How did Stoops do it? Can Beamer reverse it?

[18IsTheMan]

Our first 22 years in the league, we went 16-6 against UK. For a 14-year stretch, we went 13-1. It was to the point that UK was mostly a football afterthought along with Vandy. We just assumed a UK win to start the season. It was pretty much a non-competitive series.

Stoops was hired at UK and has pretty much flipped the script, going 7-4 against us in his 11 seasons. He hasn't blown up recruiting, I'd say mostly recruiting comparably to us.

Beamer, to his credit, has slowed the bleeding the last 2 years by getting back-to-back wins in the series for the first time in a decade. Getting back on top of UK is a marginal achievement, at best, but a necessary one if we have any aspirations of being anything more than an afterthought in the league.

 

[gamecock stock]

Stoops has proven his coaching ability over the years, including when he was Defensive Coordinator at Florida State. It's "coaching" ability; nothing more nor less. Look at our history. The Head Coaches who had reasonable success (Carlen, Morrison, Holtz and Spurrier) were decent recruiters. Where they excelled was in getting the most out of the talent on hand. Dan Mullens was a lot like that. They were not reputed strong recruiters like a Brad Scott and Will Muschamp. I don't believe anyone knows whether Beamer has that kind of ability. The 2 games against UT and Clemson in 2022 are light in evidence.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Stoops has proven his coaching ability over the years, including when he was Defensive Coordinator at Florida State. It's "coaching" ability; nothing more nor less. Look at our history. The Head Coaches who had reasonable success (Carlen, Morrison, Holtz and Spurrier) were decent recruiters. Where they excelled was in getting the most out of the talent on hand. Dan Mullens was a lot like that. They were not reputed strong recruiters like a Brad Scott and Will Muschamp. I don't believe anyone knows whether Beamer has that kind of ability. The 2 games against UT and Clemson in 2022 are light in evidence.

Stoops has the sweetest gig in all of the SEC, maybe college football. He makes nearly $9 million/year to coach football at a place that doesn't truly care about it. Sure, they want to be good at football, but basketball will always be #1 there by a long shot. As long as he makes a bowl game most year, they are tickled pink. No pressure to make it to the SECCG (for however much longer that lasts) or the CFP or any such thing.

Beamer's going to have to show he can identify and hire good assistants. That's one aspect where Dabo, hate him or love him, distinguished himself. Beamer has to get in good assistants who can get the most out of the talent.

I fear, though, a 3* roster is most likely going to produce 3* results.

I don't know if it's possible, but we need to get Kentucky back into the "reliable win" column. It would be something if we could beat them 3 years in a row. Now that we are getting whipped by Mizzou, we need this UK game to be a W most years.

 

[gamecock stock]

Stoops has the sweetest gig in all of the SEC, maybe college football. He makes nearly $9 million/year to coach football at a place that doesn't truly care about it. Sure, they want to be good at football, but basketball will always be #1 there by a long shot. As long as he makes a bowl game most year, they are tickled pink. No pressure to make it to the SECCG (for however much longer that lasts) or the CFP or any such thing.

Beamer's going to have to show he can identify and hire good assistants. That's one aspect where Dabo, hate him or love him, distinguished himself. Beamer has to get in good assistants who can get the most out of the talent.

I fear, though, a 3* roster is most likely going to produce 3* results.

I don't know if it's possible, but we need to get Kentucky back into the "reliable win" column. It would be something if we could beat them 3 years in a row. Now that we are getting whipped by Mizzou, we need this UK game to be a W most years.

Totally agree with every word there.

If we lose to Kentucky, can we steal one from LSU at home the next week? If not, we may have to wait until we have an extra week to prepare for Texas A&M. I don't mean to be down on Beamer but, talking about hiring good assistants, I still don't understand the Loggains hire, after the Satterfield results.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I still don't understand the Loggains hire, after the Satterfield results.

Beamer said his phone blew up with hundreds of coaches expressing interest in the position. Considering the absolute urgency of nailing the OC hiring, Loggains was a risky move. I think there were some other potential candidates we could have looked at.

 

[gamecox4982]

The teams with better players typically win most of the time. I personally believe coaching is a small part of the outcome.

 

[Atlanta Cock]

The teams with better players typically win most of the time. I personally believe coaching is a small part of the outcome.

I disagree. Both are important. But better players tend to want to play for better coaches. Dabo is the exception, but as has been acknowledged he was smart enough to hire great assistants. Beamer has yet to prove to me he can actually coach. Thus far, he's been nothing but a highly paid cheerleader. We're no better than when he first started 4 years ago. Arguably we're worse as the conference has gotten stronger with the addition Texas and OU

 

[18IsTheMan]

The teams with better players typically win most of the time. I personally believe coaching is a small part of the outcome.

