Golf: Mississippi copies Bama but...

[Maroon Eagle]

Legislature spending money on a Robert Trent Jones golf course at Lefleur's Bluff. But problem is that Robert Trent Jones died 20+ years ago...

#badlywordedtweet

Master plan for LeFleur’s Bluff announced today to include the first Robert Trent Jones golf course in Mississippi — built in Jackson — dubbed the Otter Creek Golf Park.Legislators appropriated $13.2 million from ARPA funds to make it possible.#wlbt pic.twitter.com/9HjK58JcfS— C.J. LeMaster (@CJLeMaster) April 12, 2022

 

[eckie1]

I’ve got very fond memories of LeFleur’s Bluff…

Legislature spending money on a Robert Trent Jones golf course at Lefleur's Bluff. But problem is that Robert Trent Jones died 20+ years ago...

#badlywordedtweet

From sometimes being able to drive the green on the 8th to holding onto your butts on the 9th with that massive drop, it’s a really fun course! Hope they enhance it and don’t 17 it up…

 

[Smoked Toag]

Nothing wrong with copying if it's a good idea. Look at the Junction and the Grove.

Of course, a nice/affordable golf course is just that. What Alabama did was invest teachers' retirement in nice/affordable golf courses, and not only that, they branded them very well as the Trail, which set a standard. A trail card gets you discounts, etc.

Who's going to own this golf course? Is it still under the state park system? Wildlife and Fisheries?

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Lefleur's Bluff is a state park. It's under the state department of wildlife, fisheries, and parks... so same difference?

 

[FISHDAWG]

Lefleur's Bluff is a state park. It's under the state department of wildlife, fisheries, and parks... so same difference?

I was told that the RTJ's clubs in Alabama are owned by their teacher retirement system as an investment for their teachers pension system .... not sure that's true but it's what I have heard from several sources

 

[dorndawg]

13 million for a 9 hole course?!? Which legislator's brother-in-law is getting the contract?

Coulda split that $13M between LeFleur's in Jackson, Dogwoods in Grenada, Mallard Pointe in Sardis, and Quail Hollow in McComb. We'd have four amazing state park courses. https://twitter.com/GanucheauAdam/status/1513930022502993925

 

[johnson86-1]

I was told that the RTJ's clubs in Alabama are owned by their teacher retirement system as an investment for their teachers pension system .... not sure that's true but it's what I have heard from several sources

I think they put teacher pension money into it. The rational (which the teachers should have gone absolutely nuclear over, although it has I think worked out) was that why invest Alabama pension money out of state when you could use it to give a return to the teachers and drive economic development. I would say that rational would have led to a 17ed up boon doggle 99.99999999999999999999999999999999% of the time, but it has shockingly not resulted in a lot of rich golf course "consultants" related to public officials while leaving the state on the hook for guaranteeing the underfunded pension fund.

 

[Shmuley]

It is not clear from easily available source material exactly what is the structure of the Alabama Golf Trail set-up. It appears that the retirement system owns the real property and has a contract with Sunbelt Golf Corporation, a private entity, to organize, oversee, operate and maintain all aspects of the golf experience along the RTJ Trail. Aspects of the operation that deal with real property considerations (such as leases or sub-leases related to amenities like hotels/restaurants/etc) probably require actions and authorizations on behalf of the retirement system, but outside of real property considerations Sunbelt would be the decision-maker subject to the master operations agreement. The same format could be used in Mississippi with MDWFP assuming the retirement system role and contracting with an entity like Sunbelt to run the courses.

 

[Smoked Toag]

13 million for a 9 hole course?!? Which legislator's brother-in-law is getting the contract?

Coulda split that $13M between LeFleur's in Jackson, Dogwoods in Grenada, Mallard Pointe in Sardis, and Quail Hollow in McComb. We'd have four amazing state park courses. https://twitter.com/GanucheauAdam/status/1513930022502993925

You ain't wrong. I missed the 9 hole part.

