Car loans top out at what - 6-7 years? Current system has folks playing student loan debts for 30 years at ridiculous interest rates. If after 10 years of car payments you owed more than you borrowed I think people would have an issue with that.
FC/OT: John Oliver lays out the student loan/debt crisis in America…
- Thread starter Midnighter
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Car loans top out at what - 6-7 years? Current system has folks playing student loan debts for 30 years at ridiculous interest rates. If after 10 years of car payments you owed more than you borrowed I think people would have an issue with that.
What kind of federal student loans can you get that will have enough left over to fund a trip to Greece? I had maybe $600 left over after tuition. These sound like private loans….
Traveling to exotic places in the world and meeting interesting people. Again, tip of the Beret to you.
I want Dean @laKavosiey-st lion to tell me his plan.
easy, family planning
1 don’t have kids if you cant afford them
2 only have 2 kids, preferably have boy kids
easy, family planning
1 don’t have kids if you cant afford them
2 only have 2 kids, preferably have boy kids
You thought school dances were awkward when girls and boys were present, imagine only boys now.
Debt forgiveness also seems to be treating the symptom, not the disease. Oliver makes some great points but a true solution going forward feels like it needs to be more comprehensive than debt forgiveness.
Repeat of a post from another thread.
When I worked at Duke University, a good friend (Duke undergrad, Duke law school, career Duke employee) observed, "Universities spend money like Cookie Monster eats cookies." I was the business manager for two departments - most departments had their own business manager. They could have cut half of us - i.e., assigned multiple departments to a single business manager - and saved a couple million dollars a year. A couple million here, a couple million there, and soon you are talking real money. Duke spent $40 million to build a parking deck that elsewhere would've cost $12-15 million. Duke has a $6 BILLION endowment and is generous with financial aid - still, many students got grants and loans.
tl;dr Higher ed finance is badly broken.
Debt forgiveness is a subsidy to Big Education, a Democratic Party constituency. It subsidizes self-centered administrators, non-virtuous teachers, and stupid trustees like Penn State’s.
Video points out every president since Eisenhower has expanded on the federal student loan program. This isn’t partisan (save debt forgiveness, which as noted, won’t solve the bigger, systemic issues with the way loans are administered and managed nor will it lower tuition rates).
I've been a free market capitalist most of my life but there are certain areas of our economy that have priced some things out of reach for many Americans without prohibitive assistance: higher ed as we are discussing, health insurance (to include dental and vision), prescription drugs, and some other necessities.
Not a fan of Big Government but imho we need a reset on certain areas.
Not a fan of Big Government but imho we need a reset on certain areas.
What kind of reset?
Community college for 2 yrs = $10k
State school for 2 yrs = $40k
Tax credits = $10k
Net cost for 4 years = $10k per year
If you go to a private university for 4 years to major in theater appreciation then cry about what Starbucks is paying you only have yourself to blame.
I agree to a certain extent, bdgan, but your post uncovers other challenges. As noted elsewhere in this thread, some (many?) young people do not understand basic finance. Again imho that begins at home. How many families are able to live within their means? Do adults understand the impact of their financial choices on their children? I understand there is a very broad spectrum of circumstances for folks so don't intend to criticize. Just saying that some behaviors are inherited and some observed. Buying a $75K Lexus vs. a $30K Chevy and then having to skimp on other things (or use debt for basic necessities) sends a message to children. In turn those children may make bad financial choices.
Again, everyone's circumstances are different and there is no one-size-fits-all solution - except maybe more prudence by all of us.
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Unless the actual - you know. COSTS (ie, Higher Ed spending) - are brought into line, all the rest is re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic (shifting the burden around to other payers, or shuffling the deck vav how one pays)
Higher Ed - at many - safe to say, most - institutions has gone completely haywire vav costs. That is obvious to anyone aside from, apparently, the folks who run Higher Ed (University leaders and Boards, The DOE, political posturers, etc).
Anything that works to rein in those costs to a defensible level? Good.