A&M under Jimbo largely refutes this viewpoint.

It's always a mix of player talent and coaching. No coach wins big without great players, but a collection of great players does not equate to winning big. Look at UK in basketball under Calipari.

 

[gamecox4982]

A&M under Jimbo largely refutes this viewpoint.

It's always a mix of player talent and coaching. No coach wins big without great players, but a collection of great players does not equate to winning big. Look at UK in basketball under Calipari.

Four and five stars beat two and three stars with Saban as their coach 99% of the time.

 

[Gamecock Jacque]

Four and five stars beat two and three stars with Saban as their coach 99% of the time.

Saban lost to LA Tech didn't he?

 

[capngamecock]

Beamer is 2-1 and on a 2 game win streak vs them. They aren't the issue right now.

 

[DeBoer31]

WTH is all this Saban talk? Literal GOAT of college football and one of the GOATS in any level of coaching ever has nothing to do with our present coaching staff.

 

[gamecox4982]

Saban lost to LA Tech didn't he?

Yes with 3 stars - if coaching meant that much he would have won…

 

[gamecox4982]

I disagree. Both are important. But better players tend to want to play for better coaches. Dabo is the exception, but as has been acknowledged he was smart enough to hire great assistants. Beamer has yet to prove to me he can actually coach. Thus far, he's been nothing but a highly paid cheerleader. We're no better than when he first started 4 years ago. Arguably we're worse as the conference has gotten stronger with the addition Texas and OU

Saban took coaches that other schools fired for lack of wins. They come to Bama with 4 and 5 stars and win Championships

 

[Gamecock Jacque]

Saban took coaches that other schools fired for lack of wins. They come to Bama with 4 and 5 stars and win.

So 4 and 5 stars just started "coming" to Alabama? Before NIL? And that had nothing to do with the staff?

 

[Tngamecock]

Our first 22 years in the league, we went 16-6 against UK. For a 14-year stretch, we went 13-1. It was to the point that UK was mostly a football afterthought along with Vandy. We just assumed a UK win to start the season. It was pretty much a non-competitive series.

Stoops was hired at UK and has pretty much flipped the script, going 7-4 against us in his 11 seasons. He hasn't blown up recruiting, I'd say mostly recruiting comparably to us.

Beamer, to his credit, has slowed the bleeding the last 2 years by getting back-to-back wins in the series for the first time in a decade. Getting back on top of UK is a marginal achievement, at best, but a necessary one if we have any aspirations of being anything more than an afterthought in the league.

He has a 73-65 record for a .529 winning percentage. Yeah sign me up for some of that.
He is 1-18 vs top 10 opponents. A whopping 35-55 in theSEC. It’s amazing how the hype doesn’t fit the narrative for Stoops. But in typical 18 fashion, well, we know the con.

 

[gamecox4982]

There’s a reason the NFL has salary cap for teams… The league must have a competitive balance or it will fail

 

[18IsTheMan]

Well, I asked and Beamer answered.

Has the trend against UK been FULLY reversed? Not entirely, but we have won 3 in a row and beat them convincingly on their home field, so I'd say we're on the way there.

It's not the Super Bowl, but this is a game that must fairly reliably be in the win column for us to have any shot of being in the mid to lower-upper tier in the conference, which is our goal.

 

[Uscg1984]

It's also interesting how much the perception of Stoops changes based on one game.

As I said in a previous thread, to the extent Stoops is generally viewed as a successful coach at Kentucky, it is due in large part to his success against the Gamecocks. Take away those wins over Carolina, or even half of them, and his tenure at KY just looks much more average.

 

[18IsTheMan]

It's also interesting how much the perception of Stoops changes based on one game.

It's very intriguing to me. I mean, he's been there 11 years and has 8 good seasons in a row (kind of discounting the 5-6 2020 covid season since that was weird, but they still won the Gator Bowl). 8 straight bowl wins. A couple of 10-win seasons fairly recently. As far as football at Kentucky goes, they really can't expect anything more than what Stoops has done.

I know many Gamecocks fans were in the pooper over the last week, but we had a dismal showing against a Sun Belt team by our 4th year head coach who is still proving himself. Stoops is a proven entity at UK and they'd be hard-pressed to find someone who can do better.

 

[PrestonyteParrot]

It's very intriguing to me. I mean, he's been there 11 years and has 8 good seasons in a row (kind of discounting the 5-6 2020 covid season since that was weird, but they still won the Gator Bowl). 8 straight bowl wins. A couple of 10-win seasons fairly recently. As far as football at Kentucky goes, they really can't expect anything more than what Stoops has done.

I know many Gamecocks fans were in the pooper over the last week, but we had a dismal showing against a Sun Belt team by our 4th year head coach who is still proving himself. Stoops is a proven entity at UK and they'd be hard-pressed to find someone who can do better.

