Everyone keeps saying this was a mistake hire...

[GhostOfJackie]

but they forget that we didn't have much of a choice considering the unfortunate situation we were in with Coach passing. In my book, we made the ONLY hire that would work at that time. He's screwed up the offense for sure, but the hire had to be made and Keenum is not to blame for this.

I wish I could say we will get this turned around, but this team looks abysmal and unprepared.

I love you all,
GOJ

 

[johnson86-1]

but they forget that we didn't have much of a choice considering the unfortunate situation we were in with Coach passing. In my book, we made the ONLY hire that would work at that time. He's screwed up the offence for sure, but the hire had to be made and Keenum is not to blame for this.

I wish I could say we will get this turned around, but this team looks abysmal and unprepared.

I love you all,
GOJ

That's just 17ing idiotic. The supposed justification for hiring him was to keep from losing a bunch of players from a team ready to win now. If you talk to Arnett and he doesn't have a plan for the offense that doesn't require a rebuild, you don't hire him. If you aren't trying to maximize your chances to win this year, you don't have to rush to hire Arnett. It was a stupid 17ing decision made unforgiveable by the fact that we just made this stupid decision with the 2018 season. You don't piss away good seasons because of what you think you can accomplish 3 or 4 years down the road.

 

[Bulldog45]

I think the root cause is the AD hire took way too long and we needed the AD in place prior to making a HC hire.

 

[GhostOfJackie]

That's just 17ing idiotic. The supposed justification for hiring him was to keep from losing a bunch of players from a team ready to win now. If you talk to Arnett and he doesn't have a plan for the offense that doesn't require a rebuild, you don't hire him. If you aren't trying to maximize your chances to win this year, you don't have to rush to hire Arnett. It was a stupid 17ing decision made unforgiveable by the fact that we just made this stupid decision with the 2018 season. You don't piss away good seasons because of what you think you can accomplish 3 or 4 years down the road.

I don't know what conversations he had with Keenum and neither do you. All I know is that we were put into a particular situation and in the current world of college football you have to make timely decisions based on what you know. We all know that Arnett was a good DC and was most likely primed to take on a head coaching job anyway. He was the most familiar with the team and the recruits. He hired an outside OC to run the offense who deserves a lot of the blame. I really believe this can be a good defense if they weren't on the field the entire game.

 

[HailStout]

@@

Ban this mofo immediately. Holy hell.

 

[ckDOG]

That's just 17ing idiotic. The supposed justification for hiring him was to keep from losing a bunch of players from a team ready to win now. If you talk to Arnett and he doesn't have a plan for the offense that doesn't require a rebuild, you don't hire him. If you aren't trying to maximize your chances to win this year, you don't have to rush to hire Arnett. It was a stupid 17ing decision made unforgiveable by the fact that we just made this stupid decision with the 2018 season. You don't piss away good seasons because of what you think you can accomplish 3 or 4 years down the road.

Yep. Hiring a guy quickly to preserve the veteran roster only to have said guy throw so much change at that roster that it essentially makes them as useful as a bunch of freshman and sophomores doesn't accomplish a damn thing. If that was Arnett's plan, more power to him and I would wish him nothing but success here or anywhere else but that approach should drop you down the list or off it completely. It makes no sense.

The OP is the epitome of "poor old mis'sippi state...dealt a bad hand again!"

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Ban this mofo immediately. Holy hell.

concur!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GhostOfJackie]

Ban this mofo immediately. Holy hell.

yeah no kidding. Especially since most of us are at work on a Monday morning. What a douche.

I can't even remember who runs this board anymore. DS would have already hammered his ***.

 

[ckDOG]

Need to be working and not on a damn message board anyways

Take your own advice then

 

[dawgstudent]

This guy signed up 15 times last night. We kept banning and banning. I've sent it to On3.

 

[Maroon13]

Hindsight is 20/20 but my take back in December..... because we had no AD and the coaching carousel had already unloaded and reloaded.... that we make Arnett interim and keep Leachs staff and re-evaluate in November 2023.

