Bulldog Backer with an informative post...

[dawgstudent]

on BulldawgJunction...

I just got back from Little Dooey's, and the radio show that Gene Swindoll puts on. Phil Cunningham was the guest, and I sat next to him. He had some really interesting things to say:

First thing out of his mouth was asking Gene, "Did you read Shane Power's article on BullDawgJunction?" Shane, if you are reading this, Phil Cunningham thought it was a "great article." He said Shane was exactly right in his assessment of why we have had the transfer problems. He expanded on it somewhat, by saying we played freshmen in 2005/2006 who under normal circumstances wouldn't have been on the floor, and pointed out the Delks. He said Timmy Bowers and Derrick Zimmerman rarely played as true freshmen, yet Rick thinks Timmy Bowers is the best player he has ever coached. By the way, Gene hadn't read your article.

I'll try to be discrete, but I asked, off microphone, if he made out the lineup, what would his starting five look like next season. Here is what he had to say, combined with both his radio and off microphone comments: First, he expects Jamont will be a 2nd round draft choice, with potential to work his way up to a lower level 1st round in workouts. He therefore expects Jamont to probably enter the draft. Jamont hasn't said one way or the other and the coaching staff doesn't try to persuade players one way or the other. He therefore answered the question assuming Jamont won't be here.

1PG: Dee Bost: He says Dee could be an important difference maker. He said "we never know, he could fall on his face when he gets here, but based on what we know, we think he will be an impact player." He said he is much quicker than Jamont, is unselfish, can drive or pull up and plays good defense. He said he led Hargrave to an undefeated season playing the toughest competition in the country. He said "off microphone " that Roy Williams wanted him, but because Roy Williams "does not recruit committed players, unlike some in our league," he urged Dee to live up to his commitment and come here. He wouldn't comment about any players who hadn't signed and tempered what he had to say with that.

2SG: Barry Stewart: He thinks Barry has a "chance" to be an All SEC type guard next season. He needs to get bigger and stronger, but will be one of keys. He says Barry is an excellent defensive player and eventually can be on par with Timmy Bowers. He pointed out that he will be a better defender as a 2. He locked down Oregon's tiny guard in the second half, and that was a key to beating Oregon. He says Barry will be a much better shooter next year as a 2.

3SF: Ravern Johnson: He said Rave came out of tiny Lyon, Mississippi, where he was virtually the only offensive option on a small school team. He was essentially their only offensive option and felt he had to score when the ball was in his hands. When he got to State, he continued that mindset until later in the season, when he started to play more within the team concept. He learned that he could also score by blowing by defenders and dunking. He also improved his defense. Next season they are moving the 3 point line back a foot. He says Rave and Barry have the ability to shoot from the longer range. He anticipates that a lot of teams will use more zone defenses due to that change.

4PF: Brian Johnson: He says Brian plays very, very smart basketball, blocks out, and does all the fundamental things you need. He says he needs to get his legs into better shape. He says he is more highly skilled than Charles, but that Charles is just a great athlete and depended on his athleticism. Brian is a team leader and cheerleader. He expects Brian to be much bigger contributor next season.

5C/F: Jarvis Varnado: He says Jarvis has the skills, but needs to be more aggressive offensively. He thinks Jarvis will be an All SEC player. He says we need him to average 15 ppg and 10 rebounds. He would like to see Jarvis put on 20-25 pounds by next fall. He says he needs to eat better to do that.

Comments about others:

Romero Osby is a died in the wool Bulldog, who will take any role that the team needs him to take, because winning Championships is most important to him. He is a very flexible big man, who can play several positions, from the 3 to 5. He is an excellent passer, handles the ball really well, and can shoot out to the 3. He has virtually grown up on our campus playing in the Sanderson Center. He is very smart, much more mature than most incoming freshmen, and will eventually be a leader on this team. He has the frame to carry 20 more pounds. He thinks he may eventually play the 3 for us down the road.

