Dan Mullen in discussion with ESPN
- Thread starter fedxdog
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When have we won 8 games other than the 1st year when Dan left us a 10 win team & we screwed it up? We’re winning 4-7 games the last 3 years, not 6-10 like when Dan was here. Dan won 7.67 games per season. Since Dan, we've won 6.25. If you can’t see the difference, I can’t help you.
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I would not want him back at this moment, in August 22. If the Air Raid gamble doesn't pay off by end of 2023, I'd want him back - or a similar style coach.
You counting 2020 in your win averages is disingenuous at best. We’ve won 7 regular season games per year from 2018-2021 in the 3 normal football seasons that don’t involve a 10-game all-SEC schedule. And that’s with 2 coaching changes over that time. Mullen won 8, 5, and 8 regular season games in the 3 full seasons prior to those seasons (average of 7 wins per year). That’s with Mullen having the advantage of having all his own players and about as much coaching staff consistency as you can ask for.
Bowl games shouldn’t really even be considered. They haven’t been relevant in years with all the opt outs, coaching changes, and everything else. Also, Leach’s SEC record in his first 26 SEC games is the exact same as Mullen’s was in his first 26 SEC games.
We’re more or less in the same spot, but with even more disadvantages now with the NIL and the portal era likely crippling us. But even with all that, two coaching changes, and a complete 180 in offensive philosophy and personnel, we aren’t any worse.
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Unfortunately, 2020 and bowl games did happen. You can't just exclude them because they don't fit your narrative. Just like you can't exclude the first 6 years of Mullen's time at Mississippi State. Even doing all that though, we're still worse off now than we were with Mullen. I hope we can't say that by the end of this season, but right now, that's just the fact.
You can’t weigh the 2020 win total average the same as 2009 to 2019 and 2021 and you know that. That’s a 5-7 or 6-6 season in a normal year.
Want to not exclude the first 6 years? Sure. 64 wins in 9 seasons for Mullen. 7.1 regular season wins per year. 3 normal seasons (2 under an awful coach) since he left - 7 regular season wins per year. Want to split hairs about 0.1 wins per year then be my guest.
The point is trying to make all the years as comparable as possible, to get the best possible apples to apples comparison. Come on man, you know that. In no way is 3-7 in 2020 the same as any other year. At best, you take the SEC win %, which is 30%. Compare that to a typical year and you're 2-6 or 3-4 in the SEC, with likely 3-4 more OOC wins. Let's just take worst case scenario and say 5-7 (but most likely 6-6). Danny Boy did that more than a few times, didn't he?
Bottom line, Danny Boy did pretty well. Slophead underachieved with the roster, but still did OK as far as wins and losses. Leach has gone the equivalent of 5-7 and then 7-5. If he wins 8 or 9 this year, he's basically just like Danny.
Danny's a good coach. Likewise, Leach is a good coach. Slophead wasn't. It's that simple.
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Not to knock him or to argue against him being a good coach, but that wasn't him adapting. That was his system doing what it's best at, which is taking advantage of a strong running QB, and him doing a very good job at developing his QBs in addition to doing a good job coaching his system. Him adapting was when he had Tyler Russel, but it's hard to tell how good he did at that because we just didn't have an SEC quality receiving corps those years.
Mullen was a really good coach and a really good fit for us. He just wasn't quite elite. I think if he had gone to Florida after 2009 before he got a little burned out, he would have done better there. He just wasn't hungry enough to put up with the ******** at that point.
I guess trask is a fluke. That passing offense in 15 with dak and with trask was pretty damn good . The relf coast offense wasn't his offense either. Remember all those fullback sets? Or how about the pistol. Dan used all kinds of different stiles in the last 12 years from when he first became a head coach
Yes, he had two good passing offenses with NFL draft picks at QB. A lot of Dak’s draft stock was based on Mullen’s development, but he didn’t do nearly as much with Trask.
Yeah I don't really understand what people are talking about when they say a "Mullen Offense" because truth be known the offense was different pretty much every year he was here. He obvious wanted to run a power spread and preferred a mobile QB because who doesn't? I think about the most accurate things you can say about Mullen is that he was an offensive guy with a QB-coaching specialty, and he was also a very good fundamental coach. He was NOT a 'system' coach. That is Leach, Moorhead and Kiffin (or Rich Rod, Malzahn, or the triple option guys, or Lincoln Riley). Spurrier was kind of a hybrid, he started adapting big-time at South Carolina. Does running the QB up the middle over and over again sound like a "system"? Not to me. He did it because it was common sense and helped us get first downs.
Hell our offense wasn't terrible with Tyson Lee, but admittedly that was compared to the Croom Coast Offense.
He would not stay "engaged" with us (again) for Round 2 for half as long as Round 1. He was looking for greener pastures from the day he arrived in Starkvegas. So how silly/stupid/foolish do we look if we bite for Round 2, and then he leaves - AGAIN - for greener, greener pastures? Just as in the old saying - fool me once . . . . . we all know how the rest goes.
