If you like the Mississippi Braves, better see them in 2024.

[OG Goat Holder]

Just to clear up some misinformation about this situation and TM Park in particular, please note:

TM Park is privately owned. The stadium is not owned by any public entity. The debt on the stadium is government backed, but the ownership of the stadium is private. The majority of the government backed debt will be satisfied in 2024. Everyone forgets that the stadium is 20 years old. Time flies.

There are 89 minor league stadia in the United States. 88 of 89 are owned by governmental entities. TM Park is the only minor league stadium in the country that is privately owned.

The new owner of the AA braves franchise is Endeavor, formerly known as IMG, formerly known as William Morris Agency. Look up Endeavor's financials. Multi-billion dollar behemoth. They now own or control more than half of minor league franchises in the country and they are adding more every day. They are in the entertainment business. They are looking for cheap venues that they do not own, do not maintain, do not upkeep, do not improve, do not retrofit, do not conform to major league standards or requirements, do not conform to federal accessibility laws, do not retrofit to provide gender neutral facilities, do not conform to account for female umpires/players, do not pay taxes on, do not debt service, do not pave the parking lot .... getting the picture?

Endeavor is capable of playing major league hardball while the privately owned venue in Pearl is struggling to play double A ball. Not a fair fight. Endeavor is spoiled because they have lease arrangements with governments in every other city where their teams play and those lease arrangements are exactly what one should expect from a publicly owned stadium. Endeavor will win either by cramming a really bad lease renewal down the private owner's throat or moving the team. The problem in Pearl is that the stadium is privately owned and the ROI is not there at the lease numbers that Endeavor demands.

The solution is a hard one. TM Park needs to be publicly owned in order to be competitive and attract a quality product. Private stadium ownership simply does not work long term and will never work for more than just a few years.

Doesn't Purrl have to pay a certain amount annually to make up the shortfall? Like 950K or something...

Guess there's no way they will continue to do that.

 

[Shmuley]

Doesn't Purrl have to pay a certain amount annually to make up the shortfall? Like 950K or something...

Guess there's no way they will continue to do that.

They've been supplementing the sales tax revenue generated within the defined taxing district that is pledged to support the debt service on particular bonded indebtedness. The sales tax revenue has not kept pace with the debt service requirement. The commitment to make supplemental payments was made in 2003 under leadership in place at that time. Unless political leadership can figure out a way to take the stadium ownership public, there is no other way for minor league baseball to remain at TM Park. Bear in mind, we are approaching a situation where one behemoth company literally owns every AA franchise in the country. That company will literally control the terms of every stadium lease in the entire country. There will be no other option than to play that company's lease game.

 

[rynodawg]

View attachment 489609

Nah, Huntsville did fine.

MiLB is just a novelty attraction that relies on a heavy and growing upper middle class to remain sustainable. Huntsville has that, and the most concentrated upper middle class area (Madison) is where they built the stadium.

Birmingham did the same thing by building close to Homewood / Mountain Brook, and not asking those folks to drive all the way out past the 459 loop to attend games.

The Jackson metro does not have that upper middle class consolidation. That income segment isn’t growing there, and that’s the problem.

ETA: RCTP also outdrew the Barons in attendance by over 25% in 2023, 4911 to 3825 in terms of average attendance. A lot of that is simply that there’s a little bit more to do in Birmingham that the team has to compete with, but its really silly to say Huntsville / Madison made a poor choice in the stadium location.

I prefer the downtown stadiums like Birmingham, but agree that the Huntsville stadium is in an OK spot. It’s right off the main highway, in between Huntsville and its largest suburb. A problem with the Pearl location is it’s not convenient for the Madison County crowd. Had they built up in Madison, it would have had poor attendance from Rankin residents.

It is becoming a really bad deal for cities to pay for these stadiums. You can only expect to keep these teams for 15-20 years until the locals lose interest and they go looking for the next brand new stadium. Pearl would not be able to replace them with an A level team because those teams don’t typically travel that far. Chattanooga’s stadium is pretty old too, but doubt anyone would want to relocate to the location w the 2nd lowest attendance.

 

[rynodawg]

Just to clear up some misinformation about this situation and TM Park in particular, please note:

TM Park is privately owned. The stadium is not owned by any public entity. The debt on the stadium is government backed, but the ownership of the stadium is private. The majority of the government backed debt will be satisfied in 2024. Everyone forgets that the stadium is 20 years old. Time flies.

