How about Mississippi!

[Darryl Steight]

Mississippi, 17 yeah!

 

[horshack.sixpack]

This is exactly what I’ve heard from a former teacher who works with me now, as well as my wife who also works in public school systems.

Teachers have to teach to the test because that’s how administrators measure success. The testing industry itself is a big dollar business.

 

[WilCoDawg]

Yeah. This is just not true. at all. what the " new math" does it teaches kids there are multiple ways to look at each problem, and they get to choose the way that's best for them. The people that are Really, really good at math. do it like this. they have different ways they use to solve each problem

In our school system, choosing your preferred method isn’t optional. Students have to do it the complex way(s) instead of whatever way the student finds most helpful. Not every student is going to love, enjoy, or understand math. Just like every kid isn‘t going to be Michael Jordan or Picasso.

 

[ChE1997]

I’m willing to bet very few people in this world (140 IQs and above maybe higher) use the 18+12 is 10 plus 20 method when doing advanced math.

Most people doing advanced math/calculus write it all out step by step.

LOL. OK. Let's bet.

I'm sure in "Advanced math" that addition is spelled out.

All the people I know do the simple math in their head. I'll bet at majority , in their head, do 10+10+8+2 for 18+12....

All my Calc and DiffEq professors didn't count off for addition of real number errors.

 

[BingleCocktail]

 

[ChE1997]

I completely understand. I hated it at first too. As I saw my daughter progressing in it, I realized she was being taught to do math the way I do math in my head, and I assume most people do.

For example, if you ask my daughter what 18+12, she could answer that really quickly and tell you 30. She would tell you how she did that was 18+10 and then plus 2. And she was taught to do it the same way on paper. Seeing it on paper threw me off big time. But when I talked to her about it, I realized I do the same mental exercise in my head.

I will say I did have to completely re learn long division, which was kinda embarrassing to admit.

This.

This is what helps math scores. Teaching the kids a bunch of ways are the "right" way and letting them figure out what works best for them.

Or Teaching kids "how to think".

 

[ChE1997]

In our school system, choosing your preferred method isn’t optional. Students have to do it the complex way(s) instead of whatever way the student finds most helpful. Not every student is going to love, enjoy, or understand math. Just like every kid isn‘t going to be Michael Jordan or Picasso.

When learning, everyone has to learn all the ways.

Because, how else would you know what works for each kid to do math better in each kids head?

After they learn all the ways, they get to use whatever way works for them in life. (and in higher math courses)

Not every kid will "love, enjoy" math. but every kid can understand it.

Not every kid can be Jordan, but they can know how to dibble and shoot.

Not every kid can be picasso, but they can know how to paint.

 

[CoastRat.sixpack]

As a conservative I have tons of issues with academics from the bottom all the way to the head of the DOE based on all the utter schit going on now. But my ex is a teacher and taught me things I didn't know about teaching one of which is working after school at home. The other is that "bad teachers" is an exaggerated theme. Don't get me wrong, every profession has bad actors but the crap that lots of teachers have to go thru with what the parents drop off to them is off the charts bad.

For the life of me, I can't figure out why you even needed to include the phrase "As a conservative" to this statement. It was fine statement on its own.

 

[WilCoDawg]

When learning, everyone has to learn all the ways.

Because, how else would you know what works for each kid to do math better in each kids head?

After they learn all the ways, they get to use whatever way works for them in life. (and in higher math courses)

Not every kid will "love, enjoy" math. but every kid can understand it.

Not every kid can be Jordan, but they can know how to dibble and shoot.

Not every kid can be picasso, but they can know how to paint.

So true. But teach them the basics before judging them on how well they paint or slam dunk. Let THEM decide what works best instead of grading them on how they do on all of the options. This is my point and is exactly what our schools here aren’t doing. It’s ”do it this way or you’re not doing it at all” and that isn’t catering to their individual learning.

I feel as if you’re completely missing the point.

 

[SyonaraStanz]

Teachers have to teach to the test because that’s how administrators measure success. The testing industry itself is a big dollar business.

Yeah, my half-assed understanding is funding is tied to test scores. Not sure if that’s true though.

 

[paindonthurt]

When learning, everyone has to learn all the ways.

Because, how else would you know what works for each kid to do math better in each kids head?

After they learn all the ways, they get to use whatever way works for them in life. (and in higher math courses)

Not every kid will "love, enjoy" math. but every kid can understand it.