Riley Benock: The reason Riley lost some PT later in the season, was because he needed to do what he does best and that is shoot the ball, but became shy about doing so. He needs to lose his passivity and let the ball go more. He is a better athlete than most give him credit for, and plays excellent fundamental basketball. He has serious hops, but needs to improve his lateral movement on defense.

Elgin Bailey: Phil told us off camera, "If you are in a dark alley, you want Elgin Bailey there with you." He is an incredibly hard worker, and is strong as a Bull, and will run through walls if you ask him. He has quick feet, but not great hops. He is an incredibly hard worker in practice. He brings it all the time. He has to play position defense rather than depend on leaping, because he isn't a natural athlete. He will initially back Jarvis, but will also get time at the 4.

Kodi Augustus: Kodi Augustus: He had high praise for Kodi. He says he is an excellent offensive player, but needs to get quicker and stronger to play good defense. He says Kodi understood exactly where the coaches were coming from and worked very hard on strength and conditioning. He thinks Kodi will eventually be a very good player for us and has shown the understanding and maturity to know what he has to do to get there.

He said he couldn't say anything about Ben and didn't have time to address Phil.

Interesting side notes:

1. He said the decision to move the 3pt line back a foot would have an impact on the college game. They anticipate teams playing more zone defense, and that we would also play some more zone depending on the opponent.

2. He said that the basketball team now has the "all you can eat" semester cafeteria tickets, instead of the cash allowance. Some of the players don't have the best eating habits, and the hope is that they will gain some weight on cafeteria food. I am guessing Barry, Jarvis, and Ravern.

3. Part of his comments about Shane's article included that normally, Rick doesn't play freshmen all that much. Derrick Zimmerman and Timmy Bowers rarely got into games as freshmen. When we lost 6 seniors after the 2004/2005 season, we were forced to play freshmen who wouldn't otherwise have been out there. That gave both them and their parents false expectations. For example, he said Reggie and Richard wouldn't have played much had things been "normal." That is one reason for some transfers. They saw their minutes as freshmen an "entitlement."

4. He thinks the SEC will be more balanced next season, and that we should be competing again for the SEC West.

5. As always, no one plays for Mississippi State unless they can defend.

 

[dawgstudent]

on BulldawgJunction...

I just got back from Little Dooey's, and the radio show that Gene Swindoll puts on. Phil Cunningham was the guest, and I sat next to him. He had some really interesting things to say:

First thing out of his mouth was asking Gene, "Did you read Shane Power's article on BullDawgJunction?" Shane, if you are reading this, Phil Cunningham thought it was a "great article." He said Shane was exactly right in his assessment of why we have had the transfer problems. He expanded on it somewhat, by saying we played freshmen in 2005/2006 who under normal circumstances wouldn't have been on the floor, and pointed out the Delks. He said Timmy Bowers and Derrick Zimmerman rarely played as true freshmen, yet Rick thinks Timmy Bowers is the best player he has ever coached. By the way, Gene hadn't read your article.

I'll try to be discrete, but I asked, off microphone, if he made out the lineup, what would his starting five look like next season. Here is what he had to say, combined with both his radio and off microphone comments: First, he expects Jamont will be a 2nd round draft choice, with potential to work his way up to a lower level 1st round in workouts. He therefore expects Jamont to probably enter the draft. Jamont hasn't said one way or the other and the coaching staff doesn't try to persuade players one way or the other. He therefore answered the question assuming Jamont won't be here.

1PG: Dee Bost: He says Dee could be an important difference maker. He said "we never know, he could fall on his face when he gets here, but based on what we know, we think he will be an impact player." He said he is much quicker than Jamont, is unselfish, can drive or pull up and plays good defense. He said he led Hargrave to an undefeated season playing the toughest competition in the country. He said "off microphone " that Roy Williams wanted him, but because Roy Williams "does not recruit committed players, unlike some in our league," he urged Dee to live up to his commitment and come here. He wouldn't comment about any players who hadn't signed and tempered what he had to say with that.