Anything that doesn't? Does no good.
It is far less hard than some make it out to be.
Higher Ed - at many - safe to say, most - institutions has gone completely haywire vav costs. That is obvious to anyone aside from, apparently, the folks who run Higher Ed (University leaders and Boards, The DOE, political posturers, etc).
Anything that works to rein in those costs to a defensible level? Good.
Anything that doesn't? Does no good.
It is far less hard than some make it out to be.
I would also attack government subsidies of higher ed. Using my Duke experience as an example (NOTE: I do not know if Duke as a private institution received fed guv'mint funds outside of grants for specific purposes such as research.) there was no incentive to save money once allocated to my departments. And, like hungry chicks, all departments competed for annual budget increases. Coming to Duke from the for-profit world, early on I suggested several cost-reduction measures - my input was NOT well-received. LOL!
And I know this is another minefield: Google sources indicate there are about 4,000 higher ed institutions in the US - that is an average of 80 (EIGHTY) per state. I get that in the horse-and-buggy days it may have been prohibitive to travel farther than 10-20 miles so that students could get home to help with the crops or whatever. But in 2024 do we really need 4,000 colleges cranking out __________ degrees ad nauseum? Again, this is not a free trade position but letting a few schools go out of business - one way to reduce government subsidies (as long as those funds are not allocated to remaining schools).
And then go to law school...
You get what you pay for or at least the illusion of a private school.
My bigger concern has always been the role of the state school and it's mission to offer higher education to those who earn it at a value price.
I don't care what people pay to attend a private school. Good for them. But I definitely care when my alma mater charges the following -- they are not fulfilling their mission.
| Penn State University Park | PA Resident | Non-PA Resident | International |
|---|---|---|---|
| Tuition and Fees | $19,672 | $39,626 | $41,126 |
| Room and Meals | $12,984 | $12,984 | $12,984 |
| TOTAL | $32,656 | $52,610 | $54,110 |
FWIW:
As of next year, the price for PA kids - who are upperclassmen in Business or Engineering colleges, with standard "2 to a room" dorms - will top $40K.
(and the likelihood of grants/scholarships from PSU are what they are - not much)
$40K/yr for in-state.
Raritan Valley Community College (our Hunterdon Central cc go to) charges 180 per credit and is in lock step with Rutgers which carries over EVERY credit after earning an associates on way to a Rutgers bachelors.
So if you poors insist on ignoring the ricks family plan, your sons can work 20 hours per week, live at home for free and pay for the first 2 years of college $180 per times 60 credits (maths) I got $10,800 then years 3 and 4 at R
So if you poors insist on ignoring the ricks family plan, your sons can work 20 hours per week, live at home for free and pay for the first 2 years of college $180 per times 60 credits (maths) I got $10,800 then years 3 and 4 at R
I think being responsible IS a one size fits all solution. I agree that a lot of parents/kids don't understand basic financial management. Some simply don't care. Regardless, I don't think it's right to put their irresponsibility on the backs of their fellow citizens.
Do you feel the same when the government bails out the auto industry, farmers, banks, and small businesses? Just checking.
1 got 25 from schreyers and 2 got 15 for not sure why lol
Can we just acknowledge that they didn’t really bail out farmers other than big corporate farms. But I get your point.
My biggest issue with the loan forgiveness is that many of these kids could pay much more of it back, but choose not to due to fiscal irresponsibility. How many of them paid thousands of dollars to go on spring break trips or buy a seven dollar drink from Starbucks every day? I mentor teachers who have spent over $120,000 to get a teaching degree that will pay them no more than $50,000 to start. The same people spend $10 every morning for breakfast at Dunkin or Starbucks and then need to live in Fed Hill or one of the other more expensive young people area of the city rather than rent a place in Catonsville or Owings Mills. Spend 15 extra minutes driving every day and don’t go out every weekend and instead you’ve got a couple hundred extra dollars a month to pay off that loan.
