Favorite place to hide your cowbell??

Status
Not open for further replies.

Maroon Eagle

Well-known member
May 24, 2006
16,455
5,385
102
Released today. After we've re-entered the Croom era, I dont even have the desire to discuss. We are no longer the third worst Power 5 university in America. We are tied for last. WVU and Texas Tech moved up.
Serious question:

How much does USNWR matter when there are universities whose goals don’t involve those rankings?

Specifically, Clemson.

 
  • Like
Reactions: Dawgg

Trojanbulldog19

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2014
8,857
4,335
113
Portera did this, and folks ran him out of town. He wanted to use the JUCOs, and reduce Starkville enrollment. Keenum came in and did the opposite, and it was praised. I don't personally know the correct answer.

Looks like Portera's way will eventually win, with the student-loan crisis and the enrollment cliff coming, and the overall lack of trust in the higher-ed system. And if I'm honest, Keenum's way may have increased the brain drain, as stupid people got degrees, and instead of working a job locally that maybe they should have (and gotten a degree at a JUCO or similar), they leave the state because they think they are entitled to an office job in Atlanta or Dallas.

But there's also no doubt that Keenum's way has led to an increased emphasis on Starkville, and State athletics. So who knows?

But I know this, all you "Keenum sucks" types weren't around for Lee and Foglesong. Keenum does NOT suck, in any way.
Fogglesong hated daffodils and templeton. He got rid of Lonnie and brought Byrne. He also liked old planes. Makes him good in my book
 
  • Like
Reactions: 32 Dive and patdog

Maroon Eagle

Well-known member
May 24, 2006
16,455
5,385
102
Fogglesong hated daffodils and templeton. He got rid of Lonnie and brought Byrne. He also liked old planes. Makes him good in my book
If he had only liked daffodils, he’d be part of the MSU Presidential Mt. Rushmore…**

(If you’re wondering, mine are Zacharias, Humphrey, Colvard, and SD Lee)
 

Duke Humphrey

Well-known member
Oct 3, 2013
2,302
991
113
Keenum is an interesting case.

His academic situation is one a lot of folks in the trenches of higher ed don’t like (too insular — bachelors, masters, doctorates all from MSU — higher ed folks would call that academic incest especially since they’re in the same field) but he knows the politics of the state front and back.



Keenum’s point of view wins over Portera’s for this reason: More students mean more money.

Make It Rain Money GIF by Tim and Eric
Look at how much more in state support Portera was getting compared to what Keenum has received? If you truly want to look at apples to apples
 
  • Like
Reactions: Maroon Eagle

Perd Hapley

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2022
3,464
3,712
113
So how do you make up the budget hole created by this? You propose a cut and increase in spending. State funding is down compared to where we were 20 years ago, whereas the state funds only make up to 15-20 percent of overall budget. Tuition is the vast majority of what funds the university, so if you cut enrollment you cut resources coming in.
Its coming whether we like it or not. Reduction in millennial birth rates are going to start hitting hard in the next 3-5 years with college enrollments across the country. Right now we have high enrollment due largely to low selectivity. With numbers inevitably coming down in the future anyway, there’s no better time to get more selective with students by whatever means necessary.

Its also important to remember that enrollment numbers don’t only fund university resources, they consume them as well. Lower enrollment means less need for new dorms, fewer classrooms, less students per class, less parking spaces, etc.
 

Maroon Eagle

Well-known member
May 24, 2006
16,455
5,385
102
Look at how much more in state support Portera was getting compared to what Keenum has received? If you truly want to look at apples to apples

Agreed.

You’d also have to compare both to Charles Lee & Foglesong for a more complete comparison.
 

Trojanbulldog19

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2014
8,857
4,335
113
If all you care about is athletics, then Keenum is your man.
Yeah I don't like seeing state there at the bottom of sec and that far down. At least one of my degrees came from a top 28 school. I'm surprised it's fallen off too many scandals lately and policies.

if state wants to stay in the science and engineering game, going to have to get better.
 

