I wonder what's going to happen to all of these Navy and Marine personnel

[91Joe95]

Vaccine holdouts in Navy, Marines hit 19,000 as deadline passes to comply with mandate

Officials have said that those who are unvaccinated are not deployable, underscoring the predicament ahead for unit-level commanders facing manpower challenges and senior officials responsible for setting military priorities and maintaining an adequate presence across the world.

www.adn.com

 

[Midnighter]

Vaccine holdouts in Navy, Marines hit 19,000 as deadline passes to comply with mandate

Officials have said that those who are unvaccinated are not deployable, underscoring the predicament ahead for unit-level commanders facing manpower challenges and senior officials responsible for setting military priorities and maintaining an adequate presence across the world.

www.adn.com

I'd discharge as 'General Under Honorable Conditions.' Bye.

 

[Nohow]

The resident troll again wants to drag this board into politics. He is becoming more obvious about it.

 

[91Joe95]

I'd discharge as 'General Under Honorable Conditions.' Bye.

Can they do that? I honestly don't know. While I was surprised at the overall size of the number, percentage wise it's not huge.

 

[Code_Blue]

Can they do that? I honestly don't know. While I was surprised at the overall size of the number, percentage wise it's not huge.

Well, if you dangle a "game reset" in front of that crowd, there is bound to be some who are having some buyers remorse that are going to weigh the pros and cons. I was a Marine for 10 years, and I saw guys everyday that truly were miserable and just doing their time until end of contract. This offers a "get out of jail free" type of opportunity. Add that to the folks who are truly opposed to the vaccine and you get higher than expected numbers.

 

[Midnighter]

Can they do that? I honestly don't know. While I was surprised at the overall size of the number, percentage wise it's not huge.

Sure. Why keep people around if they're non-deployable? *Everyone* in the military has to be able to deploy, even if they are non-combat types. This includes having all vaccines up to date, being in good dental/physical health, having an up to date will and relevant powers of attorneys, qualified on your weapon, etc. There are often big 'PDP's' (Pre-Deployment Processing) where they go unit by unit to get everyone ready to deploy. If you are physically injured, or pregnant, you are non-deployable and subject to discharge. Sometimes, getting pregnant and non-deployable is a relatively easy way to get out of military service - I've seen it happen. It's typically an Honorable Discharge (unless there are other circumstances). But, claiming some kind of religious/political/philosophical exemption for a vaccine isn't going to cut it. When you enlist, you assert you are willing to 'go to war' if necessary, and that means learning to shoot/kill, deploy when ready, know rules of engagement, etc. You also have to be vaccinated as required - it's not a choice (thus, the discharge). Since these folks are willingly disobeying an order to get vaccinated, I'd move past an Honorable Discharge and go with General Under Honorable. Won't hurt much, but federal employment would not happen.

And, as you've noted, it's not a ton of people (well, it is for the Marines given how small they are). Boot 'em.

 

[Midnighter]

Well, if you dangle a "game reset" in front of that crowd, there is bound to be some who are having some buyers remorse that are going to weigh the pros and cons. I was a Marine for 10 years, and I saw guys everyday that truly were miserable and just doing their time until end of contract. This offers a "get out of jail free" type of opportunity. Add that to the folks who are truly opposed to the vaccine and you get higher than expected numbers.

That is for damn sure. It's also why you see a ton of 20something enlisted types getting married despite barely knowing each other - it's a massive upgrade in quality of life for a soldier (hmm....live in the barracks, have little privacy, no yard, and a potential roommate who has never been outside of the county he grew up in, and 'barracks clean up' every Sunday night or - get a three bedroom 'home' with a yard, privacy, oh - an extra cost of living money so my life can be as normal as possible outside of the duty day).

 

[Monty2007]

Sure. Why keep people around if they're non-deployable? *Everyone* in the military has to be able to deploy, even if they are non-combat types. This includes having all vaccines up to date, being in good dental/physical health, having an up to date will and relevant powers of attorneys, qualified on your weapon, etc. There are often big 'PDP's' (Pre-Deployment Processing) where they go unit by unit to get everyone ready to deploy. If you are physically injured, or pregnant, you are non-deployable and subject to discharge. Sometimes, getting pregnant and non-deployable is a relatively easy way to get out of military service - I've seen it happen. It's typically an Honorable Discharge (unless there are other circumstances). But, claiming some kind of religious/political/philosophical exemption for a vaccine isn't going to cut it. When you enlist, you assert you are willing to 'go to war' if necessary, and that means learning to shoot/kill, deploy when ready, know rules of engagement, etc. You also have to be vaccinated as required - it's not a choice (thus, the discharge). Since these folks are willingly disobeying an order to get vaccinated, I'd move past an Honorable Discharge and go with General Under Honorable. Won't hurt much, but federal employment would not happen.

