Can someone remind me who said the Braves should keep Lowe and get rid of Jurrjens?

[mstatefan88]

Can someone remind me who said the Braves should keep Lowe and get rid of Jurrjens?

This was discussed in a thread about a month ago, and I don't know who said it, but someone said the Braves should keep Lowe and get rid of Jurrjens because he has some injuries and because of his agent. Jurrjens has 9 starts this year, all of which he has goneat least 6innings and given up 2 runs or less. Heleads the majors with a1.51 ERA, and is tied for the most wins in the majors with 2 less starts than everyone he is tied with.

I think I would take my chances withJair being slightly more injury prone and his agent being Boras thanseeing if we could keep Lowe for one more year and dump Jurrjens. He isthe staff ace right now and the Braves would be stupid not to doeverything they can to give him a new contract.

 

[mstatefan88]

Can someone remind me who said the Braves should keep Lowe and get rid of Jurrjens?

This was discussed in a thread about a month ago, and I don't know who said it, but someone said the Braves should keep Lowe and get rid of Jurrjens because he has some injuries and because of his agent. Jurrjens has 9 starts this year, all of which he has goneat least 6innings and given up 2 runs or less. Heleads the majors with a1.51 ERA, and is tied for the most wins in the majors with 2 less starts than everyone he is tied with.

I think I would take my chances withJair being slightly more injury prone and his agent being Boras thanseeing if we could keep Lowe for one more year and dump Jurrjens. He isthe staff ace right now and the Braves would be stupid not to doeverything they can to give him a new contract.

 

[jcdawgman18]

Can someone remind me who said the Braves should keep Lowe and get rid of Jurrjens?

 

[SchruteDog]

Can someone remind me who said the Braves should keep Lowe and get rid of Jurrjens?

IF the Braves were to trade a starting pitcher for a bat, it would be Jair because they could demand something in return for him. Lowe is pretty much unmoveable because the Braves can't afford to eat his contract and nobody would be willing to take it on.<div>
</div><div>Fortunately, Frank Wren is a dumbass and apparently doesn't believe the Braves have needed a 30 homer outfielder this decade. Hopefully, his decision to give a 31 year old career .250 hitting second baseman a 5 year contract will be enough to get him fired. I'm sure he'll make the usual trade for a nobody middle reliever and a backup to the backups Mather, Conrad, and Hinske and then deem the Braves ready for the stretch run.</div>

 

[MSUArrowCS]

Can someone remind me who said the Braves should keep Lowe and get rid of Jurrjens?

is that you'll actually get something in return. Derek Lowe will bring next to nothing and would be nothing more than getting his $15M off the books. That would be a dump. Trading JJ would actually bring something decent in return.

It's true that JJ is going to be *very* difficult to re-sign, and at this point, Boras probably won't even entertain a long-term deal the isn't ludicrous. While that alone might not be enough reason to trade him, that plus the fact that he could land you an everyday player plus prospects in a trade at least makes it a possibility.

Whether they trade either of them, it has nothing to do with performance. They're overpaying for Lowe and JJ was a steal. But there's more to building a team for the long term than that.

 

[mstatefan88]

Can someone remind me who said the Braves should keep Lowe and get rid of Jurrjens?

I like Schafer alot and wouldn't mind him being an everyday player because I think he can be an good CF. But if we can upgrade anywhere in the OF and geta young guywho is a legit 25 HR guy a yearI would trade Jurrjens for that. But I would much rather dump Lowe and get nothing in return than lose JJ if it came down to it. Some team needing a starter might be willing to takeLowe and pay half his contract, like what we did with Coloradowith Mike Hampton way back except we would be on the other end.

If we can get rid of half of Lowe's contract, and with the possibility Chipper retires at the end of this year, we would have a ton of money to resign JJ, and still be able to get a good OF. I would love to move Prado back to 3rd base, and grab a big bat to go in LF. That for me would be the ideal situation.

 

[MSUArrowCS]

Can someone remind me who said the Braves should keep Lowe and get rid of Jurrjens?

for not landing an OF that can hit 30 HRs, but wrong for signing a 2B that can? That makes sense.

Uggla is struggling, but that wasn't a bad deal. He hit .287 last year and won the Silver Slugger. And the Braves do have an OF with 30 HR potential and now one of the only 2B in the game with that kind of power. Combine that with 20-25 HR power from catcher and corner infielders, and that's not a team, when healthy, that should have a problem hitting HRs.

And here's a great point that Bobby Valentine mentioned on the broadcast last night ... they're going to save millions in arbitration over the next three years with Prado in LF vs. 2B.

 

[MStateFan22]

Can someone remind me who said the Braves should keep Lowe and get rid of Jurrjens?

Except I'm not a big Schafer believer.

