FC/OT: Math is hard. For everyone it seems.

[Midnighter]

New article from the NYT about American test scores in an international exam. If anything, we overemphasize math with our kids. It’s paying off but we do it year round.
——
Math scores in the United States tumbled from an average of 478 (of 1,000) in 2018 to 465 in 2022. The 2022 score was 18 points lower than in 2003, the year the exam was first taken.

Iceland, Norway, Poland and Slovenia — described as traditionally high-performing — had even higher double-digit drops in math, the analysis said. “The whole world is struggling in math,” Carr said. The U.S. result was just below two other U.S. low points, in 2006 and 2015.

For the United States, the brighter news was that reading and science performance held steady. Scores showed no significant change from 2018 to 2022, according to the findings, which Carr said provided “some cause for hope” about recovery. Those findings track some assessments given domestically.

 

[Nitt1300]

AI will make math unnecessary, then it will kill us.

 

[LionJim]

AI will make math unnecessary, then it will kill us.

Maybe, but I’ll have my pencil in hand until the very end. it’s my refuge from all the ails in the world.

As to the OP, it’s not surprising. To become good at math you need to be around others who are skilled at math and you have to put time into it. (I’m the second-best mathematician, at best, from my high-school graduating class. Neshaminy was lousy with really good math students when I was there. As much of a misfit as I was at Neshaminy, I got a terrific education there. And I was never bullied, just saying.)

 

[PSUFTG2]

New article from the NYT about American test scores in an international exam. If anything, we overemphasize math with our kids. It’s paying off but we do it year round.
——
Math scores in the United States tumbled from an average of 478 (of 1,000) in 2018 to 465 in 2022. The 2022 score was 18 points lower than in 2003, the year the exam was first taken.

Iceland, Norway, Poland and Slovenia — described as traditionally high-performing — had even higher double-digit drops in math, the analysis said. “The whole world is struggling in math,” Carr said. The U.S. result was just below two other U.S. low points, in 2006 and 2015.

For the United States, the brighter news was that reading and science performance held steady. Scores showed no significant change from 2018 to 2022, according to the findings, which Carr said provided “some cause for hope” about recovery. Those findings track some assessments given domestically.

I am guessing that "testing" was of older kids (HS, basically), because from what I have seen and followed that level of drop off is a vast underestimation of the problem. Though the drop offs listed are disconcerting enough.
The largest drop offs - by far - over the last couple years were in the Elementary/Middle levels (for any number of reasons - which are better left undiscussed here). Those kids - barring a miracle - are going to be setting records for lack of ability unlike anything we have ever seen.

We already have college campuses loaded with remedial classes in math (AND english and other courses). Kids accepted into reasonable universities, without the basic competencies one would expect to be a given coming out of high school.
Take a look (it is public info) at the matrix of offered courses at PSU when the fall schedules come out. The number of sections of remedial courses is stunning...... and they fill up.
That certainly isn't a problem solely at PSU. And it will get worse before it gets better.

Some might know that I was part of a group running for the local school board here. One of the prime reasons was the drastic drop off in academic performance (OTTOMH, I think our district - one of the most well-funded and supported in the state - saw a 20+% drop in the percentage of middle school kids testing as proficient). The educational system in this country needs to get its sh^t together... yesterday. Watching the clown show performance put on by the presidents of our supposed top-end universities in yesterday's testimony before congress does not stoke a lot of hope.

 

[Midnighter]

I am guessing that "testing" was of older kids (HS, basically), because from what I have seen and followed that level of drop off is a vast underestimation of the problem. Though the drop offs listed are disconcerting enough.
The largest drop offs - by far - over the last couple years were in the Elementary/Middle levels (for any number of reasons - which are better left undiscussed here). Those kids - barring a miracle - are going to be setting records for lack of ability unlike anything we have ever seen.

We already have college campuses loaded with remedial classes in math (AND english and other courses). Kids accepted into reasonable universities, without the basic competencies one would expect to be a given coming out of high school.
Take a look (it is public info) at the matrix of offered courses at PSU when the fall schedules come out. The number of sections of remedial courses is stunning...... and they fill up.
That certainly isn't a problem solely at PSU. And it will get worse before it gets better.

