Harbor

[18IsTheMan]

A&M is not a blue blood program, not even close. Colorado got one, and he's not playing. Why? B/c he's not ready...straight out of Prime's mouth. He's a DB too, so they could certainly use some help in the swiss cheese pass D they have.

I said "blue blood type" programs and added the qualifier "teams that are already loaded with talent". That is A&M. They have had top 10 classes most of the last 7 or 8 years.

Sanders addressed why McClain isn't playing. First thing he said was "show up to meetings on time." Basically said he's lazy and undisciplined. That's not relevant to discussion of Harbor.

 

[accock]

I would let him run at least 3 post routes per game. Turn on the burners.

 

[Deleted11512]

I would let him run at least 3 post routes per game. Turn on the burners.

How do you know he's not? Honest question. He's playing. I'm assuming they're sending him deep.

 

[accock]

How do you know he's not? Honest question. He's playing. I'm assuming they're sending him deep.

Haven't seen it yet. If they did send him I must have been intoxicated.

 

[Spinal Tap]

Harbor has been playing on special teams. KO and Punt. So he's been on the field, but I have no
idea how many snaps or targets he's had at WR.

 

[Rogue Cock]

Coaches are risk-averse, hoping the 'safest' option will produce. Coaches are not infallible, and must recognize and accept when those options do not produce. See Mario Anderson.

Harbor did not come here because 'South Carolina'. But if we continue trying to force what is painfully not there in the name of 'safe', he will LEAVE because 'South Carolina', I promise you that.

I think our track program and our track coaches played a much larger part in his recruitment and decision-making process than y'all are thinking.

 

[accock]

Harbor has been playing on special teams. KO and Punt. So he's been on the field, but I have no
idea how many snaps or targets he's had at WR.

He caught one for TD

 

[Dewilson]

Only at USC would a 5* top 20ish recruit end up being a developmental prospect. I guarantee if he had gone to Oregon, he'd have been an impact player by now.

SMH

 

[Dewilson]

What do you mean "force"? He wants to play WR. We're not forcing anything. Forcing it would be just throwing him out there when he's not ready, then everyone talking about what a bust he is b/c he's running wrong routes and can't make plays.

Unless you know him personally, you can't really promise anything. Beamer said before the season not to expect too much. Harbor himself said the same thing. All of us were warned that he wasn't going to be an instant impact. If you didn't heed that warning, that's your problem, not Beamer's.

I think one thing to remember is he was rated a 5* b/c of his raw, freakish athleticism. Not b/c he was a great football player. His film looks good playing against crap competition in MD. There is a chance the guy is just a track star in pads, and will never develop.

I have thought the same thing to be honest. We will see how he develops. fingers crossed.

 

[Spinal Tap]

He caught one for TD

Right. In his stat line he only shows that 1 catch for the TD. I'm wondering how many snaps he's been on the field
as a WR - not special teams. Really, the TD is the only time I remember him on offense. I haven't seen every minute
of every game.

 

[Deleted11512]

Haven't seen it yet. If they did send him I must have been intoxicated.

Are you watching all the routes that are run by guys that don't get the ball thrown their way?

 

[Deleted11512]

Harbor has been playing on special teams. KO and Punt. So he's been on the field, but I have no
idea how many snaps or targets he's had at WR.

He's getting 7-9 snaps a game. He's not getting open, so he's not getting targets. Simple as that. As another poster noted, he was the first read on the Sellers TD bomb, but was covered up so he went to Russell.

 

[kidrobinski]

I think our track program and our track coaches played a much larger part in his recruitment and decision-making process than y'all are thinking.

We’re certainly on ‘track’ to see if that’s true.

 

[kidrobinski]

Are you watching all the routes that are run by guys that don't get the ball thrown their way?

I am, at the home games. What’s your point?

 

[Deleted11512]

I am, at the home games. What’s your point?

No point, just a question. I think a lot of people assume it's not happening b/c the ball isn't thrown his way.

 

[Forkcock]

W

You're right. Context is important. He plays XL's position. You want him taking snaps away from XL? A&M is not a blue blood program, not even close. Colorado got one, and he's not playing. Why? B/c he's not ready...straight out of Prime's mouth. He's a DB too, so they could certainly use some help in the swiss cheese pass D they have.

There's only one group of people that shares blame for "not meeting expectations"....and that's those people that had higher expectations when they were told by the HC and the player himself not to expect too much.

People see 5 Star. That's all they see. They don't want to see anything else. They'd rather just blame a coach. It's ridiculous.

 

[Forkcock]

I think our track program and our track coaches played a much larger part in his recruitment and decision-making process than y'all are thinking.

Same here.

 

[Taco73]

Only at USC would a 5* top 20ish recruit end up being a developmental prospect. I guarantee if he had gone to Oregon, he'd have been an impact player by now.