Not to mention the only thing that mirrors what Alabama did is the RTJ name.

Then you have the Refuge right down the road. Not to mention that this thing is going to be on land that could be used for other things, like a zoo.

So yeah, what initially sounded like a good idea has become Mississippi'ed real quick.

ETA: After some quick Twittering, looks like this is a piece of ARPA money that was appropriated for Jackson. So may not be so bad after all.

 

[johnson86-1]

13 million for a 9 hole course?!? Which legislator's brother-in-law is getting the contract?

Coulda split that $13M between LeFleur's in Jackson, Dogwoods in Grenada, Mallard Pointe in Sardis, and Quail Hollow in McComb. We'd have four amazing state park courses. https://twitter.com/GanucheauAdam/status/1513930022502993925

You aren't making Lefleur's amazing with a couple of million dollars. I've played Mallard Point and Dogwoods and both are set up to be really good courses. Not sure there is enough affluent population near either of them to charge enough to keep them nice, and I'm not sure they will realistically be nice enough to get people to make them destinations. Mallard Point probaby could by pairing it as a destination to go with Oxford.

There's really no reason for Lefleur's bluff to be a golf course. It'd be nice for people that work in downtown jackson to maybe be able to get in nine holes after work, but realistcally, most of those people are driving out 25 or 55 and other golf courses to choose from that they will pass before getting home (and even if they're downtown, the Refuge is 6 miles away). A zoo would maybe be a good idea since they've already got the children's museum right there.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

Rationale

 

[Junction John]

Pretty sure the $13M is for a larger project that simply includes the golf course. The way they worded the article, it does sound like that's the whole project. It's not.

And the zoo is not moving as long as Lumumba or any of his type (meaning politicians who care more about votes than what's best for the city) have any sayso in it. He has come out in support of the golf project at least in part so that all the northeast jackson people who wanted to move the zoo to the LeFleurs area will finally have to shut up about it. At the same time, he's maintained hero status to all the voters on the west side.

 

[Smoked Toag]

Pretty sure the $13M is for a larger project that simply includes the golf course. The way they worded the article, it does sound like that's the whole project. It's not.

And the zoo is not moving as long as Lumumba or any of his type (meaning politicians who care more about votes than what's best for the city) have any sayso in it. He has come out in support of the golf project at least in part so that all the northeast jackson people who wanted to move the zoo to the LeFleurs area will finally have to shut up about it. At the same time, he's maintained hero status to all the voters on the west side.

At this point the zoo (or any zoo) just needs to go to Madison or Rankin County.

 

[Smoked Toag]

Here's the full plan:

https://www.visitjackson.com/blog/l...KEsdcCSbCEOE5CuFtTkbcq1ocdCm7Cuj7m3IWMWuu8wuA

 

[johnson86-1]

At this point the zoo (or any zoo) just needs to go to Madison or Rankin County.

Or alternatively start carving up special districts in Hinds. Basically no state money should go to Hinds unless it is tied to protecting functional areas (or carving out functional areas) that can operate without being screwed up by Jackson or Hinds County politicians.

Maybe one idea would be to make a "capital" judicial circuit that can have it's own appointed circuit judge that handles lawsuits against the state and its agencies and also criminal matters that occur in certain areas designated as part of the capital (so say the capital and downtown and the area between 51 and I-55 on the justification that it's a corridor to the capital. OR if you really wanted to get aggressive, between West Street and Ridge Road also. That wouldn't eliminate the crime, but at least it would stop the repeat offenders in those areas.

 

[Monmorning QB]

The City of Jackson will let the Jackson Zoo suffer a slow death before allowing it to be moved to by far the most logical place in the city.

 

[Junction John]

Good idea. Hell you've got a guy right here in town who already manages courses in the suburbs, and he does a pretty good job. Let Randy Watkins have a shot at the contract, if you want to keep money from going out of state.