Some might know that I was part of a group running for the local school board here. One of the prime reasons was the drastic drop off in academic performance (OTTOMH, I think our district - one of the most well-funded and supported in the state - saw a 20+% drop in the percentage of middle school kids testing as proficient). The educational system in this country needs to get its sh^t together... yesterday. Watching the clown show performance put on by the presidents of our supposed top-end universities in yesterday's testimony before congress does not stoke a lot of hope.

Sorry - it was 15 year olds.

 

[PSU_Lions_84]

I retired after four decades in finance and now have a couple day a week gig at local Walmart deli. The rotisserie chickens are supposed to weigh at least 36 ounces, so we randomly test a couple after cooking. The scales are digital. Some of the younger associates were rejecting chickens because the digital scale showed them to be less than 2.4 pounds. I've tried to point out that 36 ounces is 2 lbs, 4 oz - or 2.25 pounds. Based on the expressions on their faces, the message is not resonating.

At least the local consumers are benefitting from their math errors . . .

 

[Catch1lion]

My kid was a TA, and then took over the last few weeks teaching a 5 credit honors engineering class . Some really bright kids , but a fair number didn’t get it and had to drop out. Usual drop rate for this class is around 10%. Doubled this year to 20%. Many of the students are not prepared due to the impact of COVID modifications on their HS curriculum. Maths is hard .

 

[PSUFTG2]

My kid was a TA, and then took over the last few weeks teaching a 5 credit honors engineering class . Some really bright kids , but a fair number didn’t get it and had to drop out. Usual drop rate for this class is around 10%. Doubled this year to 20%. Many of the students are not prepared due to the impact of COVID modifications on their HS curriculum. Maths is hard .

Not surprised.
Since PSU dropped standardized testing (many others have as well, so it is not solely a PSU problem), the "Drop" and "Fail" rates (and academic probation rates, etc) are vastly higher for those who did not submit test scores.
No desire to get into the crazy discussions about standardized tests - but if one can show they can do basic calculus, you at least know there is some level of potential to do the work. Without it? It is a crap shoot. And nationwide the results to date show exactly what any reasonable person would have expected.

 

[Bison13]

Not really as a surprise due to some of the things mentioned but also because we don’t teach kids to be resilient. We just give them whatever they want and if they do poorly, we give them a 50% or will we let them redo it without truly understanding what they Were supposed to learn. We no longer give midterms or final exams, so the kids never have to have any kind of long-term memory for math concepts.
Combine that with the amount of young elementary school teachers who repeatedly say things to their classes like, “it’s OK to not like math, I didn’t like it when I was in school either “ and you have kids with bad attitudes about math

 

[Catch1lion]

I retired after four decades in finance and now have a couple day a week gig at local Walmart deli. The rotisserie chickens are supposed to weigh at least 36 ounces, so we randomly test a couple after cooking. The scales are digital. Some of the younger associates were rejecting chickens because the digital scale showed them to be less than 2.4 pounds. I've tried to point out that 36 ounces is 2 lbs, 4 oz - or 2.25 pounds. Based on the expressions on their faces, the message is not resonating.

At least the local consumers are benefitting from their math errors . . .

I don’t know if you came across this article …..

The A&W Third Pounder Failed Because People Didn’t Understand Fractions

What’s bigger? A quarter of a pound? Or a third?

bettermarketing.pub

 

[PSU_Lions_84]

I don’t know if you came across this article …..

The A&W Third Pounder Failed Because People Didn’t Understand Fractions

What’s bigger? A quarter of a pound? Or a third?

bettermarketing.pub

Thanks for sharing that story, Catch1lion. Never saw it before. I guess it shows people have wrestled with fractions for quite a while.

I used to be pretty good at mental math. At one place where I worked I was on a committee with a young lady who had a mathematics undergraduate degree. Can't remember the topic under discussion but it involved math. At one point I turned to her and said, "With your math degree, you should be solving these questions." She looked down her nose at me and said, "This is not math - it's arithmetic." Well-played, young lady!

 

[PSU Mike]

Thanks for sharing that story, Catch1lion. Never saw it before. I guess it shows people have wrestled with fractions for quite a while.