There are 89 minor league stadia in the United States. 88 of 89 are owned by governmental entities. TM Park is the only minor league stadium in the country that is privately owned.

The new owner of the AA braves franchise is Endeavor, formerly known as IMG, formerly known as William Morris Agency. Look up Endeavor's financials. Multi-billion dollar behemoth. They now own or control more than half of minor league franchises in the country and they are adding more every day. They are in the entertainment business. They are looking for cheap venues that they do not own, do not maintain, do not upkeep, do not improve, do not retrofit, do not conform to major league standards or requirements, do not conform to federal accessibility laws, do not retrofit to provide gender neutral facilities, do not conform to account for female umpires/players, do not pay taxes on, do not debt service, do not pave the parking lot .... getting the picture?

Endeavor is capable of playing major league hardball while the privately owned venue in Pearl is struggling to play double A ball. Not a fair fight. Endeavor is spoiled because they have lease arrangements with governments in every other city where their teams play and those lease arrangements are exactly what one should expect from a publicly owned stadium. Endeavor will win either by cramming a really bad lease renewal down the private owner's throat or moving the team. The problem in Pearl is that the stadium is privately owned and the ROI is not there at the lease numbers that Endeavor demands.

The solution is a hard one. TM Park needs to be publicly owned in order to be competitive and attract a quality product. Private stadium ownership simply does not work long term and will never work for more than just a few years.

I think Endeavor sold the Diamond Baseball Holdings entity last year to a private company (Silver Lake), but same difference. You’re correct a single company will control the majority of minor league teams. Who owns TM stadium then? The same developer of the Outlets?

DBH also owns the Rome Braves, who are re-branding the mascot this year. The fact that the M-Braves aren’t also re-branding might be a clue that this move is indeed in the works.

 

[Maroon Pug]

Huntsville screwed up by building their new stadium out in the suburbs too.

Tell me you know nothing about HSV without saying you know nothing about HSV...

 

[OG Goat Holder]

All this is spot on, expect I saw Jxn's death spiral coming in the 90s.

The stadium was key in getting Bass Pro, Sams, other developments and the Outlet Mall. It has likely has been a net win for Purl. It is still in good shape and has a lot of life, and can likely be used for different events in the future, location is good with a lot of room, but no direct interstate access.

Several things hurt attendance, having two of the most popular and successful college teams in the state (with a 3rd successful team) certainly takes attention away from the Braves. Additionally the MS Braves did very little outlook or promotion. The MS Braves are not owned by the ATL Braves.

As others have stated, if the Braves can't make it here, no franchise will. Maybe a summer league for college players could make it?

We all know about Jackson's death spiral. No one is disputing that.

The idea here is IF the METRO (not just the City of Jackson) could ever make a baseball stadium work, it would be downtown, with patrons from all over the Metro coming to watch a game and enjoy downtown (assuming some development popped up around it. Ideally, it's the Braves, Cardinals, Astros or Rangers. Some suburban stadium in Rankin or Madison Counties is just a short-term money grab.

And ideally, this 'development' around the stadium could have river access, and be mutually supported by the state, CCID and Jackson.

I get that it will probably never happen, but one thing is certain, we should never build another stadium in the suburbs again. And for all intents and purposes, Smith-Wills is essentially in a suburban area with no walkability. To me, the ideal location is between Jefferson, Pascagoula and I-55.

I bet you and peeper love some Amerigo's.

 

[BoDawg.sixpack]

TM Park is privately owned. The stadium is not owned by any public entity. The debt on the stadium is government backed, but the ownership of the stadium is private. The majority of the government backed debt will be satisfied in 2024. Everyone forgets that the stadium is 20 years old. Time flies.

There are 89 minor league stadia in the United States. 88 of 89 are owned by governmental entities. TM Park is the only minor league stadium in the country that is privately owned.

So now I'm curious why the private ownership, whoever that may, thought it was a reasonable investment to make in TP given that 98.9% of minor league parks are owned by the gov.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Tell me you know nothing about HSV without saying you know nothing about HSV...

I know a lot more than you regarding this. A lot.

Obviously, you're a HSV resident and you all tend to get butthurt when anybody says anything other than "it's heaven on earth". But I'm not criticizing it, you see. So please, enjoy the stadium while it's new and shiny. What happens 15 years from now is not your concern anyway, and you can't do anything about it anyway.

