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Smoked Toag

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First question I'd ask is how are they paid? If it's mostly federal, just be glad that good paying jobs are available in those areas.
 

Xenomorph

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I don't think you could pay me enough to do it. In those larger districts its an absolute 24/7, every waking minute, somebody wants a piece of your *** job.

Oh.. and you have zero private life. People in those positions can't go to the 17ing grocery store in their flip flops and buy beer without being vilified on Facebook.

No thanks.
 
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GloryDawg

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First question I'd ask is how are they paid? If it's mostly federal, just be glad that good paying jobs are available in those areas.

What I want to know is why are some elected and some appointed. Seems like since it is State and Federal money the position would all be the same.
 

paindonthurt

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There are 3 at least in bolivar county making $360k total managing less than 5000 students

There is one in desoto county making $200k managing 34000 students

Federal, state or local that’s some dumb ****
 

Xenomorph

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Without digging into any of it.. I wonder how the overall expenditures on central office staff compares between Bolivar/Desoto.

I wouldn't be shocked if Desoto is 10X Bolivar... meaning there is a helluva lot more support staff in Desoto while the Bolivar people are shouldering more individual loads.

Again.. I'm open to being wrong about that.
 

paindonthurt

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Well I can look up the revenue/funding per student but I’ll do that tomorrow

But I guarantee you bolívar districts aren’t performing as good as desoto
 

Villagedawg

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None are elected anymore.

What I want to know is why are some elected and some appointed. Seems like since it is State and Federal money the position would all be the same.
State law a few years ago changed that. Used to be county-wide districts were required to be elected.
 

Ernest T

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Where do you think the federal government gets their money? There are too many districts. Until parents are willing to consolidate the problem continues
 

mstateglfr

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Our Sup currently makes $306k per year for a district with over 32000 kids. He has earned every penny and when he leaves in June I am sure his replacement will want more.

I cant imagine being a superintendent and making $85000 per year at 100% district time. 17 that.
 

paindonthurt

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I’m not bitching abt the pay.

But having 3 superintendents for 5000 people is absolutely crazy.
 

Smoked Toag

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Well I can look up the revenue/funding per student but I’ll do that tomorrow

But I guarantee you bolívar districts aren’t performing as good as desoto
Scores shouldn't be the determining factor.

Number of students should be one of the big drivers, however.
 

paindonthurt

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Yes and as I stated first 3 superintendents making $360 plus for less than 5000 students compared to 1 superintendent making $208 with 34000 students

But scores/performance absolutely should matter.
 

mstateglfr

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I’m not bitching abt the pay.

But having 3 superintendents for 5000 people is absolutely crazy.

That seems like about 2 too many.

Holmes has 3, but they are allocated at less than 100% and salary doesn't seem out of line overall.
If they are at partial % and split between districts, is that terrible?

Based only on listed enrollment, it would seem like Quitman and Quitman Country districts could consolidate a bit. Schools could even stay open, but consolidate some admin and services.
I am sure there would be a few like that.
 
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patdog

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A bit confusing, but Quitman and Quitman County are about 200 miles apart. But yeah, when you have over 140 school districts in a small, poor state with only 82 counties, there's plenty of consolidation that's needed.
 

mstateglfr

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Yes and as I stated first 3 superintendents making $360 plus for less than 5000 students compared to 1 superintendent making $208 with 34000 students

But scores/performance absolutely should matter.

I dont see the $360k salaries listed in your link.

As for pay being based on scores, yeah that's a dangerous little path to follow.
Would it be scores compared to prior year's averages? Scores compared to state average? Scores compared to the lowest 25% of a rolling 5 year average?
This is the same issue for when people want teachers to be paid based on testing...they are often times doing damage control and influencing kids as much as possible in the short time they have. Much is largely out of their control.
Because of home life, kids have free breakfast, free lunch, and some have weekend bags...but we are going to base pay on how those kids perform on tests?
^ that is not to say test scores shouldn't matter in any way. They should matter in some way. Making it a hard line seems shortsighted though.
 

mstateglfr

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A bit confusing, but Quitman and Quitman County are about 200 miles apart. But yeah, when you have over 140 school districts in a small, poor state with only 82 counties, there's plenty of consolidation that's needed.