I used to be pretty good at mental math. At one place where I worked I was on a committee with a young lady who had a mathematics undergraduate degree. Can't remember the topic under discussion but it involved math. At one point I turned to her and said, "With your math degree, you should be solving these questions." She looked down her nose at me and said, "This is not math - it's arithmetic." Well-played, young lady!

So she couldn’t answer those questions?

 

[BobPSU92]

We, as a society, have advanced past MATHS. .

 

[PSU_Lions_84]

So she couldn’t answer those questions?

Not many. I think we were trying to reconfigure floor space after office renovations. Cubicle sizes were defined by employee grade level, so questions were something like, "How many 10x8 foot cubicles can fit into 10,000 square feet?" It then got a little more complicated because it was like X number of 10x8's, Y number of 10x10's, Z number of 10x12's, and so on. More like algebra, I guess.

 

[BiochemPSU]

Honestly, it’s the teachers and the parents fault. Most parents aren’t good at math, never were good at math, and never bothered to get better at math. Shocking that their kids suck at it since it isn’t emphasized at home. Reading is, but that comes easy for an adult and you use that skill every day. When was the last time you found the circumference of a circle (or cared)?

Most teachers who picked education majors in college picked the major because it had really basic math requirements. Even my wife with a four year double non-math major runs away from my kids 3rd grade math homework because she “doesn’t get it”. Translation, I don’t want to put the work in to figure it out.

now what we do is just throw it all at them as fast as we can and see what sticks. We then load up on homework that tries to just repetition the crap out it and hope that by turn 965 they get it. Most tuned out after turn 10. Conversely, reading gets projects and plays and hands on fun because teachers and parents like that better. Math isn’t nearly as hands on fun, unless you want it to be.

 

[SouthHalls410]

What I see as a teacher…. Students spend little time on basic math facts, use calculators way too early ( yes one can use a calculator but you also have to understand why you’re calculating), teaching to the tests PSSA, Keystones etc. Kids are using things such as fotomath to do homework and then have no idea what they’re doing on a test. They don’t know how to apply math I could go on and on….

 

[SouthHalls410]

Honestly, it’s the teachers and the parents fault. Most parents aren’t good at math, never were good at math, and never bothered to get better at math. Shocking that their kids suck at it since it isn’t emphasized at home. Reading is, but that comes easy for an adult and you use that skill every day. When was the last time you found the circumference of a circle (or cared)?

Most teachers who picked education majors in college picked the major because it had really basic math requirements. Even my wife with a four year double non-math major runs away from my kids 3rd grade math homework because she “doesn’t get it”. Translation, I don’t want to put the work in to figure it out.

now what we do is just throw it all at them as fast as we can and see what sticks. We then load up on homework that tries to just repetition the crap out it and hope that by turn 965 they get it. Most tuned out after turn 10. Conversely, reading gets projects and plays and hands on fun because teachers and parents like that better. Math isn’t nearly as hands on fun, unless you want it to be.

Wow. How about going in the classroom for one week and see if you still react this way… spoken like everyone else who blames the teachers… how about blame the standards, blame the low reading levels.… have you seen the constructed response questions on these exams. Yes let’s just blame the teachers….

 

[troutrus]

I retired after four decades in finance and now have a couple day a week gig at local Walmart deli. The rotisserie chickens are supposed to weigh at least 36 ounces, so we randomly test a couple after cooking. The scales are digital. Some of the younger associates were rejecting chickens because the digital scale showed them to be less than 2.4 pounds. I've tried to point out that 36 ounces is 2 lbs, 4 oz - or 2.25 pounds. Based on the expressions on their faces, the message is not resonating.

At least the local consumers are benefitting from their math errors . . .

Gotchya!
I’ve come to find that fractions do not convert to the decimal system very well where I live in North Carolina. If I want 3/4 pound of ham at our local grocery stores I’ve learned to ask for .75 pound if I expect it to be even close. 12 ounces doesn’t seem to register either.

 

[NoSoup4U]

Maybe, but I’ll have my pencil in hand until the very end. it’s my refuge from all the ails in the world.

