This is like picking the four best CFB coaches, or anything else....the players come from different eras and it's difficult to just select four from a sport that has been played professionally for....80 years?
Happy 74th birthday to the greatest to ever lace up the skates...
- Thread starter EricStratton-RushChairman
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Not so much in hockey. I think it would be widely agreed that those 4 would be the 4.
The top 3 was always Howe, Orr and the Great one, I'd add Mario now to make it top 4. I feel passionately about Orr because I was 6 years old in 1970. I get that 99 will probably always be the gold standard for offensive hockey player (although Ovechkin might get close). In fact, his career points total may never be broken. To show how insane his number is, a few years ago I did a distribution model on career point finishes among top 500 point totals (BTW Ovechkin would fall 250 points behind Bourque and Espo).
Pens fans support this.
Actually I'm perfectly happy to give Ovetchkin his due. He's an absolute beast out on the ice. I didn't mention him because I don't think he's quite the playmaker Jagr was, or could carry the puck nearly as well. He's one hell of a finisher though.
And I don’t see Gordie Howe anywhere on the chart. How do you factor in non offensive greatness?
It is always difficult to compare players from different eras .....equipment technology, physical fitness and training ( my freshman year at UMass we had ash trays in the lockeroom ), rules enforcement ( the 1950's-1980's fighting and intimidation era ended right about when Gretzky & Mario rose to the top)
it's all subjective, but here goes my top 5
Howe
Orr
Gretzky
Lemeuix
Patrick Roy
Howe scared the living sh*t out of opponents - he could truly end your career in a fight - and was phenomenally skilled for his era of the straight blade stick - he was a top 10 point scorer for 21 consecutive years !!!!! Many of those were in the top 3 and he led the league in scoring with 95 points in 1953 which was unheard of at that time.
Orr was the complete player - instant acceleration - from 1966-1970 - he had 3 knee surgeries during that period - and a knee surgery back then was a MAJOR ordeal - 8 more during his remaining playing career - Orr was a complete offensive, defensive and a really good fighter and never dialed in a game
Gretzky - played the game with his head not his body - scary - greatest offensive NHL player ever - played hard every shift
Lemeuix - the most physically gifted beside Orr, and probably a smidgen more gifted than Orr, but he took nights off - not just shifts off - but when he really wanted it he was the best player on the planet - period
Patrick Roy - greatest goalie ever - the good NHL goalies make all the saves that should be saved, the great goalies make the saves they should not be able to make, again and again - they get in the heads of the great offensive players - none more than Roy
it's all subjective, but here goes my top 5
Howe
Orr
Gretzky
Lemeuix
Patrick Roy
Howe scared the living sh*t out of opponents - he could truly end your career in a fight - and was phenomenally skilled for his era of the straight blade stick - he was a top 10 point scorer for 21 consecutive years !!!!! Many of those were in the top 3 and he led the league in scoring with 95 points in 1953 which was unheard of at that time.
Orr was the complete player - instant acceleration - from 1966-1970 - he had 3 knee surgeries during that period - and a knee surgery back then was a MAJOR ordeal - 8 more during his remaining playing career - Orr was a complete offensive, defensive and a really good fighter and never dialed in a game
Gretzky - played the game with his head not his body - scary - greatest offensive NHL player ever - played hard every shift
Lemeuix - the most physically gifted beside Orr, and probably a smidgen more gifted than Orr, but he took nights off - not just shifts off - but when he really wanted it he was the best player on the planet - period
Patrick Roy - greatest goalie ever - the good NHL goalies make all the saves that should be saved, the great goalies make the saves they should not be able to make, again and again - they get in the heads of the great offensive players - none more than Roy
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Roy was phenomenal, but possibly not even the best of his era. Hasek was ridiculous.
Hasek, Thomas and a few others had great streaks - a couple or even a few seasons where they were silly good, but none put together the body of elite goaltending of Roy
Surprisingly, Roy only won 2 Vezinas. Hasek won 5. I think at his best, Hasek was better than Roy, which should not diminish Roy at all. He was phenomenal.
I just chose not to put him on there, i just picked a few super super stars for comparison. The fact that 99 is so far beyond the distribution of the other 500 is really amazing.
