I think Franklin is still hindered by the Sanctions PSU went thru.

[Mr. Potter]

in the beginning of his tenure when we were under punishment I could see why he would show commitment thru thick and thin with a player who was inconsistent or not the best talent available from a purely survival standpoint of fielding a roster and not losing players.

However, I can see where this mentality from the earlier trauma can't be corrected. There is an expression "Loyal to a fault" this is an outcome we might be experiencing with Coach Franklin

 

[GrimReaper]

Horseshit.

 

[Bkmtnittany1]

Horseshit.

Stop sugar-coating your responses. Tell him straight-up!

 

[Connorpozlee]

Franklin is hindered by not being a great coach, honestly. Given more talent than the opponent, he can usually win. Given equal or less talent, I’ll take the opponent every time.

 

[Alphalion75]

in the beginning of his tenure when we were under punishment I could see why he would show commitment thru thick and thin with a player who was inconsistent or not the best talent available from a purely survival standpoint of fielding a roster and not losing players.

However, I can see where this mentality from the earlier trauma can't be corrected. There is an expression "Loyal to a fault" this is an outcome we might be experiencing with Coach Franklin

Really? Do you think he needs therapy?

 

[GrimReaper]

Stop sugar-coating your responses. Tell him straight-up!

The sanctions were pretty much lifted by the time Franklin took over. Granted he inherited roster issues resulting from sanction limitations on scholarships over the previous two years, but we're eight years beyond that. In another thread, people blame him for facilities and coaching salary limitations. Even Freeh had no idea of the power Paterno wielded from beyond the grave.

 

[Midnighter]

in the beginning of his tenure when we were under punishment I could see why he would show commitment thru thick and thin with a player who was inconsistent or not the best talent available from a purely survival standpoint of fielding a roster and not losing players.

However, I can see where this mentality from the earlier trauma can't be corrected. There is an expression "Loyal to a fault" this is an outcome we might be experiencing with Coach Franklin

 

[PSUFBFAN]

Franklin is hindered by not being a great coach, honestly. Given more talent than the opponent, he can usually win. Given equal or less talent, I’ll take the opponent every time.

There are 131 FBS head coaches. Name me 5 that regularly beat more talented opponents.

 

[BobPSU92]

Joe Cruz!

Our defensive linemen need to hit the field with the Slamigan!

 

[psuro]

Franklin is hindered by having one of the four best CFB programs in his backyard. He has shown he can beat Michigan on occassion, but you can chalk up a loss to OSU pretty much every year. It's always that other loss(es) that have haunted PSU in years when they had a shot.

 

[Bvillebaron]

Franklin is hindered by not being a great coach, honestly. Given more talent than the opponent, he can usually win. Given equal or less talent, I’ll take the opponent every time.

So you think Penn State had more talent than OSU in 2016 or any other year since Franklin arrived at Penn State. Obviously, having a clue is not a prerequisite to posting here.

 

[BobPSU92]

There are 131 FBS head coaches. Name me 5 that regularly beat more talented opponents.

Everyone not named James Franklin.

In all seriousness, a question is why don’t we have the talent? Penn State has the name and history. Franklin has been here a while.

 

[Midnighter]

Franklin is hindered by having one of the four best CFB programs in his backyard. He has shown he can beat Michigan on occassion, but you can chalk up a loss to OSU pretty much every year. It's always that other loss(es) that have haunted PSU in years when they had a shot.

Yeah, this is the real issue. It's not never beating OSU - it's losing to Pitt, Minnesota, Illinois, Kentucky, Arkansas, Iowa, etc. who have nowhere near the talent Penn State has. You can add Michigan State to the list too. But we usually play OSU pretty close - no reason you can't do better than one win a decade.

 

[psuro]

Yeah, this is the real issue. It's not never beating OSU - it's losing to Pitt, Minnesota, Illinois, Kentucky, Arkansas, Iowa, etc. who have nowhere near the talent Penn State has. You can add Michigan State to the list too. But we usually play OSU pretty close - no reason you can't do better than one win a decade.

Oh, I don't disagree. In all honesty, if PSU had eliminated losses to Pitt in 2016, MSU in 2017, and Minny in 2019 - I think a strong case could have been made for inclusion into the CFP. (Although probably still tough).

Just for the record. following are the records of PSU head FB coaches against OSU

Rip Engle: 3-0 (pretty sure this was before Woody showed up).
Joe Paterno: 8-14
Tom Bradley: 1-0
Bill O'Brien: 0-2
James Franklin: 1-8

 

[PSU87]

No. Because Karen Peetz said it would all be forgotten by 2014.

