Does FSU's loss to GT validate their exclusion from the last playoffs?

[RiverCityDawg]

missing a player should not matter. You shouldn't only get to count the games where your team is 100% healthy.

Not just "a player", the starting quarterback. Again, the task is picking the "best". Was Florida State one of the 4 best teams with their backup QB? The committee didn't think so and they were probably right. It sucks for FSU, but that's the way it works (or worked).

 

[HuntDawg]

When you think too much, you start coming up with stuff like this. You're in a power conference and go undefeated with 2 big time P5 OOC wins, you should get in.

How silly would it have been for LSU to get in over West Virginia or Mizzou in 2007, had the latter two not lost on the last weekend?

How silly would it have been for Florida to get in over USC in 2006, had USC not lost on the last weekend?

How silly would it have been for Alabama to get in over Oklahoma State in 2011, had Oklahoma State not lost to Iowa State late in the year?

I could go on and on. You don't leave out Power teams with better records (especially if undefeated), unless there is a COMPELLING reason to do so.

Again.. ive said they had a playoff resume. The problem is 4 other teams did as well. One team had to be left out. The two teams that werent getting left out were Michigan and Alabama.

The other 3, they had to pick apart many different ways. You obviously have your way of doing it, the committee had theirs. It was widely debated, lots of good points on both sides.... however it was far from the biggest screw job ever. Any team that was left out last year would have felt that way... but unfortunately that was the model.

 

[MSUDAWGFAN]

Im talking last year as well. The power 5 was the power 5... but again the ACC was rated closer to the sun belt than the Big10 or SEC, meaning the ACC champ was the weakest conference champion..... so even though there was still a power 5 on paper.. the ACC was the/a distant 5th, and i think the committee weighed that in.

And when splitting hairs, i can see why/how that would matter

You mean like when Clemson absolutely mauled Alabama in the championship game? How many championships did they win? And tat's a G6 conference?

Texas beat Alabama AT Alabama. By double digits. And they had the same record, so yes Texas belonged. That wasn't even a question.

 

[RiverCityDawg]

A P5 team with a loss.


When are you going to define it? Because we can probably hand the trophy to Georgia or Ohio State right now, and not even play the season. We know they are the best.

Not my job to define it, I'm not on the committee. But if I'm going by "best" like what they were doing, I would say it's - based on everything I've seen on the field throughout the season, if you power rated the teams based who would be most likely to win against the others, I would take that top four.

Again, what you don't seem to grasp is I'm explaining how it worked not how it should be, so I'm not going to explain it further.

 

[HuntDawg]

You mean like when Clemson absolutely mauled Alabama in the championship game? How many championships did they win? And tat's a G6 conference?

Texas beat Alabama AT Alabama. By double digits. And they had the same record, so yes Texas belonged. That wasn't even a question.

last year my friend. The ACC was rated metrically as the 5th best conference in college football top to bottom... and their rating was closer to the sun belt than the sec or big 10.

In other words... it was a distant 5th.... the gap was that wide.... This wasnt the old ACC.

Again there were 5 deserving conference champions. The conference championship of the most difficult conferences were not going to be left out... that was Michigan and Alabama. They went undefeated in the most difficult conferences in football. How you wanted to cut and slice the other 3... were widely debated with good points all around.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Not my job to define it, I'm not on the committee. But if I'm going by "best" like what they were doing, I would say it's - based on everything I've seen on the field throughout the season, if you power rated the teams based who would be most likely to win against the others, I would take that top four.

Again, what you don't seem to grasp is I'm explaining how it worked not how it should be, so I'm not going to explain it further.

I get what you're saying. But how anyone could define best in that way, is the whole point here.

Youre argument about the reality of what the committee did is irrelevant. They were stupid.

 

[MSUDAWGFAN]

last year my friend. The ACC was rated metrically as the 5th best conference in college football top to bottom... and their rating was closer to the sun belt than the sec or big 10.

In other words... it was a distant 5th.... the gap was that wide.... This wasnt the old ACC.