But hey..... guess what. LSU handed our asses to us in 1998. (We aren't winning the west this year). Point is, it ain't over yet. What's done is done and hopefully we can rebound to 6-7 wins.

 

[johnson86-1]

I don't know what conversations he had with Keenum and neither do you. All I know is that we were put into a particular situation and in the current world of college football you have to make timely decisions based on what you know. We all know that Arnett was a good DC and was most likely primed to take on a head coaching job anyway. He was the most familiar with the team and the recruits. He hired an outside OC to run the offense who deserves a lot of the blame. I really believe this can be a good defense if they weren't on the field the entire game.

I know what conversations should have been had. That's enough. If Keenum didn't get a plan for offense that involved not rebuilding, that's on Keenum. I know he's not an AD, but there's basically nobody with knowledge that has been involved with MSU that wouldn't have said, "let's not repeat 2018; we can move away from teh air raid when we're rebuilding anyway in a year."

I am on record as saying Arnett was a legitimate head coaching candidate for us regardless of the reason for the opening, but that he was probably a year if not two years early under a normal opening. But again, we didn't have to rush hiring him if we were planning on rebuilding the offense regardless. You can retool an offense in a year with the portal, so if we were going to go through a rebuild, we didn't really gain anything by keeping our offensive players. Hell, we may have put ourselves behind. We might could have gotten a better transfer QB if we had done right by Will and told him we aren't going to put him in position to succeed next year, so he should transfer or get ready to hold a clipboard.

 

[johnson86-1]

Hindsight is 20/20 but my take back in December..... because we had no AD and the coaching carousel had already unloaded and reloaded.... that we make Arnett interim and keep Leachs staff and re-evaluate in November 2023.

But hey..... guess what. LSU handed our asses to us in 1998. (We aren't winning the west this year). Point is, it ain't over yet. What's done is done and hopefully we can rebound to 6-7 wins.

The good news is that this wasn't really a probable win in anybody's projections for us. Record wise, we're exactly where most of us expected us to be. Just not sure it's realistic for us to suddenly not suck on offense. It doesn't look like the problem is we just don't quite get the offense yet. That said, we just need the offense to be competent and our defense will still give us a chance in a number of games.

 

[Drebin]

but they forget that we didn't have much of a choice considering the unfortunate situation we were in with Coach passing. In my book, we made the ONLY hire that would work at that time. He's screwed up the offense for sure, but the hire had to be made and Keenum is not to blame for this.

I wish I could say we will get this turned around, but this team looks abysmal and unprepared.

I love you all,
GOJ

I don't know yet how much of a 'mistake' it was.

I think we're trying to fit a square peg in a round hole with Will at QB and that has put significant stress on the offense. And then on defense we're playing way too conservative because there's not a lot of faith in the offense putting up points.

I understand this sounds crazy after saturday, but we aren't a bad football team. If Arnett can do what needs to be done on offense and get us more aggressive on the defensive side of the ball, we're going to win a few games. We luckily don't have to play Daniels and Nabers every week.

I don't get the piling onto Barbay, other than his choice for QB. The scheme is fine. We've been able to run the ball a little. Will is just not going to be able to sit back in the pocket, which has been an issue with him for three years. It's exacerbated this year because we're not getting the three man fronts we got the last couple of years.

Will is a sacred cow and they've probably been trying to avoid controversy by sticking with it, but in doing so, they've created a different kind of controversy. The kind you don't want.

Get Wright in there, start using your playmakers in read/option and RPO looks, and let's win some freaking ball games.

 

[onewoof]

This guy signed up 15 times last night. We kept banning and banning. I've sent it to On3.

sent you a PM that may help

 

[HailStout]

This guy signed up 15 times last night. We kept banning and banning. I've sent it to On3.

That is incredibly sad.

 

[Dawgzilla2]

The rehashing of events and "I told you so's" is tiresome.

We had other choices. There was no question Arnett should have been interim HC for the bowl game. And he should have been given due consideration for head coach. He earned all of that.

But there was no reason we couldn't hire a search team to see what our options were. We were late getting into the coaching carousel, but we hired Leach on January 9. And he already had a job. I'm not sure who our options might have been but there are plenty for f coaches anxious to get into the SEC.