L4Dawg

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2016
6,241
3,471
113
Tighten enrollment requirements….with the expressed purpose of reducing enrollment to both increase the quality of the average student and also increase the university’s investment in every student. Already mentioned in other post how to do that, without violating anything in the Ayers laws.
That is against what MSU has always stood far. You only tighten admission standards for Mississippi residents if there just isn't any room for them. There is value in numbers as we are also the smallest of the public universities in the SEC, along with Ole Miss.
 

L4Dawg

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2016
6,241
3,471
113
Stop being the school of choice for a majority of Mississippians and start recruiting out of state students.

We are the best MS school, just not in the view of US News and how they determine.
NO. That is against our historical mission.
 

Mobile Bay

Well-known member
Jul 26, 2020
3,837
1,527
113
I have graduates of Auburn, Alabama, and Virginia Tech all working for me.
 

johnson86-1

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2012
12,219
2,440
113
This concerns me some about my daughter. She’s a sophomore at State and wants to be a physical therapist. Post graduate PT School is very competitive and even though she has straight A’s, I’m afraid some schools would look at the undergrad university rankings when deciding who to admit and that would hurt her chances.
As long as there is standardized testing for what you want to go into, the reputation probably isn't going to matter that much. So if you're planning on doing something that requires LSAT, MCAT, DAT, GMAT, GRE, etc., I don't think it matters. If you want to get into something without a standardized test and they are just relying on grades, yea, I can see that reputation mattering.
 

johnson86-1

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2012
12,219
2,440
113
It's pretty clear to me that this is detrimental to the state, but good for MSU in the short term. But it all may be coming to a head. Our time in the sun may be over, we might be pulling a Gordon Gee soon. I don't think we are alone. Everybody is doing it, it's like the travel ball stuff.

Meanwhile Ole Miss has invested out of state. Is this good? Maybe. Some end up staying, but most end up leaving. However, this strategy worked for the state of SC. Both Clemson and South Carolina recruited out of state. It's also worked for AL.

Should we follow their lead. Can we succeed, even at their level? I'm not sure. This state is just so dysfunctional - but that's me giving a cop-out. But sometimes I do want to give up. But the reckoning is coming for higher ed. And it's closer than people think. We will survive, but will others? Milsaps, Belhaven, etc. Southern?
Ole Miss has done a phenomenal job of brand management and they offer their out of state students an affordable way to save face from not being able to get into Texas schools and not being willing/able to pay for SMU or TCU. They are more explicitly offering 4 years of consumption/semi-vacation, and that engenders a lot of loyalty without really even harming the students because that's largely what most universities are offering now. Those out of state students also help with their perception because they leave being very invested in asserting that they went there because it was awesome and not because it was an affordable option after not getting into UT or UGA.

It'd be hard for us to replicate that starting at this point. We probably should be able to make some hay offering an affordable option to engineering students that can't get into their state school.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ckDOG and TXMaroon

mcdawg22

Well-known member
Sep 18, 2004
10,945
4,847
113
It's pretty clear to me that this is detrimental to the state, but good for MSU in the short term. But it all may be coming to a head. Our time in the sun may be over, we might be pulling a Gordon Gee soon. I don't think we are alone. Everybody is doing it, it's like the travel ball stuff.

Meanwhile Ole Miss has invested out of state. Is this good? Maybe. Some end up staying, but most end up leaving. However, this strategy worked for the state of SC. Both Clemson and South Carolina recruited out of state. It's also worked for AL.