 

[HighPointDawg]

Can someone remind me who said the Braves should keep Lowe and get rid of Jurrjens?

these guys have explained why.. He's lucky as hell so far though.. he's a 3.80-4.00 ERA pitcher who's getting some breaks and if we can get #1 type return for him they should.. Then leave Minor and Beachy up and Teheran will be ready soon enough to stay up. Lowe is overpaid, hard to trade and more valuable than the average fan thinks.

Now the more pressing issue is Fredi... I was supportive of his quick hire but he is literally killing Venters and Kimbrel and has made some of the most boneheaded manager decisions that I have ever seen. .

 

[HighPointDawg]

Can someone remind me who said the Braves should keep Lowe and get rid of Jurrjens?

I love that Wren picked up a 30 HR 2B (and yes he is that even if he isn't hitting right now) moved Prado to the OF with plans for him to be the 3B when Chipper is gone for significantly less money. There were so many things at play with the move for Uggla that it is hard to explain how good it was.

That said... I said it then and I say it now.. they should have waited to extend him. I think everybody in the front office thought that if Uggla went out and hit .250 with 35 HRs that they wouldn't be able to sign him.

Before you bash on Uggla too much.. he is really improved his defense, made some incredible plays this year... and he has hit the most HR in the HISTORY of the majors in his first 5 years for somebody playing 2B or SS.

 

[MSUArrowCS]

Can someone remind me who said the Braves should keep Lowe and get rid of Jurrjens?

JS finally appears to have gotten his stuff together (plus we're still on the books for McLouth ... ugh), and Prado and Heyward have to be in the lineup somewhere.

I would still take an upgrade in CF, but power-hitting CFs are worth their weight in gold. I doubt even JJ could land that unless it's a young guy, plus it means you'd essentially have to deal Schafer. If Schafer is finally ready, the problem really boils down to getting Heyward healthy and Uggla producing.

 

[boomboommsu]

Can someone remind me who said the Braves should keep Lowe and get rid of Jurrjens?

I doubt they trade him in-season now, now that JJ is pitching lights out, Teheran looks to need a little more time, and Beachy went down with an injury.Plus Schafer is looking good at CF, the bullpen is solid, so they have no immediate trade needs.

But they will trade him in the offseason. They need to free up two two starting pitcher spots for next year, or else they'll be wasting Minor and/or Teheran in the minors. And then they have at least 3 more high-ceiling starters that should be ready for 2013. They are just ridiculously stocked at SP. Everyone currently in the rotation is signed for next year though. Hudson can veto a trade, and Hanson doesn't start arbitration till 2013, so he's too cheap and good to trade. And no one wants Lowe because he is overpaid. That leaves JJ. If they signed him, they'd be paying him big $ in the same years that Hanson,Heyward, Venters, and Kimbrelare hitting arbitration, and when their young talent will be ready at SP. It's just not a fit.

There is no way they are signing Jurrjens to a long-term contract with the influx of cheap talent they have coming along at SP, when they have nothing coming along anywhere else. Not unless they can get a good trade on that talent for other needs, and no one seems to biting on that type of trade (Minor for Rasmus orPence, etc.).

The biggest wild-card right now is Jordan Schafer in CF. If he looks good there, that fills a huge hole. They'll then start looking to fill SS for next year, and freeing up money to sign a big $ LF whenever Chipper retires (with Prado moving to 3B).

 

[boomboommsu]

Can someone remind me who said the Braves should keep Lowe and get rid of Jurrjens?

JJ is now using Venters' grip. I think his success so far is a combination of better movement on his pitches from the new grip, and hitters not yet having adjusted to it. I don't think he's a 4.00 ERA pitcher anymore.

 

[bruiser.sixpack]

Can someone remind me who said the Braves should keep Lowe and get rid of Jurrjens?

I know it is baseball blasphemy, but I'd trade McCann before I'd trade a pitcher. Left handed hitting catcher with power and youth could bring in 2 bats.

As long as the Phils stay with their pitching staff, the Braves need to stand pat or add quality to the staff. They should wait for a AAA player to develop before seasons end as long as they can stay within 5 games of Philly with so many head to head games still left in their division.

 

[SchruteDog]

Can someone remind me who said the Braves should keep Lowe and get rid of Jurrjens?

No, nothing wrong at all with the Uggla TRADE, but giving him 60 mill over 5 years at age 31 was ridiculously stupid for a club that's payroll doesn't even exceed 90 million.

 

[boomboommsu]

Can someone remind me who said the Braves should keep Lowe and get rid of Jurrjens?

Ross apparantly doesn't want to play every day, and the Braves have no one in the organization that is capable.

Besides, they've already traded away two top C prospects in the last few years. McCann is the plan.

 

[bruiser.sixpack]

Can someone remind me who said the Braves should keep Lowe and get rid of Jurrjens?

Ross apparantly doesn't want to play every day, and the Braves have no one in the organization that is capable.

Besides, they've already traded away two top C prospects in the last few years. McCann is the plan.

