How will MSU athletics be impacted by recent Supreme Court ruling....

[Cantdoitsal]

That one ruling set back the course of US History 100 years.

It was by no means the "right decision" as it was directly opposite several other cases that said the government DID have a responsibility to ensure private businesses serving the public could not discriminate . The court in 1886 said the Equal Protection Clause didn't apply in a very narrow application.


As for precedent: Rex v. Ivens 1835 said

Munn vs Illinois (1876) ( and Pleik vs Chicago)


The court has been "polictical" since Marbury vs Madison.

It seems you wish to bring back the old south.

If your argument is "Wind Power affects wildlife and society" more than Hydrocarbon based power, we cannot have a rational discussion. You are either to ignorant or stupid to continue a discussion.

Nothing you said was accurate. Equal Rights are no longer sufficient for today's Left needing instead Equal Outcomes which require discrimination and lowering of standards.

 

[ChE1997]

Nothing you said was accurate. Equal Rights are not longer sufficient for today's Left needing instead Equal Outcomes which require discrimination and lowering of standards.

LOL.

It's sad that you think that is what the "Left" wants....

 

[Cantdoitsal]

LOL.

It's sad that you think that is what the "Left" wants....

Educate Me. What DO yall want?

 

[mstateglfr]

Nothing you said was accurate. Equal Rights are not longer sufficient for today's Left needing instead Equal Outcomes which require discrimination and lowering of standards.

Equity does not inherently mean there is discrimination or lowered standards.

Glasses are equitable.
Hearing aids are equitable.
ESL classes can be equitable.
Etc etc.

Equity in education, since that is the thread topic, needn't result in lower standards or discrimination.





ETA- changed 'is' to 'in'.

 

[SouthFarmchicken]

1-
- federally backed student loans count as federal money being accepted by a university. So any university that accepts federal loans is what we are discussing here. That is how wide a net this casts.

2-
- it sucks that you disagree with the reality of history.
- it sucks that you defended your claim that racism wont last long in business practices by pointing to decades upon decades of accepted racism. That, to me, is a long time and shows your earlier comment is incorrect.
- you are incorrect that change happens naturally and change doesnt happen because of what the government 'forces or chooses for us'. the government forced schools to integrate and there were violent incidents for years after. change happened because the government moved forward regardless of what some wanted. you claim laws were put into place because people voted as change happened naturally, but even that is incorrect based on many examples. the change was refused for years. the change happened because in some instances courts forced laws to change. none of this is evidence of your wonky version of reality where change happened naturally.

3-
- I am not getting into wind power or EVs. this thread isnt about either and neither has dick to do with what you or I have posted up to now.

I’ll address point 2. I didn’t say racism doesn’t last long. Racism will be here forever. Formal Segregation would’ve ended naturally for economic reasons. Practical segregation still has not. It never will.

Slavery would’ve ended without the loss of countless lives. All these things would’ve ended due to economic realities I said change that occurs will happen naturally or it won’t occur at all. Racism will be here forever. Do you think the Court forcing people to integrate ended racism? Racist business and successful racist politicians

Someone living in an ivory tower shouldn’t decide how someone living in San Francisco gets to run their business or who a black man gets to marry in Helena, Montana. If you live in a shitthole state like mississippi, move. Or run for Governor. Government exists to protect life, liberty, and property. In that order. It doesn’t exist to impose a moral code on anyone.

The comment on wildlife was a complete joke. It’s one way how conservatives attack wind power, an industry which is in dire straits. I used to live in a city that had a Vestas manufacturing plant. I know all
about wind and know it’s not in our future unless we have a huge population decline, are 100% cool with blackouts, and we somehow legislate nuclear plants out of existence.

 

[Cantdoitsal]

Equity does not inherently mean there is discrimination or lowered standards.

Glasses are equitable.
Hearing aids are equitable.
ESL classes can be equitable.
Etc etc.

Equity is education, since that is the thread topic, needn't result in lower standards or discrimination.

So the arguments of both sides and The Chief Justice's Opinion mean Absolute Dick? Equity is NOT academic education and what was being fought was INDEED discrimination and lower standards and thankfully both were defeated.

 

[mstateglfr]

So the arguments of both sides and The Chief Justice's Opinion mean Absolute Dick? Equity is NOT academic education and what was being fought was INDEED discrimination and lower standards and thankfully both were defeated.

