I'm truly on the fence about Howland

[DAWG61]

Let me start off by saying that I've spent way too much time googling basketball coaches over the last month but here we are 19-14 (that's not a fireable record) we are going to the postseason again (NIT is never preferred but again not fireable) we have a top 3 overall SEC player in Molinar that wasn't ever signing with another SEC team so that is a huge Howland find in recruiting, same with Garcia and Tolu, we have exciting young players imo (Matthews, Fountain, Moore, Garcia, Carter). From all reports we have several very talented players joining up next year.

Do I wish we played more exciting basketball on offense? Hell yes. Is it beyond frustrating when we can't shoot a 3? Yup. You know what is promising though? Only giving up 51 points. Andersson Garcia having 14 rebounds (again). Healthy Tolu all year we are already in the tourney. We can't fire Howland after this year. I've now removed myself from the fence. You should as well.

Riley Kugel

[tweet]1484958883101777921[/tweet]

 

[coach66]

I have a lot of respect for Howland, he’s had a solid

Career and is a gem of a person but he has not done a good job this year with the talent he has brought in. We don’t play hard consistently and we can’t shoot consistently.

 

[kired]

I'm not sure he deserves to be "fired" but I'll damn sure be happy if he decides to retire.

 

[msstate7]

I'm not sure he deserves to be "fired" but I'll damn sure be happy if he decides to retire.

I agree with this.

 

[Cooterpoot]

I'm not sure he deserves to be "fired" but I'll damn sure be happy if he decides to retire.

He's not going to be fired.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Stans may be available soon to replace Howland…

 

[patdog]

Good lord, man. Give it up. It's over. In 7 years, he's 8 games under .500 in the SEC;0-1 in the NCAA tournament. Despite having 3 good legacy players fall into his lap.

 

[57stratdawg]

I agree. I also think he’s been unlucky. We were a double-bye in the SECT when the season was cancelled. Also, holding onto either DJ Stewart, Perry or Woodard an extra year would have really benefited us. Even the Tolu Smit injury this year was tough luck.

All of that aside though, we can’t get consistent PG play. It’s defined his tenure at MSU.

 

[patdog]

He’s not unlucky. Nobody was projecting us in the tournament last year. And injuries happen to every team. Underperforming is what’s defined his tenure at Mississippi State.

 

[Msubulldogfan1]

The fan base has to be considered also. He’s totally lost it.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

The fan base has to be considered also. He’s totally lost it.

Can he lose something he never really had?

 

[msstate7]

Can he lose something he never really had?

Seems our fan base looks for reasons to justify how crappy we are

 

[maroonmania]

He’s not unlucky. Nobody was projecting us in the tournament last year. And injuries happen to every team. Underperforming is what’s defined his tenure at Mississippi State.

He has actually been lucky. Most of his best recruits have been MSU legacies which I don't ever remember any other coach in MSU BB history having access to in the numbers he has. But we still only make the NCAA tourney once in seven years. I would hate to think about where we would be if he had not had so many recruits available to him with MSU ties during his tenure

 

[msstate7]

Went back and looked at preseason predictions...

2019 -9th https://www.cbssports.com/college-b...-florida-auburn-capable-of-catching-kentucky/

2020 - 12th
https://www.cbssports.com/college-b...o-get-back-on-track-tops-rebuilding-kentucky/

2021 - 8th
https://www.cbsports.com/college-ba...dictions-most-overrated-and-underrated-teams/

Actual finishes:
2019 - 4th
2020 - 9th
2021 - 10th

 

[tenureplan]

Rick Ray kinda burnt the building down tho

 

[mstateglfr]

Good lord, man. Give it up. It's over. In 7 years, he's 8 games under .500 in the SEC;0-1 in the NCAA tournament. Despite having 3 good legacy players fall into his lap.

He has actually been lucky. Most of his best recruits have been MSU legacies which I don't ever remember any other coach in MSU BB history having access to in the numbers he has. But we still only make the NCAA tourney once in seven years. I would hate to think about where we would be if he had not had so many recruits available to him with MSU ties during his tenure

4 legacies?

I do laugh at how dismissive some are with regard to the 3 legacies you two are thinking of. As if the staff doesn't have to work for them to sign and it's just some done deal? If that were the case, then we(and other schools) would have rosters with legacy players most years.

 

[stateu1]

Good lord, man. Give it up. It's over. In 7 years, he's 8 games under .500 in the SEC;0-1 in the NCAA tournament. Despite having 3 good legacy players fall into his lap.

0 of 5 down votes? Who are you 17ing people? Pat is 100% spot on. Gosh damn. You think with the folks we’ve had we should have zero tourney wins? Get the 17 out.

