How will MSU athletics be impacted by recent Supreme Court ruling....

[DoggieDaddy13]

ending affirmative action?

Looking for reasonable discussion. You can be biased based on your political leanings.... just try not to be an A$$4ole about it. Could end up helping state schools like ours from what I'm reading in terms of quality minority athletes and students.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

TLDR - Not affected at all.

Cue golfer or PDH for the smoking keyboard responses.

 

[coach66]

Does this impact the Ayers case?

 

[patdog]

TLDR - Not affected at all.

This is the right answer. It might impact the university. But it won't impact athletics.

 

[LordMcBuckethead]

No idea how it would impact athletics at all.
I wouldn't imagine that would impact MSU overall in the very least. Places like Harvard and Yale, sure.
I am as liberal as it comes, but to me college admission should be based purely on achievement. The admission requirements should be clearly stated by each university, if you qualify you are in. If you don't, you are not in. Let the chips fall where they may.

Race, Religion, gender, and for that matter names should not even be used during the admission process. Just remove all that bias on the front end.

Best qualified potential students get in, nothing else matters.

Now if you want to give a certain number of spot to under-privilaged students, you need to do it across the board. Race shouldn't factor. Maybe socio/economic.

 

[Dawgg]

Mississippi State isn't exactly turning people away at the door (we just had a whole thread a few weeks ago about this), so I don't see it affecting the university whatsoever.

State's student body make up isn't due to admission standards. It's due to Mississippi's demographics.

 

[TXDawg.sixpack]

Shouldn't affect State and almost certainly won't affect athletics at any university.

 

[Darryl Steight]

No idea how it would impact athletics at all.
I wouldn't imagine that would impact MSU overall in the very least. Places like Harvard and Yale, sure.
I am as liberal as it comes, but to me college admission should be based purely on achievement. The admission requirements should be clearly stated by each university, if you qualify you are in. If you don't, you are not in. Let the chips fall where they may.

Race, Religion, gender, and for that matter names should not even be used during the admission process. Just remove all that bias on the front end.

Best qualified potential students get in, nothing else matters.

Now if you want to give a certain number of spot to under-privilaged students, you need to do it across the board. Race shouldn't factor. Maybe socio/economic.

I 100% totally and unequivocally agree with this, as any sane and rational person should. I'd add that I apply that same logic when it comes to certification of commercial airline pilots too. Give me the most qualified person - I don't care what race, creed, religion, "gender" they are. Just land the plane safely, please and thank you.

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

It am reading arguments that a number of higher quality institutions - not just private institutions - have used athletes with higher academic qualifications to help meet their overall affirmative action quotas.
Could be that we end up with the sprinter/tennis player/cornerback who was able to get into Dartmouth or Stanford under affirmative action quotas that they no longer need going forward.

 

[Duke Humphrey]

This only affects a handful of universities (Ivy, UNC, UVA, etc), this will not affect MSU

 

[WilCoDawg]

No idea how it would impact athletics at all.
I wouldn't imagine that would impact MSU overall in the very least. Places like Harvard and Yale, sure.
I am as liberal as it comes, but to me college admission should be based purely on achievement. The admission requirements should be clearly stated by each university, if you qualify you are in. If you don't, you are not in. Let the chips fall where they may.

Race, Religion, gender, and for that matter names should not even be used during the admission process. Just remove all that bias on the front end.

Best qualified potential students get in, nothing else matters.

Now if you want to give a certain number of spot to under-privilaged students, you need to do it across the board. Race shouldn't factor. Maybe socio/economic.

Maybe you aren’t as liberal as you think!

Welcome to the dark right side.***

 

[WrightGuy821]

It am reading arguments that a number of higher quality institutions - not just private institutions - have used athletes with higher academic qualifications to help meet their overall affirmative action quotas.
Could be that we end up with the sprinter/tennis player/cornerback who was able to get into Dartmouth or Stanford under affirmative action quotas that they no longer need going forward.

I don't know that State wants Sprinter/Tennis Player/Cornerbacks that would be going to Dartmouth or Stanford. Seems like they're not focused enough on Sports lol

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Bracky: We're going to have to start signing Asian kids for athletics now aren't we?