And, as you've noted, it's not a ton of people (well, it is for the Marines given how small they are). Boot 'em.

Thanks for this from a non service citizen. I would have thought that all military would always be up to date on any vaccine out there, just seemed logical.

 

[Midnighter]

Thanks for this from a non service citizen. I would have thought that all military would always be up to date on any vaccine out there, just seemed logical.

They are (or are supposed to be). Again, they check your vaccination records and tell you which ones to get. You stand in line, lift up your sleeve, and get stuck. Then move to the next line, rinse, repeat.

 

[91Joe95]

I appreciate all the replies, lots of good information I had not come across before. I've heard of honorable and dishonorable discharges, but never general under honorable conditions discharge. Interesting info about the marriage stuff too.

 

[EricStratton-RushChairman]

Within the next few months, when China invades Taiwan and Russia invades Ukraine within days of each other, this policy will be eliminated.

 

[Midnighter]

Within the next few months, when China invades Taiwan and Russia invades Ukraine within days of each other, this policy will be eliminated.

Maybe. But, potential for an outbreak in close quarters (for Marines and Sailors who travel primarily by ship) is especially high. While fatal risk of infection is low, there is a chance an unvaccinated group of Marines or Sailors could become incapacitated (fluish, groggy, etc.) and unable to perform their duties. That's not good and not productive. If and until this policy wipes out a massive percentage of warfighters (like, the Ran75th Ranger Regiment refuses and all have to be discharged), it's going to stand, your sabre rattling, end of days prognosticating notwithstanding. All these same folks go Anthrax vaccines when the threat of chemical weapons was real/imminent or thought to be (a few were discharged). But, playing politics with vaccinations has dumbed us down to the point that soldiers armed with an M4 and some Kevlar are willing to deploy and get into a gunfight with the enemy but not get a vaccine because some YouTuber told him it's a hoax is f'n unbelievable. Stunning. You think colleges are the downfall of American democracy and civilization? YouTube and social media are like - HOLD MY F'CKING BEER.

 

[nittanyfan333]

I'd discharge as 'General Under Honorable Conditions.' Bye.

yup, that's what my discharge was. Got to keep my SRB, kept my clearance until expiration, kept my veterans preference and had no restrictions on employment. Only issue was that I can no longer go reserves, but BFD.

 

[Nohow]

I appreciate all the replies, lots of good information I had not come across before. I've heard of honorable and dishonorable discharges, but never general under honorable conditions discharge. Interesting info about the marriage stuff too.

Nothing you couldn’t have learned if you wanted to with an internet search.

 

[EricStratton-RushChairman]

Maybe. But, potential for an outbreak in close quarters (for Marines and Sailors who travel primarily by ship) is especially high. While fatal risk of infection is low, there is a chance an unvaccinated group of Marines or Sailors could become incapacitated (fluish, groggy, etc.) and unable to perform their duties. That's not good and not productive. If and until this policy wipes out a massive percentage of warfighters (like, the 3rd Ranger Regiment refuses and all have to be discharged), it's going to stand, your sabre rattling, end of days prognosticating notwithstanding. All these same folks go Anthrax vaccines when the threat of chemical weapons was real/imminent or thought to be (a few were discharged). But, playing politics with vaccinations has dumbed us down to the point that soldiers armed with an M4 and some Kevlar are willing to deploy and get into a gunfight with the enemy but not get a vaccine because some YouTuber told him it's a hoax is f'n unbelievable. Stunning. You think colleges are the downfall of American democracy and civilization? YouTube and social media are like - HOLD MY F'CKING BEER.

All good point. To be honest, I am shocked so many servicemen/women are balking at this. 19,000 is a really high number which hopefully will come down quickly. My point was half serious and half TIC... I am very worried about coordinated strikes from China and Russia to test the supremely dysfunctional U.S. leadership, civilian and military. If that were to happen the need to react quickly would likely supersede covid restrictions (and BTW, the only active Ranger Regiment is the 75th... Hooah )

 

[Midnighter]

yup, that's what my discharge was. Got to keep my SRB, kept my clearance until expiration, kept my veterans preference and had no restrictions on employment. Only issue was that I can no longer go reserves, but BFD.