Are those who were advocating for Stoops as our next coach based on that record having 2nd thoughts? lol

 

[Gradstudent]

It's also interesting how much the perception of Stoops changes based on one game.

Its also interesting, some of the posts below that were not buying the Stoops Hype

Beamer is 2-1 and on a 2 game win streak vs them. They aren't the issue right now.

He has a 73-65 record for a .529 winning percentage. Yeah sign me up for some of that.
He is 1-18 vs top 10 opponents. A whopping 35-55 in theSEC. It’s amazing how the hype doesn’t fit the narrative for Stoops. But in typical 18 fashion, well, we know the con.

 

[Tngamecock]

Its also interesting, some of the posts below that were not buying the Stoops Hype

yep….he averages 6.6 wins per year in year 12. Beamer 6.86 In year 4. Yet stoops is praised by many here. If Beamer is averaging that in year 12 I will lead the get rid of charge.

 

[18IsTheMan]

He has a 73-65 record for a .529 winning percentage. Yeah sign me up for some of that.
He is 1-18 vs top 10 opponents. A whopping 35-55 in theSEC. It’s amazing how the hype doesn’t fit the narrative for Stoops. But in typical 18 fashion, well, we know the con.

Oddly, you quoted my OP, but nothing in your response has anything do with what I said. I spoke only to how Stoops flipped the script in our head-to-head matchup with UK after he was hired. That much is inarguable. I didn't say a word about his overall record as a head coach. Nothing you said has anything to do with anything I said. In typical Tngamecock fashion.

 

[Piscis]

yep….he averages 6.6 wins per year in year 12. Beamer 6.86 In year 4. Yet stoops is praised by many here. If Beamer is averaging that in year 12 I will lead the get rid of charge.

As someone who has some family who live in KY and those people have kids who went to UK recently I can tell you that UK sports fans view football season as a way to have something to look at as they count down to basketball season. As long as Stoops wins 7 games a year and goes to a bowl and doesn't get embarrassed, his job is safe. The KY fans I talked with this weekend said losing like they did to Carolina was embarrassing and Stoops should be fired.

 

[The Reel Ess]

IDK if this is the case with Stoops at UK. But you need to fist lock down your state's recruiting, stopping the big neighbors from poaching the better talent. Whenever we've had any sustained success here, we've had some or most of the best in state talent, and actually poached other states.

 

[The Reel Ess]

As long as Stoops wins 7 games a year and goes to a bowl and doesn't get embarrassed, his job is safe.

This sounds like the formula for staying employed here. Make a bowl berth the min. expectation and have a good run every 4 years or so and you could coach here for a couple decades. Alas, this is a very difficult place for a coach to recruit well if he isn't already a proven winner.

 

[lexgamecock]

Stoops wanted the aTm job but was turned down. I think that has a lot to do with how his team played.

 

[Gamecock Jacque]

Stoops wanted the aTm job but was turned down. I think that has a lot to do with how his team played.

His big problem was he publicly wanted it.

 

[Piscis]

His big problem was he publicly wanted it.

Someone who follows college football a lot more closely than I do said Stoops has lost the locker room. They said he lost it when he went after the aTm job. They also said he lost a lot of the fan base, they are looking for a reason to get rid of him now.

 

[Gamecock Jacque]

Someone who follows college football a lot more closely than I do said Stoops has lost the locker room. They said he lost it when he went after the aTm job. They also said he lost a lot of the fan base, they are looking for a reason to get rid of him now.

The enthusiasm of the fanbase was off the charts though. Until last week.

 

[18IsTheMan]

The enthusiasm of the fanbase was off the charts though. Until last week.

Right. It really mirrors our situation. We were in the pooper last week. Now we're on cloud 9...at least temporarily.

Short of them totally tanking on the season, I can't see them getting rid of their winningest coach ever who has taken them to 8 straight bowl games. I know making a bowl doesn't mean nearly what it used to, but for programs like us and UK, it's still a measure of success.

The furor over him courting the A&M job is probably overblown. Do UK fans REALLY care that much about football? I don't think so. Besides, he's hardly the first coach in history to dip his toe in the water to pursue another job, only to end up staying where he already is (whether by his choice or someone else's).

It's a dangerous proposition for them if they really did want to boot him out (especially based on one bad game). The odds are very long that they'd find anyone else who could experience the success that Stoops has. They still have a very strong shot at a bowl this year, and if that happens, I think all this will blow over.

 

[PrestonyteParrot]

Right. It really mirrors our situation. We were in the pooper last week. Now we're on cloud 9...at least temporarily.

They are even asking the same question.
Who would be his replacement?

 

[Piscis]

Right. It really mirrors our situation. We were in the pooper last week. Now we're on cloud 9...at least temporarily.