 

[mcdawg22]

Good lord, man. Give it up. It's over. In 7 years, he's 8 games under .500 in the SEC;0-1 in the NCAA tournament. Despite having 3 good legacy players fall into his lap.

Wait, so one win against SC in the SEC tournament have people downvoting this? What the hell is wrong with you people. This team has been the most sleepwalking, predictably mediocre team in MSU history for the last 3 years. Every time we do anything remotely good we turn around and lose an embarrassing game. The fanbase is completely apathetic and if he comes back you may have 200 people in the hump after we inexplicably lose 2 or 3 bad non conference games.

 

[msstate7]

Wait, so one win against SC in the SEC tournament have people downvoting this? What the hell is wrong with you people. This team has been the most sleepwalking, predictably mediocre team in MSU history for the last 3 years. Every time we do anything remotely good we turn around and lose an embarrassing game. The fanbase is completely apathetic and if he comes back you may have 200 people in the hump after we inexplicably lose 2 or 3 bad non conference games.

We basically finished where we were predicted to finish. 6 sec teams finished 9-9/8-10. This league is extremely good

 

[mcdawg22]

We basically finished where we were predicted to finish. 6 sec teams finished 9-9/8-10. This league is extremely good

Vandy finishes every football season where they are projected. That is not a positive and certainly not justification to keep a coach.

 

[msstate7]

Vandy finishes every football season where they are projected. That is not a positive and certainly not justification to keep a coach.

How would you rank the sec in talent?

BTW, look a few posts up - we exceeded preseason predictions the previous 2 years. I'm fine with howland "retiring", but to act like he's been garbage is terrible.

 

[mcdawg22]

How would you rank the sec in talent?

BTW, look a few posts up - we exceeded preseason predictions the previous 2 years. I'm fine with howland "retiring", but to act like he's been garbage is terrible.

So the justification for keeping Ben Howland, a coach known for his recruiting prowess more than X’s and O’s, is because other teams have more talent? That makes perfect sense.

 

[msstate7]

So the justification for keeping Ben Howland, a coach known for his recruiting prowess more than X’s and O’s, is because other teams have more talent? That makes perfect sense.

I literally just said I'm fine with him "retiring". I take offense to the total trashing of him though. He's been exponentially better than we (fans) have been

 

[maroonmania]

4 legacies?

I do laugh at how dismissive some are with regard to the 3 legacies you two are thinking of. As if the staff doesn't have to work for them to sign and it's just some done deal? If that were the case, then we(and other schools) would have rosters with legacy players most years.

I will absolutely give Howland credit for getting them to come to MSU (well obviously except for Brooks whose Mother put the stop to), but the point is we likely don't get any of them with Howland or any other coach without their built in connection to MSU. Maybe I'm being forgetful but I don't personally remember ANY other big time legacy recruits while other coaches have been here to even be able to go after. They have pretty much all come along during Howland's tenure. That includes Newman, Perry, Woodard, Carter, Brooks and N Weatherspoon (who I count because his brother was already on the team). Q has probably been our best overall player under Howland and he was actually a Ray recruit.

 

[patdog]

So, 9th and 10th places are fine since the polls knew we would suck before the season even started. Hell, by that measure, Rick Ray was doing a fine job.

 

[maroonmania]

Good lord, man. Give it up. It's over. In 7 years, he's 8 games under .500 in the SEC;0-1 in the NCAA tournament. Despite having 3 good legacy players fall into his lap.

I would actually say 5 (Newman, Perry, Carter, Woodard and N Weatherspoon). Newman and Weatherspoon didn't work out that well but they were both very talented guys. Newman looked pretty dang good after leaving for Kansas and NW had his moments, just couldn't stay out of trouble. And that doesn't even count Brooks who we got this one year from (should have been 4).

 

[Mr. Cook]

Don't be. And, furthermore, don't let last night's lopsided win take away from the season's trend. As others on here have stated, Howland was Bob Boyd 2.0. He's accomplaished reversing the damage inflicted by a coach from a program (Clemson) that is the lifetime cellar dweller of the ACC.

Howland is a solid coach and represented MSU well as a university, I'm grateful for him coming and turnign around our dumpster fire of a program. I've said all along that I'd wait until the end of the season to reserve judgment -- and my judgment is it's time for the next chapter of MBK and MSU to begin.

[Love that he ran out onto the floor to reprimand Molinar last night. Need more of that in today's game.]

 

[RocketDawg]

Yep, agree.

 

[Shmuley]

I wish for Coach Howland a happy and fulfilling retirement.

 

[RightOfCenter]

I don’t think I care if he stays or goes but knowing cohens unpredictable hiring process, I would kind of lean toward him wanting to stay. But, I’d like to see excitement around MSU basketball again.

