How do you read the trajectory of Penn State football?

[blion72]

looking at the team finishing strong in 2019 with third consecutive NY6 game, this team felt to be on a very strong trend. Even in 2019 we had the Clifford injuries along with Noah Cain impacting the team. This felt to be a team on a positive trajectory. Going into 2020 season, we were rated by most pre-season prognosticators as a top 10 team. Then we started to get the COVID impacts with BIG cancel season and then back on. No spring practice, and the entire PSU practice regimen being impacted. Micah opts out, and Journey has career ending situation. We lose Noah Cain in first series at Indiana, so now only 2 FR backs and D Ford. We still outgain Indy by over 2x but lose game on a series of flukes and possibly a marginal ref call on the last play. The team has a hard time responding, and the schedule does not favor recovery. Then 2021 we get off to a strong start and Clifford goes down with no apparent backup. Team is unable to recover from his injury, and in the bowl game we lose the core of the team who did not play. Bottom line is we have two seasons that wound up at .500 together, but filled with a lot of unusual circumstances.

Do you think it is hard to judge the trajectory of the team using these two seasons? I have to say that I do not like some of the on field coaching decisions by the staff (i.e. 4th down attempts in your own territory early in games, playing injured starting QBs too long, low odds plays when we need a yard, etc), but in general the staff does seem to have the team going in a positive direction. In terms or recruiting, PSU seems to be ahead of the rest of the BIG other than tOSU. We also have drawn very tough schedules and whatever happened to opening with a couple teams we can beat no matter how bad we perform? With the high turnover of guys leaving for NFL (shows we are sending players to NFL), we need to be able to start season other than in a firestorm game day one.

 

[nittanyfan333]

I’ll tell you after this season. Way too much turnover the last few years in the coaching ranks on offense and underperformance. I think this year is the fork in the road.

EDIT: keep in mind it was more than Clifford and cain’s injuries. Journey brown had to retire, plus if I remember correctly there were a few higher 4* players that had to retire early or quit for whatever reason, plus some that didn’t pan out. Justin shorter, Ricky slide, dunmore, lance dixon, Aeneas Hawkins, Enzo Jennings….. etc. while sure, not kids that were counted on to be stars, absolutely depth guys at a minimum. I’d argue shorter, slade and JB were absolutely counted on to be top tier starters. And while I do believe “next man up” it’s not easy to “next man up” 3+ top level starters. I honestly think the last 2 years were a cacophony of a lot of things going wrong. Which is why let me see what happens this year before I give an opinion

 

[Bison13]

Agree with the above post I will add that I think they need to find some more mental toughness and leader ship from within the ranks. Guys like Michael Robinson and Poz and Marcus Allen and trace more recently were so mentally tough and great leaders, others followed them and their attitudes rubbed off on the team.

I don’t think Clifford is that type of leader and brisker was kind of like those old guys but need more

 

[MrTailgate]

11-11 seems to suggest a downward trending. Franklin has recruited well but it’s the same old problems (offensive OL, quarterback limbo, horrible in game adjustments, lack of overall player development, etc). I have certainly lowered expectations and I don’t believe that we are close to challenging OSU anytime in the foreseeable future.

 

[Bvillebaron]

I’ll tell you after this season. Way too much turnover the last few years in the coaching ranks on offense and underperformance. I think this year is the fork in the road.

EDIT: keep in mind it was more than Clifford and cain’s injuries. Journey brown had to retire, plus if I remember correctly there were a few higher 4* players that had to retire early or quit for whatever reason, plus some that didn’t pan out. Justin shorter, Ricky slide, dunmore, lance dixon, Aeneas Hawkins, Enzo Jennings….. etc. while sure, not kids that were counted on to be stars, absolutely depth guys at a minimum. I’d argue shorter, slade and JB were absolutely counted on to be top tier starters. And while I do believe “next man up” it’s not easy to “next man up” 3+ top level starters. I honestly think the last 2 years were a cacophony of a lot of things going wrong. Which is why let me see what happens this year before I give an opinion

Couldn’t agree more. Listened to a podcast with Brandon Short and he said the same thing—lack of depth has recently hurt the team.