Not every kid can be Jordan, but they can know how to dibble and shoot.

Not every kid can be picasso, but they can know how to paint.

Not every kid can understand math.

and not every kid is learning all the ways. I’d say most kids aren’t learning the “old” way.

 

[ChE1997]

So true. But teach them the basics before judging them on how well they paint or slam dunk. Let THEM decide what works best instead of grading them on how they do on all of the options. This is my point and is exactly what our schools here aren’t doing. It’s ”do it this way or you’re not doing it at all” and that isn’t catering to their individual learning.

I feel as if you’re completely missing the point.

I feel like you are missing the point. of you have a very poor view of humanity

They ARE "teaching the basics" . What we (or at least I ) was taught in the 80's was not "the basics" it was A way to do it, taught as THE way to do it.
And that's not the case. There are many ways to "do math". And with all of them get you to the correct answer. What they do now is teach the kids a bunch of ways, until, as the other poster said they learn to do it in their head.
The benefit is now everyone is taught that "the way they do it in their head is the right way". and you get EVERYONE that has confidence in math, understands math, and can do math.

I'm not saying everyone can do multivarible Differnetial equations. But they can do the math, and UNDERSTAND the math that 99.9% of people use in day to day life.

 

[ChE1997]

Not every kid can understand math.

and not every kid is learning all the ways. I’d say most kids aren’t learning the “old” way.

I fundamentally disagree with your first statement. It's a ****** way to see the world.

they are not learning the "old way" because the "old way" sucked for most kids....

We don't "teach" lots of things that don't make sense in the modern world anymore.

I have no idea how to use a slide rule. My dad used his every day, until they got calculators and computers... Same with this... Equip kids for today's world with the knowledge of how to do it better.

I'm sorry the school system hurt your feelings and made you look bad to your kids.

 

[ronpolk]

I fundamentally disagree with your first statement. It's a ****** way to see the world.

they are not learning the "old way" because the "old way" sucked for most kids....

We don't "teach" lots of things that don't make sense in the modern world anymore.

I have no idea how to use a slide rule. My dad used his every day, until they got calculators and computers... Same with this... Equip kids for today's world with the knowledge of how to do it better.

I'm sorry the school system hurt your feelings and made you look bad to your kids.

I think I’ve seen pain say before he does not have kids. Maybe he has niece or nephew in elementary. But my guess is, he has not seen firsthand the teaching methods now. Rather he has read Facebook post or Twitter and has formed an opinion that way.

I guess I just don’t agree there is a “right way” to do math. As long as you know how to follow proper formula to get the right answer, I don’t think it matters the method of addition or subtraction you take to get there.

 

[LordMcBuckethead]

Bump for Good News. Those who have orchestrated this need to be commended publicly IMO. There HAS to be something going on regegarding Parental Involvement improvement too one would think. I've always thought lack of child discipline and proper structure in the home was the leading cause of academic woes.

Parenting is probably 95% of it. Kids come to school and parents believe their responsibility is over.... Nope. I doesn't matter how much money you spend on education, if the parents at home are not making sure they are prepared every single day and cracking skulls on these little dipshits when they cannot sit still and behave for 30 minutes at a time..... teachers can't teach.

Teachers are not parents people.

 

[paindonthurt]

I fundamentally disagree with your first statement. It's a ****** way to see the world.

So. That doesn't mean every kid will get it no matter how you show them. Thats a harsh reality of humanity. We all aren't exactly alike.

they are not learning the "old way" because the "old way" sucked for most kids....

The old way worked for some, but you said LEARN ALL WAYS. They aren't learning all ways.

We don't "teach" lots of things that don't make sense in the modern world anymore.

We don't teach things that DO make sense in the modern world anymore. How to create a budget. How to live with minimal or no debt. etc. etc.

I have no idea how to use a slide rule. My dad used his every day, until they got calculators and computers... Same with this... Equip kids for today's world with the knowledge of how to do it better.

A calculator is a more advanced slide rule. Or a slide rule is a less advanced calculator. Math hasn't changed. The way you learn it may have changed but math is still the exact same today as it was 2000 years ago.

I'm sorry the school system hurt your feelings and made you look bad to your kids.

Ha i don't have kids, but i've taught/tutored newton's laws, algebra and business calculus to some people. They all made As or Bs.

Not sure why you are so butt hurt b/c i disagree with your very definitive stances.

