Impact of not stopping the clock after first downs

[18IsTheMan]

Heard them talking on Gameday over the weekend about the positive impacts of the rule change that will keep the clock running after first down (except the last 2 minutes). They noted that it will shorten games by up to 8 minutes. Eight minutes? Seriously? The games are so terribly long and shaving 8 minutes off is really that big of a deal? Let's ignore the REAL culprits. After all, college football has been stopping the clock after first downs since 1968 (I believe), but length of game was not seen as a big issue until recent years. It begs the questions of what's making the games so long? It doesn't take a genius to see that it's commercials, for the most part, and to lesser extent, gratuitous and lengthy replay stoppages.

But, sure, let's not address the real problems. What slays me is that not one single person, coaches or commentators, will ever state the obvious reality that commercials are the reason games are so long. Everyone just goes along with the narrative that it's those pesky 8 extra minutes that result from stopping the clock after first down that really stretch the games out.

 

[Yard_Pimps]

Uhhh, because smart people know you don’t bite the hand that feeds you. What exactly do you think pays for all this crap?


I don’t understand the uproar about this. I think it’s stupid. I have even seen people saying they would rather get rid of replay. That’s equally as dumb. I would rather have the right call.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Uhhh, because smart people know you don’t bite the hand that feeds you. What exactly do you think pays for all this crap?


I don’t understand the uproar about this. I think it’s stupid. I have even seen people saying they would rather get rid of replay. That’s equally as dumb. I would rather have the right call.

Well, of course, I know WHY nobody is acknowledging what's really making the games too long. That's no secret. It's just silly how easily you can get everyone to go along with a narrative that's so obviously false. Stopping the clock after first downs has, at best, a negligible impact on the total length of games.

As to replays, I hate it. It takes the human element out of the game. However, if you're going to have it, use it judiciously and expediently. If it takes 3 minutes and multiple angles to tell if a player's knee was actually down before the ball came out, then it's too close to call and it should stand as called on the field. Replay should be limited to one minute. The moment replay is initiated, a one-minute timer should show on the screen. If no replay call is made before time runs out, then the call stands. Even on replays when they show it on tv and it's immediately obvious what the correct call is, they often take 2 or 3 minutes. No true college football fan can enjoy the use of replay as it is currently implemented. You just had a huge offensive play and have the defense on their heels? Well, let's give the defense a free 3 minutes to catch their breath and make adjustments.

 

[Yard_Pimps]

Well, of course, I know WHY nobody is acknowledging what's really making the games too long. That's no secret. It's just silly how easily you can get everyone to go along with a narrative that's so obviously false. Stopping the clock after first downs has, at best, a negligible impact on the total length of games.

As to replays, I hate it. It takes the human element out of the game. However, if you're going to have it, use it judiciously and expediently. If it takes 3 minutes and multiple angles to tell if a player's knee was actually down before the ball came out, then it's too close to call and it should stand as called on the field. Replay should be limited to one minute. The moment replay is initiated, a one-minute timer should show on the screen. If no replay call is made before time runs out, then the call stands. Even on replays when they show it on tv and it's immediately obvious what the correct call is, they often take 2 or 3 minutes. No true college football fan can enjoy the use of replay as it is currently implemented. You just had a huge offensive play and have the defense on their heels? Well, let's give the defense a free 3 minutes to catch their breath and make adjustments.

I’ll pass I’m not worried about the length of the game. Again I would rather have the right call. The officials should not be part of the game period. There shouldn’t be “acceptable” human error in the game. It’s the same reason mlb should go to AI to call balls and strikes.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I won't discuss sports any further with a non-sports fan.

 

[Thunderstick]

Why can't the networks just reduce the number of ads while raising the cost of the remaining ads to a break even point? What am I missing?

 

[18IsTheMan]

Why can't the networks just reduce the number of ads while raising the cost of the remaining ads to a break even point? What am I missing?

I'm sure the advertisers have done their homework and know that more frequent ads are the best scenario for them. NONE of the decisions that are made for college football are made with the best intentions for the game.

 

[Big JC]

Well, of course, I know WHY nobody is acknowledging what's really making the games too long. That's no secret. It's just silly how easily you can get everyone to go along with a narrative that's so obviously false. Stopping the clock after first downs has, at best, a negligible impact on the total length of games.

As to replays, I hate it. It takes the human element out of the game. However, if you're going to have it, use it judiciously and expediently. If it takes 3 minutes and multiple angles to tell if a player's knee was actually down before the ball came out, then it's too close to call and it should stand as called on the field. Replay should be limited to one minute. The moment replay is initiated, a one-minute timer should show on the screen. If no replay call is made before time runs out, then the call stands. Even on replays when they show it on tv and it's immediately obvious what the correct call is, they often take 2 or 3 minutes. No true college football fan can enjoy the use of replay as it is currently implemented. You just had a huge offensive play and have the defense on their heels? Well, let's give the defense a free 3 minutes to catch their breath and make adjustments.

I like the 1 minute idea but I think having replay as a coach's challenge is a better idea. Give each coach 2 challenges a half, that should be plenty. Don't put any penalty on the coach if the replay doesn't overturn the call, the coach simply loses that challenge. At most, there would be 8 replay timeouts a game and I think that many in a game would be very rare.

If tv has its way; in the future the game will have a running clock so there will only be 60 minutes of actual game time but the broadcast will still last three and a half hours with two and a half hours of commercials.

 

[Big JC]

I’ll pass I’m not worried about the length of the game. Again I would rather have the right call. The officials should not be part of the game period. There shouldn’t be “acceptable” human error in the game. It’s the same reason mlb should go to AI to call balls and strikes.

Does this mean you think every call by the official should be reviewed? