How should the SEC regulate the “fake injuries “?
- Thread starter blackjackdog3
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That's the answer. It's a damn shame that it would have to come to that, but it looks like it has.
One other possible answer, if it's a non contact injury inside the red zone make the defense play with 10 men for the rest of the series.
I know this will go over like a turd in a punch bowl, and I get that. But maybe some of you who are reasonable about it will understand.. do you really think a fake injury (and yes they’re fake, I’ll admit it) here and there provides a competitive advantage beyond 25K people ringing cowbells when the offense is over the ball in a crucial spot?
Im not really defending Ole Miss, I wish we didn’t do it, honestly. But you can’t just completely dismiss the complaints the other way. Or maybe you can, at the end of the day it is your board and I try to be respectful of that. I’m just saying there’s a certain amount of rivalry pettiness in both viewpoints.
Im not really defending Ole Miss, I wish we didn’t do it, honestly. But you can’t just completely dismiss the complaints the other way. Or maybe you can, at the end of the day it is your board and I try to be respectful of that. I’m just saying there’s a certain amount of rivalry pettiness in both viewpoints.
It was the turning point of the Egg Bowl this year. Good grief it doesn't take a genius to see that. Even me and the announcers for the game picked it up. Now I will say this, it is absolutely in character for your football team and you so-called university. Honor and truthfulness means nothing to y'all.
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My point is, a key false start on a 3rd down because they can’t hear the snap count that results in a stalled drive.. or a missed audible because of the noise.. that swings games, too. That doesn’t matter?
Say what you want, but just watch the replay and listen on key downs when Ole Miss is over the ball. It’s pretty apparent.
If that causes an inopportune circumstance, and your opponent can’t overcome it, whose fault is it?
Now that you’ve answered that, who’s fault is it you dropped 3 straight passes?
This isn’t rivalry pettiness at all. It’s clear that this is a big part of Ole Miss strategy to get a blow for a defense that’s still not exactly a world beater and to hide some deficiency in depth. It might be rivalry pettiness if it only happened in this particular game.
And, you bet your *** it helps. Why would the ole miss coaching staff have them do it if it wasn’t for competitive advantage? A lot of football is about momentum and they use that to slow momentum. It’s an extra timeout, the whole team ran over to the sideline and huddled. If they want a blow and to talk strategy, the coaches should call time out. It really is nothing but cheating using concern for player safety in a perverted way. (By the way, I’d expect Durkin to not really be that concerned with player safety based on his history - so there’s that.)
And, you bet your *** it helps. Why would the ole miss coaching staff have them do it if it wasn’t for competitive advantage? A lot of football is about momentum and they use that to slow momentum. It’s an extra timeout, the whole team ran over to the sideline and huddled. If they want a blow and to talk strategy, the coaches should call time out. It really is nothing but cheating using concern for player safety in a perverted way. (By the way, I’d expect Durkin to not really be that concerned with player safety based on his history - so there’s that.)
Correct me if I’m wrong but the rules allow the officials to address one of the two. Also, one is spectators. The other is competitors in the actual game.
It has nothing to do with the rivalry. Fake injuries have happened all season.
In tight games or tense moments, the bell ringing happens a little into the time that the center is over the ball.
Your rationale that it’s ok for a team to play in the gray area of the rule book that is completely unsportsmanlike vs fans making noise which if found to violate the rule can draw an unsportsmanlike penalty against the team is a valid example of why the UMiss fan base is disliked.
And fyi, you are defending the fake injuries.
No, I’m not sayin that at all. I’m asking you why it’s ok for the fans to do that, then dismiss any potential outcomes, but then be outraged about the other? It’s almost like we just get mad when things aren’t in our favor.
Also, you and I both know that Ole Miss fans aren’t the only ones who’ve said things about cowbells. You just see it more from Ole Miss fans because you live in the same state with them, and they’re your rival.
If the bells are ringing at the wrong time, the refs can throw a 15 yard penalty on State. That’s the part where I am asking to be corrected if wrong.
Nothing can be done about the fake injuries until the off-season when all of the schools gather to discuss things.
Do you not understand the difference?
I guess the same reason you’d continue to insist on using an artificial noisemaker when your opponent is over the ball?? We can go back and forth all day, and I know I’ll lose here, so I’ll stop. I’m just trying to point out the hypocrisy in all of us as fans.
Thing ABC Benefits My Team = GOOD
Thing XYZ Hurts My Team = BAD
On the cowbells, complaining about thay is rivalry pettiness. Maybe last night was different, but in general the vast vast majority quit ringing when the qb is over the ball. It’s just crowd noise. We can scream and holler too and get loud that way.