 

[step.eng69]

How do you read the trajectory of Penn State football?​

Obviously...

Eenie, meenie, miney, moe, Catch a tiger by the toe, If he hollers, let him go, Eenie, meenie, miney, moe.

 

[s1uggo72]

Inflection point

 

[BobPSU92]

 

[marshall23]

I was on cloud 9 after the Cotton Bowl. Parsons leaving and Journey Brown's health left a huge void both on the field and in squad leadership.
I thought we had righted the ship till Clifford got injured vs. Iowa.
I agree that more mental toughness is necessary. I'm happy to see Franklin with the contract issue settled and I hear he is in lockstep with the new AD.
James recruits well and runs a program that I can support and respect.

 

[NittanyBuff]

11-11 seems to suggest a downward trending. Franklin has recruited well but it’s the same old problems (offensive OL, quarterback limbo, horrible in game adjustments, lack of overall player development, etc). I have certainly lowered expectations and I don’t believe that we are close to challenging OSU anytime in the foreseeable future.

It goes back to what we have said for years, JF is a solid recruiter and CEO, and an average game day coach. If he hits on any of the young QB's the future can still be bright, love the hire of Diaz as well.

 

[cac@PSU]

Lions need the defense to play an A game each week.

 

[lemonears]

looking at the team finishing strong in 2019 with third consecutive NY6 game, this team felt to be on a very strong trend. Even in 2019 we had the Clifford injuries along with Noah Cain impacting the team. This felt to be a team on a positive trajectory. Going into 2020 season, we were rated by most pre-season prognosticators as a top 10 team. Then we started to get the COVID impacts with BIG cancel season and then back on. No spring practice, and the entire PSU practice regimen being impacted. Micah opts out, and Journey has career ending situation. We lose Noah Cain in first series at Indiana, so now only 2 FR backs and D Ford. We still outgain Indy by over 2x but lose game on a series of flukes and possibly a marginal ref call on the last play. The team has a hard time responding, and the schedule does not favor recovery. Then 2021 we get off to a strong start and Clifford goes down with no apparent backup. Team is unable to recover from his injury, and in the bowl game we lose the core of the team who did not play. Bottom line is we have two seasons that wound up at .500 together, but filled with a lot of unusual circumstances.

Do you think it is hard to judge the trajectory of the team using these two seasons? I have to say that I do not like some of the on field coaching decisions by the staff (i.e. 4th down attempts in your own territory early in games, playing injured starting QBs too long, low odds plays when we need a yard, etc), but in general the staff does seem to have the team going in a positive direction. In terms or recruiting, PSU seems to be ahead of the rest of the BIG other than tOSU. We also have drawn very tough schedules and whatever happened to opening with a couple teams we can beat no matter how bad we perform? With the high turnover of guys leaving for NFL (shows we are sending players to NFL), we need to be able to start season other than in a firestorm game day one.

The 2020 season was a disaster caused by Parsons' selfishness. The 2021 season was much worse than it should have been because Clifford is not a good QB. He is a fine young man but has limited ability. Levis should have been the starting QB the last two seasons. Take away Parsons' selfishness and the mistake with Levis and we are gloating about the past 2 seasons having been stellar.

 

[JoeLion]

Ascending!

 

[MrTailgate]

The 2020 season was a disaster caused by Parsons' selfishness. The 2021 season was much worse than it should have been because Clifford is not a good QB. He is a fine young man but has limited ability. Levis should have been the starting QB the last two seasons. Take away Parsons' selfishness and the mistake with Levis and we are gloating about the past 2 seasons having been stellar.

Parsons made the right call. Given the pandemic and having a young child, he needed to protect his future stream of earnings. If he was out partying around or in large settings, I understand your comments more. But if he was cautious and not taking risks, then I will bet that Franklin and every one of his teammates supported his decision fully. Enough about that.