Same for my brother, but it hurt more because he couldn't re-enlist to another branch without an exemption (basically a member of Congress petitioning to have his discharge reclassified) and couldn't get a federal job.

 

[nittanyfan333]

and couldn't get a federal job.

interesting. i'm a current GG employee. Wonder if they changed that at some point

 

[Nohow]

All good point. To be honest, I am shocked so many servicemen/women are balking at this. 19,000 is a really high number which hopefully will come down quickly. My point was half serious and half TIC... I am very worried about coordinated strikes from China and Russia to test the supremely dysfunctional U.S. leadership, civilian and military. If that were to happen the need to react quickly would likely supersede covid restrictions (and BTW, the only active Ranger Regiment is the 75th... Hooah )

See? Politics thru the back door.

 

[Midnighter]

All good point. To be honest, I am shocked so many servicemen/women are balking at this. 19,000 is a really high number which hopefully will come down quickly. My point was half serious and half TIC... I am very worried about coordinated strikes from China and Russia to test the supremely dysfunctional U.S. leadership, civilian and military. If that were to happen the need to react quickly would likely supersede covid restrictions (and BTW, the only active Ranger Regiment is the 75th... Hooah )

Ah - I was thinking '3rd Marine Regiment' and 'Ranger Regiment' and conflated them Honestly, very happy I missed out on the Anthrax vaccine. A lot of folks I know in the Army, in my unit (I was deployed to a different place when they all went to Iraq) have had issues (mostly involving having children - either they can't, or the children born have disabilities - born without kidney, etc.). It's all political and will ruin our military and our readiness.

 

[Midnighter]

interesting. i'm a current GG employee. Wonder if they changed that at some point

Hmm....maybe it was OTH. But, I don't think so. The main issue was he wanted to enlist in the Army, but they said they couldn't take him unless the discharge was reclassified. He was Air Force and in SP, which are the worst of the worst in any branch. He f'd up with too much time on his hands and a distinct distaste for authority. The Air Force simply will not put up with it; had he joined the Army initially, no way they discharge him for a smart mouth and insubordination; at least not without making his life true hell for a while.

 

[nittanyfan333]

Hmm....maybe it was OTH. But, I don't think so. The main issue was he wanted to enlist in the Army, but they said they couldn't take him unless the discharge was reclassified. He was Air Force and in SP, which are the worst of the worst in any branch. He f'd up with too much time on his hands and a distinct distaste for authority. The Air Force simply will not put up with it; had he joined the Army initially, no way they discharge him for a smart mouth and insubordination; at least not without making his life true hell for a while.

nailed it. I was air force, then got out and have been working with the army for the past 13 years. I can't even begin to tell you how much you nailed that.

 

[Midnighter]

nailed it. I was air force, then got out and have been working with the army for the past 13 years. I can't even begin to tell you how much you nailed that.

Yeah, I was Army and saw a lot of friends at the wrong end of an Article 15. Depending on your MOS (MI, JAG, etc.), they'll reclassify you if they feel it's worth the effort (happened to a buddy of mine who went from JAG/paralegal to infantry; he wanted to stay in so he sucked it up and stuck with it). I have also been around a lot of Air Force folks. Let's just say the stereotype is real. When Army/Marine folks showed up to Bosnia, they all asked about their weapons. When the AF folks show up, they ask for refrigerators and DVD players. And they get it (along with a stipend because the barracks are substandard for AF personnel). Not kidding.

 

[Code_Blue]

All good point. To be honest, I am shocked so many servicemen/women are balking at this. 19,000 is a really high number which hopefully will come down quickly. My point was half serious and half TIC... I am very worried about coordinated strikes from China and Russia to test the supremely dysfunctional U.S. leadership, civilian and military. If that were to happen the need to react quickly would likely supersede covid restrictions (and BTW, the only active Ranger Regiment is the 75th... Hooah )

Honestly, if we end up in a conflict after a coordinated strike, there will most likely be lines out the door to enlist, As terrible as 9/11 was for our country, it offered a quick way for many americans to say FU to the aggressors.