There have been multiple questionable planning decisions made in HSV, throughout its history. But those are overshadowed by the very many good decisions that were made.

 

[AlCoDog]

Looks like they’re heading to Columbus GA when their stadium lease is up after next season. City of Pearl has been losing money on that stadium ever since it was built & it’s about to get worse.

They should turn it into a Top Golf. The new one in Memphis is kicking ***. Literally.

 

[rynodawg]

So now I'm curious why the private ownership, whoever that may, thought it was a reasonable investment to make in TP given that 98.9% of minor league parks are owned by the gov.

Seems incredibly short sighted for sure. They knew someday they would need to re-negotiate to keep a professional team, and all of their competition are municipalities that are fine operating at a loss in order to support their downtowns.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

They've been supplementing the sales tax revenue generated within the defined taxing district that is pledged to support the debt service on particular bonded indebtedness. The sales tax revenue has not kept pace with the debt service requirement. The commitment to make supplemental payments was made in 2003 under leadership in place at that time. Unless political leadership can figure out a way to take the stadium ownership public, there is no other way for minor league baseball to remain at TM Park. Bear in mind, we are approaching a situation where one behemoth company literally owns every AA franchise in the country. That company will literally control the terms of every stadium lease in the entire country. There will be no other option than to play that company's lease game.

So, from searching and what I remember, the reason those bonds were issued were so Pearl could pay 28M for the stadium. How did this group 'Bloomfield Equities, LLC' get it? Or maybe that was just a subsidy.

Do they have plans for it post-Braves? Because you have to think they saw this coming, Braves have a history of it.

 

[Shmuley]

So, from searching and what I remember, the reason those bonds were issued were so Pearl could pay 28M for the stadium. How did this group 'Bloomfield Equities, LLC' get it? Or maybe that was just a subsidy.

Do they have plans for it post-Braves? Because you have to think they saw this coming, Braves have a history of it.

BE is background entity controlled by a significant corporate entity with ties to the entire development, not just the stadium. The stadium was built by the developer and financed, in part, through the government backed obligations. The stadium has never been publicly owned. The developer never intended to own the stadium longer than the bond terms. But the deal never produced at the level anticipated and off-loading became problematic. Even really smart and sophisticated business people can get fever and make what appear upon reflection to be bad investments.

 

[beachbumdawg]

And Birmingham's stadium is not "by Homewood and Mountain Brook". It's smack dab in the middle of the downtown grid, in an area that was considered dangerous 20 years ago. Downtowns are close to everything, that's why stadiums should be built there.

I work downtown Birmingham - it is still dangerous in that area

not as bad of an area as Rickwood but still plenty of **** going down

 

[Tall Dawg]

Come on down St Louis Cardinals!
Lot of Red Bird fans in this area including me.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Its only 7 years newer than Regions Field. You also say “get back to me in 15 years” without mentioning that the Stars made it in Joe Davis, an outdated 80’s stadium in a pretty suboptimal location….for 3 decades. Again, it’s a per capita income / local economy situation for these teams that drives everything.

By the way, Joe Davis has been renovated / repurposed into a multi-use facility that now serves as the home stadium for Huntsville City FC, the reserve team for Nashville’s MLS team. This past year, they averaged 4,600 fans per game. That’s also more than the M-Braves…..and the Barons. For minor league 17ing soccer in the South. Is that possible in Jackson?


It absolutely matters. Build new big 17ing thing as close to as many people with money as you can. Madison, AL has 60,000 residents with a median family income of $111,000 per year. Just for comparison, Madison, MS - by far the most affluent area of the Jackson MSA, has 27,000 residents with a median family income of $77,000. Huge gap there. Its not hard at all to figure this out.


Are you telling me that Homewood and Mountain Brook (and to a lesser extent, Vestavia) aren’t both far, far closer to downtown than they are to the Hoover Met? Its not even close.


They sometimes are and sometimes are not. In Birmingham it certainly made sense for a variety of reasons. Perhaps due to the “dangerous area 20 years ago”, the real estate cost wasn’t too high. And the most concentrated wealth in the area is still closer to downtown than it is out in the suburbs. Huntsville is a very different city as to how it developed, as is Jackson. There is no one-size-fits all approach here.

For the sake of clarity

2024 Compare Cities Overview: Madison, AL vs Madison, MS

Best Places to Live | Compare cost of living, crime, cities, schools and more.

www.bestplaces.net

 

[RockyDog]

Come on down St Louis Cardinals!
Lot of Red Bird fans in this area including me.