Short of them totally tanking on the season, I can't see them getting rid of their winningest coach ever who has taken them to 8 straight bowl games. I know making a bowl doesn't mean nearly what it used to, but for programs like us and UK, it's still a measure of success.

The furor over him courting the A&M job is probably overblown. Do UK fans REALLY care that much about football? I don't think so. Besides, he's hardly the first coach in history to dip his toe in the water to pursue another job, only to end up staying where he already is (whether by his choice or someone else's).

It's a dangerous proposition for them if they really did want to boot him out (especially based on one bad game). The odds are very long that they'd find anyone else who could experience the success that Stoops has. They still have a very strong shot at a bowl this year, and if that happens, I think all this will blow over.

He has definitely made them relevant, something they hadn't been for quite a while. Maybe it is a vocal minority who are down on him. I do know the UK fans I know care about football about the same as most SEC team fans care about basketball. They want a good football team but they aren't caught up in football like they are in basketball.

They were pretty excited about the season, I will grant that. I wonder how much of last week was looking past us to Georgia this week. I won't be surprised if they look a lot better against Georgia than they did against us. With that thought in mind, I wonder how much more seriously LSU is taking us after last week? The ability to "sneak up" on LSU is pretty well gone now. We are LSU's first SEC game. I know Kelly doesn't want to get behind the conference 8 ball early in the season. LSU can overcome the ND loss if they win the conference or even finish second in the conference. 2 or more losses and not playing for the conference championship would probably push them out of the CFP.

 

[18IsTheMan]

He has definitely made them relevant, something they hadn't been for quite a while. Maybe it is a vocal minority who are down on him. I do know the UK fans I know care about football about the same as most SEC team fans care about basketball. They want a good football team but they aren't caught up in football like they are in basketball.

They were pretty excited about the season, I will grant that. I wonder how much of last week was looking past us to Georgia this week. I won't be surprised if they look a lot better against Georgia than they did against us. With that thought in mind, I wonder how much more seriously LSU is taking us after last week? The ability to "sneak up" on LSU is pretty well gone now. We are LSU's first SEC game. I know Kelly doesn't want to get behind the conference 8 ball early in the season. LSU can overcome the ND loss if they win the conference or even finish second in the conference. 2 or more losses and not playing for the conference championship would probably push them out of the CFP.

Yes, our DL has their full attention, so we shall see. Even though the DL played great against ODU, given the game's outcome, it's likely that UK fans didn't put much stock in it.

It also would not surprise me at all for them to play much better against UGA. Part of me thinks we caught them sleeping since we played so poorly against ODU. And I don't think Vandagriff can possibly be as bad as he actually looked against us.

 

[PrestonyteParrot]

He has definitely made them relevant, something they hadn't been for quite a while. Maybe it is a vocal minority who are down on him. I do know the UK fans I know care about football about the same as most SEC team fans care about basketball. They want a good football team but they aren't caught up in football like they are in basketball.

They were pretty excited about the season, I will grant that. I wonder how much of last week was looking past us to Georgia this week. I won't be surprised if they look a lot better against Georgia than they did against us. With that thought in mind, I wonder how much more seriously LSU is taking us after last week? The ability to "sneak up" on LSU is pretty well gone now. We are LSU's first SEC game. I know Kelly doesn't want to get behind the conference 8 ball early in the season. LSU can overcome the ND loss if they win the conference or even finish second in the conference. 2 or more losses and not playing for the conference championship would probably push them out of the CFP.

I think they are really pi$$ed because not only did we kick their butts, but we stole Game Day from them.

 

[Gamecock Jacque]

Yes, our DL has their full attention, so we shall see. Even though the DL played great against ODU, given the game's outcome, it's likely that UK fans didn't put much stock in it.

It also would not surprise me at all for them to play much better against UGA. Part of me thinks we caught them sleeping since we played so poorly against ODU. And I don't think Vandagriff can possibly be as bad as he actually looked against us.

Georgia will make Vandagriff look bad.

 

[92Pony]

Georgia will make Vandagriff look bad.

Georgia will pummel UK. We have next to no offense and beat UK 31-6. Georgia will pummel UK.

 

[Piscis]

Georgia will pummel UK. We have next to no offense and beat UK 31-6. Georgia will pummel UK.

Kirby will pull the starters in the third if Georgia is up by three scores and UK isn't moving the ball and threatening. UK always seems to give Georgia fits. UK rarely wins but they are always a tough out for Georgia. I think Georgia takes a win over UK for granted so they don't always bring their A game.

Our offense scored 24 pts. 7 came off of the pick six which was one of the worst throws I can remember a college qb throwing. If UK really is as bad as they looked Saturday they may not win another game this season. I don't think they are that bad.