Clifford

[Calabrin]

You don't pump fake on a timing play.....LOL
How do you know he isn't superior? You are assuming the turnovers were 100% on Clifford and his replacement would have thrown for 370 yards
By the way, receivers everywhere in America are making great catches....have you ever seen another team play?
Let's play for next year! Call in PJ Mustipher and others who will not be back next year and tell them you've now shifted your focus to next season.
LOL
Do you think next year will be better than a shot at 10-2 and a trip to a NY6?
You might get good odds in Vegas

Incorrect. You pump fake when the situation demands it. If a D-line an beats his blocker and is in your face, you don’t throw the ball into his chest and then after he’s intercepted and returned it for a TD, look at your coach and teammates and go, “I had no choice! Timing!”

 

[Calabrin]

You don't pump fake on a timing play.....LOL
How do you know he isn't superior? You are assuming the turnovers were 100% on Clifford and his replacement would have thrown for 370 yards
By the way, receivers everywhere in America are making great catches....have you ever seen another team play?
Let's play for next year! Call in PJ Mustipher and others who will not be back next year and tell them you've now shifted your focus to next season.
LOL
Do you think next year will be better than a shot at 10-2 and a trip to a NY6?
You might get good odds in Vegas

Still missing the point, dude. If you want to litigate whose fault it is, fine.

The point I’m making is that there’s no longer any point in playing Clifford. It yields nothing.

Your desperate attempts to argue that Penn State should continue to play a not-good QB who is out of the program and out of football after another 5 games are pure trolling. If you have a case to put forth as to why Clifford should continue to start, let’s hear it.

 

[Bvillebaron]

This has to be the end of Sean Clifford. There was barely any sane means of rationalizing his continued #1 status before today, and now there’s absolutely no way anyone with half a brain continues to play him.

Let’s consider some facts:

-6th year QB with a low ceiling
-Has played poorly this season, and somehow managed to save up his worst performance for Ohio State
-No future as a football player
-Done after 4 more regular season games against soft opponents + bowl game

I do not buy the excuse that he has “earned the right to play.” Nah. You earn your right to play by delivering results, not by being a super-super-senior. You earn your right to play by being better than the other guys at your position. Sean has played poorly this year, and he single handedly coughed up 4 turnovers against an opponent we had a chance to beat, which were converted into 21 points against us. That’s the OPPOSITE of “earning the right to play”. That’s earning a seat on the bench.

If the excuse is, “He gives us the best chance to win,” then that means his no-better-than-averageness (which has often been worse than that this season) is somehow superior to Drew Allar and Christian Veillieux…? Does anyone seriously want to make that argument? That D & C are below average?

But the most compelling reason to sit Clifford for the rest of the season is simply that he doesn’t bring anything to the table. He is a sunken cost. Why waste valuable real-game reps on a guy that’s about to be done, and is going nowhere in football? Christian and Drew could tag-team the last four games and get invaluable experience for next season so that we’re not heading into 2023 with two greenhorns at QB.

The thing is: if Drew or Christian had coughed up four turnovers today, would anyone have been upset? No. Because we understand the process of coaching a young QB toward reaching his potential. We understand they’re not gonna be Brady out of the gate. But to sit there and watch a 6th year QB do it… who supposedly gives us our “best chance” of winning…? Inexcusable.

Also, why did JF continue to send Sean out there when the game was out of reach? My hope is that it was just to give him a chance to score that junk TD and become PSU’s all-time leader in TD passes because in the back of his mind, Franklin was thinking, “You’re done after today, buddy-boy.”

I don’t want to be too harsh on the young man, but the tough part about being a GOOD coach is knowing when to cut bait on an underachiever. You got two other guys back there with a future and higher talent ceilings. You got smoked by your two toughest opponents of the season (again!). It’s time to move on. It’s time to prepare this squad to be better, and perhaps even something special in a couple of years.

It’s time for the Drew Allar Show.

Wow good thing you don’t want to be “too harsh” on Clifford; I would hate to see what you would have said if you intended to do so. I agree that it’s time to turn over the reins to Allar given how Clifford played yesterday. Far too many mistakes for a 6 th year senior in a key game.

