I loved Joe and have great respect for Bear Bryant, but I think Saban is now the clear choice for GOAT
greatest college coach of all time?
- Thread starter Nitt1300
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It all depends on how you measure great. If it's by winning percentage it's difficult to argue against Saban. But remember, he inherited a legendary program. I doubt he would have won so many games if he started out with a team that had yet to make it's mark on the national landscape.
JoePa brought a much lesser known team to national prominence. And he did it while focusing on "STUDENT" athletes. You don't see much of that these days.
JoePa brought a much lesser known team to national prominence. And he did it while focusing on "STUDENT" athletes. You don't see much of that these days.
You have now gone where no sane person should on this site. The dwindling JoeBots still alive will crucify you. Joe was the greatest man who ever coached college football, but not the greatest coach.
There was no playoff system when Joe coached. He also did not run players off to bring in bigger classes. Give Joe 20+ players per class, let alone 30+ that Saban has done, and I'll take my chances with Joe. Scheme wise, attention to detail, snalyzing other teams strengths/weaknesses, etc. they were very similar.
Saban has no equal. I would put Joe second and then Bear.
Joe is the best ever. 409, Success With Honor, The Grand Experiment. He won plenty. He just wasn’t recognized for it for many years, hence the shafting by the voters many times. He was more than just wins. No coach has ever meant more to their school or has done more for their school than Joe.
I hate us.
I hate us.
I love me some Joe Paterno, but I'd have to put 1. Saben, 2. Bear,3. JoePa
Saban is the greatest CF coach ever but JVP was much more than just a coach
Is Saban funding a library? Is his wife tutoring players? Life is more than wins and losses
Is Saban funding a library? Is his wife tutoring players? Life is more than wins and losses
Thank you for the topic. I had actually been thinking of this topic for the past few weeks.
I'll say it. Saban might be over-rated. Yes, I said it. Let me explain. Saban to his credit has been able to assemble by a nice margin the best collection of college football talent for the past 10-15 years. Going in to every single game, he has more talent than any other team, without question.
Does that make him an awesome recruiter or an awesome coach? I don't know. What I think I know is that his likelihood of winning any game is 80+% or more strictly on the talent he has assembled. And yes, he has generally only lost one game per year for the past 10-15 years. Impressive indeed.
Having talent is one thing. Being able to motivate and have them perform to the tune of one loss per year over such a long period does indicate he probably knows how to coach very well. Saban has a head start at the beginning of every season because he has the best talent (money can buy hahaha; just kidding)
How did he do at MSU? Hmmm. The greatest coach or the greatest recruiter?
I think Saban does deserve to be "up there". The top 5, whomever you think they are, are probably all the same level of coach.
Like other sports-NBA, NFL, MLB, things are different now. Same type of arguments--Lebron better than Michael, Tom brady best ever--well yeah he may be--would he have been in the 80-90's with more of a Run game and more Protection for the QB etc....things change. We dont know.
In terms of coaching, Saban is the best coach today and for the last 20yrs. He is a Coach first, and is very tactical in his disciplines. He may be the best DB coach in the country Pros included. Bellichek is the best Defense coach in the Country bar none--then Saban IMHO.
For the record I dont like Saban--love and respect him as coach not as a person. Plenty of stories from Ex-Dolphins (guys u know of including Ex PSU's players
Michigan State a stepping stone (how many kids want to go there no matter the coach?)- then climbs the ladder to LSU wins a Natty then goes to Alabama-Football school first--Warm weather in the SEC. He put together a pretty good coaching staff immediately. Starts to WIN in Year 2-combine that with Today's Kids who are mostly Front Runners (have a 33' coming in April cant wait) and are impatient. He has the best collection of talent with depth bar none---best defensive coach in the country and has the luxury of inheriting pretty good Offensive coaches that are waiting for the next gig and are motivated to win so they can get a pay day and on it goes now.
Saban being a great football coach--combined with 4.5*+ Talent 2 -deep at every spot has made him one of he greatest coaches all time. He built that and has capitalized on Todays College Football mentality and culture.
Here is my Mount Rushmore of Coaches; Rockne-Bryant-Paterno-Saban
Honorable mention; Bowden-Robinson
In terms of coaching, Saban is the best coach today and for the last 20yrs. He is a Coach first, and is very tactical in his disciplines. He may be the best DB coach in the country Pros included. Bellichek is the best Defense coach in the Country bar none--then Saban IMHO.