Coaches will always do that at Mississippi Stste unless they are brain dead and not worth a damn, they are ready to retire. Pretty much everyone does that in their career especially if they have been at a place for so long. Have none of you tried to go to what most would consider a more premier job with more money, more prestige, and more of a chance to succeed at the highest level? He didn't win a division title with us in 9 years but did it in less than 4 at Florida. I don't fault him in doing so. He was a great coach for us. I still think he is. I think he got frustrated with Florida in the end and expectations there and yes that's his fault. I still think he would be a great coach at the right fit school. I believe a school like state does well with the way he recruits because he is a developmental coach. He isn't a stars snd sunshine guy. He likes the camera snd to talk but he isn't going to coddle players or recruits or tickle the cigar boys balls. He's a yankee *** but sometimes that works.
If leach were to retire or not work out I would talk to him. Didn't say I would hire him. But we could do much worse. He understands what works for us and our recruiting area. I would tsk a coach that understands to adapt to your talent on O and coach that understands defense first
If leach were to retire or not work out I would talk to him. Didn't say I would hire him. But we could do much worse. He understands what works for us and our recruiting area. I would tsk a coach that understands to adapt to your talent on O and coach that understands defense first
He was an ***. Thought he wrote the book on football.
He did help put us on the map again, and I am grateful for that, but I don't have to like him.
Leach is much more likeable and entertaining for sure.
Google "Urban Meyer Utah Playbook" and download it. Just about every play that Mullen ran at MSU is in that playbook. Even the passing plays he called with Tyler Russell.
I don't consider turning the pages of your old, dusty playbook "adapting" but maybe that is just semantics.
Moorhead and Leach didn't adapt either, but at least Moorhead's playbook was new enough to be sold back at the end of the semester.
I thought Mullen's strengths at State were being able to recruit undervalued players and develop them, and getting the fan base to buy in. Those skills are unnecessary at top tier programs.
OTOH, those skills might be very valuable in the NIL era. I don't want Mullen back, but I wouldn't be upset if thats where we landed.
He won games. More than Leach (so far at least). The rest of that stuff I couldn't care less about. Nick Saban's an ***. I'd sure as hell love him if he were our coach though.
Saban has won multiple National Championships. Mullen couldn't even get us to the SEC Championship game, something Jackie did.
Jackie lost 5 games that year in a very weak SEC West that Mullen never had the chance to coach in. Mullen has won more than any coach we've had since McKeen. If that's not enough for you, you should probably find another team to support cause we're not likely to ever do much, if any, better in football than he did here.
So you are making things more comparable by recognizing (accurately) that the SEC West wasn't as hard when Jackie was here? But yet you can't make that same modification for the case where we were comparing 2020?
One of teams the SEC added to the schedule in 2020 was Vanderbilt. And we dropped a game at a tough NC State team. So, if you want to make 2020 comparable, add 3 wins and a loss for the OOC games and drop a win and a loss for UGA & Vandy. 3-7 becomes 5-7, and we're probably not bowl eligible so take away the Tulsa win. Still doesn't change the fact that results since Mullen have been less than results with Mullen.
Mullen was 5-7 a couple of times, including his first year. But most likely we would have been 6-6 in 2020 with a normal schedule (as proven by the bowl game taking us). So that's an equivalent regular season 13 wins for Leach. Same as Mullen in 2009 and 2010.
None of this matters. Leach's legacy will be born out in the next 2 years. But nobody in their right mind can truly say Mullen is a better coach than Leach right now. They are both damn good.
Most coaches don't check out on their current team until they actually have their next job. Mullen checked out on us a few times when he didn't already have that next job. He was a very good coach who had his flaws and I appreciate what he did for MSU overall. I'd take another coach like him in a heartbeat. I wouldn't take him back though. It wouldn't be the disaster Polk II was, but it wouldn't be as good as the first time either.
MSU is my school, I spent 4 years there, Degree on my wall and all. I can ***** and moan all I want. I don't like Dan and never did, even when he was in SVegas.
Luckily I have the Denver Broncos(season tickets) I can ***** and moan about too.
Isn't this why SPS was formed to begin with.
Fine with me. Just seems kind of miserable to be bitching about our football coach every fall for 60+ years. Although, to be fair, the majority of those seasons were pretty miserable anyway and yet we're still here. In some ways to be a Mississippi State fan is to be a glutton for punishment.
By Mullen's own admission he had "taken this program as far as he could." I appreciate what he did for us but based on that statement alone I would not want him back. I would want a coach who could take us to the next level, if possible, but I sure as hell don't want a coach who didn't think he could take us to the next level.
Based on Eggs Bowls, how can you like Mullinz?
He shopped for a job the last couple of games each year. He directly was responsible for us losing 3 EB's while he was here because he was shopping around.
And for those who think he was our greatest coach ever, they never knew about Allyn McKeen
He shopped for a job the last couple of games each year. He directly was responsible for us losing 3 EB's while he was here because he was shopping around.
And for those who think he was our greatest coach ever, they never knew about Allyn McKeen
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