 

[Bvillebaron]

Question....if the last 7 minutes are the coaches fault, should he be praised for the first 53 minutes?
Remember, this is all revisionist history. I didn't see anyone here saying PSU was going to win.
PSU loses a game that they were 15.5 underdogs and call it a failure.
"Krafty" doesn't need a Rabbit he needs 63 million plus whatever the staff contracts are to fire CJF.and then
The "Krafty" needs more than that to h


ire the guy who makes PSU into OSU.
That's some "Krafty" rabbit to pull out.
I'm not paying CJF....but he's not exactly the Lone Ranger. Hello Jimbo Fisher, Mel Tucker, Mario Cristobal, David Shaw, If you want to pay a coach about 5 million per year, you would get a Pat Narduzzi.

My response is simple. Because the coaches see Allar each and every day. You don't throw players out there to see what you have. In an overwhelming percentage of cases, a coach has a pretty good idea what a player can and cannot do. It's why we have practices.
Again, before you make a change like that, it would be most prudent that the veterans on the team have seen the reason for the "youth" movement.
The other "once phenoms" aren't nearly as impressed with press clippings as the fans are.
Again, as difficult as it may be, fans should be assured that when Allar is everything they contend he will be.....the coaches will put him in. I heard a rumor they would like to win too.

Well if the veterans on the team don’t see a reason for a youth movement at QB after yesterday given the youth movement at so many other positions, then I think they probably are missing the boat. By the way, wanting to win and starting Allar against the next 4 opponents aren’t mutually exclusive.

 

[MacNit]

Question....if the last 7 minutes are the coaches fault, should he be praised for the first 53 minutes?
Remember, this is all revisionist history. I didn't see anyone here saying PSU was going to win.
PSU loses a game that they were 15.5 underdogs and call it a failure.
"Krafty" doesn't need a Rabbit he needs 63 million plus whatever the staff contracts are to fire CJF.and then
The "Krafty" needs more than that to h


ire the guy who makes PSU into OSU.
That's some "Krafty" rabbit to pull out.
I'm not paying CJF....but he's not exactly the Lone Ranger. Hello Jimbo Fisher, Mel Tucker, Mario Cristobal, David Shaw, If you want to pay a coach about 5 million per year, you would get a Pat Narduzzi.

My response is simple. Because the coaches see Allar each and every day. You don't throw players out there to see what you have. In an overwhelming percentage of cases, a coach has a pretty good idea what a player can and cannot do. It's why we have practices.
Again, before you make a change like that, it would be most prudent that the veterans on the team have seen the reason for the "youth" movement.
The other "once phenoms" aren't nearly as impressed with press clippings as the fans are.
Again, as difficult as it may be, fans should be assured that when Allar is everything they contend he will be.....the coaches will put him in. I heard a rumor they would like to win too.

Lots of verbiage in a single post.

Penn State is on the wrong trajectory and stuck with a Coach with a single victory over a more talented team in 9 years. And plenty of losses to those who were less talented.

And because of the Sandy/Onion Dip/BOT incompetency, Krafty does need to pull a rabbit out of the hat. And accessing mucho dinero is part of it.

That said, it is possible and it has been done at other schools.

Or we can just concede any challenging game and enjoy the loss. To be honest, I am amazed at the loyalty of the PSU fanbase. How we can continue to draw 100,000 plus in the face of such extended underachievement and mediocrity is something to marvel.

 

[marshall23]

Again, fair points. My response simply then would be, you already know SC isn’t good enough, so why not see what you have with the phenom?

And again, this isn't a cake recipe. You don't need to "throw" someone into a game to see what you have.
In all my years of coaching or playing, I don't recall a coach saying..."he fellows, let's throw Muggy into the game and see what we have."

 

[marshall23]

Lots of verbiage in a single post.

Penn State is on the wrong trajectory and stuck with a Coach with a single victory over a more talented team in 9 years. And plenty of losses to those who were less talented.

And because of the Sandy/Onion Dip/BOT incompetency, Krafty does need to pull a rabbit out of the hat. And accessing mucho dinero is part of it.

That said, it is possible and it has been done at other schools.

