FC/OT: Someone did a pile driver in an ACC wrestling match…
- Thread starter Midnighter
- Start date
Man, oh man. That looked like a dangerous move.
The person that tweeted it out is a tad dramatic.
I've watched thousands of college wrestling matches. I have never seen that sequence, and I think the ref was also somewhat fishing for how to react.
The ref stopped the match and signaled for an Illegal Hold (which is 1 point to the opponent).
It could have been ruled Unnecessary Roughness, which also would have been 1 point to the opponent.
It could also have been ruled Flagrant Misconduct. That would have 1) given the match to the Pitt wrestler, 2) deducted 1 team point from NC State in the match, and 3) the disqualification of the NC State wrestler for the meet and the removal of them from the premises.
If the NC State wrestler had lifted the Pitt wrestler high off his feet, and then brought him to the mat fast and on the top of his head, it would have been either Unnecessary Roughness or Flagrant Misconduct (depending on how high the Pitt wrestler was lifted and how hard he was driven into the mat). What the NC State wrestler did wasn't an illegal hold (those are specified in the rule book, with pictures of each of them). My suspicion is that the ref was kind of stunned as he'd never seen the sequence before. Because the Pitt wrestler wasn't lifted very high, and because he was dropped and not driven to the mat, as well as it having taken place from a common wrestling position with an uncommon action taking place, I think the ref was trying to find something to call, and that's what he settled on (and had less than a second to make a call). There are a few moves than are similar that are illegal holds, so it's possible that's how the ref reached their decision.
I think the below gives a better view of the sequence:
I've watched thousands of college wrestling matches. I have never seen that sequence, and I think the ref was also somewhat fishing for how to react.
The ref stopped the match and signaled for an Illegal Hold (which is 1 point to the opponent).
It could have been ruled Unnecessary Roughness, which also would have been 1 point to the opponent.
It could also have been ruled Flagrant Misconduct. That would have 1) given the match to the Pitt wrestler, 2) deducted 1 team point from NC State in the match, and 3) the disqualification of the NC State wrestler for the meet and the removal of them from the premises.
If the NC State wrestler had lifted the Pitt wrestler high off his feet, and then brought him to the mat fast and on the top of his head, it would have been either Unnecessary Roughness or Flagrant Misconduct (depending on how high the Pitt wrestler was lifted and how hard he was driven into the mat). What the NC State wrestler did wasn't an illegal hold (those are specified in the rule book, with pictures of each of them). My suspicion is that the ref was kind of stunned as he'd never seen the sequence before. Because the Pitt wrestler wasn't lifted very high, and because he was dropped and not driven to the mat, as well as it having taken place from a common wrestling position with an uncommon action taking place, I think the ref was trying to find something to call, and that's what he settled on (and had less than a second to make a call). There are a few moves than are similar that are illegal holds, so it's possible that's how the ref reached their decision.
I think the below gives a better view of the sequence:
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All valid points Tom. However, just because it hasn’t been encountered before or isn’t specifically addressed in the rule book, doesn’t make it less egregious. It’s a dirty move and could have very easily warranted disqualification. Everyone in that gym and every one of us looking at it now, know it is an unorthodox sequence of events and one that isn’t within the etiquette of folk style wrestling. Look at the reaction of Trumble’s own teammate in the background. He is visibly stunned by the move. You are correct by assessing that Trumble doesn’t lift the Pitt wrestler excessively high off the ground, but what he does do is keep Bonnacorsi’s (sp?) head between his knees and then he leaves his feet to drive his head into the mat. Not cool. I think a discussion regarding disqualification was warranted here. This reminds me somewhat of the Gilman illegal slam with a wrestler on his back. Not conventional call to make, but clearly not within the normal sequence of a folk style wrestling match.
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What makes this "move" conceptually (and "legally") different than something like a fireman's carry? Especially when you're teaching the "Kelly finish" version as shown in the video below? If the opponent doesn't want to "go along" with the fireman's carry throw, and he doesn't allow you to tuck and roll him, that's a serious neck/head issue waiting to happen. Does the carrying wrestler get docked a point (or some other punishment) in that instance? In this "piledriver" move, it looks like the guy was just trying to flatten the guy out by picking him up and putting him back down, he just got the leverage wrong and the guy got too upside down. Honestly asking, as this obviously looks really bad, but I can imagine other instances where bad stuff happens and it's not necessarily illegal ...
The issue for me is Trumble leaving his feet and driving the guy into the mat head first under his weight and the opponent’s own weight. That just doesn’t sit well with me.
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