It is college football. The players are all still students, all still going to class. The vast majority are still earning degrees. It's different, of course, but it's still college football.
CFB Will Be Dead As We Know It , If This Happens
- Thread starter Harvard Gamecock
- Start date
Not in actuality. The rate of transfer for college football far outpaces that of the non-athlete student. And the rate of multiple transfers absolutely dwarfs the multiple transfer rate for the non-athlete student.
Normal college students don't go to 3 and 4 different undergraduate schools.
The system used to be set up in such a way that a student-athlete essentially had to go out of their to not get a degree while in college. Maybe they chose a useless degree, which was their choice, but programs used to be evaluated on graduation rate.
When is the last time you ever heard a hint of a college football graduation rate? Maybe you can find it if you go dig it up online. Not only does nobody even care anymore, nobody even pretends that getting a degree...any degree...is even an objective.
Yes, there were always those players who didn't care about college and were only there out of necessity, but the vast majority benefitted from the setup to obtain a degree.
The system is now actually designed to hinder the athlete from obtaining a degree. You can get in college 5, 6 7 or even 8 years and still walk away without a degree.
The transfer portal makes it seem this way, but it's not actually true. The stats are pretty interesting. Graduation rates for athletes are significantly better now than they were 20 years ago. Graduation rates among athletes are very similar to the rates among non-athletes and are actually higher for the athletes in some demographics.
DI graduation rates remain at highest level - NCAA.org
Division I student-athletes are graduating at record rates, according to the latest Graduation Success Rate data announced Wednesday. The overall single-cohort rate
www.ncaa.org
Not saying it would be easy but it's getting easier.
For much the same reason I've been able to largely split from pro sports. As I've gotten older, I've realized the silliness of being more invested in the success of a team than the players who play on that team. That's where my affection for pro sports waned and my love of college sports grew. The players, largely, were invested because they were there for the long haul. One thing college sports had over pro sports is the inextricable link of most players to a particular program. Steve Taneyhill was and always will be a Gamecock. George Rogers was and always will be a Gamecock. Peyton Manning was and always will be a Vol. Tim Tebow was and always will be a Gator. Herschel Walker was and always will be a Dawg. Throughout the history of the sport, players were identified with a single team.
That's obliterated now. Spencer Rattler, as much as I love him and he was 100% Gamecock when he was here, I can't look at in the same light as a Taneyhill. Kyle Kennard spent 12 games as a Gamecock. Was it a great 12 games? Absolutely. But I can't possibly look at him as an all-time Gamecock great when he literally passed through Columbia. Shoot, his farewell message mentioned another school. Players just come and go now so it's increasingly difficult to get too terribly invested.
One thing I loved about college sport was that we had our players and they had their players. You learned to hate the players on the opposing teams and knew you had 4 years to beat them. It was a hallmark of college sports. Peyton Manning came back to college for his final season, largely (maybe solely), because he wanted a final crack at beating Spurrier and the Gators. THAT is college football. And it'll never happen again.
Now the player you hate could very well end up on your own team and a player you love on your own team could end up playing for an opponent the next season. I just don't have the ability to delude myself into cheering for/against a player one season and then swapping it the next season. Yes, there were always transfers to some degree, but it was, comparably, exceedingly rare, and almost never did you hear of starters transferring to another program just because.
A poster above said you were always just cheering for the logo, irrespective of the players wearing the uniform. That's load of malarkey. When I was younger, I absolutely LOVED the Gamecock players. You would follow a guy from a true freshman all the way through his junior of senior season and the became indelibly linked to the program.
College football has always been about the link between players and the program. Once that's gone, whatever remains isn't college football.
lol, yeah, not trusting that data.The transfer portal makes it seem this way, but it's not actually true. The stats are pretty interesting. Graduation rates for athletes are significantly better now than they were 20 years ago. Graduation rates among athletes are very similar to the rates among non-athletes and are actually higher for the athletes in some demographics.
DI graduation rates remain at highest level - NCAA.org
Division I student-athletes are graduating at record rates, according to the latest Graduation Success Rate data announced Wednesday. The overall single-cohort rate
It's a fallacy on the face of it. For one, we are still early in the portal era and VERY early in the unlimited transfer era.
Anyone in the know concedes it's going to have deleterious effects on graduation rates. There's simply no way it can't.
As college football transfer portal becomes more chaotic, focus on educational values continues to dwindle
With the relaxation or elimination of NCAA transfer rules, there will be more chaos than ever as more players jump to new schools
www.cbssports.com
Any one who understands college academics understands that there is no way the unlimited transfer phenomenon won't be harmful graduation rates. It's almost intentionally harmful.
