I guess this is what some of you young guys

[thatsbaseball]

have been trying to tell us cave dwellers. Subject came up yesterday. This was a modest $30K(?) home my mother in law's family lived in in Dallas many years ago.

5930 Vanderbilt Ave, Dallas, TX 75206 - 2 beds/1 bath

(NTREIS) 2 beds, 1 bath, 1276 sq. ft. house located at 5930 Vanderbilt Ave, Dallas, TX 75206 sold on Mar 16, 2016 after being listed at $399,900. MLS# 13323800. Charming M-Streets Tudor. Fully remodeled kit...

www.redfin.com

 

[AstroDog]

I paid $48,000 in 1983 for a 1350 sq. ft. home in Desoto Co. and that included 3 acres and the septic tank system installation. Can't even sniff that nowadays.

 

[L4Dawg]

have been trying to tell us cave dwellers. Subject came up yesterday. This was a modest $30K(?) home my mother in law's family lived in in Dallas many years ago.

5930 Vanderbilt Ave, Dallas, TX 75206 - 2 beds/1 bath

(NTREIS) 2 beds, 1 bath, 1276 sq. ft. house located at 5930 Vanderbilt Ave, Dallas, TX 75206 sold on Mar 16, 2016 after being listed at $399,900. MLS# 13323800. Charming M-Streets Tudor. Fully remodeled kit...

www.redfin.com

$30k in 1955 money is the equivalent of $341k today.

 

[patdog]

Sister and brother in law have a similar house, only it's been added onto. Bought about a 1,200 sq ft older house in a Birmingham suburb for less than $100,000 20 years ago. Added an addition to the back that added about 800 sq ft. Then a tree fell on the old part of the house and mostly destroyed it, so used insurance money plus some additional investment to add a 2nd floor. Not sure what they've got in the house, but pretty sure less than $250,000 and it's worth about $800,000.

 

[thatsbaseball]

$30k in 1955 money is the equivalent of $341k today.

I guessed at the 30K, it probably was a lot less. They were comfortable but not wealthy.

 

[Car Ramrod.sixpack]

I paid $48,000 in 1983 for a 1350 sq. ft. home in Desoto Co. and that included 3 acres and the septic tank system installation. Can't even sniff that nowadays.

You can't find 3 acres of suitable land for a house for 48k in Desoto county right now.

 

[skipper.sixpack]

Bought house in Orange Beach right before Covid and paid $266,000 for 1800 sq ft. Sold it 2 years later for 409,000.
Then bought another house in same neighborhood for 464,000 and 2500 square feet. Like houses in neighborhood now selling for 575,000
Crazy

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I paid $48,000 in 1983 for a 1350 sq. ft. home in Desoto Co. and that included 3 acres and the septic tank system installation. Can't even sniff that nowadays.

+1 for getting "septic tank" and "sniff" in the same post but in different contexts.

 

[L4Dawg]

I paid $48,000 in 1983 for a 1350 sq. ft. home in Desoto Co. and that included 3 acres and the septic tank system installation. Can't even sniff that nowadays.

That's $147k today.

 

[L4Dawg]

Sister and brother in law have a similar house, only it's been added onto. Bought about a 1,200 sq ft older house in a Birmingham suburb for less than $100,000 20 years ago. Added an addition to the back that added about 800 sq ft. Then a tree fell on the old part of the house and mostly destroyed it, so used insurance money plus some additional investment to add a 2nd floor. Not sure what they've got in the house, but pretty sure less than $250,000 and it's worth about $800,000.

$165k in today's money.

 

[ChE1997]

$165k in today's money.

Now do salaries adjusted for that time period....

 

[ChE1997]

$30k in 1955 money is the equivalent of $341k today.

It's selling for $721,000.

So thanks for proving our point.

 

[8dog]

Now do salaries adjusted for that time period....

Well for some context to all this - the S&P 500 is about 27 times what it was at the end of 1983

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

$30k in 1955 money is the equivalent of $341k today.

Exactly. I was about to post this very comment. It's all commiserate. People say " wow...you could buy a new mustang for $3000 in 1969". Yeah but I was making $85 a week. So...duh

 

[L4Dawg]

It's selling for $721,000.