Ha, funny. Des Moines the city and Des Moines the county are like that up here.
 

paindonthurt

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I said scores should matter and they should. They shouldn’t be all that matters.

But improvement is the name of the game. You definitely should be penalized for going down.

And search bolivar country and Cleveland. 3 superintendents making over $360k combined with only 5000 students.
 

paindonthurt

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This is all I’m saying. There is money to be saved and not spent.

I hear a lot of griping about funding education. Well Clinton and Ocean Springs are doing phenomenal with less dollars per student than most other districts.
 

Cooterpoot

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Where do you think the federal government gets their money? There are too many districts. Until parents are willing to consolidate the problem continues

I'll never understand why people think consolidation is the answer. Why should a good school be forced to combine with a bad one? Why should kids have to ride a bus across the county to a school? If we care more about saving a buck, that could be our problem.
 

mstateglfr

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I'll never understand why people think consolidation is the answer. Why should a good school be forced to combine with a bad one? Why should kids have to ride a bus across the county to a school? If we care more about saving a buck, that could be our problem.

It isnt always an issue of consolidating a good school with a bad school. That is not the only reason why consolidation happens. Here, it isnt even really one of the reasons why. The main reason, really the only reason, is to save money thru shared resources.
Some school districts dont have enough kids to even justify a single foreign language teacher. Combine two or three small districts and now you have enough kids for a foreign language teacher to at least come in on half time and share time between districts. <---this isnt some extreme example, it is absolutely reality. The same goes for art, computer sciences, and even traditional science classes. Getting a teacher with a masters or higher to teach chemistry at some small school districts is proving to be basically impossible and instead, the students sit in their lab classroom and learn via live feed link from a teacher at a central location who is teaching multiple schools at the same time.

Consolidating resources can legitimately increase the quality of education offered to students(especially at the HS level).
Keep elementary schools where they are, if possible, which reduces the time younger kids are on a bus. Consolidate JR high into one of the old high schools. Consolidate HS into the high school in the other town. This spreads out education to ensure each town still has a school or two in its town(so it doesnt die too quickly) and places the travel on the older kids who can more easily handle it.

Money saved and education quality increased.
 

SirBarksalot

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Made me look up ours (Charlotte-Mecklenburg).. he makes $288k . 148k students, total **** show of a district. Of course he also has a handful of Lieutenants making $150k+, including Chief Equity Officer making $188k

Wouldnt want any of these jobs.
 
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archdog

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Where do you think the federal government gets their money? There are too many districts. Until parents are willing to consolidate the problem continues

Parents are the issue here. They refuse to discuss consolidation. They want their little Sally and Jimmy to relive their life experiences in the same old run down schools instead of simplifying the districts.
In my opinion, there should be 1 school district per county. None of this city/county stuff. DeSoto and Starkville have it correct.
 

archdog

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Consolidating districts isn’t the same as consolidating schools.

Sure, you consolidate the district first, then run the numbers and consolidate the schools next. IT happens every single time. That is why people fight it. That and they don't want their kids going to school with brown children.
 

paindonthurt

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That might be part of the problem but parents should mostly be blamed for ****** scores.

School districts with the best scores have something in common and it’s not the most funding.
 

paindonthurt

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There are some instances where “brown” schools don’t want to consolidate.

And lots of “brown” schools with more revenue than “white” schools and still doing much worse with scores.

ETA: if you had the option to spend less tax dollars and have better scores, wtf would you choose the other option?
 

mstateglfr

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Parents are the issue here. They refuse to discuss consolidation. They want their little Sally and Jimmy to relive their life experiences in the same old run down schools instead of simplifying the districts.
In my opinion, there should be 1 school district per county. None of this city/county stuff. DeSoto and Starkville have it correct.