 

[Code_Blue]

Yeah, I was Army and saw a lot of friends at the wrong end of an Article 15. Depending on your MOS (MI, JAG, etc.), they'll reclassify you if they feel it's worth the effort (happened to a buddy of mine who went from JAG/paralegal to infantry; he wanted to stay in so he sucked it up and stuck with it). I have also been around a lot of Air Force folks. Let's just say the stereotype is real. When Army/Marine folks showed up to Bosnia, they all asked about their weapons. When the AF folks show up, they ask for refrigerators and DVD players. And they get it (along with a stipend because the barracks are substandard for AF personnel). Not kidding.

OK, kind of long winded, but see if you agree. Here's the big difference between the Air Force and the Army/Marines. Congress directs both groups to build a base with an airfield. The Army/Marines go out and build a flight line, fuel dump, hangars, and all of the support structure for the base. They almost always run out of money before being finished and go back to Congress to ask for more to build housing, chow halls, px, and clubs. Congress says "We'll get back to you". The Air Force goes out and build the housing, chow halls, px, and clubs. When they go before Congress to ask for more money they also frame it as "..and we don't even have an airstrip yet". Congress almost always busts out the checkbook with exasperation and says "Get that base and flightline done!". My 2 cents.

 

[Tin man]

I'd discharge as 'General Under Honorable Conditions.' Bye.

Why honorable, they obviously don’t follow orders by their commander in chief

 

[Midnighter]

Why honorable, they obviously don’t follow orders by their commander in chief

Anything else is fairly ruinous for employment, though not 100% deal-breaking (for federal service or somewhere you are going to have a background check if they see anything other than Honorable or General Under Honorable you're mostly screwed).

 

[Midnighter]

OK, kind of long winded, but see if you agree. Here's the big difference between the Air Force and the Army/Marines. Congress directs both groups to build a base with an airfield. The Army/Marines go out and build a flight line, fuel dump, hangars, and all of the support structure for the base. They almost always run out of money before being finished and go back to Congress to ask for more to build housing, chow halls, px, and clubs. Congress says "We'll get back to you". The Air Force goes out and build the housing, chow halls, px, and clubs. When they go before Congress to ask for more money they also frame it as "..and we don't even have an airstrip yet". Congress almost always busts out the checkbook with exasperation and says "Get that base and flightline done!". My 2 cents.

Man, there is a whole ecosystem of military humor....

How to Tell the Difference Between the Branches of the US Armed Forces!

If you give the command "SECURE THE BUILDING", here is what the different services would do:

The NAVY would turn out the lights and lock the doors.

The ARMY would surround the building with defensive fortifications, tanks and concertina wire.

The MARINE CORPS would assault the building, using overlapping fields of fire from all appropriate points on the perimeter.

The AIR FORCE would take out a three-year lease with an option to buy the building.

 

[Cabinpenn]

Enlisted in the Marines and was sent to Parris Island where I received more shots and vaccinations than I can count. Didn't know a human being could ever handle that many shots. Still have indentations on both upper arms where the "air gun" was used to administer the shots. The one shot that I'll never forget is the one we got in the butt with an old fashioned needle that was pushed in so far I thought I was going to barf. Hurt like no other shot I've ever received. 3/4's of my platoon became extremely sick, throwing up, shakes, etc. for the next 24 hrs. I was never "asked" if I'd get the shots. I was told to remove my fatigue blouse or drop my drawers to have them administered. The kicker was.......the shots were all given by smirking navy corpsmen.

 

[Tom_PSU]

Enlisted in the Marines and was sent to Parris Island where I received more shots and vaccinations than I can count. Didn't know a human being could ever handle that many shots. Still have indentations on both upper arms where the "air gun" was used to administer the shots. The one shot that I'll never forget is the one we got in the butt with an old fashioned needle that was pushed in so far I thought I was going to barf. Hurt like no other shot I've ever received. 3/4's of my platoon became extremely sick, throwing up, shakes, etc. for the next 24 hrs. I was never "asked" if I'd get the shots. I was told to remove my fatigue blouse or drop my drawers to have them administered. The kicker was.......the shots were all given by smirking navy corpsmen.

I believe that was called a Gamma Globin shot, or so I remember. You had it easy, when I was in the USMC I was convinced that the corpsmen stood on the other side of the room. Then they went into a full wind up and fired that big needle at us like a 95mph fast ball.