As to the OP, it’s not surprising. To become good at math you need to be around others who are skilled at math and you have to put time into it. (I’m the second-best mathematician, at best, from my high-school graduating class. Neshaminy was lousy with really good math students when I was there. As much of a misfit as I was at Neshaminy, I got a terrific education there. And I was never bullied, just saying.)

Ah but you had the mascot that was not PC. so you had that goin for ya

but hey i cant say much being an "other side of the track"s... er Neshaminy mall..... Owl

 

[maypole]

Ah but you had the mascot that was not PC. so you had that goin for ya

but hey i cant say much being an "other side of the track"s... er Neshaminy mall..... Owl

PC?

 

[Bvillebaron]

New article from the NYT about American test scores in an international exam. If anything, we overemphasize math with our kids. It’s paying off but we do it year round.
——
Math scores in the United States tumbled from an average of 478 (of 1,000) in 2018 to 465 in 2022. The 2022 score was 18 points lower than in 2003, the year the exam was first taken.

Iceland, Norway, Poland and Slovenia — described as traditionally high-performing — had even higher double-digit drops in math, the analysis said. “The whole world is struggling in math,” Carr said. The U.S. result was just below two other U.S. low points, in 2006 and 2015.

For the United States, the brighter news was that reading and science performance held steady. Scores showed no significant change from 2018 to 2022, according to the findings, which Carr said provided “some cause for hope” about recovery. Those findings track some assessments given domestically.

Except for John Urschel I guess

 

[BiochemPSU]

Wow. How about going in the classroom for one week and see if you still react this way… spoken like everyone else who blames the teachers… how about blame the standards, blame the low reading levels.… have you seen the constructed response questions on these exams. Yes let’s just blame the teachers….

I live in the “great” state of Florida where the governor is doing everything he can to make our public school kids look like absolute morons for some dry run for some future White House campaign. I’ve seen the tests and the materials that his clowns came up with and it’s purposely designed to make teachers, kids, and administrators look like fools. My kids are two of his pawns right now. Nothing I can do, so No argument there as to testing and standards.

I know there are crap ton of great teachers out there. I was raised by two of them. However, we are talking about math specifically. Most of them want nothing to do with math because they were bad at it as students and actively avoided it at the collegiate or graduate level. And the post secondary education they received allowed for it. The overwhelming majority of the really good math folks don't go into the classroom. So you have a disconnect with the production of educators that isn’t bridged by the parents because the parents were also bad at math as students and likely avoided improvement post high school as well. I even threw my own family under the bus on that one. I’m not saying blame teachers because they are teachers, I am saying blame people who are bad at math and avoided getting better at it when give access to higher education for becoming teachers (and parents).

 

[PSU_Lions_84]

Gotchya!
I’ve come to find that fractions do not convert to the decimal system very well where I live in North Carolina. If I want 3/4 pound of ham at our local grocery stores I’ve learned to ask for .75 pound if I expect it to be even close. 12 ounces doesn’t seem to register either.

We might be neighbors - I live on the outskirts of the Triad.

 

[PSU_Lions_84]

Wow. How about going in the classroom for one week and see if you still react this way… spoken like everyone else who blames the teachers… how about blame the standards, blame the low reading levels.… have you seen the constructed response questions on these exams. Yes let’s just blame the teachers….

I liked your and Biochemistry comments, SouthHalls410, because there is much truth in both views. Math seems to be the ugly stepchild in education for many of the reasons you two stated. It's sad. My degree is in American Studies, which looks at things holistically. Math can be (should be, imho) incorporated into all subjects, rather than be taught separately. My younger son violently dislikes math in large part because of how it was taught in school. Wife and I were unsuccessful in offsetting the boring approach. Not blaming - just pointing out that isolating math seems to impede learning it.

 

[SouthHalls410]

I liked your and Biochemistry comments, SouthHalls410, because there is much truth in both views. Math seems to be the ugly stepchild in education for many of the reasons you two stated. It's sad. My degree is in American Studies, which looks at things holistically. Math can be (should be, imho) incorporated into all subjects, rather than be taught separately. My younger son violently dislikes math in large part because of how it was taught in school. Wife and I were unsuccessful in offsetting the boring approach. Not blaming - just pointing out that isolating math seems to impede learning it.