Should we follow their lead. Can we succeed, even at their level? I'm not sure. This state is just so dysfunctional - but that's me giving a cop-out. But sometimes I do want to give up. But the reckoning is coming for higher ed. And it's closer than people think. We will survive, but will others? Milsaps, Belhaven, etc. Southern?
Do you just shoe horn travel ball in every discussion? It really is weird, like obsessive weird. What’s wrong with my lawn? Travel ball. My brisket came out dry, travel ball. The ongoing conflict between the Palestinians and Jews? Travel Ball. I heard the aliens left their planet because they were tired of travel ball.
 

fredgarvin

Member
Jun 26, 2010
574
33
28
Honestly I’ve never found these rankings to be all that important. I’ve never interviewed a job candidate and said, “Well I know that we liked the guy who graduated from Arkansas, but have you SEEN their latest ranking?”
Compare the companies that come on campus to interview at Florida, Georgia and Texas A&M to those who come to State. It's not even close. You can dismiss these rankings all you want, but they do count in the types of kids who apply and the companies who will come to campus.
 

OG Goat Holder

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2022
7,606
7,177
113
It'd be hard for us to replicate that starting at this point. We probably should be able to make some hay offering an affordable option to engineering students that can't get into their state school.
We do a pretty good job of that in west TN and AL. Lot of east AR and SE MO folks there too.
 

TrueMaroonGrind

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2017
3,673
851
113
Compare the companies that come on campus to interview at Florida, Georgia and Texas A&M to those who come to State. It's not even close. You can dismiss these rankings all you want, but they do count in the types of kids who apply and the companies who will come to campus.
Part of that is proximity to a city. We have Jackson, Memphis and BHAM. Georgia has Atlanta, TAMU has Houston and Florida has Orlando, Jacksonville, Tampa and Tallahassee. Those job markets are better and job fair attendees will most likely not travel over 3-4 hours.
 

Perd Hapley

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2022
3,464
3,712
113
That is against what MSU has always stood far. You only tighten admission standards for Mississippi residents if there just isn't any room for them. There is value in numbers as we are also the smallest of the public universities in the SEC, along with Ole Miss.
I never said anything about tightening admissions standards. We can’t do that unilaterally.

We can tighten requirements for the colleges within the university (for everyone, not just in-state or out-of-state), and even the scales for financial aid for in-state / out-of-state. And target high performing out-of-state students for in-state tuition even if they don’t get any of the big scholarships.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Maroon Eagle

Yeti

Active member
Feb 20, 2018
359
361
63
Its not important at the candidate level, once you get to the point of selecting an individual. But its hugely important at the screening level where you are choosing which schools as a company or firm that you are or are not interested in visiting for career fairs and things of that nature.

Vanderbilt, UF, UGA, and a few others nearby have companies and firms from across the country flocking to their campus twice a year to get in on the bidding for their graduates. MSU….not so much. We get the usual regional companies looking for engineers. Maybe some metro area firms from the NE or West Coast looking for a handful of Architecture grads. But thats the extent of it. Are several MSU students as good or better than several students from those other schools? Absolutely. But it doesn’t matter if they can’t get that first foot in the door.
Fred is 100% correct. our Grads aren’t being recruited at the same rate as more reputable schools , mabye engineers are but not B school. Grads have a much further path to big time pay because of it I made this point to Keenum and he agreed. US News is BS but it matters
 
  • Like
Reactions: patdog

mstateglfr

Well-known member
Feb 24, 2008
13,451
3,368
113
Stop being the school of choice for a majority of Mississippians and start recruiting out of state students.

We are the best MS school, just not in the view of US News and how they determine.

Tighten enrollment requirements….with the expressed purpose of reducing enrollment to both increase the quality of the average student and also increase the university’s investment in every student. Already mentioned in other post how to do that, without violating anything in the Ayers laws.

MSU has proudly been, ever since I applied 25 years ago, 'the people's university'.
The mission of MSU is different from Vandy or Air Force.

I am not justifying anything. I am not excusing the ranking. I am hesitant to support the idea that this state university, which exists to improve the socioeconomic standing of its people, should stop being the school of choice and tighten acceptance requirements for the very people it was created to benefit.
 