2SG: Barry Stewart: He thinks Barry has a "chance" to be an All SEC type guard next season. He needs to get bigger and stronger, but will be one of keys. He says Barry is an excellent defensive player and eventually can be on par with Timmy Bowers. He pointed out that he will be a better defender as a 2. He locked down Oregon's tiny guard in the second half, and that was a key to beating Oregon. He says Barry will be a much better shooter next year as a 2.

3SF: Ravern Johnson: He said Rave came out of tiny Lyon, Mississippi, where he was virtually the only offensive option on a small school team. He was essentially their only offensive option and felt he had to score when the ball was in his hands. When he got to State, he continued that mindset until later in the season, when he started to play more within the team concept. He learned that he could also score by blowing by defenders and dunking. He also improved his defense. Next season they are moving the 3 point line back a foot. He says Rave and Barry have the ability to shoot from the longer range. He anticipates that a lot of teams will use more zone defenses due to that change.

4PF: Brian Johnson: He says Brian plays very, very smart basketball, blocks out, and does all the fundamental things you need. He says he needs to get his legs into better shape. He says he is more highly skilled than Charles, but that Charles is just a great athlete and depended on his athleticism. Brian is a team leader and cheerleader. He expects Brian to be much bigger contributor next season.

5C/F: Jarvis Varnado: He says Jarvis has the skills, but needs to be more aggressive offensively. He thinks Jarvis will be an All SEC player. He says we need him to average 15 ppg and 10 rebounds. He would like to see Jarvis put on 20-25 pounds by next fall. He says he needs to eat better to do that.

Comments about others:

Romero Osby is a died in the wool Bulldog, who will take any role that the team needs him to take, because winning Championships is most important to him. He is a very flexible big man, who can play several positions, from the 3 to 5. He is an excellent passer, handles the ball really well, and can shoot out to the 3. He has virtually grown up on our campus playing in the Sanderson Center. He is very smart, much more mature than most incoming freshmen, and will eventually be a leader on this team. He has the frame to carry 20 more pounds. He thinks he may eventually play the 3 for us down the road.

Riley Benock: The reason Riley lost some PT later in the season, was because he needed to do what he does best and that is shoot the ball, but became shy about doing so. He needs to lose his passivity and let the ball go more. He is a better athlete than most give him credit for, and plays excellent fundamental basketball. He has serious hops, but needs to improve his lateral movement on defense.

Elgin Bailey: Phil told us off camera, "If you are in a dark alley, you want Elgin Bailey there with you." He is an incredibly hard worker, and is strong as a Bull, and will run through walls if you ask him. He has quick feet, but not great hops. He is an incredibly hard worker in practice. He brings it all the time. He has to play position defense rather than depend on leaping, because he isn't a natural athlete. He will initially back Jarvis, but will also get time at the 4.

Kodi Augustus: Kodi Augustus: He had high praise for Kodi. He says he is an excellent offensive player, but needs to get quicker and stronger to play good defense. He says Kodi understood exactly where the coaches were coming from and worked very hard on strength and conditioning. He thinks Kodi will eventually be a very good player for us and has shown the understanding and maturity to know what he has to do to get there.

He said he couldn't say anything about Ben and didn't have time to address Phil.

Interesting side notes:

1. He said the decision to move the 3pt line back a foot would have an impact on the college game. They anticipate teams playing more zone defense, and that we would also play some more zone depending on the opponent.

2. He said that the basketball team now has the "all you can eat" semester cafeteria tickets, instead of the cash allowance. Some of the players don't have the best eating habits, and the hope is that they will gain some weight on cafeteria food. I am guessing Barry, Jarvis, and Ravern.

3. Part of his comments about Shane's article included that normally, Rick doesn't play freshmen all that much. Derrick Zimmerman and Timmy Bowers rarely got into games as freshmen. When we lost 6 seniors after the 2004/2005 season, we were forced to play freshmen who wouldn't otherwise have been out there. That gave both them and their parents false expectations. For example, he said Reggie and Richard wouldn't have played much had things been "normal." That is one reason for some transfers. They saw their minutes as freshmen an "entitlement."

4. He thinks the SEC will be more balanced next season, and that we should be competing again for the SEC West.

5. As always, no one plays for Mississippi State unless they can defend.

 

[dawgstudent]

on BulldawgJunction...