If you get twisted about that, buckle up for the new normal. Portal, players not playing in bowl games unless it’s the playoffs, etc. A kid like Parsons now needs to be recruited every year. First to get him, next to keep him. 5 years from now, the game and structure we know won’t be recognizable. A kid just opting out in a pandemic will seem saintly.

 

[MrTailgate]

It goes back to what we have said for years, JF is a solid recruiter and CEO, and an average game day coach. If he hits on any of the young QB's the future can still be bright, love the hire of Diaz as well.

Staff movement is one thing but the constant upheaval year to year is a factor as well.

 

[nittanymoops]

The 2020 season was a disaster caused by Parsons' selfishness. The 2021 season was much worse than it should have been because Clifford is not a good QB. He is a fine young man but has limited ability. Levis should have been the starting QB the last two seasons. Take away Parsons' selfishness and the mistake with Levis and we are gloating about the past 2 seasons having been stellar.

I'm curious about this way of thinking. We have two points of data here to compare in my view regarding Levis' ability:

Levis start vs. Rutgers (winless) in 2019: 8/14 81 yards, 1 TD, 4 sacks, 17 carries/136 yards
NOTES: This team had Parsons, Brown, Slade, a running game to speak of, and yet this was a one score game INTO the 4Q

Veilleux relief vs Rutgers (improved greatly) in 2021: 15/24 235 yards, 3 TDs 1 sack, 10 carries for 40 yards
NOTES: This team had no running game to speak of and Clifford was yanked due to illness, not injury, and postgame reports indicate much of the team had a flu bug running wild.

None of this is to defend Clifford. But I believe he was the clear choice over Levis as he is a much better passer. Levis, in his starts and appearances in 2020 did not do much to elevate himself or prove he was the guy and Clifford resumed his starting role. He clearly seems to be a runner first and doesn't appear to be the best choice in reading defenses.

Levis has moved on to UK and had a fine season, not superb, 24TD/13 INT is not a great season in my view. And looking at UK's schedule last year, they played two ranked teams in the vaunted SEC (UGa and Fla). More may have been ranked at the time of the game, but I didn't do a deep dive.

I get that the backup will always be beloved, but at the points in time where Levis was given the opportunity to shine at PSU, I didn't see it, and the stats don't seem to back it up. I wish him well at UK and the future, but I'm just not seeing this superstar that other fans see.

 

[WVilleLion]

The 2020 season was a disaster caused by Parsons' selfishness. The 2021 season was much worse than it should have been because Clifford is not a good QB. He is a fine young man but has limited ability. Levis should have been the starting QB the last two seasons. Take away Parsons' selfishness and the mistake with Levis and we are gloating about the past 2 seasons having been stellar.

I disagree with you laying 2020 all on Micah. Would he have helped, absolutely. However, the terrible loss at IU with the controversial ending, coupled with the impact that Franklin not having his family with him had in terms of lack of energy, which trickled down to the team. Not to mention #1 RB getting hurt first half of first game. It was a trifecta + of everything that could go wrong, going wrong. Team finally found identity late, but 2020 was ugly.

 

[bbrown]

Parsons made the right call. Given the pandemic and having a young child, he needed to protect his future stream of earnings. If he was out partying around or in large settings, I understand your comments more. But if he was cautious and not taking risks, then I will bet that Franklin and every one of his teammates supported his decision fully. Enough about that.

If you get twisted about that, buckle up for the new normal. Portal, players not playing in bowl games unless it’s the playoffs, etc. A kid like Parsons now needs to be recruited every year. First to get him, next to keep him. 5 years from now, the game and structure we know won’t be recognizable. A kid just opting out in a pandemic will seem saintly.

+100. more than a few posters are going to have to up their meds.

 

[bbrown]

Lions need the defense to play an A game each week.

JMO but I think its the Offense that is going to have to play their A game. Gone, for the most part, are the days of winning by scoring 24 pts.