I mistyped, apologies. I typed 'is' and meant to type 'in'.

With that said, saying 'is' really isn't far off from reality.
We have equity built into both public and private education.

 

[Cantdoitsal]

I mistyped, apologies. I typed 'is' and meant to type 'in'.

With that said, saying 'is' really isn't far off from reality.
We have equity built into both public and private education.

I prefer the word "diversity" over "equity" because the latter is being used by the Affirmative Action folks as if we don't already have that. I'm a huge fan of diversity when opportunities come via meritocracy.

 

[mstateglfr]

I prefer the word "diversity" over "equity" because the latter is being used by the Affirmative Action folks as if we don't already have that. I'm a huge fan of diversity when opportunities come via meritocracy.

Those two words mean totally different things.
Thars like me saying I prefer the word 'candy cane' over the word 'strength'. Like, OK then...but those aren't synonyms.

 

[paindonthurt]

TLDR - Not affected at all.

Cue golfer or PDH for the smoking keyboard responses.

At this point, I haven’t read past your message.

Don’t know much about this ruling.

BUT rest assured if boom boom or golfer say something dumb I’m going to call them out.

 

[paindonthurt]

No idea how it would impact athletics at all.
I wouldn't imagine that would impact MSU overall in the very least. Places like Harvard and Yale, sure.
I am as liberal as it comes, but to me college admission should be based purely on achievement. The admission requirements should be clearly stated by each university, if you qualify you are in. If you don't, you are not in. Let the chips fall where they may.

Race, Religion, gender, and for that matter names should not even be used during the admission process. Just remove all that bias on the front end.

Best qualified potential students get in, nothing else matters.

Now if you want to give a certain number of spot to under-privilaged students, you need to do it across the board. Race shouldn't factor. Maybe socio/economic.

See I can agree with liberals.

Reasonable and logical.

 

[paindonthurt]

The problem for those like Lord and many others, if they don’t fall in line with the march of the party, they are considered toxic. The other side that’s always “right” does the same thing.
I’ll go a step farther. Demographic quotas everywhere, especially in the workplace, should be abolished, too, for the same reasons already mentioned. Everything should be merit based. In a strained labor market like this one, an idiot employer who passes up qualified help solely because of race won’t last long any way.

Here’s and ultra right wing conservative point of view for you (since that’s what I am).

If everything was equal: gpa, experience, performance evals, sales records, any metric you can think of that is easily and objectively measured. You have 4 candidates ALL ARE SLAM DUNKS EQUAL.

white man
Black man
White woman
Black woman

I’d most likely hire the white or black woman assuming they were the minority in the industry or my company. Diversity is good if it makes sense. Diversity is dumb if it doesn’t.

 

[paindonthurt]

Unfortunately, liberal gets a bad wrap with all the hand out stuff. Generally, I believe that as humans we should help as many people be the best that they can be, regardless of government programs, taxes, or local charity work. But when the requirements to get into college are based on performance, then it should be based on performance.

As far as my government, I love the New Deal and what it has done to our country. I fully support an all of the above approach to energy with a focus in investing in renewables. I fully support Social Security, but I do not like Social Security funds being used for other things which is its issue. Social security is not the issue, it is raiding its funds for other stuff. I support welfare programs, but I support them with tapered benefits not to trap people to low income jobs. I do support a more even distributed marginal tax rate that extends beyond 37% top rate to 55%, but the top end would be higher to get to that limit and all the steps below them would be equal. I also believe, people should never get more money back in taxes than they ever paid in. Everyone should have some skin in the game. I do not believe that inheritance taxes are fair. I do not believe in taxing wealth

I fully support our military, but I also feel like that support should be above and beyond for their lifetime, especially those that served in active situations. That includes taking care of them for life. I would do away with the VA and put them in a private insurance situation that allows them to go to any doctor, anywhere, at anytime. I am for competition on drug prices for medicare/medicaid. No prescription drug should be sold in another country cheaper than the US, ever.

I do support a single payer healthcare system, because I see that as a basic right of all citizens to have healthcare and for that healthcare not to bankrupt you and your family when it happens. Not a fan of health insurance companies and I am not a fan of employer provided health insurance either. I know this would cost a **** ton of money, but right now we are already spending a **** ton of money for terrible coverage.