I agree about using math across the curricula. However, standardized testing has made that all but impossible for now. New thing on the horizon is the hope that finance math will be a graduation requirement in most states. I totally agree with learning math facts at a young age and apply the math in the later grades when their brains are more developed and can handle it a bit better.

 

[Midnighter]

I live in the “great” state of Florida where the governor is doing everything he can to make our public school kids look like absolute morons for some dry run for some future White House campaign. I’ve seen the tests and the materials that his clowns came up with and it’s purposely designed to make teachers, kids, and administrators look like fools. My kids are two of his pawns right now. Nothing I can do, so No argument there as to testing and standards.

I know there are crap ton of great teachers out there. I was raised by two of them. However, we are talking about math specifically. Most of them want nothing to do with math because they were bad at it as students and actively avoided it at the collegiate or graduate level. And the post secondary education they received allowed for it. The overwhelming majority of the really good math folks don't go into the classroom. So you have a disconnect with the production of educators that isn’t bridged by the parents because the parents were also bad at math as students and likely avoided improvement post high school as well. I even threw my own family under the bus on that one. I’m not saying blame teachers because they are teachers, I am saying blame people who are bad at math and avoided getting better at it when give access to higher education for becoming teachers (and parents).

The program at my kids' school is Singapore Math, which is more about strategies to solve problems by re-grouping and breaking down numbers/problems instead of rote memorization (which is how I learned). It has a steep learning curve but once you 'get it' the kids seem to do pretty well with it. Daughter has always been a bit math averse but she's warming up to it; still, we do a once a week private session with a school teacher and in the summer she has a packet to work on (mastering previous year's work and learning a bit about what's to come). Even with all that her test scores weren't high enough in math for the Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth summer math program (but she did score high enough on the written/verbal test to take the language arts and history/social sciences courses, which she will be doing for a second year this summer).

 

[Catch1lion]

The program at my kids' school is Singapore Math, which is more about strategies to solve problems by re-grouping and breaking down numbers/problems instead of rote memorization (which is how I learned). It has a steep learning curve but once you 'get it' the kids seem to do pretty well with it. Daughter has always been a bit math averse but she's warming up to it; still, we do a once a week private session with a school teacher and in the summer she has a packet to work on (mastering previous year's work and learning a bit about what's to come). Even with all that her test scores weren't high enough in math for the Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth summer math program (but she did score high enough on the written/verbal test to take the language arts courses, which she will be doing for a second year this summer).

What's the killer NAQT HS quiz bowl team in VA? I would try and copy that school.

 

[Midnighter]

What's the killer NAQT HS quiz bowl team in VA? I would try and copy that school.

Is it Thomas Jefferson School for Science and Technology? That's sort of a one of one; we wanted a well-rounded school (high academics, sports, music/extracurriculars) - this is on the front page of TJ's website:

Mental Health Resources: 24/7 Emergency Numbers​

• Life Threatening Emergency
  Call 911
• Suicide and Crisis Lifeline
  Text or call 988

 

[s1uggo72]

I retired after four decades in finance and now have a couple day a week gig at local Walmart deli. The rotisserie chickens are supposed to weigh at least 36 ounces, so we randomly test a couple after cooking. The scales are digital. Some of the younger associates were rejecting chickens because the digital scale showed them to be less than 2.4 pounds. I've tried to point out that 36 ounces is 2 lbs, 4 oz - or 2.25 pounds. Based on the expressions on their faces, the message is not resonating.

At least the local consumers are benefitting from their math errors . . .

in the summers in college I worked for a land surveyor. I was the low man on a 3 man crew. the crew chief said we had to stake a grid out in yards. He saidn, Shouldnt be too hard, the onlyest thing we had to figure out was how many feet in a yard. The number 2 man said 'dont it matter if its the front yard or the back yard?' I laughed and said we should just try 3' and take it from there!!

 

[Bison13]

I live in the “great” state of Florida where the governor is doing everything he can to make our public school kids look like absolute morons for some dry run for some future White House campaign. I’ve seen the tests and the materials that his clowns came up with and it’s purposely designed to make teachers, kids, and administrators look like fools. My kids are two of his pawns right now. Nothing I can do, so No argument there as to testing and standards.