But Roy won 3 Conn Smythe Trophies ( and 4 Stanley Cups, 2 while at Montreal were on teams that were far from outstanding, the Colorado teams were pretty darn good however - but no goalie has ever consistently played and carried his teams to playoff victories like he did ) no other goalie has EVER won a single Conn Smythe trophy forget 3, and won 10 straight playoff overtime games ! He literally won those Cups in Montreal.
Hasek was bizarrely good and we are arguing Lamborghini vs Ferrari here, but for my money, Roy was the best.
Orr played in 657 games
Gretzky played in 1,487 games
Howe had 1,850 points in 1,766 games
Orr played defense and was a bizarrely good penalty killer
Howe was the most mean and feared, fighting skill player ever.
Gretzky was the better offensive player, and by a lot, but was one dimensional.
Right, and in the name of full disclosure, I don’t put much stock in Vezinas. Or any other award based on opinions. You’re certainly not wrong to say Roy was better.
RIP Mike Bossy.
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Islanders legend Mike Bossy dead at 65
Islanders legend Mike Bossy, whose scoring touch helped drive the franchise to four straight championships, died late Thursday after a battle with terminal lung cancer. He was 65. Bossy’s diagnosis…
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Needs its own thread.RIP Mike Bossy.
Islanders legend Mike Bossy dead at 65
Islanders legend Mike Bossy, whose scoring touch helped drive the franchise to four straight championships, died late Thursday after a battle with terminal lung cancer. He was 65. Bossy’s diagnosis…
Thst was a fun movie. Very few films pushed the envelope the way Slap Shot did.
That was a darn good depiction of minor league hockey in the 1970’s
Bossy was a true freak when it came to shooting the snap-shot & wrist shot. He played when the stick technology was so primitive compared to today’s, but he could really whistle it.
He used a Titan Turbo stick, which I never had the nerve to ask for growing up. Instead, I used the Titan 2020 which was good enough for my street hockey exploits.
There’s a lot to wade through here. Orr played unlike any Defenseman before him (or after besides Coffey). Wonder what numbers he would have finished with without injuries. I wouldn’t have him #1 though.
A couple points I’ll add that ro touched on about eras, the majority of Howe’s career was when a 100 point season was literally unseen. Have to look at his numbers like Honus Wagner in baseball.
Shortly after the first expansion in the late 60s and the teaming of Esposito with Orr, scoring increased significantly (along with games), and the leader’s point total increased 30-40%.
With the WHA assimilation (‘80?), scoring exploded to its highest rates ever, led by Gretzky’s ridiculous numbers. Seemed like the bad teams didn’t care about losing as long as there were goals.
The success of the Devils and their style brought a lot of imitation and curtailed scoring significantly in the 2nd half of the ‘00s. Seemed like teams were content to try and steal a point in a game.
As for goalies, I’d go with Dryden. Could be the little kid age factor and larger than life ideals, but nobody tops his 6 cups in 8 years. Can’t really say much about the maskless years other than looking at record books.
A couple points I’ll add that ro touched on about eras, the majority of Howe’s career was when a 100 point season was literally unseen. Have to look at his numbers like Honus Wagner in baseball.
Shortly after the first expansion in the late 60s and the teaming of Esposito with Orr, scoring increased significantly (along with games), and the leader’s point total increased 30-40%.
With the WHA assimilation (‘80?), scoring exploded to its highest rates ever, led by Gretzky’s ridiculous numbers. Seemed like the bad teams didn’t care about losing as long as there were goals.
The success of the Devils and their style brought a lot of imitation and curtailed scoring significantly in the 2nd half of the ‘00s. Seemed like teams were content to try and steal a point in a game.
As for goalies, I’d go with Dryden. Could be the little kid age factor and larger than life ideals, but nobody tops his 6 cups in 8 years. Can’t really say much about the maskless years other than looking at record books.
Question for the hockey gurus on the board - How do you think the great Soviet players such as Tretiak, Mikhailov, Kharlamov, etc., would stack up against the great NHL players of the 70s and 80s?
Tretiak a candidate for that 4th place on Rushmore. Mario, Orr, Needle-nose, and him.
They’re right there with them from what everybody says.
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