Basketball team voted to join local union. This could get very interesting interesting. Certainly a slippery slope for the college landscape.
Dartmouth
- Thread starter Viennacock
- Start date
I know back in the day when it appeared I might be considered an employee of the company I represented instead of an independent contractor,we fought it like crazy.I'm afraid these players are going to find that even with a union negotiated contract these schools will be able to exercise a lot more control over them.All the power had shifted to the athletes with the court cases we've had lately so I hope this doesn't blow up on them.
Let me say I'm not a lawyer so I might be missing something.
Let me say I'm not a lawyer so I might be missing something.
What's odd about Dartmouth is that it was ruled that they could unionize because of the control the coach has over the team. Had nothing to do with NIL or scholarships.
They just want their piece of that Dartmouth basketball money! Just give them their $3 and be done with it.
Yea, I wonder what the end-game is with this group specifically. They are non-scholarship athletes, in a program that will never turn a profit. I would suspect that the program is almost wholly subsidized through non-commercial means. As in, ticket sales, advertising, tv revenue, etc. probably doesn't even make up 10% of their budget. They are a high school team in all respects. Which makes me wonder if high school teams can unionize after this.
Are the graduate assistants/research assistants at Dartmouth unionized? They should probably get their piece of the royalty money the school brings in.
Agreed. Coaches at the high school level and even younger aren't much different than college coaches in terms of control. Can high school kids sue because of child labor laws (if they are considered employees)?
They should shut down the program. Save money and all this B.S. At the end of the day, that's what some of these program may do.
It could be an academic social experiment. It might have been suggested to them by an outside entity.
We might even do that, once the final necessary person is convinced that we will never win big in a system where the most money wins.
And go back to being strictly an academic institution? Sacrilege!
Not sure about Dartmouth, but the graduate students and some other people at many major institutions in high COL areas have unionized. It is clear that academic types are exploited and are really employees working >1.0 FTE without equal benefits and rights. Medical residents are in the same boat but I have never yet heard of them unionizing.
You could be right - because these kids have to be smart enough to know that money is not going to follow. And if the rest of the college sports world follows suit (which does seem like the only way that you can have uniform rules across the country - through collective bargaining with a union), then they'll go down as sports pioneers.
If they are considered employees of the school then...
Seriously. If I were Dartmouth, why not? Of what value is their basketball program? If I were the school, I'd just say, "ok, fine, we're eliminating the basketball program. Problem solved."
From the link above, it seems they are required to keep the team.
“Unlike other institutions where athletics generates millions of dollars in net revenue, the costs of Dartmouth’s athletics program far exceed any revenue from the program – costs that Dartmouth bears as part of our participation in the Ivy League,” a Dartmouth spokesperson said in an email to Fortune.
Not sure what that means though. Are they required to keep a team to remain part of the conference?
Yeah, I don't know about that. I wouldn't draw that conclusion from that quote, but it might be true nonetheless.
Ivy League schools notably don't offer athletic scholarships. If unionization forces that to happen, I can't imagine what the consequences would be. Those schools obviously have plenty of money, but it's largely earmarked for academics.
Conferences do have requirements on the number of teams a school must sponsor in order to be a part of the conference. I'm not sure what the Ivy standard is. But the Ivy League itself is so tied to athletics between the schools, I can't see any school dropping a major sport.
All that said, I don't think this will have much of an effect on the Ivy system. As was mentioned, none of these athletes are on scholarship to participate in sports. All scholarships are need based. The schools just hold these positions on the teams for anyone that wishes to play sports at the school. I feel like athletics are more akin to work-study for Ivy athletes.
But the athletes may be unionizing in order to force athletic scholarships. That's part of the deal.
I'm sure Dartmouth is just the canary here.
They have nothing to unionize over. The average annual salary for Dartmouth's men's sports coaches is $133k. Median household income in Hanover, NH is $136k. It's not like coaches pulling down 8 figure salaries.
They have nothing to unionize over. The average annual salary for Dartmouth's men's sports coaches is $133k. Median household income in Hanover, NH is $136k. It's not like coaches pulling down 8 figure salaries.
If the university refuses, what do the players do, strike? If I were Dartmouth I would reject whatever demand the "union" made and force the team to strike and then have a lockout. It is a rare situation where the "employer" can make money by shutting down operations.
Really good point. What will be the players' ultimate recourse? Strikes are effective b/c they harm the bottom line for ownership. Not the case here.
They and the schools will sign contracts so players will be in line payouts if they're fired without "cause". Lawsuit City.If they are considered employees of the school then...
They wouldn't want to appear "repressive". They are Ivy League. "Workers Unite".
I think it simply means they are willing to bear the cost of the program to be able to compete in the Ivy League.
The key line: and athletic pursuit is part of the educational experience.
For the Ivy's, it really is no different than a theater or dance student putting on a performance on campus. And really, those kids should also understand that if those spots weren't held open for athletes, none would be attending Dartmouth. It's the school's attempt to have a well-rounded student body, and college experience. Where you can root for your school, or see a play done by your classmates.
Completely agree....and you will see this phrase or a similar one (along with the emphasis on amateur) in all the tax court decisions that are ruled in favor of the Universities.....one reason that all these changes concern me so much.
Start taking away the perks for these spoiled players. They'll change their tune real quick.
What perks? They are more regular students on that level......this is no where near the Div I level type athlete.
Weight room, decent locker rooms, decent busses, paid coaches etc are all perks. I played jr. College basketball my first two years. We were on a low to no budget. Trust me, it could be much worse than what they are dealing with. Treat them like a club team.
All that said, I'm sure the union would get involved over WORKING CONDITIONS.
Well, yeah, you could end the program for sure.....which is what you are describing. I played JUCO baseball....and you are right, there were no perks....no special meal plans, had access to the same tutors the other srudents had, no special dorms, nothing outside what was necessary to field a team. I don't really consider those "perks" though.
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I agree with you. Take away the things you note and if the union complains, shrug and say "too bad". If the union strikes, simply disband the basketball team, the equivalent of a company closing.
If I were Dartmouth, I'd disband the team immediately. There is no law forcing a college to have a basketball team.
You don't have to disband the team once you have already disbanded it....which no coaches, no transportation, no training facilities would do. Those aren't perks....those are the minimum necessary to field a team.
We did have sports dorm. The basketball team and the rodeo team. This was down in Texas. Decent busses, locker rooms etc would have been perks for us. It was bad. We took two vans to each game with the coach driving one and myself driving the other. I was the only player in the 2nd van sober or not high. They other straight players rode with coach. It was like a Cheech n Chong movie for sure. Great memories!