I’ve been to vaught before and seen a row of permanently affixed speakers that amp up crowd noise in an artificial manner. What’s the difference? (Now it’s been a few years since I’ve seen and heard that. Maybe they aren’t there any more.) the bells really are something that is just annoying to opponents as opposed to really impacting the game.
I’ve been to vaught before and seen a row of permanently affixed speakers that amp up crowd noise in an artificial manner. What’s the difference? (Now it’s been a few years since I’ve seen and heard that. Maybe they aren’t there any more.) the bells really are something that is just annoying to opponents as opposed to really impacting the game.
But you won the damn game so obviously it didn't do squat for us. We were the favorite to win the game. On the other hand your borderline cheating and undisputed poor sportsmanship was THE turning point in the game that enabled the underdog to win. What your players did and you obviously have no problem with goes against all notions of proper sportsmanship. It actually epitomizes "Ole Miss". That y'all still use that name says absolutely everything about you. It really does. By the way, the announcers said it was your fainting goats disrupting the flow of the game was why we dropped the passes.
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Fans are fanatics, and they did not have good bell-discipline the other night, and we'll probably get some consequence as a result.
Coaches are the face of the team, and should promote sportsmanship, and his athletes should show it as well. Kiffin tells his players to fall down on the field and grab a calf when he wants to disrupt the rhythm of an offense. Do you really want to defend that? He's gonna cost himself a better job for that kind of crap, and Ole Miss as a program is now known for flopping. We give IB hell on here plenty, but I'm pretty sure if Leach had players flopping all over the field because the defense couldn't stop an offense the traditional way, Cohen would stop that cold. Nobody wants to be known for that, at least almost no one. Next year we'll have the Ole Miss rule, (because that's all we need is one more player behavior sportsmanship rule). Kiffin won't give a ****, and that should probably give you pause.
Coaches are the face of the team, and should promote sportsmanship, and his athletes should show it as well. Kiffin tells his players to fall down on the field and grab a calf when he wants to disrupt the rhythm of an offense. Do you really want to defend that? He's gonna cost himself a better job for that kind of crap, and Ole Miss as a program is now known for flopping. We give IB hell on here plenty, but I'm pretty sure if Leach had players flopping all over the field because the defense couldn't stop an offense the traditional way, Cohen would stop that cold. Nobody wants to be known for that, at least almost no one. Next year we'll have the Ole Miss rule, (because that's all we need is one more player behavior sportsmanship rule). Kiffin won't give a ****, and that should probably give you pause.
This complaining about the bells is ridiculous. All teams have things they do to communicate when there is crowd noise. A bell has never made a tackle or never defended a pass.
And face it, ole miss would complain if it heard one single bell in the stadium. 100% compliance is impossible. Ole miss has a dang swat team in Oxford and people can still get bells in.
The faking and bells are not similar in any respect. Just like a false start and a head hunting targeting over the middle are both against the rules, one is a fairly minor penalty and the other comes with 15 yards and ejection from the game and some of the next game possibly.
And face it, ole miss would complain if it heard one single bell in the stadium. 100% compliance is impossible. Ole miss has a dang swat team in Oxford and people can still get bells in.
The faking and bells are not similar in any respect. Just like a false start and a head hunting targeting over the middle are both against the rules, one is a fairly minor penalty and the other comes with 15 yards and ejection from the game and some of the next game possibly.
It boils down to this, y'all can't win straight up in anything. You have to bend or break the rules to do it.
Let's see... loud cowbells (which they can flag us at any time if they feel it is really changing the game) versus falsely stopping/delaying the play of the game?
Delaying the game? Isn't that actually a penalty as well?
He runs hurry up on offense then stops play when he's getting smoked on defense without calling time out?
He's clever for doing this without getting caught but I think the league office will adjust and then what will Freshwater do to try to bend the rules?
Delaying the game? Isn't that actually a penalty as well?
He runs hurry up on offense then stops play when he's getting smoked on defense without calling time out?
He's clever for doing this without getting caught but I think the league office will adjust and then what will Freshwater do to try to bend the rules?
Let me attempt to reply in a manner that you might understand.
Fans were only ringing the bells while UMiss center was over the ball because UMiss runs uptempo on offense and it was too fast for the reflexes of all the bellringers’ arms to stop ringing.
It’s all your fault!
This is the key. Being able to get to the line of scrimmage and falling down after the ball is set is a clear indicator of a fake injury. This penalty would allow for stoppage in case someone really happened to be injured. It’d just be a bad break for the team if it was a real injury. A timeout lost would stop this stuff cause that’s what they are really trying to avoid - calling a time out.