I just got back from Little Dooey's, and the radio show that Gene Swindoll puts on. Phil Cunningham was the guest, and I sat next to him. He had some really interesting things to say:

First thing out of his mouth was asking Gene, "Did you read Shane Power's article on BullDawgJunction?" Shane, if you are reading this, Phil Cunningham thought it was a "great article." He said Shane was exactly right in his assessment of why we have had the transfer problems. He expanded on it somewhat, by saying we played freshmen in 2005/2006 who under normal circumstances wouldn't have been on the floor, and pointed out the Delks. He said Timmy Bowers and Derrick Zimmerman rarely played as true freshmen, yet Rick thinks Timmy Bowers is the best player he has ever coached. By the way, Gene hadn't read your article.

I'll try to be discrete, but I asked, off microphone, if he made out the lineup, what would his starting five look like next season. Here is what he had to say, combined with both his radio and off microphone comments: First, he expects Jamont will be a 2nd round draft choice, with potential to work his way up to a lower level 1st round in workouts. He therefore expects Jamont to probably enter the draft. Jamont hasn't said one way or the other and the coaching staff doesn't try to persuade players one way or the other. He therefore answered the question assuming Jamont won't be here.

1PG: Dee Bost: He says Dee could be an important difference maker. He said "we never know, he could fall on his face when he gets here, but based on what we know, we think he will be an impact player." He said he is much quicker than Jamont, is unselfish, can drive or pull up and plays good defense. He said he led Hargrave to an undefeated season playing the toughest competition in the country. He said "off microphone " that Roy Williams wanted him, but because Roy Williams "does not recruit committed players, unlike some in our league," he urged Dee to live up to his commitment and come here. He wouldn't comment about any players who hadn't signed and tempered what he had to say with that.

2SG: Barry Stewart: He thinks Barry has a "chance" to be an All SEC type guard next season. He needs to get bigger and stronger, but will be one of keys. He says Barry is an excellent defensive player and eventually can be on par with Timmy Bowers. He pointed out that he will be a better defender as a 2. He locked down Oregon's tiny guard in the second half, and that was a key to beating Oregon. He says Barry will be a much better shooter next year as a 2.

3SF: Ravern Johnson: He said Rave came out of tiny Lyon, Mississippi, where he was virtually the only offensive option on a small school team. He was essentially their only offensive option and felt he had to score when the ball was in his hands. When he got to State, he continued that mindset until later in the season, when he started to play more within the team concept. He learned that he could also score by blowing by defenders and dunking. He also improved his defense. Next season they are moving the 3 point line back a foot. He says Rave and Barry have the ability to shoot from the longer range. He anticipates that a lot of teams will use more zone defenses due to that change.

4PF: Brian Johnson: He says Brian plays very, very smart basketball, blocks out, and does all the fundamental things you need. He says he needs to get his legs into better shape. He says he is more highly skilled than Charles, but that Charles is just a great athlete and depended on his athleticism. Brian is a team leader and cheerleader. He expects Brian to be much bigger contributor next season.

5C/F: Jarvis Varnado: He says Jarvis has the skills, but needs to be more aggressive offensively. He thinks Jarvis will be an All SEC player. He says we need him to average 15 ppg and 10 rebounds. He would like to see Jarvis put on 20-25 pounds by next fall. He says he needs to eat better to do that.

Comments about others:

Romero Osby is a died in the wool Bulldog, who will take any role that the team needs him to take, because winning Championships is most important to him. He is a very flexible big man, who can play several positions, from the 3 to 5. He is an excellent passer, handles the ball really well, and can shoot out to the 3. He has virtually grown up on our campus playing in the Sanderson Center. He is very smart, much more mature than most incoming freshmen, and will eventually be a leader on this team. He has the frame to carry 20 more pounds. He thinks he may eventually play the 3 for us down the road.

Riley Benock: The reason Riley lost some PT later in the season, was because he needed to do what he does best and that is shoot the ball, but became shy about doing so. He needs to lose his passivity and let the ball go more. He is a better athlete than most give him credit for, and plays excellent fundamental basketball. He has serious hops, but needs to improve his lateral movement on defense.