Last edited:

Maroon Eagle

Well-known member
May 24, 2006
16,455
5,385
102
MSU has proudly been, ever since I applied 25 years ago, 'the people's university'.

That is a catchphrase and is not the University’s Mission— and this is also something I’ve mentioned to L4.

This is The Mission:

Mission​

Mississippi State University is a public research, land-grant university with a mission to provide access and opportunity to all sectors of Mississippi’s diverse population, as well as other states and countries, and to offer excellent programs of teaching, research, and service.


And no talk about The Mission is complete until you refer to Ennio Morricone’s best movie music ever (yeah, even better than The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly)…

 

mstateglfr

Well-known member
Feb 24, 2008
13,451
3,368
113
MSU has proudly been, ever since I applied 25 years ago, 'the people's university'.
The mission of MSU is different from Vandy or Air Force.

I am not justifying anything. I am not excusing the ranking. I am hesitant to support the idea that this state university, which exists to improve the socioeconomic standing of its people, should stop being the school of choice and tighten acceptance requirements for the very people it was created to benefit.
That is a catchphrase and is not the University’s Mission— and this is also something I’ve mentioned to L4.

This is The Mission:

Mission​

Mississippi State University is a public research, land-grant university with a mission to provide access and opportunity to all sectors of Mississippi’s diverse population, as well as other states and countries, and to offer excellent programs of teaching, research, and service.

Yes I understand 'the people's university' isnt actually listed within an official Mission Statement. It would be inappropriate for a Mission Statement to be so casually worded.
But that doesnt mean the Mission Statement conflicts with what I said.

I view "with a mission to provide access and opportunity to all sectors of Mississippi’s diverse population" to mean 'the people's university'.
If your mission is to provide access and opportunity to all sectors, then tightening admission standards while trying to reduce enrollment and also actively trying to not be the school of choice for Mississippians seems counter to the mission.

MSU isnt UC Berkeley where only 15% of applicants are accepted. It isnt Georgia Tech or UVA or Michigan, where less than 25% of applicants are accepted. MSU isnt those schools because it wasnt designed to be those schools and it isnt currently designed to be those schools.
The UC Berkeley Mission Statement says nothing about providing access and opportunity to all sectors of CA's diverse population. Its Mission Statement is basically 'we will be a leader in higher learning and create societal benefits thru research and teaching'. Thats a significantly different Mission Statement for a significantly different university.




Anyways, I would be very interested in reading a white paper on how higher education in Mississippi could be transformed. Ill just make the blueprint for the white paper right now!
- Make MSU a premiere university in the state where admission standards are higher, and acceptance is limited(the Mission Statement would need to change). MSU would be the go to for Veterinary, Engineering, Business degrees(Econ, Accounting, etc), Computer Sciences(within Engineering or separate), and all things Ag based(both animal and plant) for research and education.
There would be an emphasis on recruiting highly qualified students regardless of where they live, and generous financial aid would assist in bringing them to Starkville.
- Ole Miss would also a premiere university in the state where admission standards are higher and acceptance is limited. They would have law, medical and journalism, just like they do now. Everything else would be total crap because thats what they deserve. Again, an emphasis on recruiting highly qualified students regardless of where they live would exist, and strong financial aid would assist in bringing them in.
- Southern Miss and Jackson State could continue to operate and serve in the manners which they feel best for the students they serve. Their admissions would be very open and accessible.
- MVSU and Delta State would consolidate into 1 college and become part of the MSU system- called Mississippi State Delta. This would save money by reducing overlap costs.
- The W would just merge with MSU and if those students couldnt make the new MSU academic standards, tough titties- MSU will help place the students elsewhere.
- Alcorn State continues to exist so there can be a public university in SW MS and also so there are still 2 HBCUs in the state, since that is an important part of the state's history and culture.
- Anyone that graduates from one of the 584 JUCOs in the state are automatically accepted into Southern Miss, Jackson State, Mississippi State Delta, and Alcorn State. They then have to commit to one by the end of May to retain the auto acceptance, otherwise they can apply on their own later at any time.