Or we can just concede any challenging game and enjoy the loss. To be honest, I am amazed at the loyalty of the PSU fanbase. How we can continue to draw 100,000 plus in the face of such extended underachievement and mediocrity is something to marvel.

I would like you to produce an instance where a school has paid over 63 million dollars to buy out a coach.
This wild and silly scenario is enhanced by the fact that he is currently 6-2 and #16 in the country.
Let's say for arguments sake he finishes 10-3 or 9-4......I'm asserting that's gonna be a pretty hard sell.
To say that would be unprecedented would be a knee slapping understatement.

Problem #2 with your suggestion is to locate that miracle worker who can be JVP #2 and keep all the top players CJF recruited from entering the portal when you axe him.
Let's call the new Coach Jesus Christ. Do you think PSU gets Jesus to come here for less than what you are paying CJF?
So it isn't 63 million plus staff contracts its 133 million plus 2 entire staff contracts. Let's say conservatively 140 million.
Good luck.

 

[Train027]

Penn State is bowl eligible. Will Cliff play in the bowl game or pass on it to prepare for the combine?

 

[marshall23]

Well if the veterans on the team don’t see a reason for a youth movement at QB after yesterday given the youth movement at so many other positions, then I think they probably are missing the boat. By the way, wanting to win and starting Allar against the next 4 opponents aren’t mutually exclusive.

So what you are inferring is that "fans" want to win more than coaches.
Imagine how preposterous it is to suggest that a fan can see something that a coach or an actual player can't?
If you are blaming Cliff for 3 of those turnovers, you must be related to the right tackle.

Do you imagine that none of the "veteran" player saw Clifford throw for 370 yards?

 

[marshall23]

Still missing the point, dude. If you want to litigate whose fault it is, fine.

The point I’m making is that there’s no longer any point in playing Clifford. It yields nothing.

Your desperate attempts to argue that Penn State should continue to play a not-good QB who is out of the program and out of football after another 5 games are pure trolling. If you have a case to put forth as to why Clifford should continue to start, let’s hear it.

My desperate attempt....dude....is to acknowledge that it is the coaching staff's decision to make.
Some crying fanboy sitting on his couch is in no position to make the evaluation.
If Allar isn't clearly better than Clifford then Clifford will get the start and the majority of reps.
PSU's goal is to be 1-0 this week and reach 10-2. This would be far above what all analysts and experts predicted for this team. I know WE DESERVE BETTER!

The fact that many guys who never played the sport walk around with a perpetual stiffy looking at Allar's 5 star ratings,
doesn't enter into a coaching staff's decision.

In addition, empirical evidence regarding behavior of fanboys will have them crying for Allar's backup by this time next year.

For your mental health, I pray they put the shiny new object in the game before Christmas. LOL

 

[marshall23]

Can’t argue with what we don’t see in practice. My ultimate take on SC is he reached his ceiling a long time ago, and we already know it’s not enough. Great kid/leader, but probably has played too long.

Not our decision to make. He was only partially responsible for 3 of the turnovers.....right tackle was not up to the task.
Cliff lit up OSU secondary for 370 yards (they gave up 140 avg) why am I not seeing any credit for that?

 

[marshall23]

Up at 5 A.M. to write out what has been said a 100,000 times by other people? Good for you.

The "dude" is committed.....or should be.

 

[marshall23]

Incorrect. You pump fake when the situation demands it. If a D-line an beats his blocker and is in your face, you don’t throw the ball into his chest and then after he’s intercepted and returned it for a TD, look at your coach and teammates and go, “I had no choice! Timing!”

okay coach

 

[marshall23]

Penn State is bowl eligible. Will Cliff play in the bowl game or pass on it to prepare for the combine?

He will likely play because he is projected as an undrafted free agent. I sincerely hope he plays just to chap all the moaners here.

 

[BobPSU92]

I would like you to produce an instance where a school has paid over 63 million dollars to buy out a coach.
This wild and silly scenario is enhanced by the fact that he is currently 6-2 and #16 in the country.
Let's say for arguments sake he finishes 10-3 or 9-4......I'm asserting that's gonna be a pretty hard sell.
To say that would be unprecedented would be a knee slapping understatement.