 

[bbrown]

looking at the team finishing strong in 2019 with third consecutive NY6 game, this team felt to be on a very strong trend. Even in 2019 we had the Clifford injuries along with Noah Cain impacting the team. This felt to be a team on a positive trajectory. Going into 2020 season, we were rated by most pre-season prognosticators as a top 10 team. Then we started to get the COVID impacts with BIG cancel season and then back on. No spring practice, and the entire PSU practice regimen being impacted. Micah opts out, and Journey has career ending situation. We lose Noah Cain in first series at Indiana, so now only 2 FR backs and D Ford. We still outgain Indy by over 2x but lose game on a series of flukes and possibly a marginal ref call on the last play. The team has a hard time responding, and the schedule does not favor recovery. Then 2021 we get off to a strong start and Clifford goes down with no apparent backup. Team is unable to recover from his injury, and in the bowl game we lose the core of the team who did not play. Bottom line is we have two seasons that wound up at .500 together, but filled with a lot of unusual circumstances.

Do you think it is hard to judge the trajectory of the team using these two seasons? I have to say that I do not like some of the on field coaching decisions by the staff (i.e. 4th down attempts in your own territory early in games, playing injured starting QBs too long, low odds plays when we need a yard, etc), but in general the staff does seem to have the team going in a positive direction. In terms or recruiting, PSU seems to be ahead of the rest of the BIG other than tOSU. We also have drawn very tough schedules and whatever happened to opening with a couple teams we can beat no matter how bad we perform? With the high turnover of guys leaving for NFL (shows we are sending players to NFL), we need to be able to start season other than in a firestorm game day one.

 

[BrucePa]

It's really quite simple.

Remove the academic requirements, increase the payment for athletes, and make the facilities world-class, and Penn State will be on a par with Alabama and Ohio State. Don't do those things and Penn State will remain on a par with the annual #15 or #20 teams in the country.

 

[ZAK4]

looking at the team finishing strong in 2019 with third consecutive NY6 game, this team felt to be on a very strong trend. Even in 2019 we had the Clifford injuries along with Noah Cain impacting the team. This felt to be a team on a positive trajectory. Going into 2020 season, we were rated by most pre-season prognosticators as a top 10 team. Then we started to get the COVID impacts with BIG cancel season and then back on. No spring practice, and the entire PSU practice regimen being impacted. Micah opts out, and Journey has career ending situation. We lose Noah Cain in first series at Indiana, so now only 2 FR backs and D Ford. We still outgain Indy by over 2x but lose game on a series of flukes and possibly a marginal ref call on the last play. The team has a hard time responding, and the schedule does not favor recovery. Then 2021 we get off to a strong start and Clifford goes down with no apparent backup. Team is unable to recover from his injury, and in the bowl game we lose the core of the team who did not play. Bottom line is we have two seasons that wound up at .500 together, but filled with a lot of unusual circumstances.

Do you think it is hard to judge the trajectory of the team using these two seasons? I have to say that I do not like some of the on field coaching decisions by the staff (i.e. 4th down attempts in your own territory early in games, playing injured starting QBs too long, low odds plays when we need a yard, etc), but in general the staff does seem to have the team going in a positive direction. In terms or recruiting, PSU seems to be ahead of the rest of the BIG other than tOSU. We also have drawn very tough schedules and whatever happened to opening with a couple teams we can beat no matter how bad we perform? With the high turnover of guys leaving for NFL (shows we are sending players to NFL), we need to be able to start season other than in a firestorm game day one.

I quite honestly believe in this staff and team. 2019 was ascending. 2020 was so weird with everyone opting out or retiring for one reason or another. 2021 was going to be a good season aside from Sean getting hurt. Sean was playing the best football of his career without a solid blocking oline and no run game to take the pressure off. As for Franklin, I get it. I know the play calls sometimes are questionable, but these kids are buying in and coming to Penn State for a reason; THEY believe in him. If these guys can continue to believe in him there’s a reason.