 

[WilCoDawg]

I fundamentally disagree with your first statement. It's a ****** way to see the world.

they are not learning the "old way" because the "old way" sucked for most kids....

We don't "teach" lots of things that don't make sense in the modern world anymore.

I have no idea how to use a slide rule. My dad used his every day, until they got calculators and computers... Same with this... Equip kids for today's world with the knowledge of how to do it better.

I'm sorry the school system hurt your feelings and made you look bad to your kids.

Again, and please re-read this 5x before responding, it’s fine teaching kids multiple methods to get from A to Z. My problem is forcing them to use a method other than what they’re comfortable with. Our schools here in the Nashville area force the kids to test on all of the methods. That. Is. Not. Working. For. All. Kids. Especially the ones already struggling in math. Let the kids choose they’re preferred method.

t’s no different than forcing a left-handed kid to write right-handed. Could a kid do it? Some could. Some couldn’t. And what’s the point as long as they can write?

 

[ChE1997]

So. That doesn't mean every kid will get it no matter how you show them. Thats a harsh reality of humanity. We all aren't exactly alike.

The old way worked for some, but you said LEARN ALL WAYS. They aren't learning all ways.

We don't teach things that DO make sense in the modern world anymore. How to create a budget. How to live with minimal or no debt. etc. etc.

A calculator is a more advanced slide rule. Or a slide rule is a less advanced calculator. Math hasn't changed. The way you learn it may have changed but math is still the exact same today as it was 2000 years ago.

Ha i don't have kids, but i've taught/tutored newton's laws, algebra and business calculus to some people. They all made As or Bs.

Not sure why you are so butt hurt b/c i disagree with your very definitive stances.

We just fundamentally disagree. I'm sure not ALL kids will get it I concede that. But, as the data from mississippi shows, many many more "get it" now than did. That was your original celebration post. I don't understand why you want to celebrate how awesome the change is then say the means to the change suck and are worse than the old way. .

If you don't have a kid, I don't think you know what they teach and what they don't.

I'm fairly certain math has changed a great deal in the last 2000 years....
I think calculus, newton's laws, Hell the number 0 wasn't a thing 2000 years ago, neither was base 10,

Also Algebra created in 820 AD

It seems you tutored kids that were already smart.

 

[WilCoDawg]

Parenting is probably 95% of it. Kids come to school and parents believe their responsibility is over.... Nope. I doesn't matter how much money you spend on education, if the parents at home are not making sure they are prepared every single day and cracking skulls on these little dipshits when they cannot sit still and behave for 30 minutes at a time..... teachers can't teach.

Teachers are not parents people.

I agree with this mostly, but don’t fault kids who can’t sit still. It’s not their fault that they aren’t given outlets for their young energy (especially boys). But this is yet another problem with the traditional education system.

 

[ChE1997]

Again, and please re-read this 5x before responding, it’s fine teaching kids multiple methods to get from A to Z. My problem is forcing them to use a method other than what they’re comfortable with. Our schools here in the Nashville area force the kids to test on all of the methods. That. Is. Not. Working. For. All. Kids. Especially the ones already struggling in math. Let the kids choose they’re preferred method.

t’s no different than forcing a left-handed kid to write right-handed. Could a kid do it? Some could. Some couldn’t. And what’s the point as long as they can write?

I get it. and I see you are in the middle of it. But i have come out the other end.

They do that in Texas too. In early elementary, my kids had to do each math problem the 4-6 ways every time. and it sucked. and the kids hated doing it "the other stupid ways".

But they discovered the way that made sense to them. And the way it made sense to one, was different than the other one.

Now, they don't have to do it any particular way. They do it the way that works for them

To use your analogy, it's teaching kids to write with both hands, then let them chose which one is best. (Which is how your kids learned which way to write BTW)

 

[MidsouthDawg]

One of the major reasons for the rise in literacy is the fact that they're teaching phonics again. I learned to read using phonics in the 70's and then at some point, they stopped, it was seen as an "old" technique. But Mississippi reinstated it and we all see the results.

 

[Cantdoitsal]

Sadly this is largely about going back to teaching methods that work. Great that we’ve done it. But sad that just using proven concepts that were abandoned makes Mississippi stand out.

ETA: that and our education system isn’t full of corrupt teachers and unions officials so they mostly wanted to be back in school and helping students.

It's gonna take a while for millions of kids to catch up that were subjected to The Teacher's Union Wrath during Covid that was based on junk science, deception, greed and laziness.