If Rattler and Wells haven't decided by now..................
- Thread starter uscfutbol
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lol, of course not. I'm a dinosaur and not a fan of players going pro early. I wish we lived in a world of Peyton Mannings. But we don't, and never will again. I'm sure these guys are getting lots of information from a lot of different angles. No doubt they are getting input from a lot of people who have their own motives. I'd rather them take their time and make a thoughtful decision, than make a knee-jerk decision without considering all the factors. No doubt, each one is trying to get as accurate as possible estimation of their draft grade. Both are kind of fringe right now. If they were clear Round 1 or 2 picks, they'd have decided by now. As it is, I'm sure they're trying to sort though the risks/benefits. Have they maxed out their likely draft stock? How much can they reasonably expect to improve their draft stock if they come back? etc. etc. Like I said, I'm a dinosaur. I think all guys should just play all 4 years (do you think Peyton loses a wink of sleep over one missed year of NFL income?), but I've grudgingly accepted reality. At least these guys seem to be taking their time to make an informed decision.
Going pro would be a major mistake for both.
agree with what you are saying to an extent, but you can't tell me they haven't been receiving this information already. I mean you are either a draft pick or you are a free agent. Any draft expert can give them that information.
We can find other QBs and receivers. I really want them to stay as well, but this has become ridiculous..... Lets move on to players who want to be here....
We can find other QBs and receivers. I really want them to stay as well, but this has become ridiculous..... Lets move on to players who want to be here....
It's kind of immaterial right now. There are no practices or anything going on. We've already signed our QB for this class. Team-wise, it doesn't really affect much for them to take time with their decision.
I agree. But I guess, particularly in the case of Rattler, it depends on if he thinks he's maxed out his draft stock. If he doesn't think he stands to improve his position much by coming back for another year, then in his mind, there's probably not much reason to return. Add to that, he'll be working with a new OC, so that likely factors in as well. Is their value in coming back for your last year when you have to learn yet another offensive system? I don't know.
So good bye because you feel they are taking too long to make a decision that will affect them for the rest of their lives? I am sure they have you to think about! I am sure Coach Beamer feels the same way as you do. NOT!
Disagree. The portal is open and they need to know exactly what they need at what position. If Rattler leaves, we have no QB experience except the small amount that Doty has played. It could be beneficial to find a QB with some experience if needed... I do believe if a receiver is available, they of course will go after those...
We aren't taking any QBs from the portal this time around. As far as receivers, Beamer is probably looking at this irrespective of Wells' decision.
Yeah, because not every player has a dad who played 13 seasons in the NFL and is already really rich and doesn't need the money to live freely for the rest of their life if they don't go right now haha. I don't disagree with you though, I wish we did have more players that would come back to improve their draft stock and want to win the Natty. I don't knock players for going though. It is different now with NIL, but I know if you told me I can try to win a championship, or leave and make $600K-$5MM for the next 4 years plus a signing bonus that it wouldn't be a hard decision.
Again, this information has been available for a while for both of them. A team shouldn't be held "hostage" by a couple of players. It didn't take Cam Smith or Pickens this long to sort out their options.... You are either NFL material or you are not.
We're not being held hostage by anything, though. There is nothing going on with the team right now that necessitates they make up their minds. There are no practices. We're not taking a QB from the portal, no matter what Rattler's decision is. Given our TE/WR losses, Beamer is probably already looking at those options in the portal, irrespective of Wells' decision.
We agree to disagree... No problems.. However, I am not as convinced or confident as you that if rattler decided to leave they would not take a QB in the portal if the right option/fit was available
Cam Smith is almost guaranteed 1st round and Pickens no later than 3rd round.
For the guys that are 4th-7th round projections, it's not that easy.