GOALS-
- Create 2 elite universities that focus on research and high academics thru pursuing higher qualified students.
- Continue good work currently taking place at the other large state universities.
- Reduce the number of 4 year public institutions from 8 to 6 to save on costs.
- Continue the widespread geographic access to public education in the state.
- Continue the tradition and support HBCUs within the state.
- Create an easy and clear path from 2 year to 4 year degrees for those who want and will benefit from a 4 year degree, but dont have the grades or test scores to get into MSU and OM.




In Iowa, there are only 3 public universities. Basically the same population as MS, but only 3 public universities. UNI, ISU, Iowa. We then have 584 tiny private colleges that enroll between 1000 and 4000 students. Its bonkers how many tiny private universities and colleges there are. This state alone keeps D3 and NAIA athletics in business, I swear.
Sometimes I think having only 3 public institutions is a really good idea- dont spread resources too thin to be effective.
Other times, I think having some smaller directional public universities would be really good for those who benefit from smaller classes while still keeping costs down due to consolidation of administrative costs and state funding support.
...but while this state used to take pride in its public education system, the last 15 years has just been a steady defund of education, both k-12 and higher education. I doubt the current legislature would ever agree to fund another state university, even if the numbers looked good and were spoon fed to them.
Having a public directional university in the NW part of the state would be pretty nice. There are 6 small private universities in the NW 70 square miles of the state. 6 of em. Its nuts.
There are 10 private colleges/universities within 75mi of Dubuque. 10. Based on what I extensively know about 2 private colleges in other parts of the state, at least half of those 10 colleges are struggling and merging would be best. Merge and be bought by the state to have a directional smaller public university in that area(even though Iowa and UNI are both within 100mi of Dubuque.



Maybe all that talk of changing how public education in MS is a good idea, or maybe its all horrible. Whats currently happening though is hardly anything to talk about. Its a couple of middling large universities and then a bunch of afterthoughts, if they are thought of at all.







^ 17 me, the Methylphenidate is clearly in full effect right now.
 

MSUDOG24

Active member
Mar 31, 2021
562
366
63
Yes I understand 'the people's university' isnt actually listed within an official Mission Statement. It would be inappropriate for a Mission Statement to be so casually worded.
But that doesnt mean the Mission Statement conflicts with what I said.

I view "with a mission to provide access and opportunity to all sectors of Mississippi’s diverse population" to mean 'the people's university'.
If your mission is to provide access and opportunity to all sectors, then tightening admission standards while trying to reduce enrollment and also actively trying to not be the school of choice for Mississippians seems counter to the mission.

MSU isnt UC Berkeley where only 15% of applicants are accepted. It isnt Georgia Tech or UVA or Michigan, where less than 25% of applicants are accepted. MSU isnt those schools because it wasnt designed to be those schools and it isnt currently designed to be those schools.
The UC Berkeley Mission Statement says nothing about providing access and opportunity to all sectors of CA's diverse population. Its Mission Statement is basically 'we will be a leader in higher learning and create societal benefits thru research and teaching'. Thats a significantly different Mission Statement for a significantly different university.