Yep, too much ego went into landing him. It's an unfortunate side effect to recruiting. He was originally recruited as a DE / TE. Once you know he is going to shake loose. We gave him the option and it is what it is. I happen to think he will be a good one if he and us are patient.

 

[Carolina Doc]

I would let him run at least 3 post routes per game. Turn on the burners.

There are all sorts of fast guys, sprinters, out there who can do that. If you just want a decoy. Which isn't as big a weapon as you may believe.

 

[Deleted11512]

Yep, too much ego went into landing him. It's an unfortunate side effect to recruiting. He was originally recruited as a DE / TE. Once you know he is going to shake loose. We gave him the option and it is what it is. I happen to think he will be a good one if he and us are patient.

I think he will too. But we have to remember, every other WR on the roster is putting in much more work that he is b/c he's running track in spring/summer. Just b/c he can outrun them all, doesn't mean he's a better WR. I think it's 100% worth it for his potential. But patience is key.

 

[Celtic Riot]

Someone said on another thread if we don’t give Harbor some playing time he may consider jumping. I tend to agree. I know most considered him a defensive prospect and he may have things to learn about route running. What do we have to gain by not playing him some? Like others have said, I’d rather give him some looks than trotting Doty out there at WR. I think it’s time to think about giving him a reason to stay than trying to involve Doty in the offense.

I want to say this as respectfully as possible but if the kid isn't playing because he needs extra work at learning a new position on the college and SEC level and isn't comfortable enough in the position to put Doty on the bench, he probably isn't starting anywhere else in the country at WR either.

 

[Deleted11512]

I want to say this as respectfully as possible but if the kid isn't playing because he needs extra work at learning a new position on the college and SEC level and isn't comfortable enough in the position to put Doty on the bench, he probably isn't starting anywhere else in the country at WR either.

I agree with this. If he wants to play more and sooner he can always tell Beamer he'll play DE/TE. Much simpler positions to learn, and he's played them exclusively. He knew what he was getting into. Everyone is just putting undue pressure on the whole situation.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I understand the calls for patience, but you have to remember the context. You're talking about a team that can easily count the number of 5* prospects we've ever signed. This isn't Alabama where a 5* true freshman is behind 3-4 other 5* at the same position. We expect 5* to come in and contribute. We sell playing time to recruits.

 

[Celtic Riot]

I understand the calls for patience, but you have to remember the context. You're talking about a team that can easily count the number of 5* prospects we've ever signed. This isn't Alabama where a 5* true freshman is behind 3-4 other 5* at the same position. We expect 5* to come in and contribute. We sell playing time to recruits.

I think if he played DE we wouldn't have this discussion but since it is WR where he has very little experience. He played WR yes but he beat people because he was a freak it's different in the SEC if you can't run a good route it's hard to play. I mean he's getting routes and from what we know he just isn't open. That will change once he learns the position like I stated earlier if he can't hold Doty off right now then he isn't jumping in the portal and starting anywhere else.

 

[Deleted11512]

I think if he played DE we wouldn't have this discussion but since it is WR where he has very little experience. He played WR yes but he beat people because he was a freak it's different in the SEC if you can't run a good route it's hard to play. I mean he's getting routes and from what we know he just isn't open. That will change once he learns the position like I stated earlier if he can't hold Doty off right now then he isn't jumping in the portal and starting anywhere else.

Sir, this is a common sense free zone.

 

[Beanerball]

Thanks for all the input. I agree with the majority that it’s going to take time to learn how to play offense. Kid has mad athleticism. It took XL and Vann time to show up and they came in playing the position. I agree he’s getting the playing time he can handle and the coaches are trying to build his confidence, not kill it. Sure, he could jump, but only to play DE. He wants to catch the ball and that’s what we promised him.

 

[kidrobinski]

He's a giant. He's cut like Atlas. He's smart. He's NOT a 'speedster'; he is a *world class* sprinter. World class.

"Speed in pads is not the same' is false; nonsense. Speed is speed.

"Decoy is not effective' is false; nonsense. Provided we could actually block long enough to get a throw off, run him on some full posts and flys and *watch* the attention he will draw after that. The Safety will be in punt formation when he's in.

The 'situational/experience/learning/blah blah' is what gets the guys that HAVE BEEN playing on the field at several positions. If they were effective, we wouldn't be having these discussions. They're about as dangerous to a defense as warm milk. What would it hurt.

This is South Carolina, not Georgia. We don't have the luxury of keeping the good stuff for another occasion.

It was said above 'He wants to catch the ball and that’s what we promised him.'

Indeed. Watch his body language out there if you're at the games.

 

[Big JC]

I have to wonder if he chose South Carolina because we told him he could play WR right away and the other bigger name programs were telling him WR might not be his best position? College is not the time for a player to learn a new position, no matter how great of an athlete he is.

 

[Deleted11512]

He's a giant. He's cut like Atlas. He's smart. He's NOT a 'speedster'; he is a *world class* sprinter. World class.

"Speed in pads is not the same' is false; nonsense. Speed is speed.