I know there are crap ton of great teachers out there. I was raised by two of them. However, we are talking about math specifically. Most of them want nothing to do with math because they were bad at it as students and actively avoided it at the collegiate or graduate level. And the post secondary education they received allowed for it. The overwhelming majority of the really good math folks don't go into the classroom. So you have a disconnect with the production of educators that isn’t bridged by the parents because the parents were also bad at math as students and likely avoided improvement post high school as well. I even threw my own family under the bus on that one. I’m not saying blame teachers because they are teachers, I am saying blame people who are bad at math and avoided getting better at it when give access to higher education for becoming teachers (and parents).

I'd take the FL curriculum ove MD right now and MD is supposed to be one of the top couple states in Ed, its awful....

Is it Thomas Jefferson School for Science and Technology? That's sort of a one of one; we wanted a well-rounded school (high academics, sports, music/extracurriculars) - this is on the front page of TJ's website:

Mental Health Resources: 24/7 Emergency Numbers​

• Life Threatening Emergency
  Call 911
• Suicide and Crisis Lifeline
  Text or call 988

I've been to workshops and worked with teachers from TJ. Magnet school where you have to test in, so you automatically get rid of the riff raff and kids can learn without distraction. PLus most of the kids are from well off families or a culture of learning where they are expected to be high achievers. Easy to be rated the best HS when you have a top group of kids who have complete backing at home and tutors for everything

 

[Catch1lion]

I'd take the FL curriculum ove MD right now and MD is supposed to be one of the top couple states in Ed, its awful....


I've been to workshops and worked with teachers from TJ. Magnet school where you have to test in, so you automatically get rid of the riff raff and kids can learn without distraction. PLus most of the kids are from well off families or a culture of learning where they are expected to be high achievers. Easy to be rated the best HS when you have a top group of kids who have complete backing at home and tutors for everything

My son’s public school finished top 25 in nationals for NAQT a few years ago. They were the top true traditional public school . The rest were charter schools or private schools . TJ always rocks it . They blasted our squad, my son said IDK if we answered one question. Parents have a lot of work to do to sort out the process . Glad mine are well on their way . It’s only getting harder .

 

[Midnighter]

I'd take the FL curriculum ove MD right now and MD is supposed to be one of the top couple states in Ed, its awful....


I've been to workshops and worked with teachers from TJ. Magnet school where you have to test in, so you automatically get rid of the riff raff and kids can learn without distraction. PLus most of the kids are from well off families or a culture of learning where they are expected to be high achievers. Easy to be rated the best HS when you have a top group of kids who have complete backing at home and tutors for everything

It's an academic grinder for sure. We know some families and their kids are getting full rides to USC in neuroscience in10th grade. But, I believe they compromise on the rest of the stuff we find important - athletics, art, literature, music, social/emotional well being, etc. Our private is a top DMV private and the academics are very tough - lots of kids go to Ivies and other top schools. But, it's a microcosm of parents who a) can afford tuition, and b) are extremely involved in the academic affairs of their kids. My nieces go to a top public in Bucks County and say they hate school because one or two kids will ruin privileges for everyone. Sucks.

 

[BiochemPSU]

I'd take the FL curriculum ove MD right now and MD is supposed to be one of the top couple states in Ed, its awful....


I've been to workshops and worked with teachers from TJ. Magnet school where you have to test in, so you automatically get rid of the riff raff and kids can learn without distraction. PLus most of the kids are from well off families or a culture of learning where they are expected to be high achievers. Easy to be rated the best HS when you have a top group of kids who have complete backing at home and tutors for everything

I can't speak for MD, but FL is intentionally trying to destroy public education. They want me to pay their private school buddies whatever they demand or risk having my kids look like "poor idiots" who came out of the florida public education system. The whole school (k-5), which is an "A" rated school, just bombed the mid-year standard statewide assessment for reading that the state just installed this year. You should see what they ask these kids to do on this exam, it's beyond any of them and is absolute garbage for measuring anything. I struggled with a few of the practice take home questions. And I have 7 years of post HS education (only 4 were undergrad before I get snark).

