FC/OT: U.S. Soccer settles with Women’s National Team players…

[Midnighter]

Paywall, but settlement looks to include equal pay with the men’s team.



No paywall here…

US women's team players see settlement as turning point

U.S. women soccer players have reached a landmark agreement with the sport’s American governing body to end a six-year legal battle over equal pay.

www.clickondetroit.com

 

[BobPSU92]

So they’re going to lower the men’s pay to match the women’s?

 

[kgilbert78]

So they’re going to lower the men’s pay to match the women’s?

Possibly--or use the money the men make from FIFA to pay the women.

Part of all of this is the definition of "equal". Is it equal opportunity or equal outcome? There are challenges with both views--and they are not the same thing. The other issue with the union is that it's a bit of a closed shop. That gives older players in the union a longer career than they might otherwise have and makes it harder to bring younger players along. I thought it would catch up with us at the last Womens World Cup, but it didn't.

 

[Omar81]

Ridiculous in so many ways . . .

 

[retrospm]

How do they equalize the pay if it is, "subject to collective bargaining agreements with the unions that separately represent the women and men." The two things don't seem compatible and if I'm not mistaken were the source of the dispute in the first place.

 

[razpsu]

I think the nba should do the same thing and brings mens pay down to the women.

 

[91Joe95]

Pledge? What does that even mean? The men and women have separate unions. Pick better union leadership, because unless the men's union agrees to merge with the women that "pledge" means diddly squat. The primary purpose of any union is to advocate for its members, not others.

 

[NittPicker]

Video posted only a couple months ago. Not commenting one way or the other....

 

[PSUJam]

Remember when society used to applaud someone when they got a raise? Now it's frowned upon. It's effed up.

 

[Midnighter]

Video posted only a couple months ago. Not commenting one way or the other....

That’s the dumbest thing I’ve seen since the guy shooting his foot with an arrow. But indicative of how threatened men - especially white men - are by anything that challenges their status at the top of the food chain.

 

[NittPicker]

That’s the dumbest thing I’ve seen since the guy shooting his foot with an arrow. But indicative of how threatened men - especially white men - are by anything that challenges their status at the top of the food chain.

Maybe, but the video was made by a black man.

 

[Midnighter]

Maybe, but the video was made by a black man.

Roger Federer makes men look foolish on the tennis court too. Again - dumb video. This isn’t about whether men would beat women in a given sport. I actually agree with McEnroe about Williams. But, I’d rather watch a women’s pro tennis match over men’s because it’s far more entertaining IMO. For me - when it comes to pay/sponsorship of national teams, there should be parity. Professional sports is a different story and it should be whatever revenue can sustain.

 

[BobPSU92]

I’m all for equality, in moderation.

 

[Midnighter]

I’m all for equality, in moderation.

Do you prefer when a man makes your latte, or a woman?

 

[PSUJam]

Roger Federer makes men look foolish on the tennis court too. Again - dumb video. This isn’t about whether men would beat women in a given sport. I actually agree with McEnroe about Williams. But, I’d rather watch a women’s pro tennis match over men’s because it’s far more entertaining IMO. For me - when it comes to pay/sponsorship of national teams, there should be parity. Professional sports is a different story and it should be whatever revenue can sustain.

 

[91Joe95]

Remember when society used to applaud someone when they got a raise? Now it's frowned upon. It's effed up.

Does anybody really view that as the issue though? Is it even the issue? The women collectively bargained for their pay rates. They received every penny they were owed. If they don't like their contract they should consider better negotiators, going on strike, doing like women's tennis and forming their own league, etc. I'm surprised people think this settlement was a win for the women. Given how long this suit has been going on the attorney fees will consume a large portion of this, they still have their current contract, and they didn't receive any firm commitment on what the next contract will look like. Is anyone really surprised by this given the court was never really the avenue for this grievance.

 

[91Joe95]

Roger Federer makes men look foolish on the tennis court too. Again - dumb video. This isn’t about whether men would beat women in a given sport. I actually agree with McEnroe about Williams. But, I’d rather watch a women’s pro tennis match over men’s because it’s far more entertaining IMO. For me - when it comes to pay/sponsorship of national teams, there should be parity. Professional sports is a different story and it should be whatever revenue can sustain.

They call themselves a national team, but they're not actually affiliated with the government, so they are in effect a professional sports league.

 

[PSUJam]

Does anybody really view that as the issue though?

Judging by some posts in this thread, it seems to be.

 

[Midnighter]

They call themselves a national team, but they're not actually affiliated with the government, so they are in effect a professional sports

They’re the governing body in the US. For the National teams, take the sponsorship money and split it (or better yet, force the sponsors to ensure equal contributions). I do not think there is much you can do about prize money. That said, I also agree the women who feel strongly about this should simply not play. Don’t field a team and waste your time if it’s not worth it.