For the record I dont like Saban--love and respect him as coach not as a person. Plenty of stories from Ex-Dolphins (guys u know of including Ex PSU's players
Michigan State a stepping stone (how many kids want to go there no matter the coach?)- then climbs the ladder to LSU wins a Natty then goes to Alabama-Football school first--Warm weather in the SEC. He put together a pretty good coaching staff immediately. Starts to WIN in Year 2-combine that with Today's Kids who are mostly Front Runners (have a 33' coming in April cant wait) and are impatient. He has the best collection of talent with depth bar none---best defensive coach in the country and has the luxury of inheriting pretty good Offensive coaches that are waiting for the next gig and are motivated to win so they can get a pay day and on it goes now.
Saban being a great football coach--combined with 4.5*+ Talent 2 -deep at every spot has made him one of he greatest coaches all time. He built that and has capitalized on Todays College Football mentality and culture.
Here is my Mount Rushmore of Coaches; Rockne-Bryant-Paterno-Saban
Honorable mention; Bowden-Robinson
It's not even in question Saban without a doubt is the best ever Any one who questions or doubts that has no idea what they are talking about
Transitory decline. Alabama was one of the all time great programs, great facilities, lots of NFL players, top fan base, etc. Saban helped bring it back but he sure didn't build it from nothing.
Joe because he never once cut corners. Who knows what Saban is up to down there in Alabama? Do you think we'll ever find out all the shenanigans? That has to take away from his "greatness" factor
John Gagliardi has to be in the conversation also if we're straying from FBS, but for me it's JVP. Slighted 68, 69, 73, 94. would have never happened to the Bear or Nick.
Nick has the benefit of people looking the other way, processing a roster, NIL, and football support and coaches.
Nick has the benefit of people looking the other way, processing a roster, NIL, and football support and coaches.
KNUTE ROCKNE. End of discussion, IMO. Look at his winning % and the fact that his ND teams played most of the games on the road.
As an old timer, I’m going to throw this name in the hat as a long shot for greatest coach.
Bud Wilkinson coached Oklahoma from 1947-1964. Record 145-27. Had a streak of 47 straight wins between 1953 and 1957. 3 Nattys, 14 Big 7 conference (included playing Texas and Nebraska every year (Texas was in the SW Conference back then)). He also had a streak of 31 Straight. They also played pretty tough national schedule back then, NotreDame (who finally broke the streak), Pitt (#5 one year they played), no “next level down Cupcakes”. He was 6-2 in bowl games. He retired from coaching at the age of 48 to run for US Senate. He lost and got into broadcasting. He did have an unsuccessful run as coach of the St. Louis Cardinals in 78-79.
Since he only coached 17 years, he doesn’t match the Saban, Bear or JoePa well. He was 0-2 versus the Bear (supposedly a good friend) and the Big 7 conference was considered weaker than the SEC or Big 10. However, he shouldn’t be forgotten as one of the greatest coaches.
Bud Wilkinson coached Oklahoma from 1947-1964. Record 145-27. Had a streak of 47 straight wins between 1953 and 1957. 3 Nattys, 14 Big 7 conference (included playing Texas and Nebraska every year (Texas was in the SW Conference back then)). He also had a streak of 31 Straight. They also played pretty tough national schedule back then, NotreDame (who finally broke the streak), Pitt (#5 one year they played), no “next level down Cupcakes”. He was 6-2 in bowl games. He retired from coaching at the age of 48 to run for US Senate. He lost and got into broadcasting. He did have an unsuccessful run as coach of the St. Louis Cardinals in 78-79.
Since he only coached 17 years, he doesn’t match the Saban, Bear or JoePa well. He was 0-2 versus the Bear (supposedly a good friend) and the Big 7 conference was considered weaker than the SEC or Big 10. However, he shouldn’t be forgotten as one of the greatest coaches.
Liked him on TV as a commentator, dry even for seventies TV, but knew how to explain the game.
He built it from scratch. Bama had been bad for years. Remember he also won a champ at lsu. He is clearly the best of all time.
Recency bias inevitably dominates the replies. It's not necessarily bad, just human nature.
Why don't you do some investigating what Saban & wife are doing for the community and get back to us on the details. I'd be willing to bet they are very involved in giving their time and money to admirable efforts.
They've got to be cheating. Every successful program cheats except Penn State.