Problem #2 with your suggestion is to locate that miracle worker who can be JVP #2 and keep all the top players CJF recruited from entering the portal when you axe him.
Let's call the new Coach Jesus Christ. Do you think PSU gets Jesus to come here for less than what you are paying CJF?
So it isn't 63 million plus staff contracts its 133 million plus 2 entire staff contracts. Let's say conservatively 140 million.
Good luck.

FIRE. FRANKLIN. is the easy part. It’s even easier when it is someone else’s money. Let’s FIRE. FRANKLIN. . The buyout and next coach? That’s a lot of work. Let Kraft handle that.

 

[PSUSignore]

You should probably start mentally preparing yourself now because Clifford is going to start again this week as the team tries to get to a NY6 bowl.

 

[Bwifan]

Penn State is bowl eligible. Will Cliff play in the bowl game or pass on it to prepare for the combine?

Exactly why I start playing Allar more and more.... New Years Day Bowl games aren't what they used to be. Unless you are in the playoffs players will opt out of the NYD bowl games to prepare for the NFL draft and not risk injury. Time to get Allar reps and a good chunk of them every game from here on out. Understand if they didn't Allar to get killed running the gaunlet of Michie, Minnie, tOSU but now is time to IMHO to insert Allar for at least a half per game. PSU will always have 2-3 losses every year otherwise, JF is too loyal to players. Question is how does everyone define success? From the Admin, Trustees, students, alumni, etc.... If people are happy losing 2-3 games each year while graduating players then they will be happy with Franklin. If they want to be elite and take the next step, either JF has to change his ways and make hard decisions about who to start or PSU needs find another coach....

 

[Ludd]

J

Just a reminder he choose Clifford over Levi's.

Funny, UK fans are saying they would rather have Clifford. Strange how that works.

 

[PSUFBFAN]

I want to disagree in this way. Like never before, next year never comes in college football. We sometimes fail to grasp the magnitude of the portal added to NIL. Let me pose a scenario. A team....any team....I'll use Texas needs a proven RB to put the cherry on the sundae ( or so their high rolling boosters think) they offer Kaytron Allen 3 million to come to Texas.
I'm being told there are D1 coaches living in fear that virtually all their difference makers are jumping to the portal in December.
A coach owes it to his departing players....like PJ Mustipher to win as much as they can now and at the same time build depth (which usually translates to playing younger guys). It's delicate and the terrain is pretty treacherous and unchartered.
Coaching was always a tough job.....this is madness.
I'll state again that Clifford was offered a 6th year....he was not entitled to it.....for a reason.
If Allar becomes the best qb they will start him.
If not, I expect moving forward, to see a more concerted effort to find him some snaps during the competitive parts of the remaining games.
Whatever happens I'll rely on the coaches.
If for no other reason than, in all my years, I've never seen a fan hired as a division one coach.

Post #682. I don't think I've ever agreed more with one of your prior 681 posts. Seriously. well done!

 

[marshall23]

FIRE. FRANKLIN. is the easy part. It’s even easier when it is someone else’s money. Let’s FIRE. FRANKLIN. . The buyout and next coach? That’s a lot of work. Let Kraft handle that.

I hope they do. I want to live long enough to see the same cretins turn on the next coach.....just like they will turn on Allar once he actually plays enough.

 

[marshall23]

Post #682. I don't think I've ever agreed more with one of your prior 681 posts. Seriously. well done!

Thanks....I would really like to be an "elite" fan (LOL)
I've spent 51 years..... started coaching in 1971 (only HS) retired after 13 years as a high school head coach and since 1983(till '86 served as both HC and AD) have worked a number of positions (administrative) in athletics. Still actively employed here in NY as I decided not to fully retire when my wife died. It keeps me grounded. Seeing the moronic whining of "fans" and the silly perspectives they express are all so familiar.
Trust me when I tell you I should have written a book on what I've experienced with parents and fans.

 

[marshall23]

You should probably start mentally preparing yourself now because Clifford is going to start again this week as the team tries to get to a NY6 bowl.

I sincerely hope Cliff starts if the coaches still feel he is better prepared than Allar. Another reason is I look forward to the fanboy "fallout." Honestly though, I do expect to see more reps for Allar (than before), and that would make sense too.