Again there were 5 deserving conference champions. The conference championship of the most difficult conferences were not going to be left out... that was Michigan and Alabama. They went undefeated in the most difficult conferences in football. How you wanted to cut and slice the other 3... were widely debated with good points all around.

Miami won it when they were in the Big East. And noone thought the Big East was the best conference or anywhere near the top. They were widely considered the worst "Power Conference".

My point is that the best team doesn't have to be in a great conference.

Take UNLV in basketball in the early 1990's.

Clemson wasn't in the best conference, but they were sure better than Alabama and everyone else those years.

You take the teams with the best resumes. If you think Alabama was one of those, then fine. I do not. If they had beaten Texas, then yes they would have. But how it played out, you had to leave 2 out of Michigan, Texas, Washington, Alabama, FSU, and Georgia out.

And I am an SEC fan, but I can also be a realist. In this case, the teams that should have been left out were Georgia and Alabama.

 

[HuntDawg]

I get what you're saying. But how anyone could define best in that way, is the whole point here.

Youre argument about the reality of what the committee did is irrelevant. They were stupid.

so the committee didnt define it the way GOAT preferred.. so they are stupid....

This is really a discussion that has been beaten into the ground... this is one of those topics were every side had a valid case. Someone had to be left out because 5 doesnt go into 4. Far from the biggest travesty or screw job or whatever other terms have been thrown around... in sports however... and all P5 commisioners knew what could happen when they agreed to this playoff.

 

[HuntDawg]

Miami won it when they were in the Big East. And noone thought the Big East was the best conference or anywhere near the top. They were widely considered the worst "Power Conference".

My point is that the best team doesn't have to be in a great conference.

Take UNLV in basketball in the early 1990's.

Clemson wasn't in the best conference, but they were sure better than Alabama and everyone else those years.

You take the teams with the best resumes. If you think Alabama was one of those, then fine. I do not. If they had beaten Texas, then yes they would have. But how it played out, you had to leave 2 out of Michigan, Texas, Washington, Alabama, FSU, and Georgia out.

And I am an SEC fan, but I can also be a realist. In this case, the teams that should have been left out were Georgia and Alabama.

couldnt disagree more.. but thats what makes sports fun.

 

[MSUDAWGFAN]

couldnt disagree more.. but thats what makes sports fun.

Oh yeah, that FSU team went 2-0 against the Mighty SEC last year. So I'd say they more than could have held their own.

 

[NTDawg]

I had a problem with a four-team playoff but given a crappy format, I could not get worked up about FSU being left out. Having said that this year's loss does not validate them being left out. However, I hope it means that we will stop hearing from their fans. However, it hasn't stopped Danny Kanell, and he is the worst sports media personality other than Skip Bayless.

 

[HuntDawg]

Oh yeah, that FSU team went 2-0 against the Mighty SEC last year. So I'd say they more than could have held their own.

beat an LSU team that Alabama beat and UGA beat a Florida team that was at the bottom of the standings.

wonder how they would have faired had they had to play the #1, 3, 9, 12, 17 teams in the country as well.

Again can go around and around. The committee had a tough decision to make. I can see why the left out FSU

 

[Perd Hapley]

Do you think FSU would have been kept in if their QB didn’t get hurt. I do and that goes against the principle of merit based selection vs talent based.

I don’t think they would. They played a crap schedule in a crap league and had nothing close to the quality of wins that the 4 selected teams had. That was a much bigger indictment than anything related to the QB.

 

[MSUDAWGFAN]

beat an LSU team that both Alabama and UGA beat a Florida team that was at the bottom of the standings.

wonder how they would have faired had they had to play the #1, 3, 9, 12, 17 teams in the country as well.

Again can go around and around. The committee had a tough decision to make. I can see why the left out FSU

If you want to talk about conferences, last year the ACC went 6-4 against the SEC.

Yeah, Alabama beat Florida. So? FSU did as well. And FSU didn't struggle in their rivalry game (without their QB) like Alabama did.