This article is lengthy but examines in detail how the academic aspect is fast dwindling away.
"One of the mysteries of the transfer portal era is how these guys and girls are staying eligible. It would be worth the price of admission to view the transcripts of any multi-transfer athlete. Or should we even care in a NCAA world that values NIL and transfer freedom over academics -- whether anyone likes it or not. "
"Eligibility doesn't necessarily equal a degree. A large portion of credits don't transfer. Former college quarterback JT Daniels told CBS Sports in January that 60-70% of his credits didn't transfer during his unique journey that included four schools over six years. Complicating matters is that the credit transfer process itself is at the discretion of individual schools. "
"Smith said "35-40%" of his credits didn't transfer as he matriculated from Texas to USC and then to Arizona State. Again, it's entirely up to the individual school what credits to accept, which frequently leads players to pursue majors that align with football. 'That almost became a magical thing. You have an educational choice in that. It's somebody finding you a major. That's where you usually find someone is going to be put in general studies or a major is going to be created.'"
So you may have a player who actually graduates, but because of the credit loss that comes from multiple transfers they are a graduate in technicality only. They end up with a degree worth less than the paper it's printed on. Because they have no choice.
And the line that anyone who understand college academics knows is an absolutely guarantee: "It's a long-proven fact that the more a student transfers, the less likely that person is to graduate." THAT was the reason for the NCAA's onerous transfer rules.
This article is lengthy but examines in detail how the academic aspect is fast dwindling away.
"One of the mysteries of the transfer portal era is how these guys and girls are staying eligible. It would be worth the price of admission to view the transcripts of any multi-transfer athlete. Or should we even care in a NCAA world that values NIL and transfer freedom over academics -- whether anyone likes it or not. "
"Eligibility doesn't necessarily equal a degree. A large portion of credits don't transfer. Former college quarterback JT Daniels told CBS Sports in January that 60-70% of his credits didn't transfer during his unique journey that included four schools over six years. Complicating matters is that the credit transfer process itself is at the discretion of individual schools. "
"Smith said "35-40%" of his credits didn't transfer as he matriculated from Texas to USC and then to Arizona State. Again, it's entirely up to the individual school what credits to accept, which frequently leads players to pursue majors that align with football. 'That almost became a magical thing. You have an educational choice in that. It's somebody finding you a major. That's where you usually find someone is going to be put in general studies or a major is going to be created.'"
So you may have a player who actually graduates, but because of the credit loss that comes from multiple transfers they are a graduate in technicality only. They end up with a degree worth less than the paper it's printed on. Because they have no choice.
And the line that anyone who understand college academics knows is an absolutely guarantee: "It's a long-proven fact that the more a student transfers, the less likely that person is to graduate." THAT was the reason for the NCAA's onerous transfer rules.
As an aside, degrees in certain majors may not be as useless as one may think. Philosophy is actually a usefully degree for law school, with analytical thinking an writing in much of the classes and homework.
Sure. Don't disagree there.
However, as noted in the article linked above, as you have players transferring multiple times, losing credits each time, you end up just sticking them in majors like "general studies" which is absolutely good for nothing. Everyone in college academics knows that transferring multiple times is a killer for obtaining a degree. Now, most football players aren't out there getting philosophy degrees to begin with. You take whatever cake degree they may be initially pursuing and even that gets downgraded through multiple transfers.
18IsTheMan, I can envision you writing a best-selling book about the death of college football in the near future.
@18IsTheMan (clarification needed):
“So you may have a player who actually graduates, but because of the credit loss that comes from multiple transfers they are a graduate in technicality only. They end up with a degree worth less than the paper it's printed on. Because they have no choice.”
The statement above, especially the phrase “a graduate in technicality only,” due to “credit loss” makes it appear as though the graduate didn’t meet the academic credit requirement but was still allowed to graduate.
I’ve been associated with higher education for over 40 years (and my father was a university professor for 39 years), and other than an honorary degree given to notable recipients, every individual who graduated had to meet credit requirements for their particular degree. If they didn’t meet the requirement, they weren’t allowed to graduate. Period.
Perhaps you meant they had to settle for a lessor degree than what they started pursuing?
Oh, and they DID have a choice—instead of choosing to get a significant degree allowing them to contribute to society, they chose to throw it all away for the entertainment industry.
“So you may have a player who actually graduates, but because of the credit loss that comes from multiple transfers they are a graduate in technicality only. They end up with a degree worth less than the paper it's printed on. Because they have no choice.”