Elgin Bailey: Phil told us off camera, "If you are in a dark alley, you want Elgin Bailey there with you." He is an incredibly hard worker, and is strong as a Bull, and will run through walls if you ask him. He has quick feet, but not great hops. He is an incredibly hard worker in practice. He brings it all the time. He has to play position defense rather than depend on leaping, because he isn't a natural athlete. He will initially back Jarvis, but will also get time at the 4.

Kodi Augustus: Kodi Augustus: He had high praise for Kodi. He says he is an excellent offensive player, but needs to get quicker and stronger to play good defense. He says Kodi understood exactly where the coaches were coming from and worked very hard on strength and conditioning. He thinks Kodi will eventually be a very good player for us and has shown the understanding and maturity to know what he has to do to get there.

He said he couldn't say anything about Ben and didn't have time to address Phil.

Interesting side notes:

1. He said the decision to move the 3pt line back a foot would have an impact on the college game. They anticipate teams playing more zone defense, and that we would also play some more zone depending on the opponent.

2. He said that the basketball team now has the "all you can eat" semester cafeteria tickets, instead of the cash allowance. Some of the players don't have the best eating habits, and the hope is that they will gain some weight on cafeteria food. I am guessing Barry, Jarvis, and Ravern.

3. Part of his comments about Shane's article included that normally, Rick doesn't play freshmen all that much. Derrick Zimmerman and Timmy Bowers rarely got into games as freshmen. When we lost 6 seniors after the 2004/2005 season, we were forced to play freshmen who wouldn't otherwise have been out there. That gave both them and their parents false expectations. For example, he said Reggie and Richard wouldn't have played much had things been "normal." That is one reason for some transfers. They saw their minutes as freshmen an "entitlement."

4. He thinks the SEC will be more balanced next season, and that we should be competing again for the SEC West.

5. As always, no one plays for Mississippi State unless they can defend.

 

[saddawg]

First thing out of his mouth was asking Gene, "Did you read Shane Power's article on BullDawgJunction?" Shane, if you are reading this, Phil Cunningham thought it was a "great article." He said Shane was exactly right in his assessment of why we have had the transfer problems. He expanded on it somewhat, by saying we played freshmen in 2005/2006 who under normal circumstances wouldn't have been on the floor, and pointed out the Delks. He said Timmy Bowers and Derrick Zimmerman rarely played as true freshmen, yet Rick thinks Timmy Bowers is the best player he has ever coached. By the way, Gene hadn't read your article.

Wonder what the look on of Porn Fro's face was when he heard that.

 

[DerHntr]

just sayin.</p>

 

[JR]

1.

yet Rick thinks Timmy Bowers is the best player he has ever coached

As opposed to Concensus All American, SEC POY Lawrence Roberts? or Jamont Gordon? (Yes even though I dislike HOW Gordon plays, he is still CLEARLY better than Bowers)
At this point you should stop reading the article, if Backer and Cunningham are going to start out like that...but in case you didnt stop reading, the hit keep comming

There is other pscho babble in there about the problems with starting freshmen and the damage it does to them giving them a feeling of "entitlement".....but of course he goes on to state that Dee Bost will start next year as a ...wait for it...freshman...Never mind that schools around the country start freshmen, and it doesnt cause problems

 

[dawgstudent]

As a college player and what he brought to the team, you have a case for Timmy Bowers being the best player. I don't necessarily disagree with that statement. He was a great defender and could score off the dribble and was a decent 3 pt shooter. He had a great all around game in college.

 

[8dog]

Bowers is certainly the best player that Stans has had as a head coach.

I don't even think that Roberts was better offensively than Rhodes.

 

[saddawg]

Richard Williams said Bowers is the most talented guy State has had since Dontae Jones.