I stay out of 1s and GFs finances, she has a student loan, he does not. Are they eating drinking and traveling with reckless abandonment all while working their asses off? Yep a little bit.
I don’t have a problem with that as long as they acknowledge that that’s their choice. The teachers and people I know that I’m talking about whine about it as if every single person who has paid off their loans had some sort of unfair advantage when the reality is most of them did have less debt, but they also worked to pay it off at a better rate than the current crop does
I understand what you’re saying. I had a conversation a year ago with 1 about this student loan payback BS and he DID use the word unfair as it applied to his live in GF and those with no debt had a leg up. I just smiled at him as he realized he’s mad at people like him. And he said thank you of course lol (he’s a D of course the hippy MF er)
Not going to bite on your very feeble attempt to turn the Tom Board into your new Testes Board.
I found your use of the phrase “Loan Administration Companies” somewhat interesting.
I’ll stop now
No doubt PSU is expensive. In state tuition at Iowa is $10k. Florida and Florida State tuition approximately $6k.
The worst part is that our academic rankings have fallen as tuition has risen.
This is a frequent topic of discussion here - the student loan issue isn’t political; notice this thread has been clean and full of a good exchange of ideas until you decided it wasn’t. But, stopping while you’re ahead is probably a good thing. See you in the fire Franklin threads!
*Guess I should have said ‘student loan servicing’ companies….
For the most part yes.
I didn't support bailing out GM. They would have survived even if it meant a chapter 11 reorganization or being acquired.
I think government policies were largely responsible for the financial crisis but once it occurred they had little choice to do what you call bailouts. I don't consider them bailouts because: 1) The banks were forced to take the money, and 2) The government was paid back with interest. I definitely opposed the bailout of SVB depositors beyond the FDIC limits.
The real issue is the affordability of higher education. The proposed solutions are definitely political.
I don't like loan forgiveness for several reasons. It's unfair to those who paid off their loans. It's unfair to taxpayers who are left holding the bag to pay for others. It doesn't solve the problem of high costs.
Would it be possible to cherry pick the most deserving. For example, let’s not pay Sebastian’s gender studies debt but instead pay Mary’s accounting degree debt, but only if she’s employed in her field of study.
Yes great idea...that would drive a decision tree for sure!
In the end everything that is discussed here is too much enablement and the easy way out. Whether enablement comes from the government or parents....extended adolescence...
I think of things like this--90% of people rely on the 10%.... think about that? I am in the 10% since I was 18 yrs old left for the Army, then PSU and ever since been on my own.....wish I was part of the 90%.
Oh how did I get to PSU not being from PA?? HMMM....I was in the ARMY knew I wanted to go to a great school..hmmm...I learned without the internet in 1993-1994 hmmm..wow there are 3 states in the union that pay 50% of the tuition if you are a resident. I went to the PAC office--changed my residency with 1 form to PA...paid PA taxes...applied to PSU as a PA resident...$5,000 back then I dont remember--50% of that and I got $850/month GI Bill...and waited tables 4 times a week...choices tuff choices....yes I got some enablement you could say....but I earned it-I think
It’s a matter of what the estimated net vote gain/loss is to each person with a vote in the policy. To think anything else is ludicrous.
I agree - the real issue is cost. Mixed feelings on forgiveness (I mean, I enlisted to pay off my loans) but it won’t completely solve the issue if and until there is a different system. You need some combination of lower costs, more financial literacy, a ‘check’ on borrowing amounts vs. potential outcomes, and better, more transparent servicing companies with repayment options that are attainable. I heard recently that 1 in 7 Harvard/Stanford MBA grads are unemployed.
Very true, the number one issue in all of us is at colleges to expensive at many places. What Penn State has done with her tuition rates is ridiculous.
That's only half the equation though. Employers want people with degrees, I've said it several times in this thread. But they don't want to pay the people who got the degrees. Wages haven't kept up as the cost of living has continued to increase dramatically. Throw that on top of a massive student debt load and it is easy to see why people are asking for help.
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