Anyways, I would be very interested in reading a white paper on how higher education in Mississippi could be transformed. Ill just make the blueprint for the white paper right now!
- Make MSU a premiere university in the state where admission standards are higher, and acceptance is limited(the Mission Statement would need to change). MSU would be the go to for Veterinary, Engineering, Business degrees(Econ, Accounting, etc), Computer Sciences(within Engineering or separate), and all things Ag based(both animal and plant) for research and education.
There would be an emphasis on recruiting highly qualified students regardless of where they live, and generous financial aid would assist in bringing them to Starkville.
- Ole Miss would also a premiere university in the state where admission standards are higher and acceptance is limited. They would have law, medical and journalism, just like they do now. Everything else would be total crap because thats what they deserve. Again, an emphasis on recruiting highly qualified students regardless of where they live would exist, and strong financial aid would assist in bringing them in.
- Southern Miss and Jackson State could continue to operate and serve in the manners which they feel best for the students they serve. Their admissions would be very open and accessible.
- MVSU and Delta State would consolidate into 1 college and become part of the MSU system- called Mississippi State Delta. This would save money by reducing overlap costs.
- The W would just merge with MSU and if those students couldnt make the new MSU academic standards, tough titties- MSU will help place the students elsewhere.
- Alcorn State continues to exist so there can be a public university in SW MS and also so there are still 2 HBCUs in the state, since that is an important part of the state's history and culture.
- Anyone that graduates from one of the 584 JUCOs in the state are automatically accepted into Southern Miss, Jackson State, Mississippi State Delta, and Alcorn State. They then have to commit to one by the end of May to retain the auto acceptance, otherwise they can apply on their own later at any time.


GOALS-
- Create 2 elite universities that focus on research and high academics thru pursuing higher qualified students.
- Continue good work currently taking place at the other large state universities.
- Reduce the number of 4 year public institutions from 8 to 6 to save on costs.
- Continue the widespread geographic access to public education in the state.
- Continue the tradition and support HBCUs within the state.
- Create an easy and clear path from 2 year to 4 year degrees for those who want and will benefit from a 4 year degree, but dont have the grades or test scores to get into MSU and OM.




In Iowa, there are only 3 public universities. Basically the same population as MS, but only 3 public universities. UNI, ISU, Iowa. We then have 584 tiny private colleges that enroll between 1000 and 4000 students. Its bonkers how many tiny private universities and colleges there are. This state alone keeps D3 and NAIA athletics in business, I swear.
Sometimes I think having only 3 public institutions is a really good idea- dont spread resources too thin to be effective.
Other times, I think having some smaller directional public universities would be really good for those who benefit from smaller classes while still keeping costs down due to consolidation of administrative costs and state funding support.
...but while this state used to take pride in its public education system, the last 15 years has just been a steady defund of education, both k-12 and higher education. I doubt the current legislature would ever agree to fund another state university, even if the numbers looked good and were spoon fed to them.
Having a public directional university in the NW part of the state would be pretty nice. There are 6 small private universities in the NW 70 square miles of the state. 6 of em. Its nuts.
There are 10 private colleges/universities within 75mi of Dubuque. 10. Based on what I extensively know about 2 private colleges in other parts of the state, at least half of those 10 colleges are struggling and merging would be best. Merge and be bought by the state to have a directional smaller public university in that area(even though Iowa and UNI are both within 100mi of Dubuque.



Maybe all that talk of changing how public education in MS is a good idea, or maybe its all horrible. Whats currently happening though is hardly anything to talk about. Its a couple of middling large universities and then a bunch of afterthoughts, if they are thought of at all.







^ 17 me, the Methylphenidate is clearly in full effect right now.
Maybe so (had to look up what the meth was) but an interesting read/thoughts. Not sure how to think about all of this either but on principle it seems a state university, created and funded by the state is for the people of the state as a starting point. Of course it then gets complicated quickly as so many things do.

Leach's old school part of the 584 and what was I reading about them recently? Closing, Gov blowing them off, something.
 

horshack.sixpack

Well-known member
Oct 30, 2012
9,060
5,063
113
Released today. After we've re-entered the Croom era, I dont even have the desire to discuss. We are no longer the third worst Power 5 university in America. We are tied for last. WVU and Texas Tech moved up.

