Football Recruiting Question

[missouridawg]

So it looks like we're going to heavy on the D-Line with this coming year's class... Nelson, Bell, and Brown already committed...

Obviously, we're after Quay Evans and Channing Ward.... but it appears that the Cheeks kid from New Orleans (another DE) is more than likely going to commit to us next week (obivously this could change, but for argument's sake, let's assume).

Where does this leave us with Quay and Channing? Both of those guys are can't miss guys... do we have space for them after already getting 4 DL commits?

 

[missouridawg]

So it looks like we're going to heavy on the D-Line with this coming year's class... Nelson, Bell, and Brown already committed...

Obviously, we're after Quay Evans and Channing Ward.... but it appears that the Cheeks kid from New Orleans (another DE) is more than likely going to commit to us next week (obivously this could change, but for argument's sake, let's assume).

Where does this leave us with Quay and Channing? Both of those guys are can't miss guys... do we have space for them after already getting 4 DL commits?

 

[coach66]

Quay. Coaches are working with much more information than we have so who knows what might be going on. I really think they seem determined to change their approach from last year and get guys in the boat early who are going to stick. I think they were pissed about getting jerked around the last few weeks of recruiting by too many guys thatwere keeping their options open. I think it is a better approach but time will tell.

 

[chew1095]

From what I have read, we will sign betwen 6 and 8 DL in this class (which is a lot considering this projects to be a smaller class). A couple of these guys might be hybrid type DE/LBs, namely Bell and Ward. It appears as though our coaches' philosophy on the defensive side of the ball is to recruit guys that can potentially playmultiple positions, whether that be a DE/LB or a LB/S type. I think this is pretty smart because it will allow Wilson to give offenses some different looks. One other observation I have made about the current commitments, at least on the defensive side of the ball, is that these guys are big and fast, two things you cannot really coach. We arent really recruiting guys on the defensive side of the ball that you can say, "this guy is clearly a DT" or "this guy can only play S".
I do agree with coach66 though, I think our coaches are trying to target the best possible to fit specific needs, but at the same time, are trying to mitigate taking commitments from the kids who think they are bigger than a program, i.e. CJ and Beetlejuice Whitehead.

 

[Shmuley]

a ton of DL/DE out there. One conference foe has made 17 offers to strong side DEs. That's seventeen, as in the number 17.

 

[chew1095]

Is this a conference foe that generally offers 798 kids a year?

 

[jacksonreb1]

1. i'm not studying your (or our) recruiting that hard yet and 2. nobody really knows what these early committs bring to the table. but i know that ole miss has taken the kinds of kids you're describing as being able to play diff positions...ei, not "clearly" a DT. here's my problem (and it concerns be when we do it to)...you have to wonder if this is a real strategy or if we just can't get the true DT. i mean when you line up against bama, lsux, etc they don't have small quick dline...those mothers are 310 lbs and they are still quick as cats. i remember jackie's dlines....they were massive in the late 90"s.... they're also scarce as hen's teeth.

again guys i'm not dissing your committs. we've got NR guys committed too. i'm asking a philosophical question as it relates to both of us cause neither one of us recruit from a position of strength against our sec brethren.

 

[SyonaraStanz]

Nelson Adams is listed at 260. After Balis gets a hold of him, I'm guessing he'll be around 290 - 300 lbs. Fletcher Cox was around 250 in high school, and he's now listed at 300 lbs. These guys will grow into big lineman, and we hope they'll retain that speed, like Cox and many others have.

I know we have no "star power" guys so for, but I'm pleased with what the guys we have gotten because, like someone already said, they have good size and speed for high school, and our coaching staff will only improve it.

 

[chew1095]

And no, our S/C may not be the best in the country, but even Ray Charles can see the difference between our guys now and when the mistake lingered around Starkville for about 5 years.

 

[coach66]

look at a kid and project where he is going to be in size in a couple of years and whether that increase in size is going to be complimentary or detrimental to his ability to play at a high level. Bama and the other elite programs don't have to do this as much because they can get the guys that matured when they were 15 years old and who are already proven commodities at their position when they walk in the door. As JacksonReb pointed out there aren't that many guys out there like that (Quay) and the elite programs usually have the advantage when it comes to those guys.

 

[chew1095]

And the coaching staffs that can project like this are the ones that can be successful with recruiting classes that may not be top 25 every year. Does our coaching staff fit into this category? Dont know yet (only two year body of work), but I am encouraged and think they might.

 

[Hector.sixpack]

he plays DT I think most of the time, but last year in a playoff game he was moved to safety. He looked like a 250lbs missle onthe field. He's very fast, fast enough to play anywhere on the frontseven.

 

[AzzurriDawg4]

He is the most athletically and physically gifted defensive player I have seen from this state in a long time.