 

[ram124]

Bowers might not have been as highly recruited as Jamont, Mario, Rhodes, or got the accolades that Lawrence Roberts received, but Timmy did everything well. He defended, handled the ball, shot the 3, and had great leaping ability (Z to Timmy for an oop was about as good as it gets). Plus, you throw in the fact that he could do these things in clutch situations and rarely made dumb plays (excluding the turnover in the SEC tourney against Vandy..JUST TAKE IT UP TIMMY!). Best all around player under Stans...no doubt.

 

[Stormrider81]

I wouldn't say Bowers is the best player we've had under Stansbury. However, I think it's perfectly fair for Rick to say that Timmy was the best player he has ever coached. You have to look deeper into this. Perhaps he is saying that he enjoyed coaching Bowers more than any other player, which I can certainly see. Perhaps he is alluding to the fact that he got to coach Bowers for 4-5 years and watch him slowly mature into a fantastic senior. Maybe he liked the total package of Bowers better than anyone else he's had. Whatever his criteria was for making that statement, there's nothing wrong with him saying "so and so is the best player I've ever coached." I, you, and everyone else may disagree with him, but I respect his opinion as the actual person doing the coaching.</p>

 

[JacksonDevilDog]

backer also called Twanny Beckham, "tranny". It made me a little queezy.

 

[futaba.79]

At this point you should stop reading the article,

 

[ShrubDog]

Thanks for the information. We will win the West again.....

I like what he said about Elgin 'Hitman' Bailey.

 

[futaba.79]

You have to look deeper into this. Perhaps he is saying that he enjoyed coaching Bowers more than any other player, which I can certainly see.

Timmy did a lot more than just play good ball for us. He was a leader, both on and off the court, and that is something we've missed ever since.

 

[JR]

Delusional<a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/delusional">
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/delusional</a>

<span class="labset"><span class="ital-inline">Psychiatry</span>.</span> a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact:

Consensus
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/consensus

general agreement or concord; harmony.

All American
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/All%20American
selected as the best in the United States, as in a sport

Lawrence Roberts=Consensus All American>Timmy Bowers

 

[Todd4State]

Classic Backer. Usually when he makes posts like that, it means that the end is near for whatever team.

 

[8dog]

on some crazy stuff sometimes.

I don't think anyone that watches MSU basketball as much as the people on this board should be told by those who watch almost no msu basketball who is better than who in MSU lore. Essentially, you are letting rick cleveland's from other states dictate your opinion as opposed to an eyeball test.

 

[JR]

and bannination.
I rely too much on objective information like dictionarys and unbiased observers who dont really have an axe to grind.

Crazy stuff indeed.

However I will concede that every once in a while the majority IS wrong.

However I dont think they are on this one, and neither do I think that the are wrong in playing freshmen, nor do I think that the majority is wrong in having an offense that is more sophisticated than finding your best player and running the ball through him.
But then again Rick has been to the NCAA 5 times and I havent, so its working for him anyway.

 

[8dog]

next time I want to know who is the better player, I'll just go ask Rick Cleveland. Hysterical.

Have you looked at this year's ap all american team? DJ Augustine is first team. Derrick Rose is 3rd team. Is there really anyone out there that thinks DJ Augustine is a better player than Derrick Rose. Other than you of course b/c that's what Kyle Veazey told you.

 

[Temple of the Dawg]

There is other pscho babble in there about the problems with starting freshmen and the damage it does to them giving them a feeling of "entitlement".....but of course he goes on to state that Dee Bost will start next year as a ...wait for it...freshman...Never mind that schools around the country start freshmen, and it doesnt cause problems

1. The context of the article and the situation was that we had 3 guys that started and/or played a lot of minutes 3 seasons ago as true freshmen when they would not have normally if we had not been in the situation we were in. Most of us know that R & R Delksisters would not have started as true freshman on probably any other team since Williams or Stans have been here.

As a result, these guys felt like they were entitled to keep playing as many minutes &/or starting this year over Hans & Stewart even though Hans & Stewart outplayed them for most of the 06-07 season. This is the sense of entitlement the article is referring to. They felt like they should start/play more simply because of seniority, not because they had earned it. Under normal circumstances, R & R Delksisters probably would not have played any significant minutes in 05-06.