I hated bud light before they spit in everyone's face /s.

Biden is old, but even then he is better than the alternatives except for Whitmer. Give me Chris Christie if it has to be a republican, or Mitt Romney.

I don’t agree with everything in your post but I agree with a lot of it.

You damn sure aren’t a “modern” day liberal.

Not asking you to explain bc it will go sideways but I’d love to hear your take on why “not trump”. Besides he tweets mean things and says crazy ****.

 

[paindonthurt]

I know this is an article of faith on the right. But it's probably not true.

Selective Bias: Asian Americans, Test Scores, and Holistic Admissions - CEW Georgetown

There’s no strong evidence of discrimination against Asian American applicants in admissions to highly selective colleges.

cew.georgetown.edu

Guess next you are gonna tell us Asian hate crimes aren’t up?

Then I’d like to see your statistics on what races are committing those crimes.

I’ll wait patiently.

 

[Podgy]

Equity does not inherently mean there is discrimination or lowered standards.

Glasses are equitable.
Hearing aids are equitable.
ESL classes can be equitable.
Etc etc.

Equity in education, since that is the thread topic, needn't result in lower standards or discrimination.





ETA- changed 'is' to 'in'.

Why do the equity folx use children's pictures to stress a point? That's not equity. That's giving a kid a ladder to pick fruit out of a tree. When I had an infant, I carried her because she couldn't walk. Equity, I guess. Good dads embrace Equity. I'm special.

Anyway, the ruling won't affect State much. It involved an incredibly wealthy, elite private school violating the civil rights of Asian Americans. Don't look for Harvard to apologize anytime soon. Affirmative Action is the biggest form of institutional and systemic racism in higher education and I challenge anyone to disprove that statement. Good riddance. I just wish Harvard and other elite schools would be honest in their rejection letters. "Dear Rejected Person: Unfortunately, and even though your test scores and g.p.a. are amazing, you're Asian American so you're not getting into Harvard because we support Equity and a certain type of diversity that allows us to discriminate against you in favor of others we think provide better diversity. No hard feelings, right?

 

[paindonthurt]

Athletics, unlike the fields of Education, Medicine, Law, Engineering, Construction, Manufacturing, etc. is much too important to allow anything other than merit enter into the equation. ****

I’m sure this will turn heads but 17 it.

Do we think black people are more physically gifted that white people and Asians when it comes to athletics?

 

[Podgy]

Guess next you are gonna tell us Asian hate crimes aren’t up?

Then I’d like to see your statistics on what races are committing those crimes.

I’ll wait patiently.

We who discriminate against Asian Americans and support discriminating against Asian Americans find no strong evidence that we discriminate against Asian Americans. We also believe the moon is made of cheese.

 

[Podgy]

I’m sure this will turn heads but 17 it.

Do we think black people are more physically gifted that white people and Asians when it comes to athletics?

The NBA is an institutionally racist and sexist organization. Well, it looks like it is. I suppose some people might say there's merit involved in evaluating the talent we see on the court. But, I think , the NBA needs a wholistic approach that recognizes merit as a constellation of factors to consider besides shooting and rebounding and post-up play.

 

[Cantdoitsal]

Those two words mean totally different things.
Thars like me saying I prefer the word 'candy cane' over the word 'strength'. Like, OK then...but those aren't synonyms.

Good point as I've typically viewed "Equity" as property value that exceeds what's owed on it. "Equitable" typically refers to fairness I assume so I guess that's where "Equity" comes in on EIG or EID or whatever in the hell it is.

 

[Podgy]

Asian Americans have the highest test scores, longest life spans and lowest incarceration rates in the country. Thus, Asian Americans have the most white privilege of anyone in America.

 

[Podgy]

The data does not show significant differences in aptitude as we measure it.

Maybe the data you haven't looked at or intentionally ignore. Asian Americans are killing it on the ACT and SAT, both are tests of aptitude. https://www.piqosity.com/2016/09/21/act-test-scores-by-state-for-class-of-2016/

Progressives did a great job shutting down schools. The ACT scores of black Americans continues to decline: https://www.jbhe.com/2021/10/black-...t-continue-to-fall-and-the-racial-gap-widens/