And LSU went 10-3 and 6-3 in conference, so they were one of the better teams in the SEC. Yes, FSU would have done well.

 

[johnson86-1]

How do you decide who the best 4 teams are other than the results of the games played?

A 12 game season without a lot of crossover and with home field advantage being a big thing is not going to allow you to determine the 4 best teams based off of overall record. Usually there is going to be a clear line somewhere, maybe between the best team and the next three best teams, maybe the top two teams look similar and then there is a drop to get to the next four teams, or whatever combination.

Last year, I think there wasn't a lot of separation between at least the top 5 teams, and possibly not between the top 6 although there's not a strong objective case that FSU belonged with the other five. UGA, Bama, Texas, WSU and Michigan were clearly all close enough that any of them could have probably lost to any other one on any given night.

I would probably agree with the committee that FSU wasn't one of the four best teams, but again, you can't really prove it and I think that's why you should go off most deserving resume first, then use who is best as a tie breaker. Last year, FSU went undefeated against a weak ACC but they scheduled two SEC schools OOC that are traditionally good teams. I don't think you can penalize them when they voluntarily scheduled LSU while also having UF on the schedule. They should have been a shoe in with Michigan. After that, I think UW also deserves to be in. Their OOC was Boise St, Tulsa, and the other MSU. That's not a great OOC schedule, but they have 9 conference games and schedule one out of 3 OOC against a decent Big10 school, and the two G5 schools are respectable G5 schools. I think that's enough.

At that point, you can toss a coin between UGA, Bama, and UTexas. None of them could really complain about getting left out, but each of them could complain about getting left out over another team. If you want to go off of best win, UT at Bama or Bama against UGA give you the best win. If you want to go off of least bad loss, it's UGA then Bama. UGA has a case that they are the only school that made it undefeated in the regular season and shouldn't be penalized for a championship game when the resumes are that close. But I think if somebody plays in a more or less big boy conference and at least makes an effort to schedule decent OOC competition, I don't think you can penalized an undefeated team because you think a one loss team is better.

Somewhat off topic, if you go by most deserving resume, OSU loses one of their championships because while they were the best team at the end of the year, they had a bad loss (I think to like a 6-6 Va tech team?) that made their resume undeserving of a spot in the playoffs.

 

[HuntDawg]

If you want to talk about conferences, last year the ACC went 6-4 against the SEC.

Yeah, Alabama beat Florida. So? FSU did as well. And FSU didn't struggle in their rivalry game (without their QB) like Alabama did.

And LSU went 10-3 and 6-3 in conference, so they were one of the better teams in the SEC. Yes, FSU would have done well.

Again the acc was the worst power 5 conference last year. There isn’t any denying that..

the sec was the best. Your going to leave out a team that had 5 top 20 wins, including the 1 team in the country.. and their only loss was to a playoff team

to put a team in that played in basically no one and whose biggest win of the season was lsu in a neutral site while playing a bunch of no bodies?

ok. I mean I’ve said everyone gets their own opinion. I’m not saying yours is wrong, but I agree with what the committee did.. and I can see why the did what they did

 

[She Mate Me]

You know it's past time for actual college football to get rolling when the SPS GrumpSquad is having an argument they've played out multiple times since last season, in a thread that was only tangentially about the subject they're now brain brawling over.

ETA Goat, you're wrong, but I'm not about to enter this shitshow.

 

[HuntDawg]

You know it's past time for actual college football to get rolling when the SPS GrumpSquad is having an argument they've played out multiple times since last season, in a thread that was only tangentially about the subject they're now brain brawling over.