 

[BobPSU92]

Do you prefer when a man makes your latte, or a woman?

What do they look like?

 

[BobPSU92]

What does “China” pay women’s soccer players? Maybe the U.S. women can get a better deal there.

 

[91Joe95]

That’s the dumbest thing I’ve seen since the guy shooting his foot with an arrow. But indicative of how threatened men - especially white men - are by anything that challenges their status at the top of the food chain.

I find it amusing that anyone could be surprised that racial motivations in other threads are brought up given how casually race is often interjected where it clearly is completely irrelevant. This isn't a dig at you, I've seen plenty of other posters use the language you used. It's just an observation.

 

[Midnighter]

I find it amusing that anyone could be surprised that racial motivations in other threads are brought up given how casually race is often interjected where it clearly is completely irrelevant. This isn't a dig at you, I've seen plenty of other posters use the language you used. It's just an observation.

If you’re not aware of the conversation surrounding the victimization/demise of white men, especially at the hands of feminists, I’d suggest doing some research. But tread lightly…

 

[LaJollaCreek]

If you’re not aware of the conversation surrounding the victimization/demise of white men, especially at the hands of feminists, I’d suggest doing some research. But tread lightly…

It's funny and sad to watch.

 

[Quint526]

To keep this thread on point, can we all agree that misogyny has no race?

 

[Psu00]

If you’re not aware of the conversation surrounding the victimization/demise of white men, especially at the hands of feminists, I’d suggest doing some research. But tread lightly…

Respectfully, stop digging the hole. There was nothing in this to do with race until you tried to interject it. People can disagree on what the women's team compensation should be but let’s not go off the rails here.

 

[razpsu]

Maybe, but the video was made by a black man.

Damn!

 

[helixville]

Ya I’m tired of the everything is racist and if your white you are a racist narrative.

 

[manatree]

 

[Still in State Colllege]

It will be interesting to see if they get to retain the collectively bargained guaranteed benefit structure that the men do not get to go along with the extra pay.

 

[Erial_Lion]

They call themselves a national team, but they're not actually affiliated with the government, so they are in effect a professional sports league.

Governments are not allowed to have interference in National teams (at least in soccer, though I’m sure other sports are similar).

 

[Erial_Lion]

They’re the governing body in the US. For the National teams, take the sponsorship money and split it (or better yet, force the sponsors to ensure equal contributions).

There are areas where the free market needs to drive things…are you really going to force advertisers to put equal money into both teams if one could give you a bigger return on investment due to better ratings, etc? And what about paying for something like coaches? You could make our women’s coach the highest paid coach in the world, and you’d still need to pay several times that to get an applicable coach on the men’s side.

 

[BobPSU92]

“Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.”

 

[Midnighter]

There are areas where the free market needs to drive things…are you really going to force advertisers to put equal money into both teams if one could give you a bigger return on investment due to better ratings, etc? And what about paying for something like coaches? You could make our women’s coach the highest paid coach in the world, and you’d still need to pay several times that to get an applicable coach on the men’s side.

Shouldn't be a hard sell given the women win a lot more and have a lot of eyes on them (I think Nike said it's Women's National Team jersey was it's best seller amongst all US Soccer merchandise). The Women's World Cup final in 2019 (which featured the USWNT) had better ratings in the US than the 2018 World Cup Men's final which featured France and Croatia. And was the highest rated US soccer telecast since the 2015 Women's World Cup final (which also featured the USWNT). It's obvious the international pool of money for the men's game is higher than the women's, but good point about paying coaches. What does the US Men's National Team coach make? Is it worth it?

 

[Erial_Lion]

Shouldn't be a hard sell given the women win a lot more and have a lot of eyes on them (I think Nike said it's Women's National Team jersey was it's best seller amongst all US Soccer merchandise). The Women's World Cup final in 2019 (which featured the USWNT) had better ratings in the US than the 2018 World Cup Men's final which featured France and Croatia. And was the highest rated US soccer telecast since the 2015 Women's World Cup final (which also featured the USWNT). It's obvious the international pool of money for the men's game is higher than the women's, but good point about paying coaches. What does the US Men's National Team coach make? Is it worth it?

Last year, Andonovski (USWNT coach) made $357,597, while Berhalter made $1,291,539.

It's not surprising that the Women's world cup final, in which the US was playing, outdrew the final of a game featuring Croatia and France in a tournament that the US missed. But apples to apples, the US men blow away the women in ratings. If you look at the ratings for our men's qualifiers and compare them to the ratings for the women's qualifiers next year, they won't be close. If you look at a "normal" year, the $ both programs pull in isn't close. However, the US Women struck while the iron was hot and got many to buy into the narrative that they draw better than the men by looking at a period where they won the World Cup, and our men missed the World Cup.