I also had the pleasure of doing a take-home reading sheet this week with my 3rd grader about a "brave" confederate woman who spied on the Union and dressed like a man to fight against them in the civil war. I had no idea who this traitorous idiot was. But don't take my word for it that she is an idiot and absolutely worthy of banishment to the toilet bowl of human history, apparently her entire account was called into question by even confederate generals at the time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loreta_Janeta_Velázquez. That's what I am dealing with from the "great" state of Florida.

 

[PSUFTG2]

My son’s public school finished top 25 in nationals for NAQT a few years ago. They were the top true traditional public school . The rest were charter schools or private schools . TJ always rocks it . They blasted our squad, my son said IDK if we answered one question. Parents have a lot of work to do to sort out the process . Glad mine are well on their way . It’s only getting harder .

No doubt.
The ability for your children to receive a quality K-12 education in this country is (rapidly) becoming a "privilege" for those who can afford it (Each district can vary, of course - and there are still some very high quality public districts, but that number is dwindling).
There have always been disparities in educational quality depending on resources and $. In some cases, very stark and disheartening disparities. For many years, the overall quality was increasing (and disparity in quality being reduced). In recent years, the quality is falling off a cliff, and the disparity (not just between public districts, but even more so by more and more "privileged" members of society opting out of public schools) is widening dramatically.
Most of those who can afford to opt out really don't have the energy to care about those who can't (a natural reaction and reasonable reaction, in most cases, of course).

 

[ApexLion]

New article from the NYT about American test scores in an international exam. If anything, we overemphasize math with our kids. It’s paying off but we do it year round.
——
Math scores in the United States tumbled from an average of 478 (of 1,000) in 2018 to 465 in 2022. The 2022 score was 18 points lower than in 2003, the year the exam was first taken.

Iceland, Norway, Poland and Slovenia — described as traditionally high-performing — had even higher double-digit drops in math, the analysis said. “The whole world is struggling in math,” Carr said. The U.S. result was just below two other U.S. low points, in 2006 and 2015.

For the United States, the brighter news was that reading and science performance held steady. Scores showed no significant change from 2018 to 2022, according to the findings, which Carr said provided “some cause for hope” about recovery. Those findings track some assessments given domestically.

50 parents here in Chapel Hill picketed (literally people with signs on wooden stakes) my daughters' high school over....wait for it and I'm not kidding/joking:


Over math instruction


Similar protest over in Wake County link.

again, I'm not kidding

 

[ApexLion]

The program at my kids' school is Singapore Math, which is more about strategies to solve problems by re-grouping and breaking down numbers/problems instead of rote memorization (which is how I learned). It has a steep learning curve but once you 'get it' the kids seem to do pretty well with it. Daughter has always been a bit math averse but she's warming up to it; still, we do a once a week private session with a school teacher and in the summer she has a packet to work on (mastering previous year's work and learning a bit about what's to come). Even with all that her test scores weren't high enough in math for the Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth summer math program (but she did score high enough on the written/verbal test to take the language arts and history/social sciences courses, which she will be doing for a second year this summer).

My neighbors would picket your Singapore Math.

 

[bdgan]

What I see as a teacher…. Students spend little time on basic math facts, use calculators way too early ( yes one can use a calculator but you also have to understand why you’re calculating)

Funny you should say that. More than 30 years ago I ran an office where too many mistakes were made. The reason was that the workers didn't understand the task because the computer did the calculations. A few times I made them do it manually. Once they understood the task I allowed them to go back to the computer (which should be a tool, not a crutch).

 

[Midnighter]

My neighbors would picket your Singapore Math.

Maybe the kids should work harder? I mean, test scores in the 40's and 50's? Yikes.

 

[IrishHerb]

Maybe, but I’ll have my pencil in hand until the very end. it’s my refuge from all the ails in the world.

As to the OP, it’s not surprising. To become good at math you need to be around others who are skilled at math and you have to put time into it. (I’m the second-best mathematician, at best, from my high-school graduating class. Neshaminy was lousy with really good math students when I was there. As much of a misfit as I was at Neshaminy, I got a terrific education there. And I was never bullied, just saying.)

Who was the best? Juan?

 

[LionJim]

Who was the best? Juan?

Yeah.