 

[bbrown]

Oh, I don't disagree. In all honesty, if PSU had eliminated losses to Pitt in 2016, MSU in 2017, and Minny in 2019 - I think a strong case could have been made for inclusion into the CFP. (Although probably still tough).

Just for the record. following are the records of PSU head FB coaches against OSU

Rip Engle: 3-0 (pretty sure this was before Woody showed up).
Joe Paterno: 8-14
Tom Bradley: 1-0
Bill O'Brien: 0-2
James Franklin: 1-8

agree about MSU in 2017 and my biggest complaint against Franklin is his record against MSU.
Ohio State in the 70's, 80's and even early 90's was not even close to the BEAST that OSU has become in the last 7 years.
I take those records with a HUGE grain of salt.

 

[Midnighter]

agree about MSU in 2017 and my biggest complaint against Franklin is his record against MSU.
Ohio State in the 70's, 80's and even early 90's was not even close to the BEAST that OSU has become in the last 7 years.
I take those records with a HUGE grain of salt.

I mean, O'Brien had zero chance of beating them.

 

[ODShowtime]

I'm The Master of Excuses and I stopped using the sanctions as an excuse a few years ago.

 

[psuro]

agree about MSU in 2017 and my biggest complaint against Franklin is his record against MSU.
Ohio State in the 70's, 80's and even early 90's was not even close to the BEAST that OSU has become in the last 7 years.
I take those records with a HUGE grain of salt.

Sure. But these are the numbers that are in the record books. You can't really blame O'Brien for being 0-2.

But, looking at the big picture, PSU has not fared well against OSU. Franklin's lack of success, while a bit of an extreme, is really not out of the ordinary. What is out of the ordinary is Rip being 3-0 aginast OSU. And I was incorrect in my prevoius post - Woody got to OSU in 1951 and by 1954, they were National Champions.

 

[sayflip9]

Nope, not buying it.

 

[oldpsubear]

Seriously

 

[LionJim]

We’ve had an incredible run of bad luck with career-ending health conditions but need to stop using sanctions as an excuse. In the end, making excuses does nothing but hold you back. I used to teach mathematics, I know about students making excuses. If you’re not good enough in the moment, do something about it.

 

[ODShowtime]

In the end, making excuses does nothing but hold you back.

Speak for yourself! Excuses are crucial, I couldn't get through a day without them. Excuses make the world go 'round. But they must be credible.

 

[BobPSU92]

In the end, making excuses does nothing but hold you back…If you’re not good enough in the moment, do something about it.

How does this help me? Excuses are all I have.

 

[psuro]

How does this help me? Excuses are all I have.

To paraphrae George Costanza....excuse are reasons, if you believe them to be.

 

[Connorpozlee]

There are 131 FBS head coaches. Name me 5 that regularly beat more talented opponents.

Nope, not going to do that. Name me all the ones that routinely lose to teams with equal talent, which was the other part of my equation.

 

[PSUAVLNC]

Oh, I don't disagree. In all honesty, if PSU had eliminated losses to Pitt in 2016, MSU in 2017, and Minny in 2019 - I think a strong case could have been made for inclusion into the CFP. (Although probably still tough).

Just for the record. following are the records of PSU head FB coaches against OSU

Rip Engle: 3-0 (pretty sure this was before Woody showed up).
Joe Paterno: 8-14
Tom Bradley: 1-0
Bill O'Brien: 0-2
James Franklin: 1-8

Interesting post - it would interesting as well to see a JF vs each B1G team over his 9 years and overall his bowl record.

 

[fearson05]

agree about MSU in 2017 and my biggest complaint against Franklin is his record against MSU.
Ohio State in the 70's, 80's and even early 90's was not even close to the BEAST that OSU has become in the last 7 years.
I take those records with a HUGE grain of salt.

One of the issues I think many of us have is that if PSU didn't give away big 4th quarter leads in 2 of the OSU games since 2016, maybe we could have won a few more recruiting battles against them and they may not be viewed as the BEAST they are today by our fan base.

During Joe's last 10 years we had wins over them in 01, 05 & 08. Franklin should've been able to boast a similar (or better) record, but our teams seem to fall apart late in games more often than what would be considered reasonably acceptable.

 

[bbrown]

Speak for yourself! Excuses are crucial, I couldn't get through a day without them. Excuses make the world go 'round. But they must be credible.

I think your confusing excuses for a good "rationalization".