 

[T-TownDawgg]

Maybe you aren’t as liberal as you think!

Welcome to the dark right side.***

The problem for those like Lord and many others, if they don’t fall in line with the march of the party, they are considered toxic. The other side that’s always “right” does the same thing.
I’ll go a step farther. Demographic quotas everywhere, especially in the workplace, should be abolished, too, for the same reasons already mentioned. Everything should be merit based. In a strained labor market like this one, an idiot employer who passes up qualified help solely because of race won’t last long any way.

 

[ckDOG]

No issues with taking out assessments based solely or mostly on race.

If a college wants to ensure that minorities are represented in their student body in similar proportions to society in general, but for whatever reason they aren't, I would view it admirable for them to use their endowment to recruit and develop additional minority applicants who can meet their entrance standards rather than baking in a +1/-1 metric based on the color of anyone's skin.

 

[johnson86-1]

No issues with taking out assessments based solely or mostly on race.

If a college wants to ensure that minorities are represented in their student body in similar proportions to society in general, but for whatever reason they aren't, I would view it admirable for them to use their endowment to recruit and develop additional minority applicants who can meet their entrance standards rather than baking in a +1/-1 metric based on the color of anyone's skin.

You think NIL is out of control, wait until you see Harvard, Yale, and Princeton start trying to outbid each other on non-asian minorities that have GPA and test scores that make them competitive for ivy league admission.**

The only impact this might have in Mississippi is on competitive professional and grad schools. Assuming the ruling is eventually complied with, they should be able to attract better qualified minority candidates as they won't have more prestigious schools lowering their entrance requirements as much to hit a de facto quota.

That said, many selective schools have seen this coming and have preemptively announced that they will make SAT/ACT or GRE no required to make it easier to hide discrimination against asian students. You're going to see selective schools stop racially discriminating "with all deliberate speed."

 

[LordMcBuckethead]

Maybe you aren’t as liberal as you think!

Welcome to the dark right side.***

Unfortunately, liberal gets a bad wrap with all the hand out stuff. Generally, I believe that as humans we should help as many people be the best that they can be, regardless of government programs, taxes, or local charity work. But when the requirements to get into college are based on performance, then it should be based on performance.

As far as my government, I love the New Deal and what it has done to our country. I fully support an all of the above approach to energy with a focus in investing in renewables. I fully support Social Security, but I do not like Social Security funds being used for other things which is its issue. Social security is not the issue, it is raiding its funds for other stuff. I support welfare programs, but I support them with tapered benefits not to trap people to low income jobs. I do support a more even distributed marginal tax rate that extends beyond 37% top rate to 55%, but the top end would be higher to get to that limit and all the steps below them would be equal. I also believe, people should never get more money back in taxes than they ever paid in. Everyone should have some skin in the game. I do not believe that inheritance taxes are fair. I do not believe in taxing wealth

I fully support our military, but I also feel like that support should be above and beyond for their lifetime, especially those that served in active situations. That includes taking care of them for life. I would do away with the VA and put them in a private insurance situation that allows them to go to any doctor, anywhere, at anytime. I am for competition on drug prices for medicare/medicaid. No prescription drug should be sold in another country cheaper than the US, ever.

I do support a single payer healthcare system, because I see that as a basic right of all citizens to have healthcare and for that healthcare not to bankrupt you and your family when it happens. Not a fan of health insurance companies and I am not a fan of employer provided health insurance either. I know this would cost a **** ton of money, but right now we are already spending a **** ton of money for terrible coverage.

I hated bud light before they spit in everyone's face /s.

Biden is old, but even then he is better than the alternatives except for Whitmer. Give me Chris Christie if it has to be a republican, or Mitt Romney.

 

[GloryDawg]

The only schools in Mississippi that it will affect are the private college. It had no bearing on public colleges.

 

[LordMcBuckethead]

Oh yeah, I hate "Gotcha" WWE style politics. That includes smack down type headlines about politics.

 

[LordMcBuckethead]

Only thing I would add, I hate how our state is almost always Republican led by guys that don't have the balls to defy the bigtime national Republicans when it would benefit Mississippi.