Glad to have the board moderator step in to add nothing to thread on a message board… something that is here so people can leave messages and discuss things.

get back to mopping the floors and doing the b1tch work. The people paying your salary have plenty of time to discuss things on message boards during the day… oh and be sure to salt the fries next time

 

[MSUDAWGFAN]

Again the acc was the worst power 5 conference last year. There isn’t any denying that..

the sec was the best. Your going to leave out a team that had 5 top 20 wins, including the 1 team in the country.. and their only loss was to a playoff team

to put a team in that played in basically no one and whose biggest win of the season was lsu in a neutral site while playing a bunch of no bodies?

ok. I mean I’ve said everyone gets their own opinion. I’m not saying yours is wrong, but I agree with what the committee did.. and I can see why the did what they did

What I want to know is how did they determine how te SEC was the best and the ACC was the worst, because it wasn't head to head. Was it the ever so subjective "Eye test" that has failed us so many times?

And as I've already said - the best conference doesn't have to have the best team. Clemson won it before in the ACC and novody thought the ACC was the best or even 2nd best in the years they did.


And I'd be willing to bet everything I own that if FSU was a bigger money school than Alabama they'd have gotten in, but there's no way to prove that right or wrong.

 

[She Mate Me]

Glad to have the board moderator step in to add nothing to thread on a message board… something that is here so people can leave messages and discuss things.

get back to mopping the floors and doing the b1tch work. The people paying your salary have plenty of time to discuss things on message boards during the day… oh and be sure to salt the fries next time

Quiet down Poindexter. You're too far out over your skis as usual. If you knew how often I refrain from telling you and showing others what a massive douche you are, you wouldn't poke the bear.

 

[HuntDawg]

What I want to know is how did they determine how te SEC was the best and the ACC was the worst, because it wasn't head to head. Was it the ever so subjective "Eye test" that has failed us so many times?

And as I've already said - the best conference doesn't have to have the best team. Clemson won it before in the ACC and novody thought the ACC was the best or even 2nd best in the years they did.


And I'd be willing to bet everything I own that if FSU was a bigger money school than Alabama they'd have gotten in, but there's no way to prove that right or wrong.

The same way net and rpi have been used to determine in basketball. The same applies to football. i mean the eye test also provided it but metrically it did as well. It’s easily found.. and the acc was down for the even the acc. The gulf was wide.

the best conference doesn’t have to have the best team. But an undefeated team in the conference that is rated much stronger than other conferences deserved a team the playoff. Hence why the big10 and sec were never been left out, nor did they deserve to be.

and that was the worst case scenario for the committee. It needed Georgia bad to keep the chaos from happening, but as soon as Alabama won, they were in. It wouldn’t be a playoff if you left out the best team from the best conference. It would be like having march madness without the acc…

 

[HuntDawg]

Quiet down Poindexter. You're too far out over your skis as usual. If you knew how often I refrain from telling you and showing others what a massive douche you are, you wouldn't poke the bear.

Did you just refer to yourself as the bear… and think you actually know anything at all about sports to jump into a discussion…

Keep making the fries and calling yourself a top chef… if that what makes you feel good

 

[She Mate Me]

Did you just refer to yourself as the bear… and think you actually know anything at all about sports to jump into a discussion…

Keep making the fries and calling yourself a top chef… if that what makes you feel good

Do you ever think to yourself...

"Gee, I've typed over a thousand words across multiple posts in this thread and I don't have a single upvote. Wonder why that is?"

I'm gonna say that question crosses your mind about as often as...

"Gee, I wonder if I could be wrong about that?"

 

[HuntDawg]

Do you ever think to yourself...

"Gee, I've typed over a thousand words across multiple posts in this thread and I don't have a single upvote. Wonder why that is?"

I'm gonna say that question crosses your mind about as often as...

"Gee, I wonder if I could be wrong about that?"

Oh I’m sorry… you make posts for upvotes? I realize you probably didn’t have any friends in real life or high school or what not.., but I’m not here to see how many upvotes I can receive

do we get a prize for the most votes?

wow if this is the result of “poking the bear” I can’t wait to see what I learn next. What a 17ing doosh… upvotes… lol

 

[She Mate Me]

Oh I’m sorry… you make posts for upvotes? I realize you probably didn’t have any friends in real life or high school or what not.., but I’m not here to see how many upvotes I can receive

do we get a prize for the most votes?

wow if this is the result of “poking the bear” I can’t wait to see what I learn next. What a 17ing doosh… upvotes… lol

Spoken (typed that is) like a guy who doesn't give a **** about other people's opinions, or self reflection.