So thanks for proving our point.

I wasn't making any point, see the other posts. Just providing context. Think those homes might have been updated a bit since 1955?

 

[ChE1997]

I wasn't making any point, see the other posts. Just providing context. Think those homes might have been updated a bit since 1955?

I'm sure they were some.

Do you think they were "updated" since 2016 enough to make the sales price go from $399,000 to $712,000?

You keep thining that it's normal inflation. It's not.

 

[Dawgg]

Exactly. I was about to post this very comment. It's all commiserate. People say " wow...you could buy a new mustang for $3000 in 1969". Yeah but I was making $85 a week. So...duh

From what I can find online:

The median household income in 1980 was $21,000.
The median home price in 1980 was $47,000.
So, the average home price was 2.23 times the average income in 1980.

The median household income today is $57,000
The median home price today is $327,000.
So, the average home price is 5.73 times the average income today.

 

[Dawgg]

I paid $48,000 in 1983 for a 1350 sq. ft. home in Desoto Co. and that included 3 acres and the septic tank system installation. Can't even sniff that nowadays.

My parents paid about $20,000 for our home in Corinth in 1982. For a long time, my mom's barometer on how much she would spend on a vehicle was that it had to be less than she paid for her house. I think she was able to keep that up until the last few years.

 

[Raiderdawg]

have been trying to tell us cave dwellers. Subject came up yesterday. This was a modest $30K(?) home my mother in law's family lived in in Dallas many years ago.

5930 Vanderbilt Ave, Dallas, TX 75206 - 2 beds/1 bath

(NTREIS) 2 beds, 1 bath, 1276 sq. ft. house located at 5930 Vanderbilt Ave, Dallas, TX 75206 sold on Mar 16, 2016 after being listed at $399,900. MLS# 13323800. Charming M-Streets Tudor. Fully remodeled kit...

www.redfin.com

Homes in my neighborhood are routinely selling in the $525,000-$550,000 price range now. The same homes were $300,000 five years ago and ~$150,000 20 years ago.

 

[L4Dawg]

I'm sure they were some.

Do you think they were "updated" since 2016 enough to make the sales price go from $399,000 to $712,000?

You keep thining that it's normal inflation. It's not.

Have you every heard of supply and demand? Real estate booms aren't anything new. What's new is boom towns artificially restricting supply. If you want to point fingers, point them directly at local and state governments.

 

[ChE1997]

Have you every heard of supply and demand? Real estate booms aren't anything new. What's new is boom towns artificially restricting supply. If you want to point fingers, point them directly at local and state governments.

It's happening in far more areas than a " Real estate boom" but because it's not in lee county you dont think it's real....

And it's not the government, it's the system. like we told you last week...

 

[HRMSU]

Not smart enough or energized enough about this pissing match to look it up but it would be interesting to take a look at inventory availability comparisons at least for the recent spikes. Looking back too far is not really apples to apples with the proliferation of National and corporate builders not to mention the down payment requirements.

 

[paindonthurt]

have been trying to tell us cave dwellers. Subject came up yesterday. This was a modest $30K(?) home my mother in law's family lived in in Dallas many years ago.

5930 Vanderbilt Ave, Dallas, TX 75206 - 2 beds/1 bath

(NTREIS) 2 beds, 1 bath, 1276 sq. ft. house located at 5930 Vanderbilt Ave, Dallas, TX 75206 sold on Mar 16, 2016 after being listed at $399,900. MLS# 13323800. Charming M-Streets Tudor. Fully remodeled kit...

www.redfin.com

Another great reason to live in Mississippi

 

[af102]

It’s like this over in Atlanta- I bought my first house (3/1.5 ~1100sqft) in an intown neighborhood for $290k in 2017. I could sell it now for ~$500k if I wanted, but I wouldn’t be able to find anything like what we need near where we already live.

A house across the street sold for ~$300k in 2005 and sold a few months ago for almost $800k. It just isn’t sustainable.