More like things that are apples: Apples
Thinks that are oranges: Not Apples
One is a tradition dating back many decades. The other is your garbage staff and players abusing the rules for an advantage. Some of your brethren who post from time to time at least had the decency to be funny or insightful on occasion. Your next funny or insightful post will be your first.
Disagree. If it really is a legit injury, then missing the rest of the series, quarter, or even half is no big deal. If its a ******** fake injury, that is a problem for the player and the team to miss a ton of playing time. If its a real injury but a minor one, they can come off on their own power and get subbed out between plays. Or, they can stay down and miss time.
I say sit for the rest of the half if play has to be stopped for you to come out. Coach can prevent this by using a timeout to keep you in the game initially, or buy you back in later. If coach has no timeouts, they can take a “defensive delay of game” penalty of 5 yards to let the player back in, but they must burn the timeout first if they have any to use. Exceptions are made for any injuries caused by penalty on the other team (chop block, targeting, hand to the face, etc.).
Yep this is the ******** part of it orchestrated by the coaching staff. So the douchebag DL waits until the offense is lined up then falls down in pain. D sees what O is planning and then gets unlimited time outs to adjust. This is the scenario that must be regulated. The POS DL is out for the rest of the half and the team loses a TO or 15 yard penalty
The noisemakers should stop when the opponent is over the ball. That’s already the rule and the team cannot control it. The Ole Miss Rebels cowardly abusing a player safety rule is one hundred percent controlled by Lane Kiffin and there needs to be a rule to prevent him and other cowards from abusing that mechanic.
Now I think this is a great rule that prevents a lot of the “fake” injuries. If they wait until they’re over the ball and fall down, it should cost the team something. Similar to how in the NFL if a player gets hurt inside of I believe 2 minutes, they’re charged a timeout or 15 second runoff (if offensive player). And as bad as I hate to give officials anymore discretion, maybe they should have some in these situations?
I do understand the difference. But you and I both know they aren’t going to throw the flag, which is why fans have gotten more brazen with ringing them with the opponent over the ball. Go rewatch the game and just listen in big moments, it’s comically bad. And I will say, I’ve been impressed historically with how well y’all have “rang responsibly”, but it got pretty bad Thursday night. I’m not outraged, I get it, I’d probably do it too, knowing there’ll be no consequence.
But you’re all outraged over a fake injury because it preceded 3 really bad plays in a row for you. If Marks catches either pass, you aren’t nearly as upset. We are fans, short for fanatics. How is faking an injury knowing there’s no consequence different than gaining an advantage by knowing there’s no consequence? And if you want to play the moral outrage card of the integrity of the coaching profession or whatever, fine, but spare me. There’s not a huge moral compass for coaching SEC football. Landing players like Jaheim Oatis will require some shady ****, but both fanbases will be clamoring to land him. But again, that thing benefits our respective team, so we justify it.
Also, y’all are giving Kiffin way too much credit for pioneering these fake injuries. This crap has been going on for years, including against Ole Miss because of the tempo. But you just remember it and see it more because it’s Ole Miss. But there’s countless other examples of major programs doing it, and it being laughably bad. Doesn’t make it not embarrassing, but he didn’t come up with this all on his own, just like he didn’t use Jedi mind tricks to make you drop 3 straight passes.
Sounds like your players are easily distracted then. Better work on that, because if that’s all it takes you’re about to see a lot more of it.
So if we just continue to do it for 30 years while no one else does it, then we can just say “hey, it’s a tradition! Tough titty that it has potential real impact on your play! Overcome it!” ? Works for me.
I agree with you 100%, with the one minor exception being that this happens in multiple games across the country every week. It needs to be addressed though, no doubt.
So what would that say about schools that have been penalized just as often, if not more, by the NCAA? They’d be pretty dirty, right?
I’m not outraged. I’m just commenting on a comparison you made between an act done by players versus something fans do that can be penalized and has been at least once in the past.
Yes, the fake injuries have happened before by several other schools. My take on it hasn’t changed. It’s ridiculous.
Get this…
You are the only person here who sees the bell issue your way.
Everybody here, including you, sees the fake injury issue as unsportsmanlike.
Use your rational mind that you normally have in commenting on this board and stop acting like a typical UMiss fan. If you do that, you will understand. I promise.
If you agree 100%, why in the hell have you made such a stupid *** false equivalency argument about bells throughout this thread? The thread is about coaching staffs using a current rule in an unethical manner to cheat and how to alter the rule to prevent cheating. Yet here you are arguing about FANS breaking a rule that works if the refs just throw the flag. Get back to me when our coaching staff has grad assistants hold up a big cowbell sign to the fans to ring irresponsibly.