The statement above, especially the phrase “a graduate in technicality only,” due to “credit loss” makes it appear as though the graduate didn’t meet the academic credit requirement but was still allowed to graduate.
I’ve been associated with higher education for over 40 years (and my father was a university professor for 39 years), and other than an honorary degree given to notable recipients, every individual who graduated had to meet credit requirements for their particular degree. If they didn’t meet the requirement, they weren’t allowed to graduate. Period.
Perhaps you meant they had to settle for a lessor degree than what they started pursuing?
Oh, and they DID have a choice—instead of choosing to get a significant degree allowing them to contribute to society, they chose to throw it all away for the entertainment industry.
I was a university professor myself as well and a graduate TA for several years prior.
The point was that they will graduate with a degree that was tailored to meet the very specific needs of a multiple transfer athlete who is not capable of keeping up enough credits for a functional degree. So, yes, technically a degree, but not a degree that will be useful for anything upon graduation.
And, yes, I agree with the part about having a choice. This was the great wisdom of the NCAA transfer rule. Those who understand it realize the NCAA was not just being a bunch of dicks and trying to make slaves out of the student athlete. That rule, specifically, was grounded in the understanding educators had about the higher education process and knowing that transferring was ultimately detrimental to what was, at one time, the primary goal of obtaining a degree. Believe it or not, college football was once a means to obtaining a degree for many who would not otherwise have the opportunity. Gradually, over time, the focus shifted and the academics became more of a necessary evil. Something you simply had to do if you wanted to play football. That erosion continued to where we are now. Many of the NCAAs rules were in place for reasons of education.
Back to the transfer situation, though, that rule was founded at a time when it was not politically incorrect to acknowledge than 18, 19, 20 year old kids didn't always make the best decisions and so it was necessary to put up some guardrails to protect them from themselves.
As the article I linked above notes one official asking we can only imagine what the graduation will look like in the future. Give it 10 years of having this multiple transfer rule and you'll see graduation rates plummet. It's a certainty.
Thanks for the clarification. I agree on all points in regards to the initial intent and subsequent degradation.
I know we seem to be beating a dead horse to many readers but the decline in American education (Dumbing Down of America) has so many implications. It’s sad.
Sometimes I look at this as a parent when dealing with my kids. We teach our kids they simply have to get used to being told "no". Probably a lot.
For some reason, the prevailing opinion is that we can't, under any circumstances, ever say "no" to the modern student athlete. Even if "no" is in their best interest. We are dealing with a generation of kids who have never been told "no" and many grownups who believe they never should be.
It’s interesting you should mention teaching a generation that “no” is often the best answer. We just bought our daughter a book (she requested) titled “Raising Grateful Kids in an Entitled World: How One Family Learned That Saying No Can Lead to Life's Biggest Yes”.
Being told "no" and being allowed to fail are two things kids over the last 20 years have not really had to deal with too much. Much more is learned in failure than in success but parents step in to prevent failure from very early childhood and, as a result, kids have very few life lessons when they reach adulthood. Upon reaching adulthood and being cast out into the real world where no one cares if you fail, young adults really struggle with the concept of "no" and "failure".
Ok, well, first you have to define "grateful" for this generation lol
Seriously, though, looks like a great book. You do have to fight some instincts in saying "no" to your kids. It's easy to think "I want them to be happy and saying 'yes' makes them happy."
That's what I don't get. How are these student-athletes transferring multiple times and choosing a school that both wants them and has the same degree program that they started? I guess if you're planning on school jumping, pick a vanilla degree program.
That average is no doubt helped by early exits to the draft and transfer portal. I would bet the majority of those who stay do eventually finish their degrees.The transfer portal makes it seem this way, but it's not actually true. The stats are pretty interesting. Graduation rates for athletes are significantly better now than they were 20 years ago. Graduation rates among athletes are very similar to the rates among non-athletes and are actually higher for the athletes in some demographics.
DI graduation rates remain at highest level - NCAA.org
Division I student-athletes are graduating at record rates, according to the latest Graduation Success Rate data announced Wednesday. The overall single-cohort rate
I suggest this is not a football exclusive, but rather the result of astronomical salaries paid to professional athletes.
For those student athletes playing football at the FCS and D-II levels and D-II for all other sports, the primary goal is a degree; the chances of turning pro in sports at those levels is nil. I exclude D-III since athletic scholarships are prohibited at that level.
The other aspect of this issue is being told they have to work for something and ''no, you don't get to start at the top''. You have to prove yourself and work your way up is totally foreign to many young adults.
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