 

[nittanyfan333]

I heard a rumor they would like to win too.

My only take through this entire thread is that this comment is…




Coaches don’t want to win. What fantasy land are you living in???

 

[PSUSignore]

just like they will turn on Allar once he actually plays enough.

Bingo. Everyone just wants to gripe and complain and they will do the same with the next guy, and the guy after that, and the guy after that, and so on.

 

[Ludd]

I hope they do. I want to live long enough to see the same cretins turn on the next coach.....just like they will turn on Allar once he actually plays enough.

My thoughts exactly…no matter who they hire, the same folks will turn on him as well.

 

[marshall23]

My thoughts exactly…no matter who they hire, the same folks will turn on him as well.

Coaches are not perfect
Players are not perfect
Officials are not perfect

The BWICAC will always be omniscient and omnipotent.

 

[marshall23]

Bingo. Everyone just wants to gripe and complain and they will do the same with the next guy, and the guy after that, and the guy after that, and so on.

I've crossed thousands of bridges in my lifetime. I'll bet I could even draw a pretty good picture of what a bridge should look like. I'd never advise anyone to drive across a bridge I was in charge of building.

 

[Nitt1300]

I've crossed thousands of bridges in my lifetime. I'll bet I could even draw a pretty good picture of what a bridge should look like. I'd never advise anyone to drive across a bridge I was in charge of building.

I'd send a few of our fans over that bridge

 

[Nitt1300]

who will they replace Allar with next year as the annointed one when he makes a mistake and Veilleux has hit the portal?

 

[PSUJam]

who will they replace Allar with next year as the annointed one when he makes a mistake and Veilleux has hit the portal?

I know your post was tongue in cheek but from what I've read Allar and Pribula were even in the Spring but Allar narrowly won out and Pribula redshirted making CV the 3rd string QB this season.

 

[marshall23]

I'd send a few of our fans over that bridge

I've enjoyed them up close and personal from 1971 till 1986 as a coach and from 1983-2009 as an AD.
Here, they're kinda cute.
What they've done booing Sean Clifford is reprehensible, inexcusable and deplorable.

 

[marshall23]

I know your post was tongue in cheek but from what I've read Allar and Pribula were even in the Spring but Allar narrowly won out and Pribula redshirted making CV the 3rd string QB this season.

If CV hits the portal and Allar falters will we see Mcsorely/Stevens, Clifford/Levis revisited? Of course we will,
"The coaches never gave him a chance."

 

[marshall23]

I'd send a few of our fans over that bridge

There aren't enough buses to satisfy me.

 

[PSUJam]

If CV hits the portal and Allar falters will we see Mcsorely/Stevens, Clifford/Levis revisited? Of course we will,
"The coaches never gave him a chance."

You're forgetting about Jaxon Smolik.

 

[marshall23]

You're forgetting about Jaxon Smolik.

Have the coaches ruined him yet?

 

[PSUJam]

Have the coaches ruined him yet?

I'm not sure. Why don't you Tweet at him and ask.

 

[blion72]

His red-shirt was burned.

red shirts do not mean much in modern CFB. if he is what he is supposed to be, he has 2 more years at PSU.

 

[marshall23]

red shirts do not mean much in modern CFB. if he is what he is supposed to be, he has 2 more years at PSU.

Allar and red shirt.....LOL LOL LOL where do these guys come from?
After seeing how Clifford's been treated, why would any QB want to stay here 5 years anyway?

 

[Corner Room Breakfast]

If CV hits the portal and Allar falters will we see Mcsorely/Stevens, Clifford/Levis revisited? Of course we will,
"The coaches never gave him a chance."

Maybe CV is happy here , i wish our fans would stop pushing players in the portal. I can think of several of our players who portaled and failed and those who sat out bowl games and were never drafted.

 

[marshall23]

Maybe CV is happy here , i wish our fans would stop pushing players in the portal. I can think of several of our players who portaled and failed and those who sat out bowl games and were never drafted.

No QB or player for that matter has been happy sitting on the bench......ever.
The difference is that now, players have an option.
No one is pushing anyone to the portal. The players can find it by themselves.