There were some wide open receivers and I hope it's just because we changed our offensive approach to utilize Will's skillset.
Did we turn a corner on offense or was South Carolina that bad defensively?
- Thread starter dawgstudent
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I'm afraid to be positive. Need to get this Bama beat down behind us and Western MI. It seems that we won't have any better idea about any of this until Arky on 10/21. Nearly a month away from knowing if we really suck, or kinda suck...
Cocky sold out for the run. If they'd have played base defense who knows what actually happens.
Carolina adjusted some by middle of 3rd quarter. Our last 5 drives produced only 6 points. We're going to have to be able to establish a running game in the SEC if we want to be able to continue to score points.
I'm usually not this negative, but I think they are that bad on defense. And somehow, we are worse.
And to everyone saying "well, we have just played a couple of really good quarterbacks"... I say what scares me is it's actually 3 similar QB's so far - none of whom are that great. And more coming up. You have to have a mobile quarterback in this era of the SEC.
Nearly every SEC school has figured that out.
Bad defense… if teams decide to play us man to man with no safety help, tulu is going to burn them at least a couple times a game. Now with that said, it was encouraging to see Will be accurate (for the most part) and stand tall in the pocket. Also, the offensive line was good enough for the most part, although not good. Still think this offense will struggle against defenses that decide to make us drive the field to beat them. We are too bad at executing the offense to consistently drive the field. Teams with good defensive coaches will be a problem
I think a combination. They aren't as awful on defense as we are, but still pretty rotten. Until we can provide a legitimate rushing threat to take pressure off the passing good defenses are gonna be able to shut us down.
If future opponents are gonna double or triple Tulu we need to exploit that. Zavion and Creed have the speed to make them pay if they focus on Tulu.
If future opponents are gonna double or triple Tulu we need to exploit that. Zavion and Creed have the speed to make them pay if they focus on Tulu.
I hate this general statement. Are you telling me that Trevor Lawrence, Tua Tagovailoa or Eli Manning would not succeed in this era of the SEC? That's silliness.
The ability to throw accurately and quickly is still the most coveted QB skill.
They sold out for the run stop but as the game went on they got out of man as evidenced by the double coverage on Tulu. That slowed our roll but Will showed some balls and dropped it in anyway. Our line can not run block against what is not a good defensive front. Barely pass blocked but it was serviceable. Bama will dominate our OL which will lead to zero run game and no time for Will. So next Sunday he will be the worst QB in history in all you fans eyes. Obviously Millroe will destroy our porous defense and look like a Heisman candidate.
I do not expect Saban to allow Tulu to run free across the secondary while Will has time to play fake, take a beat and heave it downfield. My guess is we look much more like we did against LSU this Saturday.
Trevor Lawrence was VERY mobile. But your point still stands.
I mean they’re not particularly good on defense but we did put up more yards on them than UNC and Georgia did. More points than Georgia as well.
We’ll get our answer this weekend when a middle of the pack Bama defense completely shuts us down again. I’m going with 10 pts, and that may be optimistic
The days of Tolu running free while the defense is playing 8 in the box are over forever. That ended late in the 3rd quarter Saturday. Everyone knows they'll have to account for him from here on out.
Turned a corner. South Carolina isn’t any worse than we are defensively….the season will bear out that they are actually much better I would imagine. Stats make them appear worse now because they’ve played a much tougher schedule.
More proof - on the road we scored 6 more points than #1 UGA did against the same defense at home, and only 1 fewer point than #15 UNC did at a neutral site with a Top 5 pick at QB.
Yeah but we also have Robinson, Thomas, Walley (where da fook has he been?), Mosley, Harmon, Roberson, Whittemore, Bellzar. There's going to be someone open.
Why aren't we constantly using this obvious strength of the team?
That’s just a list of average-as-17 wide receivers that will not be able to beat press coverage the same way that Tulu can.
Mosley specifically was very disappointing down the stretch against USC….couldn’t reel in either of 2 very catchable balls on the final drive where we had a chance to keep it close. Either could have swung the game for us if he brought it in.
Walley’s entire career has been a giant disappearing act.
Robinson / Zavion are decent but not great, just-a-guy type players who no DC is going to be that worried about scheming around.
Harmon’s more or less TE who occasionally lines up at WR.
Whittemore was MIA between SE LA and the 4th quarter against USC. Good hands but limited athletically in what he can do against the Bama’s / LSU’s of the world.
Roberson / Bellzar, please.
We have Tulu and the usual MSU WR mediocrity behind him. But, that’s still more than we usually have at the WR position. If Tulu gets shadowed by multiple defenders, the way we take advantage is in the running game and checkdowns on his side of the field. Run him on clear out routes and attack the void behind him. I still don’t expect that much success against Bama, but we have some pieces to work with in the remaining 7 games.
I understand your point and generally agree with it. All 3 of those QBs would be more than fine in today’s SEC. However, I do think a pocket QB does need a good offensive line and receivers to get open.
I think the thought process of MSU is better with a mobile QB is accurate. We are at a talent disadvantage against most SEC teams and it is helpful to make the defense have to account for the QB. But I’m not arguing your point at all. All 3 of those QBs would still be very good on most any team.
Eli no. Tua is mobile. There is a reason Eli is at the house and has been for a while. Game has evolved. Trevor Lawrence moves better than you think. He also has a cannon for an arm. Mac Jones struggles. Daniel Jones struggles. Burrow can move if he has too but not as well. You don't have to be a speedster or pure runner but you have to be able to move and throw on the run. Move to escape pass rush. Fronts are so fast. Better qbs can create or extend plays by moving. Even guys like Pickett and Hebert can move out of the pocket and through the pocket very well and run past the first down.Trevor Lawrence ran zone read in college quite well. I can send highlight reels of them doing it. Will did a little better at this Saturday, but he doesn't scare anyone running it and not very big to take hits. He played very well though in an offense that suits him. It's just very one dimensional.