Looking at the schedule and the games I have seen, I think the players have cost state at least five losses. It seems most of the time Garcia, Brooks, and sometimes Tolu are the only ones that know how to play. The others play like they are in a church league pick up game. I would think that players in college SHOULD have the basics and instinct in place and Howland shouldn’t have to teach them.

The coach is responsible for the players he recruits and that is on him. However, winning 19 games with no outside shooting is mildly impressive.

I have never understood how Howlands MSU teams could look like world beaters for 10-15 minutes and look like clowns the other minutes.

 

[patdog]

The league is pretty good. Big 10 and Big 12 both have more teams projected to make the tournament. 5 teams finished 9-9 and 1 finished 8-10. And we were helped by a schedule advantage with 5 games vs the worst 3 teams in the league, who are all truly awful.

 

[mcdawg22]

I literally just said I'm fine with him "retiring". I take offense to the total trashing of him though. He's been exponentially better than we (fans) have been

I agree with this and Howland has elevated the program from the floor, but sometimes a change is needed. What I don’t agree with is predicted order of finish and level of talent should be justification for keeping a coach. Let’s look at it from a football perspective. Our classes rank 6/7 in the West and our predicted order of finish is the same. Is it acceptable to end every year 6/7 in the West? If so, every coach since 2010 has overachieved.

 

[$altyDawg]

We basically finished where we were predicted to finish.

Oh, well hell, this makes me feel so much better! **** Let's just strive to be what the pundits tell us we are.

 

[PartTimeGenius]

To me it has never been about his recruiting or having the players. It's all about what he's done with those players. Last night's result is what we should have been seeing all year, and the past several years. His tenure here has been full of underachieving teams. As others have said, we're seven years in and still having this discussion. This current team is very talented, but we need someone that can get that talent to show up every night, not once every 3.

 

[$altyDawg]

I hate to split hairs, but it's 18 wins, unless you know something I don't about tonight's Tennessee game...If you were on the fence before last night, and you've been an MSU fan more than a year or two, last night's win was more frustrating than it is hopeful because this is the team you see on rare occasions. The team that plays even remotely close to its potential. That's usually followed by an embarrassing faceplant in the next game (or two).
It was fool's gold, plain and simple. Get back with me after we get drubbed by Tennessee and the first mid major we play on the road in the NIT and tell me if you're still on the fence.

 

[johnson86-1]

How would you rank the sec in talent?

BTW, look a few posts up - we exceeded preseason predictions the previous 2 years. I'm fine with howland "retiring", but to act like he's been garbage is terrible.

Agree with this. Howland has been solid. He took over a dumpster fire and got us to respectability pretty quickly. If he hadn't come in with such high expectations, I think most people would think of him as a solid but not good hire. Maybe they still do. I don't feel like we can/should fire him this year. On the other hand, I hate watching us play half the time. And I definitely would not be willing to shell out for a hotel room and a long drive when it's 50/50 whether the team will look good or look like ****.

If Howland is ready to hang it up, that's probably best for us. I don't think we can fire him or push him out though.

I think one thing people should remember is that it's at best 50/50 whether the next coach will be any better. Rick Ray was an inexplicably bad hire and I have no clue why we reached for him the way we did. That said, we likely aren't going to get one of the hottest up and comers (like say the Murray State coach), and they're still crap shoots for the most part. We are either going to (1) go the Howland route and get somebody that is proven to be good but is maybe past their peak (Miller? if we're lucky) or (2) we will get a retread that is not as old but has already flamed out somewhere else with what looks like a relatively low ceiling (Andy Kennedy type?), or (3) we will take a gamble on a second tier up and comer (Furman coach?).

 

[PuebloDawg]

How can you be on the fence? The basketball program is dead right now.

 

[msstate7]

So, 9th and 10th places are fine since the polls knew we would suck before the season even started. Hell, by that measure, Rick Ray was doing a fine job.

Didn't say it was fine. You said we underachieve, so curious what you base that on

 

[The Peeper]

we exceeded preseason predictions the previous 2 years

and this, we need to keep him because of this? Damn, that's worse than handing out participation trophy's to all the little leaguers

 

[MSUDC11]

Howland absolutely improved the program…. But it stopped improving years ago. We have been treading water ever since our triumphant return to the NCAAT ended with a loss to Liberty.

You can be thankful that he got us out of the cellar and still feel like his tenure has run its course here. If you’re not making the tournament with this team or the 2020 team then I have a hard time believing that in your mid 60’s you’re capable of suddenly turning it all around and making the tournament again with any roster.

Also, you’ve got to be able to draw fans in to your program and he has been totally unable to do that. It’s easy to blame the fans but the program bears a lot of responsibility for that failure.