#18 Vanderbilt
#28 Florida
#32 UT Austin
#47 UGA
#47 TX A&M
#93 Auburn
#105 Tennessee
#124 Missouri
#124 Oklahoma
#124 South Car
#159 Kentucky
#163 Mississippi
#170 Alabama
#178 Arkansas
#185 LSU
#216 Miss St
I refuse to pearl clutch over rankings like this. I think it is a well trod path discussing what criteria they use and how that does/does not accurately represent true academics. The real question that is prevalent in all academia is what questions to ask? What metrics to measure to assess but not dictate the education. Everyone here with any knowledge of public schools knows that they all to often teach to the test. Should MSU be doing things to be "better" according to US News? I'm not so sure that is the case.
 

Ranchdawg

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2012
3,099
2,253
113
Released today. After we've re-entered the Croom era, I dont even have the desire to discuss. We are no longer the third worst Power 5 university in America. We are tied for last. WVU and Texas Tech moved up.

#18 Vanderbilt
#28 Florida
#32 UT Austin
#47 UGA
#47 TX A&M
#93 Auburn
#105 Tennessee
#124 Missouri
#124 Oklahoma
#124 South Car
#159 Kentucky
#163 Mississippi
#170 Alabama
#178 Arkansas
#185 LSU
#216 Miss St
And yet the average salary for State grads are higher than Old Mrs? I wonder where we would stake up against the others in this list.
 

paindonthurt

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2009
9,529
2,045
113
The methodology changed to give greater emphasis on social mobility (basically graduation rate of Pell Grant recipients). Mississippi State should be a national leader here. We aren't.
That’s not exactly true. If you could give Pell Grants to the students who actually performed well in high school vs every idiot who applied for it, it then yes we should be doing well here.
 

paindonthurt

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2009
9,529
2,045
113
This concerns me some about my daughter. She’s a sophomore at State and wants to be a physical therapist. Post graduate PT School is very competitive and even though she has straight A’s, I’m afraid some schools would look at the undergrad university rankings when deciding who to admit and that would hurt her chances.
If she makes good grades and wants to go to PT school, she’ll get in somewhere.

and if she wants to do PT, all she has to do is get in pt school somewhere and finish.
 

paindonthurt

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2009
9,529
2,045
113
Tired excuse. All the Ayers stuff has the same effect on the #163 school on the list, too (the one ranked ahead of Alabama, LSU, and Arkansas). Doesn’t hurt you nearly as much if you go harder after out of state kids from solid high schools and good economic backgrounds. Those students have higher test scores and better retention rates across the board.

We also need to tighten admissions requirements into all but the most remedial degree programs we have. Improve the structure of pre-requisite programs to force marginal students to not walk straight into an impossible course load without the necessary background in the subjects. You already have higher ACT and GPA requirements to be admitted to BCOE and perhaps a few other colleges within the university. You already have pre-tests required for a lot of the difficult freshmen classes (like Chem I for all engineering students). Need to implement similar requirements for all degree programs, prioritized for those that have the most attrition.
I don’t hate most of what you said but “socially” we’ll get blasted for that.

Why? Bc one group will be marginalized more than others.
 

Palos verdes

Member
Aug 22, 2012
1,835
30
48
Released today. After we've re-entered the Croom era, I dont even have the desire to discuss. We are no longer the third worst Power 5 university in America. We are tied for last. WVU and Texas Tech moved up.

#18 Vanderbilt
#28 Florida
#32 UT Austin
#47 UGA
#47 TX A&M
#93 Auburn
#105 Tennessee
#124 Missouri
#124 Oklahoma
#124 South Car
#159 Kentucky
#163 Mississippi
#170 Alabama
#178 Arkansas
#185 LSU
#216 Miss St
U.S. News is always gonna have us in last place, by default. It doesn't matter who the school president is. When it's Mississippi State, it's the state of Mississippi, therefore it's the worst. That's literally as far as they go.
 