 

[Bison13]

I'm curious about this way of thinking. We have two points of data here to compare in my view regarding Levis' ability:

Levis start vs. Rutgers (winless) in 2019: 8/14 81 yards, 1 TD, 4 sacks, 17 carries/136 yards
NOTES: This team had Parsons, Brown, Slade, a running game to speak of, and yet this was a one score game INTO the 4Q

Veilleux relief vs Rutgers (improved greatly) in 2021: 15/24 235 yards, 3 TDs 1 sack, 10 carries for 40 yards
NOTES: This team had no running game to speak of and Clifford was yanked due to illness, not injury, and postgame reports indicate much of the team had a flu bug running wild.

None of this is to defend Clifford. But I believe he was the clear choice over Levis as he is a much better passer. Levis, in his starts and appearances in 2020 did not do much to elevate himself or prove he was the guy and Clifford resumed his starting role. He clearly seems to be a runner first and doesn't appear to be the best choice in reading defenses.

Levis has moved on to UK and had a fine season, not superb, 24TD/13 INT is not a great season in my view. And looking at UK's schedule last year, they played two ranked teams in the vaunted SEC (UGa and Fla). More may have been ranked at the time of the game, but I didn't do a deep dive.

I get that the backup will always be beloved, but at the points in time where Levis was given the opportunity to shine at PSU, I didn't see it, and the stats don't seem to back it up. I wish him well at UK and the future, but I'm just not seeing this superstar that other fans see.

It could have been just a bad day but the one time I got to see them at practice Levis Was physically bigger and stronger and had a stronger arm than Clifford but he was not very accurate the day that I saw.

And in some of the game duty that he got when he would throw the ball would be on the line for every throw no touch.

 

[nittanyfan333]

It was a trifecta + of everything that could go wrong, going wrong.

+ 100000. i've said this more than a few times. To look at the last 2 years in a vaccuum of ANYTHING is way too miopic. There were just so many things that went wrong seemingly all at the same time.

 

[s1uggo72]

It's really quite simple.

Remove the academic requirements, increase the payment for athletes, and make the facilities world-class, and Penn State will be on a par with Alabama and Ohio State. Don't do those things and Penn State will remain on a par with the annual #15 or #20 teams in the country.

what academic requirements? they are the same as Alabama and OSU now.

 

[marshall23]

The 2020 season was a disaster caused by Parsons' selfishness. The 2021 season was much worse than it should have been because Clifford is not a good QB. He is a fine young man but has limited ability. Levis should have been the starting QB the last two seasons. Take away Parsons' selfishness and the mistake with Levis and we are gloating about the past 2 seasons having been stellar.

Ah.....the obsession with the path not taken......Why do coaches always make the wrong choice? I wish I had a dollar for every "mistake" I made in 38 years of HS sports. Best one was the father who declared that his son "might have been Babe Ruth" if we had just played him more.
Posters here cry all the time about QBs running too much.....WL's biggest asset.
I know it's painful, but perhaps coaches actually watched Levis and Clifford for years and decided that Clifford was better equipped to do the things they wanted
from a QB?

 

[BobPSU92]

Ah.....the obsession with the path not taken......Why do coaches always make the wrong choice? I wish I had a dollar for every "mistake" I made in 38 years of HS sports. Best one was the father who declared that his son "might have been Babe Ruth" if we had just played him more.
Posters here cry all the time about QBs running too much.....WL's biggest asset.
I know it's painful, but perhaps coaches actually watched Levis and Clifford for years and decided that Clifford was better equipped to do the things they wanted
from a QB?

Occam’s Razor:

”Levis is better, but let’s go with Clifford and let Levis transfer.”

 

[BrucePa]

what academic requirements? they are the same as Alabama and OSU now.

Not so sure I would agree with this....kids at Alabama and Georgia and LSU never set foot in a classroom....

 

[PrtLng Lion]

IMO, trajectory is "decent" at best unless CJF finds some solution for the running game and QB protection (OL needs a big improvement).