 

[Bkmtnittany1]

To paraphrae George Costanza....excuse are reasons, if you believe them to be.

"Remember Jerry, it is not a lie...if you believe it!"

 

[TheBigUglies]

I agree with others that the excuses need stop. I don't see Franklin making improvements during his tenure(Hmmm, did we say the same about JoePa post dark years?). Anyway, sometimes it feels like this quote: "I run 6 plays, split veer. It's like Novocain. Just give it time, it always works." - old school thinking and stubbornness.

At this point with the athletes coming in, it all points to coaching, whether it be the play calling, blocking schemes, or whatever, it is not improving. Granted 10-2 will be a great season but I know we all aspire for that national championship and need to breakthru to the next level. Next level to me would be beating Big10 teams like what we did to Minny, and then close games or wins with Mich and OSU. Struggling with Perdue and then getting pummeled by Mich and OSU puts us at average.

 

[Midnighter]

Bigger concern than Franklin or any other HC is NIL and what happens when the big money players at some of these 'all in' schools get established. I don't know that we'll go the way of Nebraska, but we already struggle to get the DDS and Drew Allar's of the world. I think this spring will be crazy with more Jordan Addison type transfers that are all about money. We can't compete for top talent with T-Shirt sales and local car dealership deals.

 

[bbrown]

I agree with others that the excuses need stop. I don't see Franklin making improvements during his tenure(Hmmm, did we say the same about JoePa post dark years?). Anyway, sometimes it feels like this quote: "I run 6 plays, split veer. It's like Novocain. Just give it time, it always works." - old school thinking and stubbornness.

At this point with the athletes coming in, it all points to coaching, whether it be the play calling, blocking schemes, or whatever, it is not improving. Granted 10-2 will be a great season but I know we all aspire for that national championship and need to breakthru to the next level. Next level to me would be beating Big10 teams like what we did to Minny, and then close games or wins with Mich and OSU. Struggling with Perdue and then getting pummeled by Mich and OSU puts us at average.

Well to be fair I haven't heard Franklin use the sanctions as an excuse for a while. I'm also not understanding your "I don't see Franklin making improvements" statement either. Do you mean with the football team itself or with the program in general because I've seen massive improvements in both. JMO.

 

[marshall23]

in the beginning of his tenure when we were under punishment I could see why he would show commitment thru thick and thin with a player who was inconsistent or not the best talent available from a purely survival standpoint of fielding a roster and not losing players.

However, I can see where this mentality from the earlier trauma can't be corrected. There is an expression "Loyal to a fault" this is an outcome we might be experiencing with Coach Franklin

So If he chose to anoint Tommy Stevens....wouldn't that be loyalty to a fault? How about Levis.....way was he not "loyal to a fault" with Levis? Franklin is only "loyal to a fault" when he doesn't play the "fair haired" boy of the moment.
Once again, fanboys know best. Coaches are just uninformed, overpaid clowns who get in the way of the BWICAC....the real football coaching experts.
Here's a thought. PSU is going to be the third or fourth best team in the Big Ten most years. They have/can beat Michigan 1of three or two of four and perhaps be number two in the conference.
That's who they are. That's their ceiling.
I'd love to see PSU surpass OSU and be in the playoffs most seasons. Please tell me the coach "WE" are hiring who is coming here and making this happen.
Perhaps the football geniuses here will take the position they do at QB....well just throw him in there and see what happens....they can't do any worse.
That's called the Nebraska method of coaching evaluation.
"WE" should only accept the coach who has a winning record against to 10 opponents.
I will await the list.
While we're Franklin bashing, please recycle all the tears and recriminations thrown at Franklin for "losing" Julian Fleming.
It's clear Julian would have put PSU over the top right?
AND if he did commit here with the results he has had to date you coaching experts would be claiming he ruined the Hope Diamond. Incredible stupidity on display here everyday. It's very entertaining.