2. Your comparison to other freshmen around the country is invalid. Rarely do teams have 3 FR play as much as we did in 05-06. Most of the time, there is only one, maybe two freshmen per team that come in & start on a team & those are usually the McDonalds AA types, which the Delks were not.

3. Dee Bost will be the ONLY freshmen to come in & start next season. Again, this is more out of necessity (assuming Jamont leaves) than anything else. We will live & die by him next season as he learns the college game.

 

[gtowndawg]

until I read your post. Because your right. I remember those "backer" post during Jackie's last run....oh boy.

 

[JR]

this board for suggesting Gordon WASNT the best PG in the nation, and you are deriding others for selecting anyone other than Rose.

But yeah I agree that Rose is better than Augustine.

However as someone once said "my calculator is kind of broken" on how YOU pointing out to ME that Rose is the best PG in the country proves that somehow what I rely on for basketball information is foolish.

 

[Ivehadbetter]

One could argue that different players would have been Consensus AAs had they come through in different years. The AA honor is given in comparison to players from that year alone. So, perhaps there could have been a shortage of good PFs or Cs the years Lawrence came through and the SGs could have been stacked the years Timmy came through. I'm not saying either situation was the case, but your method of comparing players from different years in college basketball cannot be supported by an All American designation... atleast not in my mind.

 

[8dog]

However as someone once said "my calculator is kind of broken" on how YOU pointing out to ME that Rose is the best PG in the country proves that somehow what I rely on for basketball information is foolish.

I think that's pretty obvious if you follow the thread. You rely on postseason awards as some sort of "evidence". Clearly, they aren't the be all, end all. You might want to get a TI-85 though.

And just to note, your obnoxious attention-desperate posts about Gordon are wholly irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[JR]

dont assert that was the case, it could have been.
However another argument is that Bowers and Roberts played on the same team, and Roberts was SEC POY and Timmy wasnt.
Wouldnt that be definattive?
Because otherwise we are stuck with everyone has an opinion and Rick sees them in practice every day.
Which is a little to politically correct for me. It kind of smacks of tee ball where no one keeps score and everyone is a winner.
Sure the best team doesnt always win, but they won.
Maybe Roberts wasnt the best player but he certainly has the hardware to make the argument.

 

[Ivehadbetter]

nm.</p>

 

[dawgstudent]

anyone say that Gordon was the best PG in the nation. People said he was one of the best and for what he did for the team this year, there is no denying it.

 

[OEMDawg]

That is a lot of wooly info to process in one post. It all sounds good but I'm not buying all that about Brian Johnson. I hope we see a big improvement out of him next year but the guy missed a lot of easy layups down the stretch so I just can't buy that he's got great footwork and more talent than Chuck.

 

[JR]

The HD6 plus several other on this board had like a two page thread arguing with me on the subject.
One of my arguments was that wouldnt even be drafted very high if at all while other PG would be drafted ahead of him. Then the argument became that NBA draft status didnt have anything to do with whether someone was a good college player.

Then there was the "Name some point guard that is better" challenge string...actually I had some support on that one from some like minded independent posters.

That was when the whole "Ban anyone that replies to JR" thing happened.
I cant tell whether you are being disengenous, didnt read the boards during that time, or just have forgotten.

 

[dawgstudent]

Why do I do this??....

Once again, he is ONE of the top point guards in the nation. No one said he is the top PG in the nation. Big difference to me and if I may quote you in another thread, "he has the hardware to prove it".

 

[fishwater99]

JR

I say the same things about J-Money...
Buy as some say on here, he walks on water and is the best think since sliced bread.

Jamont is not a true point guard, but he plays the position for us b/c he thought that is the only way he could get drafted in the NBA.
Jamont will never play point in the NBA, if he ever gets a chance to even play there...