Does that even matter though? They’d be renamed some dumb name like the Purl Trash Hillbillies and all the Cards players would still do their rehab stints in Memphis.

AA ball just isn’t the same as it was back 20-30-40 years ago.

 

[Darryl Steight]

For the sake of clarity

2024 Compare Cities Overview: Madison, AL vs Madison, MS

Best Places to Live | Compare cost of living, crime, cities, schools and more.

www.bestplaces.net

Wow, Madison MS median income higher on this chart. A little surprised by that.

 

[Mr. Cook]

-Jackson needs A LOT.
-Jackson doesn't deserve a damn thing except what they get every day for re-electing and appointing the same idiots year after year.
-Jackson can't support themselves. Jackson can't support a mall anymore. Jackson can't support a movie theater anymore. What makes you think somebody will support and drive to downtown Jackson, park their car there and walk back and forth to it at a 3rd stadium in the metro? And no I'm not an outsider looking in, I lived there for 19 years until I saw the writing on the wall and got out in 2014

The same thing can be said for Mississippi.********

 

[GhostOfJackie]

All that said, Jackson needs, deserves, and can support a minor league team. Baseball is popular there. Stadium just needs to be in the right spot. Huntsville screwed up by building their new stadium out in the suburbs too. You could even go further and say the Cobb County Braves stadium was a bad idea long term, but in a city as big as Atlanta, it tends to matter less. Birmingham got it right, and that area has flourished due to it. Pensacola did it right too, incorporating their natural strengths, even if not 100% downtown. Autozone in Memphis is 24 years old now, you don't see them losing their teams.

I agree with you, but we all know the Braves would have left 10 years ago if the City of Jackson owned that stadium. The City of Jackson would screw up a wet dream given the opportunity.

I hate this for the good folks in the Jackson metro, but the rest of the state has already given up. Tupelo, Hattiesburg, the Gulf Coast, and Southaven are now the areas moving the needle in MS.

 

[Perd Hapley]

They built that stadium there in Madison because they had the land to do it. Went cheap, instead of doing it downtown where it should have been. I'm very familiar with this development.

I do agree that Huntsville has a better situation than Jackson, for middle-class spending. And yes I know all about Joe Davis and their soccer. It too, would have been better downtown but, they used existing resources, understandable.

You don’t seem to be too familiar with it.

The big selling point in Madison wasn’t the stadium, it was everything else that could be developed around it. They didn’t do it like Pearl where you have a giant outlet mall and a giant outdoor store nearby. Those two things that really don’t jive or correlate with baseball attendance at all. Toyota Field was surrounded by mixed use apartment / condos - which provides a huge base of young singles or unmarried couples who could attend games without even getting in their car. Add into that over a dozen bars and restaurants for pre-game or post-game meals or cocktails. None of that would be possible in downtown Huntsville - while accounting for parking, logistics. Downtown Huntsville is nice and has improved a lot in the past 20 years, but its scale is nowhere close to Birmingham, Montgomery, Chattanooga, or even Jackson….and it never will be. There just isn’t much room for a stadium there when considering everything that goes into it.

The other point you’re missing is that nobody goes out of their way to attend MiLB games. Nobody. Probably half the people in the stadium on any given weeknight don’t even pay for tickets….they get them free through their work or church. Building in Madison made it pretty damn easy for all the employees at the Arsenal and Research Park contractors (over 50,000 of them) to just head straight to the stadium after leaving the office, or head home and pick up the family if they lived in Madison. They wouldn’t have that option in downtown Huntsville….wouldn’t be nearly as convenient.

 

[Perd Hapley]

For the sake of clarity

2024 Compare Cities Overview: Madison, AL vs Madison, MS

Best Places to Live | Compare cost of living, crime, cities, schools and more.

www.bestplaces.net

Sounds like someone needs to update the Madison, MS wikipedia page. Thats where my numbers came from.

Regardless, its roughly the same between the two Madisons, except the Alabama version has over double the population. If you doubled the population of Madison MS with the same type of people that currently live there, where do you think EVERYTHING good that ever came to the Jackson MSA would be built?