 

[BobPSU92]

So If he chose to anoint Tommy Stevens....wouldn't that be loyalty to a fault? How about Levis.....way was he not "loyal to a fault" with Levis? Franklin is only "loyal to a fault" when he doesn't play the "fair haired" boy of the moment.
Once again, fanboys know best. Coaches are just uninformed, overpaid clowns who get in the way of the BWICAC....the real football coaching experts.
Here's a thought. PSU is going to be the third or fourth best team in the Big Ten most years. They have/can beat Michigan 1of three or two of four and perhaps be number two in the conference.
That's who they are. That's their ceiling.
I'd love to see PSU surpass OSU and be in the playoffs most seasons. Please tell me the coach "WE" are hiring who is coming here and making this happen.
Perhaps the football geniuses here will take the position they do at QB....well just throw him in there and see what happens....they can't do any worse.
That's called the Nebraska method of coaching evaluation.
"WE" should only accept the coach who has a winning record against to 10 opponents.
I will await the list.
While we're Franklin bashing, please recycle all the tears and recriminations thrown at Franklin for "losing" Julian Fleming.
It's clear Julian would have put PSU over the top right?
AND if he did commit here with the results he has had to date you coaching experts would be claiming he ruined the Hope Diamond. Incredible stupidity on display here everyday. It's very entertaining.

urban’s available.

 

[marshall23]

urban’s available.

I'm all for a coaching change. I'd love to see James collect his 60 plus million and these misanthropes here continue to suffer their pathetic lives while trashing the next lucky HFBC.
That would only be less amusing than seeing these clowns piss their pants if anyone ever put them on the sidelines to make an in game decision.

 

[Psu00]

Interesting post - it would interesting as well to see a JF vs each B1G team over his 9 years and overall his bowl record.

Here ya go, (years at PSU)-

Big Ten- (46-30)

-Ohio St- 1-8
-Michigan- 3-6
-Michigan St- 3-5

-Illinois- 3-2
-Northwestern- 2-2
-Iowa- 4-2
-Nebraska- 1-1
-Wisconsin- 3-0
-Maryland- 6-2
-Rutgers- 8-0
-Minnesota- 2-1
-Indiana- 7-1
-Purdue- 3-0

Non con games- (24-2)

-UCF- 1-0
-Akron- 2-0
-Umass- 1-0
-Buffalo- 2-0
-San Diego St- 1-0
-Army- 1-0
-Kent St- 2-0
-Pitt- 3-1
-Georgia St- 1-0
-App St- 1-0
-Idaho- 1-0
-Ball St- 1-0
-Auburn- 2-0
-Villanova- 1-0
-Ohio- 1-0
-Central Michigan- 1-0
-Temple- 2-1

Bowls- (3-4)

-Boston College- 1-0
-Memphis- 1-0
-Washington- 1-0
-USC- 0-1
-Georgia- 0-1
-Arkansas- 0-1
-Kentucky- 0-1

 

[s1uggo72]

One of the issues I think many of us have is that if PSU didn't give away big 4th quarter leads in 2 of the OSU games since 2016, maybe we could have won a few more recruiting battles against them and they may not be viewed as the BEAST they are today by our fan base.

During Joe's last 10 years we had wins over them in 01, 05 & 08. Franklin should've been able to boast a similar (or better) record, but our teams seem to fall apart late in games more often than what would be considered reasonably acceptable.

ding ding ding!!! I agree and why besides losing to them I was so upset. Its a bigger picture issue. Heaven forbid we had closed out the Rose Bowl and how things might really be different.

 

[NittanySteel]

Here ya go, (years at PSU)-

Big Ten- (46-30)

-Ohio St- 1-8
-Michigan- 3-6
-Michigan St- 3-5

-Illinois- 3-2
-Northwestern- 2-2
-Iowa- 4-2
-Nebraska- 1-1
-Wisconsin- 3-0
-Maryland- 6-2
-Rutgers- 8-0
-Minnesota- 2-1
-Indiana- 7-1
-Purdue- 3-0

Non con games- (24-2)

-UCF- 1-0
-Akron- 2-0
-Umass- 1-0
-Buffalo- 2-0
-San Diego St- 1-0
-Army- 1-0
-Kent St- 2-0
-Pitt- 3-1
-Georgia St- 1-0
-App St- 1-0
-Idaho- 1-0
-Ball St- 1-0
-Auburn- 2-0
-Villanova- 1-0
-Ohio- 1-0
-Central Michigan- 1-0
-Temple- 2-1

Bowls- (3-4)

-Boston College- 1-0
-Memphis- 1-0
-Washington- 1-0
-USC- 0-1
-Georgia- 0-1
-Arkansas- 0-1
-Kentucky- 0-1

That B10 and Bowl record is....not good. 3-6 or 4-5 against OSU would be fine. 1-8 is not.

2-2 against Northwestern? 3-5 against MSU? That's terrible.

He's got the blue chip QB now in Allar. He's got Singleton at least for one more year. It's put up or shut up time.

 

[FTLPSU]

urban’s available.

The Only one who can tunr things around the quickest and with the highest PROBABILITY