There are essentially no “starter homes” being built over here, and lots of old smaller houses just get demolished to build something that sells for over $700k. The land is too expensive to throw up a 3/2 1500 sqft house on.

 

[L4Dawg]

It's happening in far more areas than a " Real estate boom" but because it's not in lee county you dont think it's real....

And it's not the government, it's the system. like we told you last week...

Oh, it's happening in Lee County too, just not to the degree it is in bigger places. Maybe you should move to Lee County instead of pursuing the big buck in places with a high cost of living?

 

[ChE1997]

Oh, it's happening in Lee County too, just not to the degree it is in bigger places. Maybe you should move to Lee County instead of pursuing the big buck in places with a high cost of living?

Which multinational energy company has an conceptual development office in Mississippi? Or Alabama? Georgia? Louisiana?

Not everyone is a medical office manager that can live wherever....

Like I said, the issue is this is happening everywhere there are jobs.... If it's not where you live, then it's because employers don't want to move there.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Housing is quickly becoming a major issue (already is). Housing shortage and high rates, along with crazy high values (prices) make for rough times.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

That house is in Lower Greenville which is an extremely attractive neighborhood these days. I bought my first house (1650sf) about a mile away from there in 2011 for $235k and sold 6.5 years later for $450k so somebody could tear it down and build a 4000sf mcmansion.

If you have lived in MS for a long time, it doesn't register how much homes have appreciated in places like Dallas, Austin, and Nashville over the last decade plus. In the last 23 years DFW has grown by the entire population of Mississippi effectively as it's increased from 5.2 million people to right at 8 million today.


This creates unreal demand on real estate, especially homes located in nice neighborhoods with reasonable commutes to the city center and suburbs with good schools and shopping. Texas is where California was in the 80's or 90's. The growth is unsustainable and the infrastructure is busting at the seems. Property values have skyrocketed since 2011, not just COVID. It's quickly becoming unaffordable for many.

 

[Yeti]

From what I can find online:

The median household income in 1980 was $21,000.
The median home price in 1980 was $47,000.
So, the average home price was 2.23 times the average income in 1980.

The median household income today is $57,000
The median home price today is $327,000.
So, the average home price is 5.73 times the average income today.

What was the interest rate on a mortgage in 1980? I’m too lazy to look. But I guess double digits

 

[Dawgg]

What was the interest rate on a mortgage in 1980? I’m too lazy to look. But I guess double digits

Fair question. Google says 13.74% on a $47,000 30 year mortgage, that’s $574 a month or 32.8% of the monthly median income.

Comparing that with today’s rate of about 8% on a $327,000 30 year mortgage, that’s $2,375 a month or 50% of the monthly median income.

One other thing to remember is a lot of those people with those ridiculous interest rates in 1980 were able to refinance to rates below 10% in the 90’s, so they got to double dip, having a low price home with a low interest rate and their house payment reduced significantly.

 

[QuadrupleOption]

I've seen the same happen in Madison to a lesser degree. I could currently sell my home (4BR, 3BA) for around $150K more than what I paid for it eight years ago.

Sounds awesome until I realized that I'd have to buy another house at these inflated prices, so I'll just stay put.

 

[NWADawg]

Have you every heard of supply and demand? Real estate booms aren't anything new. What's new is boom towns artificially restricting supply. If you want to point fingers, point them directly at local and state governments.

I would like to understand how you think local government is restricting supply of new homes. If you're speaking about zoning and not letting folks build high density housing in the middle of estate type housing, that's a pretty weak argument. If you think cities are saying, you can build but that guy can't, I doubt it.

I am on city council for a small town that is growing rapidly and can't imagine having or wanting the power and authority to decide how many homes can be built and/or who gets to build them. It's the owner's land. If they meet the drainage, engineering, ordinance, zoning, other standard requirements, it's their land to build if they want to.

 

[Podgy]

I recommend buying a house in a nice neighborhood and one with a low crime rate, good schools and in an area where restrictions and big landowners limit the amount of housing being built so that demand vastly exceeds supply. Find one with a homeowners association with owners who care about the neighborhood so that they keep riff raff out and don't let homeowners allow their property to look trashy. Cash in later. I didn't buy my first house until my mid-30s and didn't get comfortable until my mid-40s. Not saying that's the path others should follow because that's what I did. But, too many young Americans are embracing doom and gloom like old Americans, although both groups exaggerate different things. Home ownership levels are pretty high in America.