 

[WrapItDog]

All the good Asian athletes in MS will have more options and will chose an Ivy League school over State**

 

[Shmuley]

All the good Asian athletes in MS will have more options and will chose an Ivy League school over State**

We didn't want them anyway.

 

[Darryl Steight]

Maybe you aren’t as liberal as you think!

Welcome to the dark right side.***

"Education is not typically one big 'aha' moment, but more often a series of small enlightenments along the path to greater things."

-- Some smart guy said that.

 

[WilCoDawg]

Unfortunately, liberal gets a bad wrap with all the hand out stuff. Generally, I believe that as humans we should help as many people be the best that they can be, regardless of government programs, taxes, or local charity work. But when the requirements to get into college are based on performance, then it should be based on performance.

As far as my government, I love the New Deal and what it has done to our country. I fully support an all of the above approach to energy with a focus in investing in renewables. I fully support Social Security, but I do not like Social Security funds being used for other things which is its issue. Social security is not the issue, it is raiding its funds for other stuff. I support welfare programs, but I support them with tapered benefits not to trap people to low income jobs. I do support a more even distributed marginal tax rate that extends beyond 37% top rate to 55%, but the top end would be higher to get to that limit and all the steps below them would be equal. I also believe, people should never get more money back in taxes than they ever paid in. Everyone should have some skin in the game. I do not believe that inheritance taxes are fair. I do not believe in taxing wealth

I fully support our military, but I also feel like that support should be above and beyond for their lifetime, especially those that served in active situations. That includes taking care of them for life. I would do away with the VA and put them in a private insurance situation that allows them to go to any doctor, anywhere, at anytime. I am for competition on drug prices for medicare/medicaid. No prescription drug should be sold in another country cheaper than the US, ever.

I do support a single payer healthcare system, because I see that as a basic right of all citizens to have healthcare and for that healthcare not to bankrupt you and your family when it happens. Not a fan of health insurance companies and I am not a fan of employer provided health insurance either. I know this would cost a **** ton of money, but right now we are already spending a **** ton of money for terrible coverage.

I hated bud light before they spit in everyone's face /s.

Biden is old, but even then he is better than the alternatives except for Whitmer. Give me Chris Christie if it has to be a republican, or Mitt Romney.

The more you type, the more trouble you’re going to get yourself into, pal.***

I think we all want the same the same ultimate goal, but we seem to have different opinions on how to get there. Most of what you posted, I’m in agreement with.

 

[OopsICroomedmypants]

Maybe you aren’t as liberal as you think!

Welcome to the dark right side.***

Maybe he’s a true liberal. Small government, stay out of my business and I’ll stay out of yours. Low taxes and freedom at every turn. The founding fathers agree. Today’s liberals may not. Let’s all be friends.

 

[Dawgzilla2]

This only affects a handful of universities (Ivy, UNC, UVA, etc), this will not affect MSU

It's going to affect almost any school with limited enrollment. Small schools, whether public or private, who have to reject a decent percentage of their applicants could be affected.

Just about every reputable school in Georgia, too. The HOPE and Zell Miller scholarships have made applications soar so the good schools turn down a lot of students. Getting accepted to UGA is tough.

 

[Dawgzilla2]

State's student body make up isn't due to admission standards. It's due to Mississippi's demographics.

I'm not arguing with you, just don't understand what you mean here. The State AA population is around 37%, while MSU's student body is still only about 17%. (It was half that when I was in school 40 years ago).

Still, we don't turn away many qualified applicants, so I can't see race really being a factor in admissions these days.

 

[GloryDawg]

I'm not arguing with you, just don't understand what you mean here. The State AA population is around 37%, while MSU's student body is still only about 17%. (It was half that when I was in school 40 years ago).

Still, we don't turn away many qualified applicants, so I can't see race really being a factor in admissions these days.

We also have to consider that there are three traditional black universities that take in a lot of those black students keeping them out of MSU, USM and Mississippi. They don't want to go to school at the big three. They could if they wanted. They just grew up pulling for those schools or their parent went there. Not much different than us whites at the big three.

 

[Raiderdawg]

This will have little or no impact on us.