Just believe we would have a better chance at getting TWO hitters for McCann than one for Juerrgens. But I see the rational of trading a pitcher for bats. Just don't want to do it justyet. Not pannick time.

 

[boomboommsu]

Can someone remind me who said the Braves should keep Lowe and get rid of Jurrjens?

They have multiple top prospects ready to contribute at SP, but no spots for them. They have no one ready to contribute at C, or any other position for that matter. They don't even have a backup SS at this point. Let alone a starting one, and their current one is a FA after this year. All they have in the minors (besides SP) is a steady supply of 4th OFs and backup second basemen. Hell, the prospect they signed last year that they expected to take over for Chipper, currently has 20 errors in A ball.

So you trade a SP. Or two. Or even three.

It ain't rocket science.

Put it this way: who would you rather start the whole season for us next year: Jurrjens and Diory Hernandez, or Teheran and Jose Reyes?

 

[MSUArrowCS]

Can someone remind me who said the Braves should keep Lowe and get rid of Jurrjens?

13M/year is below average for any guy that can hit 30 HRs/year. Last year, 18 guys hit 30+. Here's how much guys are making:

ARod (32M)
Wells (26M)
Teixeira (23M)
Adrian Gonzalez (22M)* (extension signed in April)

Cabrera (20M)
Howard (20M)
Fielder (15.5M)
Pujols (14.5M)
Ortiz (12.5M)
Konerko (12M)
Dunn (12M)
Uggla (9M) (next 4 years at 13M)
Hamilton (8.75M)
Bautista (8M)
Votto (7.4M)
Hart (6.8M)
Reynolds (5.3M)
Carlos Gonzalez (1.4M)

Of the 9 guys making less than Uggla's long-term commitment of 13M this year, two are full-time DHs (Dunn and Ortiz), and almost all of the rest are very early in their careers, especially in terms of salaries. Uggla has averaged 31 over five seasons. I'll admit that the extension may have been premature, but if Uggla produces anywhere near what he's been doing, it'll be a bargain. There are plenty of 31-36 y/o infielders in the league producing just fine.

Spending 15% of your payroll on the cleanup hitter doesn't seem to be that big of a stretch either. Similar payrolls like Milwaukee (Fielder), Colorado (Helton), and Texas (Young) are spending the same or even higher percentages on theirs. Committing to Uggla long-term was a risk, but nowhere near ridiculously stupid or a fireable offense. The same payroll is only a year or two away from replacing Chipper ($14M), Lowe ($15M) and Hudson ($9M) with much cheaper extremely viable alternatives.

 

[boomboommsu]

Can someone remind me who said the Braves should keep Lowe and get rid of Jurrjens?

Most of those contracts are for players thru their prime years. And most of those guys are 40 HR hitters, not 30 HR hitters, with average to boot. Uggla's will be for a couple prime years and then decline years. Plus, Uggla doesn't really contribute anything besides the HRs. And he has the skill set and swing of a player that will decline fast and horribly, not slowly a la Chipper. Just look at how little it's taken for him to be horrible this year. Very few people think he'll be hitting even 20 HRs the last two years of that contract, even before his horrible start to this year.

It's basically another Derek Lowe contract. Good results, but overpaid enough that we'll be stuck with him no matter what.

 

[HighPointDawg]

Can someone remind me who said the Braves should keep Lowe and get rid of Jurrjens?

We also have Delgado coming up in the SP ranks soon and the guy we got for Vazquez (Visciano) who is recovering from injury but should be good.

I am one of the few Alex Gonzalez fans out there but Jose Reyes would be awesome since we have lacked a good leadoff guy for years.

 

[MSUArrowCS]

Can someone remind me who said the Braves should keep Lowe and get rid of Jurrjens?

And Uggla plays the middle infield, which contributes quite a bit more than many of those guys already. Most of them are fat first basemen.

Again, I'm not necessarily defending the contract, except to say that I don't see it as a stupid move. It was a calculated risk and maybe a year early, but I still don't even concede it as overpaying, unless production is just nowhere near where it's been the past 5 years.

 

[mstatefan88]

Can someone remind me who said the Braves should keep Lowe and get rid of Jurrjens?

He was supposed to be an answer for us in the outfield, but nowhe's in the Pittsburgh organization doing very poorly. The potential talent from that trade was very underrated, and it was supposed to be very beneficial on our end. But Hernandez busted big time and that hurt us.

Right now we are obviously missing a bat, mostly because Heyward is on the DL, and Uggla looks like he's never played baseball before. We always do this though. We suck in April, pitch well and win close games in May, suck after the All Star break, catch back up in August, and implode in September.

We have loads of starting talent, and I really hope we can find a good outfielder to replace McLouth, who is possibly the worst acquisition the Braves organization has ever had. I'm hoping in the offseason Wren addresses the clear need for talent andcontinuity in the outfield.