My wife works for a non-profit that helps school boards stay compliant with laws. They write policy for boards to adopt, train boards on how to conduct legal meetings, troubleshoot all the crazy issues boards deal with, etc.
Consolidation has come up multiple times in meetings that my wife has been present at and the passion and emotion that bubble to the surface during those meetings is strong.
Its really crazy because some guy doesnt want a high school to consolidate because he played on the 1994 football team that qualified for state. Not won state, but qualified for state. That isnt a 17ing hypothetical, it actually happened. He wanted his kids to go to a school that lacked resources instead of consolidating and having better access to education because the high school would be in the town 8mi away at what was once a rival.
Didnt give a 17 about educational opportunities, didnt give a 17 about reducing expenses, only cared about legacy. And it was a ****** legacy to care about.
This wasnt a unique situation, multiple people spoke up and its the same thing at each consolidation discussion.

But as mentioned, district consolidation doesnt mean all schools must consolidate too. A district can just run 2 high schools, 3 middle schools, and 4 elementary schools or whatever the amounts are after consolidation.
The district we enroll our kids into has 5 high schools, 11 middle schools, and 38 elementary schools. It is possible for multiple schools to exist at the same level within a district. I dont know why some seem to think this isnt possible.


I do disagree with you that 1 school district per county is the correct approach.
- setting boundaries shouldnt be based on district when towns can straddle multiple counties.
- this can be a good idea for rural or semi-rural counties, but not necessarily heavily populated counties.

An aside- where I grew up, school districts were based on the education level. Elementary and middle schools were in a district and high schools were in a different district. The lower district serves 6 elementary schools and 2 middle schools.
The upper district serves 6 high schools across 6 neighboring towns and 7 lower districts feed into those 6 high schools. This setup allows for better focus- one district can focus on the needs of younger children and the other can focus on the needs of older teens. It works well because the population density is high enough to support that model.

Lastly, and this will be unpopular here, school funding should not be based on property tax. Sorry, it just shouldnt. Admittedly, this is where something like county based districts could help smooth the wild differences in funding between neighboring districts.
 

PirateDawg

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To add to what you said which I agree with: How would a low scoring school district ever find a qualified superintendent with those rules imposed? Too much "teaching to the test" goes on now. The kids learn what they need to pass the test and 3 months later they have forgotten it. The whole system needs to be revamped in my personal opinion. Let's quit forcing round pegs through square holes!

We have too many school districts in MS in my humble opinion. Consolidation would save the state tons of money on administrations and allow the teachers to get pay raises.
 

mstateglfr

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I said scores should matter and they should. They shouldn’t be all that matters.

But improvement is the name of the game. You definitely should be penalized for going down.

And search bolivar country and Cleveland. 3 superintendents making over $360k combined with only 5000 students.

Again, what students score is based in part on the school side of their life and also largely based on their life out of school.
If a couple of years of 3rd graders doing well on a test is followed by a couple of years of 3rd graders doing poorly, is that really the fault of the Superintendent and indicative of their inability to do their job? Maybe its a couple years of some dummy kids and the staff as well as administration has actually done an incredible job to coach up those kids to get those scores.
 

Smoked Toag

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You think the lieutenants making $150k are working a hard 45 hours a week?
Therein lies the problem. You are just jealous. You have no idea what goes into those salaries (and neither do I, I'm not in education). But I don't begrudge anyone by going out and getting what they are worth.

Now, if there is some fraud going on, or some buddy-hiring, etc., that's a different story. But if a district wants to pay someone big to do a job, I would probably ask why, but I'm not going to go disparaging the superintendent's names in the name of dumb conservatism, when the money saved would just be wasted elsewhere.

Nobody wants to waste money wasted, but your attitude is what the problem is here.
 
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