Btw, if you're not connecting in some positive way with the other folks on a message board, does the board really need you?

 

[HuntDawg]

Spoken (typed that is) like a guy who doesn't give a **** about other people's opinions, or self reflection.

Btw, if you're not connecting in some positive way with the other folks on a message board, does the board really need you?

Love it… the bear keeps responding

So I’d love to know more about this upvote stuff. Do I get paid for how many I get or what?

does the messsage board really need me? You tell me… you’re the one that stalks threads and my posts… so obviously it makes you click a thread, or make a post, which is turn gets the site money and ad revenue due to traffic.., thus making money.,,,

sorry I realize all that flew over your head… my bad.. just be sure not to put your hand in the hot fry grease buddy.. please shut the door on the way back in from taking out the trash as well

#Iampokingthebear

 

[She Mate Me]

Love it… the bear keeps responding

So I’d love to know more about this upvote stuff. Do I get paid for how many I get or what?

does the messsage board really need me? You tell me… you’re the one that stalks threads and my posts… so obviously it makes you click a thread, or make a post, which is turn gets the site money and ad revenue due to traffic.., thus making money.,,,

sorry I realize all that flew over your head… my bad.. just be sure not to put your hand in the hot fry grease buddy.. please shut the door on the way back in from taking out the trash as well

#Iampokingthebear

 

[Anon1697564126]

Not just "a player", the starting quarterback. Again, the task is picking the "best". Was Florida State one of the 4 best teams with their backup QB? The committee didn't think so and they were probably right. It sucks for FSU, but that's the way it works (or worked).

That's just dumb. If you're not going to count the game because your qb is out, why even play it? That's as dumb as people who say how you're playing at the end of the season should count more than how you played at the beginning.

 

[Dawgzilla2]

How do you decide who the best 4 teams are other than the results of the games played?

Of course you use thevresults of the games...who said anything different?

Goat said FSU earned a playoff spot by going undefeated. They certainly earned consideration for a spot by going undefeated, but last year that was not sufficient to convince the committee they were 1 of the 4 best teams.

 

[Dawgzilla2]

No point in playing the games, then.

That's a dumb reaction. You play the games to build a resume and get consideration for a playoff spot. Then the committee has to decide who has proven themselves to be among the 4 best teams. You don't have to agree with their selection, but the whole thing was always set up to be subjective.

 

[Dawgzilla2]

I do not and have stated why. That was just a convenient excuse. Alabama was going to get in because they bring in more money.

FSU belonged. Alabama didn't.

Brings in money to what, exactly?
Merchandise sales?
The only way money would be an issue is if the committe was concerned about television ratings. I suppose having Alabama included pumps up the ratings a bit, but FSU is no slouch. Neither is UGA.

I'm just not sure I see enough of a difference there to tip the scales.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

That's a dumb reaction. You play the games to build a resume and get consideration for a playoff spot. Then the committee has to decide who has proven themselves to be among the 4 best teams. You don't have to agree with their selection, but the whole thing was always set up to be subjective.

Sooooo…….its about the best resumes, not the best teams. Got it.

So why again did FSU not make it?

 

[HuntDawg]

Sooooo…….its about the best resumes, not the best teams. Got it.

So why again did FSU not make it?

This isn’t that hard. 5 deserving resumes. Only 4 can make it.

obviously the committee decided that the two teams with one loss, both deserved in over the weakest undefeated champion, whose schedule and metrics were by far the worst of any of the 5 teams.

agree or disagree with that all you want… but it’s not hard to say it’s valid reasoning. Even if you don’t agree with it.

and had they chosen to put them in because they were undefeated. I would have disagreed with it, but I would have understood their thought process

 

[OG Goat Holder]

This isn’t that hard. 5 deserving resumes. Only 4 can make it.

obviously the committee decided that the two teams with one loss, both deserved in over the weakest undefeated champion, whose schedule and metrics were by far the worst of any of the 5 teams.

agree or disagree with that all you want… but it’s not hard to say it’s valid reasoning. Even if you don’t agree with it.

and had they chosen to put them in because they were undefeated. I would have disagreed with it, but I would have understood their thought process

If Jordan Travis isn’t hurt, does FSU make it?