They give grades like this: (i've accompanied with salaries and signing bonuses for reference) also link below
+
Top 10 - $4MM minimum/year - $13MM minimum signing bonus
Mid-Late First Round $2.2MM minimum/year - $6MM min signing bonus
2nd-3rd Round $900K min/year - $850 min signing bonus
4th-7th Round $725K min/year - $75K min signing bonus (also, you could not be drafted at all)
Now consider the difference:
Pickens (2nd-3rd round grade) minimum $850K for signing a contract + minimum $900K/year (1st pick of 2nd round $4MM signing bonus and $1.7MM/yr contract)
Rattler (4th-7th round grade) assume he goes 10th pick 6th round but scouts told him go back to USC and do it again and you could catapult into the 2nd or 1st.
2023 draft 6th round 10th pick $751K/yr salary and $185K signing bonus - leaves this year
2024 draft 2nd round 10th pick - $1.5MM/yr salary and $3.5MM signing bonus - buttt he could potentially do worse and drop it.
That is not an easy decision of I'm NFL talent or not. What an ignorant thing to say.
Yea, Im not reading all that. They have had people do all that math for them all year. They know those numbers inside and out, and have known them for awhile. Again we disagree, nothing wrong with that. I did read your last sentence however.... Nice.......
I wouldn't consider staying committed to USC a "knee jerk decision." IMHO
Nor would I. I was thinking more of making a knee-jerk decision to declare for the draft, but didn't make that clear.
The confounding factor for Rattler is that he would probably grade out well at the combine. As far as pure arm talent goes, there aren't many better.
Rattler and Wells will make their decisions on their time lines. I'll just wait for them to make those decisions.
They have until January 16th to declare.
All underclassmen must declare for the 2023 Draft by applying for Special Eligibility by January 16, 2023. The NFL will then announce a full list of underclassmen that have declared for the 2023 NFL Draft and meet the criteria on January 20, 2023.
All underclassmen must declare for the 2023 Draft by applying for Special Eligibility by January 16, 2023. The NFL will then announce a full list of underclassmen that have declared for the 2023 NFL Draft and meet the criteria on January 20, 2023.
Yeah, at this point, it doesn't impact any decisions Beamer needs to make.
lol "not reading all that" but have the nerve to comment on a guy's future that could be a difference of $20MM over 4 years and act like it's a snap of the finger.
Ha, well, that's a factor as well about Manning.
Mainly, I've never supported guys going pro early because it only makes us weaker as team. We aren't a Bama or UGA that is 3 deep with 4* and 5* at every position. They can plug and play. We cannot. Not even close. We NEED our best talent to stay as long as possible. Some have argued that it looks good to recruits for you to get players to the NFL early. So far, we haven't seemed to reap any benefits of it.
I am solely a USC Gamecocks fan. I want us to field the best team possible every year. That possibility will never come to fruition with our best players leaving early.
fair enough, I just try to look at it as if it were me in their situation and with a realistic outlook. Hopefully we can get something going with NIL to keep some of the players around, rather than them leaving early. It's just the reality of it. Players leave the best schools early and always will for the $$ and the dream. Hopefully Beamer and Co. can keep it going on the recruiting trail and get us there through recruiting. I really believe with the Oline and D Line class we have coming in, if we can continue recruiting there, we can get to a top 10 competitive level.
Well - he had better have more than 4-5 good games per year in order to be in the talks of 20million. He isn't a 20 million (top 3 round pick right now obviously).
Yes he has NFL arm talent. No matter if it's 2.2 or 22.2 million - he will get that number cut in half with taxes/agent, insurance, etc...so his "future" better be getting more consistent and better at football, and quick. He wasn't too far from losing his job a second time in two years about a month and a half ago.
My personal opinion...he has NFL arm talent, but does not have anything close to NFL eyes or pocket awareness...which you can improve upon with another year of college ball and off season work. Gives him his best chance at that 20 million talk....no matter when it may come.
He definitely stands to benefit more by coming back. Worst case scenario, he's no better next year and still ends up as a mid-to-late round pick. In that case, he won't have lost much financially by coming back a year. If he can bump himself up a round or two, though, he stands to gain a great deal financially.
look dude, we disagree.... No need in throwing insults or degrading someone for a difference of opinion.
I've seen all those numbers before, we all have.... and we have heard this stuff over and over.