 

[Junction John]

Just add it to a long (long) list of projects which multiple mayors of this city would rather see die than personally risk losing votes over a tough political decision.

 

[Dawgfan61]

I like this part:

The course will feature a 10-hole, par-3, walkable course with holes ranging from 70-150 yards, a state-of-the-art driving range, 18-hole putting course, separate putting green, a new clubhouse, and will be accessible for NIGHTTIME play.

 

[archdog]

Look guys, you cannot do anything in this bidding climate that isn't that amount.

 

[Smoked Toag]

I like this part:

The course will feature a 10-hole, par-3, walkable course with holes ranging from 70-150 yards, a state-of-the-art driving range, 18-hole putting course, separate putting green, a new clubhouse, and will be accessible for NIGHTTIME play.

Target practice for Jackson's finest!

 

[horshack.sixpack]

At least there will be a bridge across Lakeland to allow an additional egress option upon hearing shots fired. Run over and grab some mudbugs and beer until shots dissipate.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

At this point the zoo (or any zoo) just needs to go to Madison or Rankin County.

The zoo is owned by the City of Jxn. it would make a ton of sense to move it to where the golf course is now. The area could really be developed into an area that produces a lot of tax revenue for the city. Relocate those little league fields, that are rarely used, to over near the soccer complex and free up more prime real estate for development. For all that to happen the City would have to work with the State and several other entities and that will not happen any time soon. Additionally the richest/most influential folks in the 'Sip live a few miles away in Eastover, if I'm a city leader, I'm working with those families to make all this happen. Barksdale/Creekmore/Holman/Maloney Zoo anyone?

 

[RocketDawg]

It's true. The Alabama TRS also owns a skyscraper in Manhattan. And they built the largest building in Mobile.

 

[Col. Forbin]

He did manage it for a little while several years ago. It improved some but not much at all.

 

[Smoked Toag]

The zoo is owned by the City of Jxn. it would make a ton of sense to move it to where the golf course is now. The area could really be developed into an area that produces a lot of tax revenue for the city. Relocate those little league fields, that are rarely used, to over near the soccer complex and free up more prime real estate for development. For all that to happen the City would have to work with the State and several other entities and that will not happen any time soon. Additionally the richest/most influential folks in the 'Sip live a few miles away in Eastover, if I'm a city leader, I'm working with those families to make all this happen. Barksdale/Creekmore/Holman/Maloney Zoo anyone?

I think this announcement confirms that the zoo is never moving to LeFleurs Bluff. That’s a done deal.

As far as zoo ownership, a private zoo management entity could buy those animals and buy 150 acres in a heartbeat, if they wanted. Similar deal to the airport (except it’s the State, not a private entity). The problem in both situations is that the general public expects the City to turn loose of both for free.

One other note, the terrain of LB isn’t the best for a zoo. Great for a golf course/recreation area.

 

[johnson86-1]

I think this announcement confirms that the zoo is never moving to LeFleurs Bluff. That’s a done deal.

As far as zoo ownership, a private zoo management entity could buy those animals and buy 150 acres in a heartbeat, if they wanted. Similar deal to the airport (except it’s the State, not a private entity). The problem in both situations is that the general public expects the City to turn loose of both for free.

One other note, the terrain of LB isn’t the best for a zoo. Great for a golf course/recreation area.

I think the general public would just like a self sustaining zoo. I'm not sure a zoo in Jackson is going to be a big money maker, but I really doubt one can be a money maker while paying the Jackson zoo to shut down. Maybe there is some value in the animals and some of the equipment, but the land I would think is basically just a liability. No private money is going over there. If the city of Jackson wants a zoo in the city limits, it seems like it'd be in their best interests to try and facilitate having a zoo somewhere that it might could be viable on its own.

 

[johnson86-1]

Semi-OT - Maybe there is a market for doing an "off road" riding park in down town jackson.

http://kingfish1935.blogspot.com/2022/04/giving-up-streets.html