 

[HuntDawg]

If Jordan Travis isn’t hurt, does FSU make it?

I don’t think so. But it would be an interesting scenario.

imo: the sec was always getting in. The decision was never Alabama or fsu. It was Texas and fsu. Once Alabama beat uga.. it leap frogged Texas over fsu. Had Alabama lost, they likely fall to 10th and the win Texas has over them doesn’t look good enough to get them in.

Georgia losing was the worst possible thing for the committee…. Because the sec was always getting a team in… they had to put Alabama in the top 4, which in turn makes Texas win and resume stronger than FSUs.

had Georgia won. FSU gets in. 4 undefeated champs. Texas win over Alabama not as impressive

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I don’t think so. But it would be an interesting scenario.

imo: the sec was always getting in. The decision was never Alabama or fsu. It was Texas and fsu. Once Alabama beat uga.. it leap frogged Texas over fsu. Had Alabama lost, they likely fall to 10th and the win Texas has over them doesn’t look good enough to get them in.

Georgia losing was the worst possible thing for the committee…. Because the sec was always getting a team in

I agree with the last paragraph.

At least we don’t have to worry about this anymore. A 12-teamer pretty much guarantees you get at least the best 6-7 teams and resumes, and they are the only ones who can conceivably win it.

 

[blacklistedbully]

I disagree with your disagreement. They play the games for a reason. UGA was one of the four best teams in the country, but they lost so they were omitted. UNLV was the best basketball team in all of history in 1991, but they lost and now they are not champions.

I disagree with your disagreement of his disagreement. The reason why one can't fairly go with record-only is because there are far too many teams in the "league" that is D1 football. Due to that, there are not fractionally enough common opponents, or at least similar schedule difficulty as there are in leagues like the NFL, CFL, NBA, NHL, MLB, etc.

To do it as you and goat suggested is to give a massively unfair advantage to teams that may be slightly above average nationally, but play a schedule so weak that they have a larger, nearly guaranteed number of wins (and fewer chances to actually lose).

While I understand every team can only play their schedule, I don't regard exclusion of such a team as unfair because getting an invitation to the playoffs should be earned, not simply awarded due to record alone. Earned should entail more than just overall record. If a team's schedule is weaker then they'd better win their games in a dominant fashion with no room at all for barely escaping or winning a competitive game against a vastly inferior opponent.

 

[mcdawg22]

I disagree with your disagreement of his disagreement. The reason why one can't fairly go with record-only is because there are far too many teams in the "league" that is D1 football. Due to that, there are not fractionally enough common opponents, or at least similar schedule difficulty as there are in leagues like the NFL, CFL, NBA, NHL, MLB, etc.

To do it as you and goat suggested is to give a massively unfair advantage to teams that may be slightly above average nationally, but play a schedule so weak that they have a larger, nearly guaranteed number of wins (and fewer chances to actually lose).

While I understand every team can only play their schedule, I don't regard exclusion of such a team as unfair because getting an invitation to the playoffs should be earned, not simply awarded due to record alone. Earned should entail more than just overall record. If a team's schedule is weaker then they'd better win their games in a dominant fashion with no room at all for barely escaping or winning a competitive game against a vastly inferior opponent.

I disagree with your disagreement of my disagreement of that other guys disagreement of my disagreement. Yes, you cannot take only record into account. You have to have SOS take account. I just think that FSU’s strength of schedule was enough to merit a spot with an undefeated season. People talk about FSU’s SOS, at least their conference still exists, unlike Washington’s that was so bad it’s gone now.