Im just saying in my opinion it shouldn't take this long to make this decision.... In my lifetime (58), I have had to make decisions about my children, my career, my health and family members health, and my families best interest, in a matter of moments or days. And usually I know immediately what is the best decision, and have been lucky to be right most of the time. Im not angry at them, Im not mad at anyone, I just believe this decision of go or stay should have already been made.
So keep being a smart *** and act like you know everything and anyone with a difference of opinion is beneath you and knows nothing.
lol don't throw insults and then you insult me. How many decisions have you had to make that are worth $20MM? Does everyone have to be exactly like you and always quickly make decisions? Are those players not entitled to their difference in opinion from you? Guess not. They must be beneath you since they can't make an instant decision.
I don't think he was ever in jeopardy of losing his job again, however I don't disagree with most of what you are saying. I think it would benefit him to come back, however, he may think in the back of his head "3 OCs in 3 years, how will I adapt this time?" "Will it actually make me a better player to come back or will I sputter for part of the season and waste a year of making more money with NFL coaches and talent around me making me better?"
I didn't comment one way or the other in the comment you replied to. My point to @uscfutbol is that it is a difficult decision that requires research and conversation with experts, coaches, and family that shouldn't be made quickly. Things have change since 2.5 months ago, therefore the input he is hearing about his NFL future most certainly have as well.
and you keep proving my point.......
By the way, someones life is worth way more than 20m. Hope you never have to make that call...
Excuse me - I definitely did not infer were cryptically speaking of being the PoA on someone's life.
You're right, I'm wrong. These guys should have an answer in their back pocket and pull it out immediately because that's what Buddy @uscfutbol says! Rattler and Juice, if you're reading this, tell us now!!!
now you're talking....... Enjoyed the conversation. Wish you well in the new year
You haven't given anything specific about why Beamer needs to know NOW whether Rattler and Wells are coming back?
Given the current situation, what would it change for Beamer to have that info? We've already recruited our class for the most part. We aren't practicing. Their decisions won't affect what we pursue portal-wise.
This kind of reminds me of fans who were complaining to the high heavens that Beamer remained at OU to finish out their season after he was hired here, even though recruiting was virtual and there was no need for him to physically be here at the time.
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By all accounts, the offensive system that Loggains will be running (with lots of input from Beamer), will be much simpler than the complex, verbose, complicated scheme/play book used by Satterfield. Rattler will have all spring, summer, and fall to learn a simpler system designed around his talent/skills.
Yeah, that's the hope. I guess it's up to Loggains to convince Rattler it'll be an easy transition.
Anon1672846112
New member
I did.... But for some reason it was posted under the account listed above. I have no idea as to how that happended..
"Disagree. The portal is open and they need to know exactly what they need at what position. If Rattler leaves, we have no QB experience except the small amount that Doty has played. It could be beneficial to find a QB with some experience if needed... I do believe if a receiver is available, they of course will go after those..."
And nothing guarantees them that they won't get cut. The later in the draft you go, the lower the commitment from the team that selects you.
A player entering the draft as a later rd pick, could be out of work by the end of the year.
also..
this would be the reason I think Beamer should know... Again, Im not sure they would look in the portal, but I have no idea what they would be thinking if this were to occur..
We agree to disagree... No problems.. However, I am not as convinced or confident as you that if rattler decided to leave they would not take a QB in the portal if the right option/fit was available
this would be the reason I think Beamer should know... Again, Im not sure they would look in the portal, but I have no idea what they would be thinking if this were to occur..
The portal is irrelevant though. We're not taking a QB from the portal. No chance. We only took Rattler because he fell in our laps. Given the hit we've taken at the TE/WR position, Beamer is likely already likely looking at the portal, irrespective of Wells' decision.
Their decisions just have no immediate impact on what we're doing.
again, we disagree. I think the portal could be relevant if he left. You don't... Thats fine.... You are convinced there is no way they take a QB. Im not, if the right situation comes about. You never know who could "fall in our lap" this year if the need should arise...