IBleedMaroonDawg

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2007
23,083
7,092
113
I don't have some magic formula that will fix it but I think glfer is on the right track. All I will add is that we need to focus on the things we are strong is at and push those to the students out there across the country who are looking for a home like we have at Mississippi State. We just have to do a better job of finding and them letting them know who we are. But first of all before we start doing anything, we need to get a group together to tackle this issue and that is all that they do. Give them the money and the resources to actually do something and turn them loose.

P.S. - even though we are smarter than the average bear, you really need to focus on some younger people and don't include bring any of us older folks, except maybe to help push things along when they need to be pushed.
 

615dawg

Well-known member
Jun 4, 2007
5,439
1,010
113
U.S. News is always gonna have us in last place, by default. It doesn't matter who the school president is. When it's Mississippi State, it's the state of Mississippi, therefore it's the worst. That's literally as far as they go.
But that's not true. 20 years ago we were middle of the pack in the SEC and knocking on the door of a top 100 institution.

I agree we will never be Vanderbilt/UGA/Florida/A&M/Texas, but we can be Auburn. It will be interesting to watch what Alabama does. They had a big drop and are now way behind Auburn and UAB.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Maroon Eagle

Perd Hapley

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2022
3,464
3,712
113
MSU has proudly been, ever since I applied 25 years ago, 'the people's university'.
The mission of MSU is different from Vandy or Air Force.

I am not justifying anything. I am not excusing the ranking. I am hesitant to support the idea that this state university, which exists to improve the socioeconomic standing of its people, should stop being the school of choice and tighten acceptance requirements for the very people it was created to benefit.
Nobody is talking about becoming Vandy or Air Force, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t strive to improve our academic brand. The facts are that the university leadership doesn’t give a damn about us being the “people’s university”. Its a bullcrap marketing gimmick to allow them to do what they really want, which is collect as much tuition money as possible from as many sources as possible.

Real talk - ALL colleges and universities, MSU included, only deviate from 100% for profit private enterprise by their tax status. Otherwise, they operate the exact way and under the same motivations…..greed and money. They want more revenue to build more and more new buildings and fund more scholarships (for future wealthy donors) more tenured / distinguished professors, better sports teams, yadda yadda yadda. Its all about the bottom line, and how to improve it, all the time.

Some schools go with prestige / exclusivity to do this….low enrollment / high tuition. They are the Rolls Royce….low sales volume but outrageous profit margin per sale (or student, in this case). Vandy, Stanford, etc. Other schools like MSU try to go with an economies of scale model. Cheap tuition, anyone can get in, maximize enrollment and hope for the best on the back end. They are the Toyota Corolla….high volume / low margin. Reliable, but relatively low performance, and not flashy. So yeah, some people are tired of the “everyone gets a trophy”, entry-level stigma surrounding MSU, and consider that it might be time to carve a different perception for our academic brand.
 

The Usual Suspect

Active member
Sep 1, 2011
2,493
204
63
Wow, that al.com article sub-title tells you all you need to know about why higher education is tanking so badly. Graduating students from different backgrounds is now what they care about?

These rankings are nonsense and should be tossed aside as such.

Whether any of us like it or not, we are about 50% out of state students. I can assure you these rankings are not helpful, whether they are factual or not.
 

L4Dawg

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2016
6,241
3,471
113
But that's not true. 20 years ago we were middle of the pack in the SEC and knocking on the door of a top 100 institution.

I agree we will never be Vanderbilt/UGA/Florida/A&M/Texas, but we can be Auburn. It will be interesting to watch what Alabama does. They had a big drop and are now way behind Auburn and UAB.
We have never sniffed the Top 100. AGAIN, that is not what the real mission of MSU is.
 

L4Dawg

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2016
6,241
3,471
113
I don’t hate most of what you said but “socially” we’ll get blasted for that.

Why? Bc one group will be marginalized more than others.
There would be other in-state groups pushed out too. Students from rural areas no matter what race would be pushed out.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Get unlimited access today.

Pick the right plan for you.

Already a member? Login