I'm a huge fan of the US Women's team...but also don't like the spin they've put on all of this, and see a lot of the equal pay debate as potentially hurting our men's team down the line (it would be like PSU deciding that all of our sport's coaches need to make the same salary, or players need to have the same NIL opportunities...that would do a lot to hurt our most marketable sports while trying to raise up the smaller sports).

 

[LaJollaCreek]

Last year, Andonovski (USWNT coach) made $357.597, while Berhalter made $1,291,539.

It's not surprising that the Women's world cup final, in which the US was playing, outdrew the final of a game featuring Croatia and France in a tournament that the US missed. But apples to apples, the US men blow away the women in ratings. If you look at the ratings for our men's qualifiers and compare them to the ratings for the women's qualifiers next year, they won't be close. If you look at a "normal" year, the $ both programs pull in isn't close. However, the US Women struck while the iron was hot and got many to buy into the narrative that they draw better than the men by looking at a period where they won the World Cup, and our men missed the World Cup.

I'm a huge fan of the US Women's team...but also don't like the spin they've put on all of this, and see a lot of the equal pay debate as potentially hurting our men's team down the line (it would be like PSU deciding that all of our sport's coaches need to make the same salary, or players need to have the same NIL opportunities...that would do a lot to hurt our most marketable sports while trying to raise up the smaller sports).

Pretty much it...even when the US Men play at 10pm EST next month in the Azteca it will have more viewers for probably any women's qualifier ever. Mind you quite a of bit of that will be Mexican Americans, but advertisers see numbers. I have taken my nieces to USWNT games and I do want them to get more money, but the simple numbers are the Mens WC is 5-6 billion and the womens WC is about 150-200 million in revenue. It's hard to account for that big of difference of money and while in the US the market is a bit better for the women, it doesn't exist around the globe at that level. They can keep fighting for it as the biggest thing the women can do is keep winning and keep getting eyes on the TV or in the stands. That will drive up the revenue faster than anything else.

 

[kgilbert78]

Roger Federer makes men look foolish on the tennis court too. Again - dumb video. This isn’t about whether men would beat women in a given sport. I actually agree with McEnroe about Williams. But, I’d rather watch a women’s pro tennis match over men’s because it’s far more entertaining IMO. For me - when it comes to pay/sponsorship of national teams, there should be parity. Professional sports is a different story and it should be whatever revenue can sustain.

And the last point is part of the issue. There isn't parity in the revenue.

Let's look at it from a different point of view. I'd be willing to be that female models get paid more than male models. Where's the parity there?

 

[northwoods]

Last year, Andonovski (USWNT coach) made $357,597, while Berhalter made $1,291,539.

It's not surprising that the Women's world cup final, in which the US was playing, outdrew the final of a game featuring Croatia and France in a tournament that the US missed. But apples to apples, the US men blow away the women in ratings. If you look at the ratings for our men's qualifiers and compare them to the ratings for the women's qualifiers next year, they won't be close. If you look at a "normal" year, the $ both programs pull in isn't close. However, the US Women struck while the iron was hot and got many to buy into the narrative that they draw better than the men by looking at a period where they won the World Cup, and our men missed the World Cup.

I'm a huge fan of the US Women's team...but also don't like the spin they've put on all of this, and see a lot of the equal pay debate as potentially hurting our men's team down the line (it would be like PSU deciding that all of our sport's coaches need to make the same salary, or players need to have the same NIL opportunities...that would do a lot to hurt our most marketable sports while trying to raise up the smaller sports).

 

[northwoods]

To put "performance" in a more accurate light, the US Men have never reached a World Cup final since its inception in 1930, while the US Women have WON four of the past eight World Cup titles.

 

[Midnighter]

To put "performance" in a more accurate light, the US Men have not gotten to even a World Cup semi-final game since the 1930's, while the US Women have WON four World Cup titles in just the past 26 years.

Right. People get caught up in ‘equal pay’ and think that is the same as ‘equal pay rate’. The women argue that for them to earn as much or more than the men, they actually have to win (and they do, which is why their numbers can outperform men in certain circumstances). But if the men had the same success as the women, they would make a sh*t ton more. When the women asked for and received a guaranteed $100,000salary/year, they would get that win or lose. Under the men’s arrangement, they would get $10,000 per win, $5,000 per loss. So if both teams played and lost 20 matches they would make the same amount. If they both won all 20, the men double their salaries (plus have a lot more prize money to share).