"Decoy is not effective' is false; nonsense. Provided we could actually block long enough to get a throw off, run him on some full posts and flys and *watch* the attention he will draw after that. The Safety will be in punt formation when he's in.

The 'situational/experience/learning/blah blah' is what gets the guys that HAVE BEEN playing on the field at several positions. If they were effective, we wouldn't be having these discussions. They're about as dangerous to a defense as warm milk. What would it hurt.

This is South Carolina, not Georgia. We don't have the luxury of keeping the good stuff for another occasion.

It was said above 'He wants to catch the ball and that’s what we promised him.'

Indeed. Watch his body language out there if you're at the games.

There is a little more to running a route than running as fast as you can in a straight line...but I'm sure you know that. We're doing him no favors development wise if we just send him out there and say "just run as fast as you can in a straight line". And, if he's not comfortable yet, I promise you he's not operating as fast as he should.

Ace Sanders was a high 4.5/4.6 guy. But he was so damn quick and had elite acceleration that he was a threat every time he touched the ball. Just bc you run a 10.32 100M doesn't mean you're a lock to be a stud WR.

 

[Deleted11512]

I have to wonder if he chose South Carolina because we told him he could play WR right away and the other bigger name programs were telling him WR might not be his best position? College is not the time for a player to learn a new position, no matter how great of an athlete he is.

He would be a WR at Oregon as well. I think we were telling him TE, but he wanted to play WR. So we went with it.

 

[Beehaver]

He's a giant. He's cut like Atlas. He's smart. He's NOT a 'speedster'; he is a *world class* sprinter. World class.

"Speed in pads is not the same' is false; nonsense. Speed is speed.

"Decoy is not effective' is false; nonsense. Provided we could actually block long enough to get a throw off, run him on some full posts and flys and *watch* the attention he will draw after that. The Safety will be in punt formation when he's in.

The 'situational/experience/learning/blah blah' is what gets the guys that HAVE BEEN playing on the field at several positions. If they were effective, we wouldn't be having these discussions. They're about as dangerous to a defense as warm milk. What would it hurt.

This is South Carolina, not Georgia. We don't have the luxury of keeping the good stuff for another occasion.

It was said above 'He wants to catch the ball and that’s what we promised him.'

Indeed. Watch his body language out there if you're at the games.

I am not at the ball games, so what do you see in his Body language ?

 

[kidrobinski]

Just bc you run a 10.32 100M doesn't mean you're a lock to be a stud WR.

Nor does it preclude it. Only one way to find out no? Although if you read that I’m advocating running him long every down then I apologize for not being clearer, it may indeed be the catalyst that gets him that ‘comfortable’ you guys keep stressing on.

As I said, what is there to lose.

 

[kidrobinski]

I am not at the ball games, so what do you see in his Body language ?

It’s the body language of he wants to catch the ball and that’s what we promised him. Not a comfortable sight.

 

[Slim Chickens Gamecock]

He is a really fast runner and huge for his speed and learning to play football. If we had him involved in too many schemes it would be the same as the poster begging for Tree B's redshirt. too much too soon is not a good thing. I would suggest we use him as a decoy but everyone knows out line would not hold up long enough for deep routes so that is out the window.

 

[Deleted11512]

Nor does it preclude it. Only one way to find out no? Although if you read that I’m advocating running him long every down then I apologize for not being clearer, it may indeed be the catalyst that gets him that ‘comfortable’ you guys keep stressing on.

As I said, what is there to lose.

Nope. He's out there, he's getting reps every game, running routes every game. Typically if you're a WR not getting the ball thrown your way it's one of two issues: You're not getting open or the QB doesn't trust you as much as the other guys. I'm sure our OL has something to do with it too. I'm sure he's frustrated. I'm sure he wants the ball. The best way can do that is get open IMO.

 

[Forkcock]

It’s the body language of he wants to catch the ball and that’s what we promised him. Not a comfortable sight.

Well, is he open when Rattler has time to hit him?

 

[Carolina Doc]

Be patient with his development.

 

[Battleship Texas]

WR.

Can he not block well enough for TE?

 

[Rogue Cock]

Nope. He's out there, he's getting reps every game, running routes every game. Typically if you're a WR not getting the ball thrown your way it's one of two issues: You're not getting open or the QB doesn't trust you as much as the other guys. I'm sure our OL has something to do with it too. I'm sure he's frustrated. I'm sure he wants the ball. The best way can do that is get open IMO.

I've watched him. He just is not getting separation. He seems as though he isn't comfortable with the routes enough to play without thinking and as result isn't getting separation. Even on a go route you have to have a move to create a bit of separation.....we don't run 100 yard pass routes. Once he begins playing without thinking, he will be a weapon....a dangerous one.

 

[Carolina Doc]

I attended several scrimmages when Clowney was beginning his career here. He wasn't so hot at first, either. Looked lost. But when it clicked and the light finally came on, wow.