I never understood any of the excuses here. Keeping our recruiting class together, hanging on to our experienced roster, whatever. It's a head coaching hire and you have to look beyond the next season. A name hire would resolve all of that.

Now, all that said, I'm not ready to throw in the towel on Arnett just yet. This weekend will tell us a lot. I still think we can win 6, which is what I said preseason.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

I don't know yet how much of a 'mistake' it was.

I think we're trying to fit a square peg in a round hole with Will at QB and that has put significant stress on the offense. And then on defense we're playing way too conservative because there's not a lot of faith in the offense putting up points.

I understand this sounds crazy after saturday, but we aren't a bad football team. If Arnett can do what needs to be done on offense and get us more aggressive on the defensive side of the ball, we're going to win a few games. We luckily don't have to play Daniels and Nabers every week.

I don't get the piling onto Barbay, other than his choice for QB. The scheme is fine. We've been able to run the ball a little. Will is just not going to be able to sit back in the pocket, which has been an issue with him for three years. It's exacerbated this year because we're not getting the three man fronts we got the last couple of years.

Will is a sacred cow and they've probably been trying to avoid controversy by sticking with it, but in doing so, they've created a different kind of controversy. The kind you don't want.

Get Wright in there, start using your playmakers in read/option and RPO looks, and let's win some freaking ball games.

Barbay isn't doing wil any favors. If they keep trotting him out there they need to adjust what he can do. Just like Moorhead with fitz. Don't have him throwing bombs and expect him to hit it. Don't expect will to run the read option and marks be the target same with passing call quick throws because he ain't moving after the ball is snapped and he's not getting out of sack with a slick move or taking off for 15 or making the defender come up leaving receiver open if he does make it out of the pocket.

 

[msstatelp1]

but they forget that we didn't have much of a choice considering the unfortunate situation we were in with Coach passing. In my book, we made the ONLY hire that would work at that time. He's screwed up the offense for sure, but the hire had to be made and Keenum is not to blame for this.

I wish I could say we will get this turned around, but this team looks abysmal and unprepared.

I love you all,
GOJ

I think Arnett has the makings of a good HC whether here or somewhere else. Anyone that thought it would be a seamless transition with no HC or staff mistakes was being unrealistic. Even if we brought in an experienced HC, they would have changed staff and everything else.

 

[Drebin]

Barbay isn't doing wil any favors. If they keep trotting him out there they need to adjust what he can do. Just like Moorhead with fitz. Don't have him throwing bombs snd expect him to hit it. Don't expect will to run the read option and marks be the target same with passing call quick throws because he ain't moving after the bell is snapped and he's not getting out of sack with a slick move or taking off for 15 or making the defender come up leaving receiver open if he does make it out of the pocket.

What's he supposed to do? Let will drop back and take a sack every third play? Because if he changed the offense to benefit Will, that's what we are going to end up with.

He actually did change quite a bit for the LSU game....we threw a lot more on first down and was more aggressive in the passing game, and we saw the result of that.

We need someone who can create with his feet when things break down. That's not Will, obviously.

 

[MSUDC11-2.0]

I still think that at the time, going with Arnett was probably the right move.

Having said that, nobody forced him to hire a first time DC or drastically change the offense. Those are decisions he made that are having very poor early returns. And that’s on Zach.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

What's he supposed to do? Let will drop back and take a sack every third play? Because if he changed the offense to benefit Will, that's what we are going to end up with.

He actually did change quite a bit for the LSU game....we threw a lot more on first down and was more aggressive in the passing game, and we saw the result of that.

We need someone who can create with his feet when things break down. That's not Will, obviously.

I would agree with you. But if he keeps trotting will out there he can't call that stuff. Quick screens and slants and outs is about all he can do

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

As bad as I hate to say it Will needs benching. He was useless Saturday. Y'all Will haters are correct and I admit it.