Schools with a mission to provide access and opportunities across the state’s diverse population (like MSU) will see almost no change.

I worked in the UNC system. Chapel Hill prided itself in selectivity & pushed many qualified students to other state schools. Now they have to use some other criteria to picked students.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

I worked in the UNC system. Chapel Hill prided itself in selectivity & pushed many qualified students to other state schools. Now they have to use some other criteria to picked students.

Likely they'd do a variation of Texas's Top 10 percent plan. And of course there's already an article about that.

With race-based admissions no longer an option, states may imitate Texas Top 10% Plan

Now that the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled the practice unconstitutional, admissions experts say other states could look to Texas’ Top 10% Plan as a way to diversify their student bodies.

www.texastribune.org

 

[Dawgg]

I'm not arguing with you, just don't understand what you mean here. The State AA population is around 37%, while MSU's student body is still only about 17%. (It was half that when I was in school 40 years ago).

Still, we don't turn away many qualified applicants, so I can't see race really being a factor in admissions these days.

17% is still either the highest or one of the highest in the SEC. The point I was making is that it’s that high because a high percentage of Mississippi’s population is African American, not because State is putting those students in over white kids.

As Glorydawg alluded to, there are other reasons outside admissions, like HBCUs, to explain the gap in the State of Mississippi’s AA population and Mississippi State’s AA population.

 

[SouthFarmchicken]

ending affirmative action?

Looking for reasonable discussion. You can be biased based on your political leanings.... just try not to be an A$$4ole about it. Could end up helping state schools like ours from what I'm reading in terms of quality minority athletes and students.

I’m a libertarian and disagree with the decision for a private university. Harvard should be able to admit whoever they want for whatever reason as long as they aren’t receiving federal or state funding.

Let me add, yes I believe a private university/business/whatever should be able to exclude or specifically include any protected class or group of people they want from serving as long as no federal/state funding. That would have meant no COVID money/PPP loans.

And yes, I realize this allows people to be racist ********. Let the market decide. They won’t last long.

 

[Dawgzilla2]

I’m a libertarian and disagree with the decision for a private university. Harvard should be able to admit whoever they want for whatever reason as long as they aren’t receiving federal or state funding.

You're "unless" is the rub. Harvard receives enormous amounts of federal funds for research and student financial aid and probably other things. Thus, Harvard is subject to the Civil Rights Act.

 

[johnson86-1]

This only affects a handful of universities (Ivy, UNC, UVA, etc), this will not affect MSU

Assuming the law is actually complied with (which I'm skeptical; elite universities like discriminating against Asians even more than they used to like discriminating against jewish people), it will affect more than a handful of universities. Pretty much every university that is selective at all lowers admission standards in an attempt to get more students that can check either a african american, non-white hispanic, or american indian box. Even the schools that aren't particularly selective and/or don't have a strong affirmative action preference in admissions will still see the GPA and standardized test scores of admitted minorities go up b/c they won't be competing with more prestigious schools for which the applicants would not be qualififed outside of a race based boost on their admission.

That effect won't make it all the way to MSU or Ole Miss undergrad, but UM Law and UMMC should see an impact.

 

[Duke Humphrey]

The discrimination against Asians at Harvard is the case that led to this decision from SCOTUS.

However, Thomas said in his opinion they have a right to admit on socioeconomic status and other hardships, just not race. So yes, they will look for ways to skirt the decision in an attempt for racial diversity.

 

[Boom Boom]

The discrimination against Asians at Harvard is the case that led to this decision from SCOTUS.

However, Thomas said in his opinion they have a right to admit on socioeconomic status and other hardships, just not race. So yes, they will look for ways to skirt the decision in an attempt for racial diversity.

I know this is an article of faith on the right. But it's probably not true.

Selective Bias: Asian Americans, Test Scores, and Holistic Admissions - CEW Georgetown

There’s no strong evidence of discrimination against Asian American applicants in admissions to highly selective colleges.

cew.georgetown.edu

 

[mstateglfr]

No idea how it would impact athletics at all.
I wouldn't imagine that would impact MSU overall in the very least. Places like Harvard and Yale, sure.
I am as liberal as it comes, but to me college admission should be based purely on achievement. The admission requirements should be clearly stated by each university, if you qualify you are in. If you don't, you are not in. Let the chips fall where they may.