 

[dogfan96]

but I would still argue that Bowers is the 2nd best player I've ever seen in a Mississippi State uniform (behind Dontae Jones).. now I've only been following MSU basketball since the mid 80s so I didn't see Jeff Malone but I know he was a good shooter in the pros.
And for anybody who thinks Bowers being better than Jamont is ludicrous, answer this: if we had a game to win tomorrow, on the road or at a neutral site, which one of those guys would you want? It's not even a hard decision for me.</p>

 

[Stormrider81]

What axe to I have to grind here? Where is my bias coming from? I started a thread a week or so ago where I argued that Jamont is the best player we've had since Donta Jones. If I had an axe to grind or was bias in anything I would be agreeing with you.

I think it's perfectly ok for a coach to say "so and so was the best player I coached." After all, that person actually did the coaching. That person actually knows what went on at practice, in the locker room at halftime of a losing effort, during timeouts when the team needed inspiration. My opinion of Jamont is just that, an opinion formed by watching us play. Stansbury opinion is highly biased, but his opinion is also based on being a complete insider. If he preferred coaching Bowers to any other player, well I won't argue with him there.

 

[MadDawg.sixpack]

Jamont is not a true point guard, but he plays the position for us b/c he thought that is the only way he could get drafted in the NBA.

What a crock of horseshit. You make it sound like Stans wanted Jamont to play SF or something, and Jamont told Stans to eat **** because he was playing point - no matter what Stans wanted.

That's some delusional thinking based on a disdain for Gordon. Get over it already. He's gone now so you can pick another MSU All-American to hate now.

 

[Porkchop.sixpack]

nfm.

 

[Stormrider81]

and add nothing to this board.

 

[Porkchop.sixpack]

there are a lot of ways someone can justify their opinion about which player is better: awards, stats, coach's opinion, etc. And to just think that one way is better than another is what fleshes out the argument. But, to believe that there is only way to justify that opinion is a little narrow minded. You seem to be simply acknowleging that the coach might have a different criteria for his opinion.

 

[Temple of the Dawg]

Buy as some say on here, he walks on water and is the best think since sliced bread.

Never seen anyone here come anywhere close to making an assertion evenly remotely in the vacinity of this.

Jamont is not a true point guard, but he plays the position for us b/c he thought that is the only way he could get drafted in the NBA.
Jamont will never play point in the NBA, if he ever gets a chance to even play there...

For the life of me, I can't figure out how you are too stupid to understand this. Really good to great college PG does not have to equal being drafted or playing professionally. There are 330+ Div 1 basketball teams. There are 30 something NBA teams. Do the math. Secondly, compared to the numbers put up by some of the top "true" PGs this season that all the NBA scouts are drooling over, Gordon was pretty comparable.

Gordon: 17.2 P, 6.6 R, 4.9 A
Downey: 18.4 P, 3.2 R, 5.4 A
Rose: 14.9 P, 4.5 R, 4.7 A
Augustin: 19.2 P, 2.9 R, 5.8 A
Collison: 14.5 P, 2.6 R, 3.8 A

I'm sure there are others, but this was a quick list off the top of my head. Gordon is right in the middle in pts/game, leads all in rebounding, and is right in the middle in assists. What kills him is he turns it over too much & he is too inconsistent outside the arc. Despite that, he is a really good PG at the <font color="#FF0033">COLLEGE</font> level, regardless of whether or not he makes it in the NBA.

 

[fishwater99]

MadDawg wrote: _________________________________________________ Jamont is not a true point guard, but he plays the position for us b/c he thought that is the only way he could get drafted in the NBA.

What a crock of horseshit. You make it sound like Stans wanted Jamont to play SF or something, and Jamont told Stans to eat **** because he was playing point - no matter what Stans wanted.

That's some delusional thinking based on a disdain for Gordon. Get over it already. He's gone now so you can pick another MSU All-American to hate now.

I am pretty sure if we had a point guard Jamont would have played small forward.
Well how do you know that conversation did not happen between Stans and J-Money?
If we bought Jamont, as some say, then it happened.
J-Money would have all the leverage he needed..

How do you know Jamont is gone?
He is back in school now, so I think he comes back next year, I sure hope he does...
I did not know that Jamont was an All-American.(I don't count Rivals third team)
Show me where he was an AP All-American.

</p>