 

[Duke Humphrey]

This post from JJ was from 2016 and references a larger article from Bloomberg

<i>Bloomberg</i>: How the Braves fleeced Pearl

Was Pearl yet another city that fell for another pitch of baseball and bright lights only to later regret the decision? Were then-Mayor Jim...

kingfish1935.blogspot.com

 

[thatsbaseball]

Sounds like someone needs to update the Madison, MS wikipedia page. Thats where my numbers came from.

Regardless, its roughly the same between the two Madisons, except the Alabama version has over double the population. If you doubled the population of Madison MS with the same type of people that currently live there, where do you think EVERYTHING good that ever came to the Jackson MSA would be built?

Well there is Mayor Mary to deal with in Madison, Ms. **

 

[Perd Hapley]

Well there is Mayor Mary to deal with in Madison, Ms. **

True. Although I do find it quite humorous the reputation she’s gotten for doing nothing more than what is very standard as far as building codes and zoning regulations for high end suburbs across the entire country. I guess it seems weird since Madison is the only such suburb in the entire state….and a very big part of it (if not the entirety of it) is due to her influence. You don’t get to be a mayor for 42 years straight if you suck at it.

It would be interesting to see how she’d apply the building restrictions to a AA baseball stadium. The amount of brick on the exterior would certainly drive up the construction cost.

 

[thatsbaseball]

True. Although I do find it quite humorous the reputation she’s gotten for doing nothing more than what is very standard as far as building codes and zoning regulations for high end suburbs across the entire country. I guess it seems weird since Madison is the only such suburb in the entire state….and a very big part of it (if not the entirety of it) is due to her influence. You don’t get to be a mayor for 42 years straight if you suck at it.

It would be interesting to see how she’d apply the building restrictions to a AA baseball stadium. The amount of brick on the exterior would certainly drive up the construction cost.

Well as they say here in Madison "She's a bitsh but she's our bitsh."

 

[RocketDawg]

Whatever happened to the consolidation of a bunch of MiLB parks back during COVID? Did that happen? I always figured minor league was losing popularity.

Either way, now the Jackson Metro is going to have two decaying stadiums. Excellent planning, guys. We all knew this was going to happen eventually, that's what the Braves do. If they ever go down this rabbit hole again, please put the stadium downtown, or at least somewhere along the River. It's not rocket science.

Here, when the Huntsville Stars went to Biloxi, their stadium sat empty for several years. Plans were to demolish it. But now, it's been refurbed and is used for professional soccer, lacrosse, high school football, and maybe some other sports. Just announced was a hotel overlooking the stadium, along with the ubiquitous "mixed use" apartment/retal complex. When the Mobile team moved here a couple years ago, they built a new stadium (not downtown) that's also multi-use. So those old stadiums can be put to good use.

 

[RocketDawg]

Belhaven. Long term, worst case is it sits like Smith-Wills. Best case is turning into some youth sports area like Hoover did with their crappy suburban stadium, but I doubt that works, because Pearl just built a bunch of turf fields, and truth be known, that's just a saturated market right now, every town has them. So pretty much screwed.

All that said, Jackson needs, deserves, and can support a minor league team. Baseball is popular there. Stadium just needs to be in the right spot. Huntsville screwed up by building their new stadium out in the suburbs too. You could even go further and say the Cobb County Braves stadium was a bad idea long term, but in a city as big as Atlanta, it tends to matter less. Birmingham got it right, and that area has flourished due to it. Pensacola did it right too, incorporating their natural strengths, even if not 100% downtown. Autozone in Memphis is 24 years old now, you don't see them losing their teams.

I don't think so. I never saw the attraction of a downtown stadium, plus the location of Toyota Stadium is, in my opinion, ideal. It not only draws Huntsville folks, but Madison is adjacent, and it's a 20 minute drive from Decatur and maybe 25 from Athens. Very convenient for the entire area, not to mention the sprawling Town Madison complex. If it were downtown, parking would be at a premium (probably in a parking garage) and there's just not enough room downtown for a stadium of any kind. The downtown area is quite small in area and there was no place to put it that was even remotely convenient, plus there were other, more profitable uses for what land was available (hotels and apartments/mixed use).

 

[RocketDawg]

I’m not so sure about this one. At least not yet. We will see how it all plays out but I did notice tanger bought the bridge street town center which is nearby. To your point though, the havoc sure have done good at the von Braun

The Trash Pandas are still "new", so it'll be interesting to see how things go in the coming years. But attendance now is very good. There's a lots of things around the stadium as well - lots of apartments and restaurants, so it's not like it's out in the middle of nowhere.