 

[Podgy]

Single women are more likely than single men to own homes. Find a woman who owns a home, has a great job, makes more money than you do and marry her. I did

Single Women Are More Likely To Own Homes Than Single Men In Nearly All States

Data suggests that single women prioritize homeownership more than men.

www.forbes.com

 

[L4Dawg]

I would like to understand how you think local government is restricting supply of new homes. If you're speaking about zoning and not letting folks build high density housing in the middle of estate type housing, that's a pretty weak argument. If you think cities are saying, you can build but that guy can't, I doubt it.

I am on city council for a small town that is growing rapidly and can't imagine having or wanting the power and authority to decide how many homes can be built and/or who gets to build them. It's the owner's land. If they meet the drainage, engineering, ordinance, zoning, other standard requirements, it's their land to build if they want to.

That's the way it should work, but it doesn't everywhere. Do y'all even look at news? And no I'm not saying that garbage about high density housing in low density zones.

 

[Yeti]

Fair question. Google says 13.74% on a $47,000 30 year mortgage, that’s $574 a month or 32.8% of the monthly median income.

Comparing that with today’s rate of about 8% on a $327,000 30 year mortgage, that’s $2,375 a month or 50% of the monthly median income.

One other thing to remember is a lot of those people with those ridiculous interest rates in 1980 were able to refinance to rates below 10% in the 90’s, so they got to double dip, having a low price home with a low interest rate and their house payment reduced significantly.

Fair but do we expect rates to stay where they are ? Had you purchased 2 years ago it would probably be even

 

[NWADawg]

That's the way it should work, but it doesn't everywhere. Do y'all even look at news? And no I'm not saying that garbage about high density housing in low density zones.

I can say it doesn't happen near where I live. As for national news, it went away years ago. Propaganda TV has taken it's place so I don't watch very often. I believe it less than I do "IT's Coming!!!".

The only somewhat legit excuse a city could have for limiting growth would be lack of utility infrastructure. If that's the case, shame on the city.

 

[Podgy]

It seems like we have an opportunity for some young, entrepreneurial Americans who have identified a problem, a limited supply of moderately priced houses, to satisfy the demand for moderately priced housing by becoming contractors.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

I can say it doesn't happen near where I live. As for national news, it went away years ago. Propaganda TV has taken it's place so I don't watch very often. I believe it less than I do "IT's Coming!!!".

The only somewhat legit excuse a city could have for limiting growth would be lack of utility infrastructure. If that's the case, shame on the city.

Coming from the possibly best planned city in the country (Frisco TX) to one of the worst up here in the mountains, it's definitely a thing.

Our idiots have the entire highway into town lined with estate lots of 20 acres per home (nobody building an estate is doing it on the highway) and have all the high density housing/multifamily crammed along the lake where land is well over $1mm per acre.

If you want to build you have to pay $2500 to the sewer department for a feasibility study (sewer is at capacity until 2025-26 FYI). You have to pay to have sidewalks installed even if none exist around you. The permits are approximately 4-5% of the cost to build. If you want to cut down a tree greater than 12" in diameter you have to pay the city arborist to come out. If you want to build over 2400 SF you have to go in front of planning and zoning. If you want to use septic, the city, state, and federal authorities have to approve the site and it's only good for 1 year. Pretty much the same for a well.

I figure that these idiots add $150k per home on average.... Back in Frisco they gave you a free hammer, directions to where you can hire day laborers, and a $5000 stimulus check as soon as you walk into the permit office and mentioned the word build.**

 

[ChE1997]

It seems like we have an opportunity for some young, entrepreneurial Americans who have identified a problem, a limited supply of moderately priced houses, to satisfy the demand for moderately priced housing by becoming contractors.

Why would any builder build a "affordable to moderately" priced house, when I spend the same to build a mcMansion and make 2x the money?