My father used to say that Joe Paterno would have been the best coach Harvard ever had. He might have been onto something there....from the time he took over from Rip in the mid-1960s until the mid-1990s, he was an incredible coach at Penn State, but it was mostly downhill for the final 15 years.
What are the criteria? How do you adjust for team talent and sheer luck? What era, as the required skills have changed over time?
These kind of questions, eg, greatest general, athlete, ceo, football player, artist, are always silly and unanswerable.
Seriously what the hell is a JoeBot? Just another derogatory comment about those who disagree with a certain point of view. I happen to think that Paterno should have retired 10 to 15 years before the unfortunate end and said that frequently. On the other hand, I will vigorously defend him with respect to the manner in which he was crucified by an agenda driven media and scapegoated by a spineless BOT more concerned about covering their you know whats than fulfilling their fiduciary duties to the university. If that makes me a JoeBot, I am fine with being called the same.
I can't agree with "every" but certainly a lot do cheat the rules and Joe was above and beyond adherent to rules
"greatest" is really broad and relative. DI? DII? DIII? Let's assume DI.
Greatest in terms of wins? JVP clearly. it's quantitative
Greatest in terms of putting players into the NFL? Strictly by the numbers, it's JVP as well. But that's not really all there is to it right? Who has had more highly rated recruits thus making it easier to put more kids into the NFL? Who has more kids in the NFL strictly because they coached longer? Lots of metrics to this one. Bowden? JVP? Saban? Spurrier?
Greatest in terms of player dev? Doing more with less?
Greatest in terms of what they've done for their school? For the community?
Greatest in-game coach?
I'm not poopooing your question. great question. but it needs more qualifiers I think. I'd say greatest all-around? Has to be JVP. tons of NFL players, best bowl record, clearly top of the pile when it comes to doing things for their school and community. Purely a game day coach though? I'm going with Saban here. the SECCG showed this one. If Saban gets a second chance, it's game over. That Georgia D was historicaly good and Saban hung 41 on them. 41.....
Greatest in terms of wins? JVP clearly. it's quantitative
Greatest in terms of putting players into the NFL? Strictly by the numbers, it's JVP as well. But that's not really all there is to it right? Who has had more highly rated recruits thus making it easier to put more kids into the NFL? Who has more kids in the NFL strictly because they coached longer? Lots of metrics to this one. Bowden? JVP? Saban? Spurrier?
Greatest in terms of player dev? Doing more with less?
Greatest in terms of what they've done for their school? For the community?
Greatest in-game coach?
I'm not poopooing your question. great question. but it needs more qualifiers I think. I'd say greatest all-around? Has to be JVP. tons of NFL players, best bowl record, clearly top of the pile when it comes to doing things for their school and community. Purely a game day coach though? I'm going with Saban here. the SECCG showed this one. If Saban gets a second chance, it's game over. That Georgia D was historicaly good and Saban hung 41 on them. 41.....
Do everyone a favor and think before you pontificate. You should have just added one sentence to the above. That being, perhaps having the curtesy of asking me what I actually considered a Joebot, before launching into your self laudatory proclamation.
To me a Joebot is an individual who fervently believes that Joe was infallible in both his personal and coaching career decisions. I merely, not as humorously as I intended obviously, wanted to prepare the OP for an attack by the above described JoeBots. By your own words you questioned his judgment in continuing to coach at his advanced age. Therefore in my definition you can’t be a Joebot. But if you would like to join that group (the type of organization that Joe himself would ridicule) be my guest.
What does the unfair travesty that Joe and his legacy had to endure have to do with the threads initial question? Only an idiot would believe all the venom spewed at him. It simply asked readers to comment on whom they thought was the greatest college coach of all time. And I stand by my comment that Joe was the greatest person ever to coach college football, but he wasn’t the greatest college coach of all time. However everyone should be willing to accept the opinions and views of others, provided they remain on point.
Larry Kehres. Just kidding. Kind of but not really.
| Head coaching record | |
|---|---|
| Overall | 332–24–3 |
| Tournaments | 77–12 (NCAA D-III playoffs) |
Rockne’s coaching tree is impressive also. Rockne coached Frank Leahy, who was the Nick Saban of the 1940s, and Leahy coached Vince Lombardi.
Enough of the history, there are too many great ones. I’m an unrepentant JoeBot. Did he stay too long? Yes, but ‘66 to ‘99 was a great run. It would have been interesting to see Joe in his prime going into the B10.
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