Tanger bought Bridge Street, but it's not going to be turned into an outlet mall. It'll continue to be an outdoor "lifestyle" center with upscale stores.

The Havoc are doing quite well and so did the UAH Hockey team until they quit playing. Just cost too much. Probably their big mistake was trying to go to Division I hockey and they couldn't compete. Div II was the answer for a small (especially southern) university, and attendance was good before the attempted move back to Div I. It was resurrected for a while a few years ago, but once again was eliminated.

 

[8dog]

This post from JJ was from 2016 and references a larger article from Bloomberg

<i>Bloomberg</i>: How the Braves fleeced Pearl

Was Pearl yet another city that fell for another pitch of baseball and bright lights only to later regret the decision? Were then-Mayor Jim...

kingfish1935.blogspot.com

Tim Bennett …mercy.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

Belhaven. Long term, worst case is it sits like Smith-Wills. Best case is turning into some youth sports area like Hoover did with their crappy suburban stadium, but I doubt that works, because Pearl just built a bunch of turf fields, and truth be known, that's just a saturated market right now, every town has them. So pretty much screwed.

All that said, Jackson needs, deserves, and can support a minor league team. Baseball is popular there. Stadium just needs to be in the right spot. Huntsville screwed up by building their new stadium out in the suburbs too. You could even go further and say the Cobb County Braves stadium was a bad idea long term, but in a city as big as Atlanta, it tends to matter less. Birmingham got it right, and that area has flourished due to it. Pensacola did it right too, incorporating their natural strengths, even if not 100% downtown. Autozone in Memphis is 24 years old now, you don't see them losing their teams.

All those places have more money than Jackso/pearl does. The reason that it's in the suburbs is Jackson can't support it. Huntsville built in a very healthy area. It's not going anywhere any time soon. Another team may move in to trustmark. It wouldn't surprise me.

 

[RocketDawg]

Tell me you know nothing about HSV without saying you know nothing about HSV...

Possibly just hasn't been in the area in a while. It's much different than it was just 5 years ago.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

Stop. Don't be the typical MS murrican idiot.

I'm talking about the whole Jackson Metro, and all the people in it. Baseball is popular in Central MS, and a big portion of the people don't drive to Starkville or Oxford to watch those teams.

And yes, I absolutely think people will drive to Jackson to watch the baseball game. If located in the right place, with the CCID, it would be transformational.

I want to see if the breweries and distilleries survive. The infrastructure in Jackson and support of city is going to keep a lot of development away. If you could sink you business money into Clinton, Flowood, Madison, Bryan, Brandon, pearl, or downtown Jackson where do you expect the most return for your money and feel like your investment is not going to encounter a ton of problems with crime, infrastructure, support, politics.

 

[RocketDawg]

I know a lot more than you regarding this. A lot.

Obviously, you're a HSV resident and you all tend to get butthurt when anybody says anything other than "it's heaven on earth". But I'm not criticizing it, you see. So please, enjoy the stadium while it's new and shiny. What happens 15 years from now is not your concern anyway, and you can't do anything about it anyway.

There have been multiple questionable planning decisions made in HSV, throughout its history. But those are overshadowed by the very many good decisions that were made.

That's true. When the "new" wears off in 15-20 years, maybe even sooner, there's no telling what will happen. The B'ham Barons and the Montgomery Biscuits have hung around for a long time, but they're the exception rather than the rule. So who knows. But so far, so good.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

I wonder how much of that was due to the awful location, i.e. in the middle of an asphalt sea with nothing really to do around it, or at least that anyone wants to do.

Biloxi, I can't explain, except that I'm not sure the population is there for a team. But they did get new ownership, so maybe that will help.

The summer heat is what kills attendance. It's more of a tourist attraction at the double A level. Not many people are going to go sit 100 plus for baseball in June/July when they can go to the casino where it's climate controlled. Too much other stuff to do. Rangers were smart when they built their new place. Braves should have done the same

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

I don’t know how anyone sustains a minor league team outside of a major city anymore in 2023. You would need a significant entertainment district to make it work.

New Orleans couldn't hold on to their team either.
College ball works better in southern states because it's more a fan/alumni attachment and the season is over at home before it's really hot.