Race, Religion, gender, and for that matter names should not even be used during the admission process. Just remove all that bias on the front end.

Best qualified potential students get in, nothing else matters.

Now if you want to give a certain number of spot to under-privilaged students, you need to do it across the board. Race shouldn't factor. Maybe socio/economic.

Your admissions policy is certainly the ideal. In an ideal world, where bias didnt exist(race bias, financial bias, donor bias, alum bias, etc), your suggested admissions policy would rock.

A big issue with your suggested policy is that many of these universities cant admit everyone that qualifies. Northwestern received over 52,000 applications last year. The class size is only 2,100. That doesnt mean only 2,100 met the admissions standards. And that doesnt even mean the top 2,100 were admitted.
When you have 6,000 students all with a 4.0 or higher, all with a 33 ACT or higher, and all with extracurriculars and National Merit Finalist claims- who is denied admissions?
You could even increase ACT to 34 if you really think that makes someone more qualified and you would still have a group that is larger than the admitted size(3600) which leads to the 2100 class size.

University of Chicago is in the same boat, along with countless other nationally elite universities and colleges, in addition to countless small elite private colleges. University of Chicago had more applicants with over 4.0 and 34 ACT than they had spots for this past year's incoming class.

Heck UC Berkeley had almost 130,000 applicants. They cant possibly have clear set admissions standards and then accept all who meet/exceed said standards. There is literally no room for the university to expand- its a long standing issue with the town.


To be very clear, I am not saying race based admissions are right or the best or should continue. I am only saying it is not anywhere close to as simple as 'admit those who qualify'.
I used Northwestern and University of Chicago because one of my kids is hyperfocused on those two places right now because she views higher education as elite = guaranteed success after college. I have spoken with admissions and financial aid at both places multiple times and we have visited both. The numbers above are from employees and the internet- not just hypothetical.

 

[mstateglfr]

I’m a libertarian and disagree with the decision for a private university. Harvard should be able to admit whoever they want for whatever reason as long as they aren’t receiving federal or state funding.

Let me add, yes I believe a private university/business/whatever should be able to exclude or specifically include any protected class or group of people they want from serving as long as no federal/state funding. That would have meant no COVID money/PPP loans.

And yes, I realize this allows people to be racist ********. Let the market decide. They won’t last long.

1- as already stated, almost every institution of higher learning accepts federal funding. Federal loans = federal funding. Its basically like a dozen extremely small and extremely religious colleges that dont accept any government funding. The % of total colleges is so small it is statistically not even relevant.

2- 'the market will decide' is what forced the country into creating laws that ensured equal access to goods and services regardless of skin color. The market decided and it did last long. It kept certain groups from eating in restaurants, from moving to certain neighborhoods, from being able to afford certain insurance, from being able to buy homes in certain areas, etc etc. Only one of the things I mentioned could be seen as receiving government funding, and it would actually be private funding from a company that received government funding.



Libertarianism is like Communism- it looks good on paper and would be an utter failure in practice.

 

[Bulldog from Birth]

Athletics, unlike the fields of Education, Medicine, Law, Engineering, Construction, Manufacturing, etc. is much too important to allow anything other than merit enter into the equation. ****

 

[Drebin]

ending affirmative action?

Looking for reasonable discussion. You can be biased based on your political leanings.... just try not to be an A$$4ole about it. Could end up helping state schools like ours from what I'm reading in terms of quality minority athletes and students.

State's acceptance rate is very high to begin with. So it's not going to affect us.

To me, it's silly to base college acceptance on anything other than merit. I see a bunch of liberals snapping back about legacy admissions, and I'm fine with doing away with that, too. What these folks on the left don't want to talk about is that affirmative action admissions disproportionately impact other POC's, particularly Asians. It was a horrible piece of legislation. No black person should be told that they aren't capable of accomplishing something on their own without the help of some rich white liberal elites in the government, and no other person should have to be denied because a university is required to take a less qualified student based on the color of their skin. It's so racist. It's the worst kind of racist.