 

[Pilgrimdawg]

Right or wrong, we had to move quickly after Leach passed away. Other coaches, including Freeze, were contacting our players BEFORE we even had Leaches memorial service. That’s pitiful conduct by multiple coaches. I expect it from Freeze, but he wasn’t the only one. That’s truly sad behavior.

 

[Bulldog45]

I don't get the piling onto Barbay, other than his choice for QB. The scheme is fine. We've been able to run the ball a little.

I sort of feel that way but you look back at stuff like running Will at RB and faking a handoff to him whether it was all for show or he was a legit option to get the ball makes you scratch your head

 

[UpTheMiddlex3Punt]

If by "at that time" you meant winning the bowl game, sure. But we could have done a much better job looking. There are a lot of good coaches who maybe I'm not crazy about but would have been much better hires. Maybe some of these will be available at the end of this season.

 

[The Usual Suspect]

If by "at that time" you meant winning the bowl game, sure. But we could have done a much better job looking. There are a lot of good coaches who maybe I'm not crazy about but would have been much better hires. Maybe some of these will be available at the end of this season.

The next coach search will be the most difficult one that any A.D. has had to make at MSU in a long time. 90% of the starters will be gone next year. Good luck.

 

[catvet]

I love how all the problems on the team are Will's fault. Did he cause LSUs QB to go 31/36 for 361 yds? Did Will cause our defense to be the 95th unit in the country? A lot of you want scapegoats instead of looking at this craptastic HC and his staff. We are around 100 on offense and defense but it's all Wills fault. Most of you need to take a good hard look at this miserable staff. No qb on this team is going to be the Saviour.

 

[ronpolk]

I don't know yet how much of a 'mistake' it was.

I think we're trying to fit a square peg in a round hole with Will at QB and that has put significant stress on the offense. And then on defense we're playing way too conservative because there's not a lot of faith in the offense putting up points.

I understand this sounds crazy after saturday, but we aren't a bad football team. If Arnett can do what needs to be done on offense and get us more aggressive on the defensive side of the ball, we're going to win a few games. We luckily don't have to play Daniels and Nabers every week.

I don't get the piling onto Barbay, other than his choice for QB. The scheme is fine. We've been able to run the ball a little. Will is just not going to be able to sit back in the pocket, which has been an issue with him for three years. It's exacerbated this year because we're not getting the three man fronts we got the last couple of years.

Will is a sacred cow and they've probably been trying to avoid controversy by sticking with it, but in doing so, they've created a different kind of controversy. The kind you don't want.

Get Wright in there, start using your playmakers in read/option and RPO looks, and let's win some freaking ball games.

Have you watched the offense play? Does this look like an offense that is on the same page? Perhaps it’s 100% Will, but I doubt it. The receivers and QB are constantly on different pages. The OL has all sorts of odd stuff going on and I hope none of it is coached. After all spring and training camp, I would hope we have a better grasp of the offense than this, it’s hard to not put some of that at the feet of the OC. Lastly, his play calling is terrible. There is no plan or purpose to it. He does not appear to be attacking a weakness of the defense or playing to a strength that we have on offense.

 

[blitz2Win]

The next coach search will be the most difficult one that any A.D. has had to make at MSU in a long time. 90% of the starters will be gone next year. Good luck.

Its a real gamble if you bring in a fcs guy, there aren’t too many P5 guys of Leachs caliber out there unless you get lucky. Someone who has experience building and running a program and is a very good offensive coach should be the criteria.

 

[BulldogBlitz]

We could have had Saban.



**

 

[The Cooterpoot]

I still think that at the time, going with Arnett was probably the right move.

Having said that, nobody forced him to hire a first time DC or drastically change the offense. Those are decisions he made that are having very poor early returns. And that’s on Zach.

Actually, someone made several decisions for him.

 

[Ibdancin]

but they forget that we didn't have much of a choice considering the unfortunate situation we were in with Coach passing. In my book, we made the ONLY hire that would work at that time. He's screwed up the offense for sure, but the hire had to be made and Keenum is not to blame for this.

I wish I could say we will get this turned around, but this team looks abysmal and unprepared.