No, I do understand, truly I do. I even stated in my original post that I knew it wouldn’t go over well. My intention was never to convince you that the injuries were ok, or that cowbells are bad. It was just to point out that you see the injuries through the same lense as other fans see the cowbells. If this exact conversation was had on an Ole Miss message board, it would be cowbells = bad; fake injuries = ok. I 100% understand that.
I just thought a few of you might entertain the conversation in a rational way, and you have. And some of you have even admitted that yes, the bells shouldn’t ring when teams are over the ball. Just like I admit I don’t like the fake injuries. But at the moment, under the current circumstances it’s something that’s got to be overcome as an opponent, fair or not.
The ONLY defense towards Ole Miss I’ve given is they didn’t create this strategy. I’d argue they just aren’t very good at it, and it’s laughably bad, at times, which of course draws more attention to it. And the fact that it preceded 4 straight really bad plays by MSU, makes it stick in your craw more. But even if you’d scored the TD, it needs addressed, I won’t deny that.
Why do you presume to say that not executing after the obviously faked injury is what sticks in our craw? That’s not at all why it sticks in my craw. And, I don’t think that’s the case with everybody or almost everybody here.
When it happened the stadium erupted, probably as loud as any part of the night (without bells I might add). They didn’t have any idea what was to come at the time. But they sure as hell were pissed about it because it just goes to being unsportsmanlike. He could get the same effect by simply calling time out.
What sticks in the craw is that it’s a clearly premeditated strategy carried out in previous games over and over to stretch the rules. The rules do not contemplate that players will fake injuries. It’s a perversion of taking advantage of concern for player safety.
Your point about Kiffin not inventing it is just incredibly stupid. He uses it. And beyond just using it, it’s part of the tool chest of things he uses to make up for having below average personnel. It’s his choice to do it over and over.
When it happened the stadium erupted, probably as loud as any part of the night (without bells I might add). They didn’t have any idea what was to come at the time. But they sure as hell were pissed about it because it just goes to being unsportsmanlike. He could get the same effect by simply calling time out.
What sticks in the craw is that it’s a clearly premeditated strategy carried out in previous games over and over to stretch the rules. The rules do not contemplate that players will fake injuries. It’s a perversion of taking advantage of concern for player safety.
Your point about Kiffin not inventing it is just incredibly stupid. He uses it. And beyond just using it, it’s part of the tool chest of things he uses to make up for having below average personnel. It’s his choice to do it over and over.
You aren’t gonna have a lot of “throwaway” players on the field at critical points of the game are you?
Unless there is an on-field noise study to prove me wrong, I'm not convinced that bells are louder on field (in decibels) than most other SEC stadiums. For there to be a competitive advantage, we would have to be louder than LSU, Auburn, Florida, Tennessee, UGA, etc. Everyone gets loud and blasts music pre-snap.
If one team routinely fakes injuries to get extra timeouts, and no one else does, that is absolutely a competitive advantage.
If one team routinely fakes injuries to get extra timeouts, and no one else does, that is absolutely a competitive advantage.
This thread was about rules that can be implemented and the Rebel came in comparing their frustration with the bells and our frustration with the cowardly flops his team has pulled all year. It was a pointless comparison because there is already an existing rule to deal with the bell and his team can file a complaint based upon that. The Rebels’ opponents have no recourse for their cowardly and unsportsmanlike conduct and that needs to change. Not only for them but for anyone else who chooses to play in this unsportsmanlike manner.
You are not pointing out a hypocrisy. You are changing the subject. These are two different topics.
The NCAA used to have rules about excessive crowd noise. If the QB could not communicate to his team, the refs would stop play and warn the crowd. If the excessive noise continued, the refs could issue penalties.
As crowds got larger and louder, the refs had a problem enforcing the rule. It was abolished. NCAA no longer cares if noise affects play. The SEC had a rule assessing penalties for noisemakers, and the NCAA said the SEC cannot change the rules of the game.
So using cowbells is no longer an in game penalty. The SEC can fine the school, but the decision has been made that excessive noise disrupting the game is fine. The cowbells are treated the same as if band or PA music continued to play while the center was over the ball.
I expect the school to be warned or even fined for the cowbell use on Thursday night. But if we can "ring responsibly" then you have no valid complaint.
Now let's turn to the fake injuries. This is not a rivalry issue. This is an ongoing issue in the sport that some people think was a factor Thursday night. It is currently legal. People are just discussing ways the NCAA could address the issue (and it has to be the NCAA, not the SEC).
One can easily defend the ringing of cowbells while also seeking a rules change for injury timeouts. It is not hypocritical. The rules apply to everyone, and State has utilized the fake injury in the past. Its just a topic today because it was used against our team in the last game.
And, yes, the cowbell exception is unique to our stadium, but the institutional noise rules apply to every school.
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