 

[RocketDawg]

I work downtown Birmingham - it is still dangerous in that area

not as bad of an area as Rickwood but still plenty of **** going down

Fewer homicides than last year, but last year was a record. Seems like you hear about people in Birmingham being shot daily. The area around the Barons stadium has been rebuilt so it's safer than it once was. Top Golf and the new UAB football stadium has helped a lot, as well as ALDOT spending a ton of money there. And with the new football stadium open- why is the city still keeping Legion Field open? Seems like a money pit.

 

[AstroDog]

View attachment 489609

Nah, Huntsville did fine.

MiLB is just a novelty attraction that relies on a heavy and growing upper middle class to remain sustainable. Huntsville has that, and the most concentrated upper middle class area (Madison) is where they built the stadium.

Birmingham did the same thing by building close to Homewood / Mountain Brook, and not asking those folks to drive all the way out past the 459 loop to attend games.

The Jackson metro does not have that upper middle class consolidation. That income segment isn’t growing there, and that’s the problem.

ETA: RCTP also outdrew the Barons in attendance by over 25% in 2023, 4911 to 3825 in terms of average attendance. A lot of that is simply that there’s a little bit more to do in Birmingham that the team has to compete with, but its really silly to say Huntsville / Madison made a poor choice in the stadium location.

Have been to a Trash Panda's game. I love the location. Just west of downtown Huntsville near the airport and in a real nice area. Top golf real close by too. Lots of good stuff out there.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

It's a brand new shiny toy. Of course it's going to be popular right now, just like Pearl was when it opened. Get back with me in 15 years. I was around when the games were at Joe Davis, and it got so bad they moved the team to Biloxi. Thirsty Thursday power drinking was about the only ways to get people there.

Location matters. Suburban, soulless stuff has a shelf life. It's apparent to me that many of you simply have tunnel vision or haven't been around long enough to see the lifespan of a lot of developments.

ETA: It's silly to say Jackson doesn't have the middle class to support a team. And Birmingham's stadium is not "by Homewood and Mountain Brook". It's smack dab in the middle of the downtown grid, in an area that was considered dangerous 20 years ago. Downtowns are close to everything, that's why stadiums should be built there.

Memphis has FedEx and Beale street right there.

most towns and development don't do well at sustainability 20 years is a good run for a lot of development. Look at the different malls in Jackson or any city for that matter. Most of the time they get run down and instead of remodeling revamping that area and cleaning up the crime. They just find new ground and start over. They feel it's easier to start new development elsewhere on new ground than to fix up what they have and surrounding area. As far as Jackson you could sink billions into a development and it would be like putting your money in a blackhole

 

[Darryl Steight]

True. Although I do find it quite humorous the reputation she’s gotten for doing nothing more than what is very standard as far as building codes and zoning regulations for high end suburbs across the entire country. I guess it seems weird since Madison is the only such suburb in the entire state….and a very big part of it (if not the entirety of it) is due to her influence. You don’t get to be a mayor for 42 years straight if you suck at it.

It would be interesting to see how she’d apply the building restrictions to a AA baseball stadium. The amount of brick on the exterior would certainly drive up the construction cost.

Eh, you could theoretically keep getting elected by threatening anyone who runs against you, running campaigns like "keep our city safe, keep the riffraff out, keep everything the same as it has been since the '80's", thereby keeping lots of 'unwanted' retail and restaurants and businesses out of your town and allowing municipalities to the north and south to capture growth and tax revenue, while quietly throttling the future of your own community by missing out on those sales and ad valorem taxes, deferring maintenance, refusing strategic thinking and continually kicking the can down the road when it comes to incremental increases in property taxes, despite an undercurrent of the town being on the precipice of woeful underfunding for police, street infrastructure, and longterm growth... I'm just saying, I could see a scenario where that could happen.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Eh, you could theoretically keep getting elected by threatening anyone who runs against you, running campaigns like "keep our city safe, keep the riffraff out, keep everything the same as it has been since the '80's", thereby keeping lots of 'unwanted' retail and restaurants and businesses out of your town and allowing municipalities to the north and south to capture growth and tax revenue, while quietly throttling the future of your own community by missing out on those sales and ad valorem taxes, deferring maintenance, refusing strategic thinking and continually kicking the can down the road when it comes to incremental increases in property taxes, despite an undercurrent of the town being on the precipice of woeful underfunding for police, street infrastructure, and longterm growth... I'm just saying, I could see a scenario where that could happen.

Ironically I've heard several people talking about some potential upcoming "funding" issues for Madison in the last week. Interesting.