 

[aTotal360]

I agree that true DTs are hard to find. Physiologically speaking, they are a rare breed and a good one can take over a game. (see Fairly and Suh)<div>
</div><div>But I also have to agree with what the others are saying. Maybe our staff feels it can develop a better DT out of a large framed DE. I'm guessing our staff thinks the recent crop of DTs (Quay aside) have been lackluster and making a DT out of DE would result in a better player. </div>

 

[therightway]

Look at a player like Culberson. He came here as a corner and left as a linebacker. It seems like we are looking to do the same with some 200lb safetiesthat we have recently recruited.

 

[millsaps05]

This is exactly what they do at TCU. They have an amazing strength and conditioning program, and get undersized and undervalued guys and turn them into defensive monsters. And no matter how you feel about these non-BCS teams, TCU is no joke of a program.

 

[jacksonreb1]

if i see a guy like adams at 260 then i really view him as a true DT. you know he's going to grow and in an sec strength program get to 280 or so which frankly is big enough. 300 "may" be better but IMO 280-290 is plenty big if the kid is quick and has a mean streak.

it may be just semantics. i was taking the comments to be referring to more what i call tweeners...a 220 kid who is too big for corner, maybe not fast enough for safety and smallish for a linebacker......unfortunately both of us have had too many of those over the yrs.

 

[VirgilCain]

Very rarely has a kid that age had the time and strength conditioning to be over 300 pounds of "good football weight" (for lack of a better way to describe it). I would much rather bring in a kid around 250 and put 40-50 pounds of muscle on him over the course of a couple years than recruit a fatass that you constantly have to try to make lose weight while also trying to improve strength.

Not a good example at all, but I remember a football player buddy telling me about Monte Collins our freshman year. All the coaches made hime do in practice was run because he was too fat to have any chance to be good (turns out he sucked anyway). They ended up slimming him down a great bit, but over the Christmas break he regained about 40 pounds while at home! After he returned to school for the spring and weighed in, the S&C coach said something to the effect, "DAMN MONTE! What did you do??? Eat a 3rd grader???" I laughed pretty hard when my buddy told me this story. I realized Monte wouldn't amount to much when he would spend the majority of his day on the ******* playing old school nintendo gameboy.

To sum up what I'm getting at, It can be a beast to try and "contain" a fatass with massive, lifelong eating problem, rather than beefing up an already strong athletic kid over the course of a couple years.

 

[OMlawdog]

Were John Jerry, Michael Oher, and Derek Sherrod.

All three weighed over 300 when they were signed. Having someone gain 40-50 lbs of good weight is just not that easy.

</p>

 

[JackBauer.sixpack]

is that all of these kids haven't started their senior years yet. I can't speak for UM, but with Mullen preaching development and redshirting (especially lineman), these kids probably wont be on an SEC field for two more years.

Prime example- Daniel Knox, while being recruited, was around 250 but with the frame for more. He reported to MSU at 270 this summer; between now and next September I could see Daniel being at 290 and being right where he needs to be.

Same thing for Archie Muniz; he was actually very close to Knox's size in high school, and now as a RS FR. he's in that 285-290 range

 

[VirgilCain]

I don't know **** about Jerry so he could be in a different category. I was also speaking in generalities, except for the anecdote about Monte because I thought it was funny. All 3 of those were elite prospects coming out of HS also, I thought we were talking about the average DL signee like the guy who this thread is about(sadly neither OM nor MSU are filling their signing classes with the elite DL)

NFL first rounder talent & size is at one extreme of the spectrum. Maybe we prefer different recruiting and developing stratagies. But in general (not elite prospects), I'd rather the underweight kid who has the possibility to develope into any DL position, than a fatass that is automatically going to ONLY play bullplug NG and maybe possibly a heavy DT.

While were at it, I also like the idea of recruiting a TE-like prospect with the possibility of him growing into LT. Still speaking in generalities of non-elite prospects.

I am probably in the complete minority on this idea, so you are probably not the only one that disagrees with me, OMlawdog

 

[trumaroon]

<blockquote style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir="ltr">Fletcher was 220 his senior year of high school.

</p>[/quote]

 

[KurtRambis4]

It isn't hard for these kids to put on 30-40 lbs of good weight under Dan's plan. Like you say, these kids haven't even begun their senior year. Combine that with the fact that they are more than likely redshirt, you're looking at about 2 years before they are playing. Under Balis, them gaining that much weight and getting to peak physical conditioning isn't that hard to expect.</p>

 

[FreeDawg]

has way more to do with nutrition than the workout itself. Before everyone piles on about how stupid that sounds think about it. Most highschool kids eat ******** for three meals a day. Cereal followed by school lunch (pizza and burgers/fries) followed by whatever they get at home. Most highschool kids dont have enough money too properly buy supplements (whey protein). Then they eat chips and little debbies for snacks. When you hear about guys gaining 20-30 lbs during there rs year it is more a product of getting an abundance of quality calories and protein intake for the first time in there life. Add Balis to this equation and there you go.