I would agree for will need to spread it out.
we gonna have to start scoring 50 points s game as bad as the defense is
We found some things that work. We also stepped on our dicc$ a few times. We had 480 yds passing, and we had threats running the ball. This should give the Bama DC more problems than in the run-only or pass-only offenses we had in the past. We ran the offense a little different Saturday night. We did not try to hit South Carolina straight in the mouth and disguised many of our plays. I'm hoping that the LSU game show does that we can't do that against teams like LSU or Alabama.
Our biggest problem is our defense. I have no ideas what to do there except maybe try some new blood in the secondary, and I don't know how much that would help.
Our biggest problem is our defense. I have no ideas what to do there except maybe try some new blood in the secondary, and I don't know how much that would help.
100% agree on MSU. And if anything, we need to lean further to the 'run' side of dual threat. The only reason I push back on it this particular year, is obviously because we are set up for Air Raid.
That's also why I didn't like the hire of Leach when we did it. But we are where we are now.
I would counter with the fact that Mac, Daniel, Burrow, etc. are at least NFL QBs. That means they are pretty good and valuable. And in the NFL, as we all know, the QB run gets diminished even further due to injury. Even Cam Newton got his career cut short, and he's about as big and strong as they come. We will see how long Jalen Hurts stands up, we all know how strong he is.
But more than anything, this shows that there is a huge scale when it comes to QB mobility. That's why I hate when people put out the blanked 'you must have a mobile QB to win in today's SEC' or some other rigid statement like that.
I would say mobility helps. Can't just be a runner. Can't just a statue either. Balanced player makes best qb. Sometimes Dak isn't the best thrower and that gets him beat but with that line yesterday not being able to move gets him killed. Mac gets killed a lot.
Trevor, the once in a generation talent? Yes, I'm sure he would be okay. And before you ask, I think so would Tim Tebow, Cam Newton, Joe Burrow, Joe Namath, Vince Young, Roger Staubach and Doug Flutie. All would make it just fine in the SEC this year.
Tua had enough mobility. He would be okay too.
Eli Manning, who ran a 5-flat 40 yard dash? No, I don't think his career playing today would go nearly as well as it did 20 years ago. There are offensive lineman running faster than he did every year, not to mention all the DE's. He'd get murdered back there.
I know accuracy and a quick release are QB skills everyone covets. You need both passing AND running skills. At least enough mobility to avoid stupid sacks. I'm not saying you have to have Vick or Manziel back there.
I just don't see that many Dan Marino/Peyton Manning types in the SEC these days, even at Alabama. Saban obviously recognizes it too.
120 in America in defense- SC sucks! But we did open up the play book, so take the positives where you can.
Again, big sliding scale. So much depends on the team, the offense, the passing ability of the QB, the running ability of the QB. I just don't like the general statements when it comes to the most important position on the field.
Hardly any QBs are truly statues, even throughout history. But at the NFL level, throwing accuracy and quickness are skills 1A and 1B. You can have as much mobility as you want, but generally you won't succeed at the highest levels unless other concessions are made elsewhere (such as the Ravens with Jackson and the Eagles with Hurts). Ravens wholesale committed to Jackson, and the Eagles have a superteam. In college, that evens out a little bit, mobility can help a lot more. Down in high school, junior high and youth levels, even moreso. You can rack up wins with an elite run-first QB who just has semi-decent throwing ability in high school. At the youth level, you hardly throw at all.
A fun game for you. One of these career stats below is Eli Manning’s college passing stats. One is somebody else’s. See if you can figure out which is Eli, and who the other one is.
We aren’t going to have anyone else sell out to stop the run like South Carolina did. Most teams will defend us much more balanced. So likely will have less success passing and (hopefully) more success on the ground.
I hope you're right, but I'm expecting everyone else to do exactly what SC did, but with much better defensive backs.
I bet Will's stats show well too. I know he has like 88 TDs. It's just crazy the situation we're in, with the 3rd (or 2nd, or 1st) most prolific passer in SEC history, and because of the unique situation with Leach/Arnett, we don't know whether we should keep starting him or not. Only at State.
Bingo.
In other words, a dude who spent his whole college career being known only as a runner / “dual threat” who was a work in progress as a passer, and was drafted as such…..was not only a better college passer - but a MUCH better college passer than a #1 overall pick from the same league and division.
Dak would have likely shattered every passing record Eli ever had at Ole Miss, if not for the 2013 shoulder nerve injury that kept him from playing 11.5 quarters against Alabama, Arkansas, and Ole Miss….and also not to mention that he wasn’t the starter at the beginning of the year so he missed 3ish quarters against Oklahoma State as well.
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Will’s currently just a tick ahead of Eli in passer rating, largely by virtue of not throwing as many picks and throwing more TD’s. I think Will’s passing TD’s are a bit inflated by some of the Air Raid’s short almost-running-play passes and pop passes near the goal line going to his credit as TD passes. But, throwing 10 fewer picks in almost 400 more attempts is commendable. However, Eli’s got him soundly beat in Y/A which is probably the most important factor in the college passer rating calculation. It could be argued that their college exploits and the value they provided for their teams was similar. OM was a 7-9 win team under Eli (against a much weaker SEC West), while we were the same with Will in the Air Raid. Eli was obviously the better prospect based on arm strength and other things, but he also had quite a but of undue hype just based on the name. His college and NFL numbers were both solid, but still a bit pedestrian compared to the elites in each era.
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I agree! UGA scored 24 on them while we scored 30. The big difference was defense.