I'd also like to see more reasonable play calling in key situations (tons of examples, but other posters noted going for it on 4th in your own territory early in the game... I'll add not going to your All American receiver even once in 9 OT periods) but this is harder to quantify. Just seems there were way too many times when an obvious poor call was made.

And figure out how to not give up a battery of big plays late in games.

 

[Keyser Soze 16802]

It's hard to have faith in the trajectory under a coach that did not have a semi-competent back-up ready against Iowa

And that has squandered late game leads against Ohio State wearing his trademark deer-in-headlights face

 

[PSU12046]

IMO, trajectory is "decent" at best unless CJF finds some solution for the running game and QB protection (OL needs a big improvement).

I'd also like to see more reasonable play calling in key situations (tons of examples, but other posters noted going for it on 4th in your own territory early in the game... I'll add not going to your All American receiver even once in 9 OT periods) but this is harder to quantify. Just seems there were way too many times when an obvious poor call was made.

And figure out how to not give up a battery of big plays late in games.

How about we stop throwing fade patterns in the endzone to the shortest receiver on the field.

 

[BobPSU92]

How about we stop throwing fade patterns in the endzone to the shortest receiver on the field.

Now why would we do that? Stick with what got us there.

 

[TheBigUglies]

IMHO, the trajectory is flat. I think JF got lucky with Morehead and the athletes of Trace and Saquon and company. The past few years the overall play seems sloppy and undisciplined. Tackling seems to have become worse over the JF tenure. We all know about the in game coaching as well. These are all correctable with the recruiting classes coming in. However, if he keeps trying to run what appears to be a modification of the Morehead offense, the offense is going to still be not good, expect 3 and outs and defense getting tired because they are on the field too long. If he doesn't change up the offensive blocking schemes and get the offensive line clicking then we are going to remain a mediocre program. I never went back and reviewed but if the OLine blocked like they did in the Auburn game then I see the trajectory changing into an upward slope. Also, not to use a JoePA phrase from the past, I think we are one or two players away from being really good(maybe a QB and WR or RB)

 

[psu31trap]

I see a very good year for the Nittany Lions.

 

[BobPSU92]

I see a very good year for the Nittany Lions.

I don’t see three good years on Penn State’s schedule.

 

[91Joe95]

I can't believe Franklin has been here 10 years. I consider last year to be his first truly bad season. Good coach who does a lot of things right, but the offensive scheme with regards to shotgun only and the way they run the ball continues to vex me. I have a few other concerns but they are pretty minor. I don't think they will be nearly as bad as they were at the end of the year, but them underperforming still wouldn't surprise me. There is talent on the team.

 

[psu31trap]

I don’t see three good years on Penn State’s schedule.

The team will be undefeated going into the Michigan game. A solid win on 10/15 and they have a real shot on 10/29.

 

[Nitt1300]

 

[MacNit]

Parsons made the right call. Given the pandemic and having a young child, he needed to protect his future stream of earnings. If he was out partying around or in large settings, I understand your comments more. But if he was cautious and not taking risks, then I will bet that Franklin and every one of his teammates supported his decision fully. Enough about that.

If you get twisted about that, buckle up for the new normal. Portal, players not playing in bowl games unless it’s the playoffs, etc. A kid like Parsons now needs to be recruited every year. First to get him, next to keep him. 5 years from now, the game and structure we know won’t be recognizable. A kid just opting out in a pandemic will seem saintly.

Buckle up as College football is on a crash and burn trajectory…with a steep arc.

 

[psu1]

Agree with the above post I will add that I think they need to find some more mental toughness and leader ship from within the ranks. Guys like Michael Robinson and Poz and Marcus Allen and trace more recently were so mentally tough and great leaders, others followed them and their attitudes rubbed off on the team.

I don’t think Clifford is that type of leader and brisker was kind of like those old guys but need more

you want leaders and toughness.......then we need guys like mike reid and matt millen