I love you all,
GOJ

Well, that's just false. The issue on offense is the people implementing the system. They can't teach it. We literally pulled 2 OTs in opposite directions on a run play vs LSU. Both DEs were in position to make the plays because our very SR OL is confused.

- You stay with an modified AR with Drew Hollingshead who was on staff.

- You stay on as a DC.

- You ramp up their conditioning.

 

[Ibdancin]

I know what conversations should have been had. That's enough. If Keenum didn't get a plan for offense that involved not rebuilding, that's on Keenum. I know he's not an AD, but there's basically nobody with knowledge that has been involved with MSU that wouldn't have said, "let's not repeat 2018; we can move away from teh air raid when we're rebuilding anyway in a year."

I am on record as saying Arnett was a legitimate head coaching candidate for us regardless of the reason for the opening, but that he was probably a year if not two years early under a normal opening. But again, we didn't have to rush hiring him if we were planning on rebuilding the offense regardless. You can retool an offense in a year with the portal, so if we were going to go through a rebuild, we didn't really gain anything by keeping our offensive players. Hell, we may have put ourselves behind. We might could have gotten a better transfer QB if we had done right by Will and told him we aren't going to put him in position to succeed next year, so he should transfer or get ready to hold a clipboard.

Look... The proof is in the puddin'.

HC Sanders just booted a whole friggin team. He retooled with the VET staff he had at JSU who KNEW how to install that offense. YET we hire a guy who has successfully taken a vet team that's been together for 4 years and the OTs are so confused they are pulling to the opposite sides.

It's not PLAYERS it's this Offensive staff.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Look... The proof is in the puddin'.

HC Sanders just booted a whole friggin team. He retooled with the VET staff he had at JSU who KNEW how to install that offense. YET we hire a guy who has successfully taken a vet team that's been together for 4 years and the OTs are so confused they are pulling to the opposite sides.

It's not PLAYERS it's this Offensive staff.

He brought in a new OC. That OC brought in his OL coach. Completely different situation than us.

 

[johnson86-1]

Right or wrong, we had to move quickly after Leach passed away. Other coaches, including Freeze, were contacting our players BEFORE we even had Leaches memorial service. That’s pitiful conduct by multiple coaches. I expect it from Freeze, but he wasn’t the only one. That’s truly sad behavior.

Again, keeping our players only mattered if we were going for some continuity. We had a team that was peaking this year. Still not a ton of talent unfortunately, but enough talent that we won 9 games last year with a pretty limited offense. Trying to take advantage of that meant the only choice was to promote Arnett with a plan to get an OC that runs air raid concepts. If we weren't going to try to take advantage of the senior laden team, then we could afford to wait and do a full search.

I'm still an Arnett fan, I just think he made the level of difficulty for his first head coaching job damn near impossible. You're going to completely retool the offense and also hire an inexperienced DC? He should have hired an air raid concept OC and kept as much of that staff as possible.

 

[Ibdancin]

He brought in a new OC. That OC brought in his OL coach. Completely different situation than us.

So you are saying that the staff had continuity..... which is what we had BTW.. we just decided to hire people out of order and hoped that they could work together.


That was my point.

 

[blitz2Win]

Well, that's just false. The issue on offense is the people implementing the system. They can't teach it. We literally pulled 2 OTs in opposite directions on a run play vs LSU. Both DEs were in position to make the plays because our very SR OL is confused.

- You stay with an modified AR with Drew Hollingshead who was on staff.

- You stay on as a DC.

- You ramp up their conditioning.

That’s what I thought he would do, act as his own DC and leave the offense alone.

Apparently he thought he was much smarter than he Is.

 

[LordMcBuckethead]

but they forget that we didn't have much of a choice considering the unfortunate situation we were in with Coach passing. In my book, we made the ONLY hire that would work at that time. He's screwed up the offense for sure, but the hire had to be made and Keenum is not to blame for this.

I wish I could say we will get this turned around, but this team looks abysmal and unprepared.

I love you all,
GOJ

The mistake was not leaving the offense intact, and not keeping miller and hollinshead.

 

[OopsICroomedmypants]

In case you forgot..... We ARE MSTATE!