully we now have a playoff so these opt outs should be minimized with teams that make it.
I think there is a good chance the playoffs are still going to have opt outs. Especially for the lower seeded teams. Hopefully you are not disappointed.
I’ll answer your question. For the dark years, I thought the PSU brand would reset itself post Joe and if the TE doesn’t make that catch in Evanston to set up D Will’s TD, who knows how 2005 turns out. I can still remember the jolt that took place with King running down the sideline after D Will made the catch. They boat raced a good MN team and then had the epic game against Ohio St. But I’m not sure what happens if they lose at NW. If 2005 didn't turn out the way it did, who knows how history would have been written with Joe.
But I thought the brand was still strong given that they were all world in 94 and ranked #1 for some time in 99. So, the dark years could have been a blip that new blood could have reset.
I guess I’ll give you the sanctions period because that was uncharted waters. They could have had the death penalty and never recovered. I’ll have to admit that.
But right now, I am not sure how the brand plays. They seem to have good recruiting but the results don’t follow. I don’t expect them to beat Ohio St and Michigan and the new western blood makes their conference standing even more suspect. Their coach has not instilled confidence in his gameday execution, they can’t develop a QB, their Offensive coordinators are a revolving door, and I am not sure what happens as us old timers start to fall off. Will the program generate the same level of support and loyalty when the grads from the 60’s-80’s fade away?
Maybe I do have it completely wrong, but I’m not sure that Penn St is the sleeping giant how many of us described it. I cant say I view Penn St as trending upwards but I’ll be happy to be proven wrong.
And those points are certainly meaningful. Ole Miss only had 1 opt out I’m aware of. I think everyone would be much more forgiving and understanding of that if it weren’t for Franklin’s lengthy track record in these types of games even when full strength.
If not in Year 1, certainly moving forward.
The "appeal" for those teams seeded 5-12 (especially for those seeded 9-12) will be far less rosy than the current system (from the players' perspective - not the fans).
I would expect the "opt outs" to increase, rather than decrease.
C’mon. Coaching still matters. You have to find ways to mitigate the loss of opt outs. You have to maybe not try to go trick play for trick play with one of the best offensive coaches in the country. Maybe find a way to jam or disrupt their WR and TE who are killing you. Maybe feed the ball more to your RB who is averaging a first down every two carries. Maybe pull your starting QB to see if the backup can provide a spark…..
Why was CJF holding charts/cards ? What was he holding? He wasn't calling plays was he?
it was a repeat of the bowl in Tampa against Arkansas in 2021. Difference is we all know they were going to be out, and that turned me off on attending in 2021. In this case, we got a surprise.
I was going to attend the Peach Bowl, but family situation changed plans. Where I had a problem is that Franklin implied they were going to play and there was a "plan". He even dodged the question about Dixon who had been on social media reporting that he was at a training facility.
Coaching does matter....but shouldn't the coaches know by game 6 those players who might declare and possibly opt-out? We knew Olu, Chop, and Kalen would be high draft picks. Maybe the staff needs to be proactive and get 2nd string more reps in game. Poor Cam Miller was abused...maybe with more PT he would have played better. Your comment asking why we didn't chip/disrupt WR at th LOS to disrupt timing is spot on.
If you take 6 Ol Miss top starters off the team before this game, we boat race them and the talk here would be we won but they had so many opt outs. I'm not denying coaching can make up for a missing player or 3, but come on. Look what happened to tOSU and Day is supposed to be a great coach.
It seems like King may have been set to play and then changed his mind. I think Dixon was a surprise. They must have worked something out with Isaac, Jacobs, and Johnson who played but only the first series or so in the second half. On the one hand, the NFL is more important to these guys than winning and really, the result doesn’t mean much (Franklin still gets his bonus win or lose). On the other, losing sucks, and having to coach in this scenario is a nightmare (not to mention temporary/new playcallers at DC and OC). So, unenviable job, but Franklin has to figure this out. I think if at the beginning of December Franklin said ‘Look - we’re gonna be without Olu, King, Dixon, and Robinson, and Johnson, Isaac, and Jacobs are only going to play the first half,’ fans would have (hopefully) checked expectations. I still don’t get making in game adjustments when obvious and/or not sticking with what works, but that’s our coach.
tOSU was without starting QB and best player in college football, which is nearly their whole offense. I get why they sucked (Day is a talent horder, no more, no less). Defensive issues hurt us but we still did f*ck all on offense. T Frank said it best - you can’t start trying to win a game in the 4th quarter.
I don’t think that’s new. I think he frequently has them. I remember them being attached to his belt loop?
Cephus was there too; seems like a healthy scratch/doghouse issue for him.
Sounds like we need a new OC.
I'm out man, heading to my friends house who hates Franklin and Tomlin. He's a fellow alum and a Steeler fan. I'm in for a night! Happy New Year! 
Last edited:
Get unlimited access today.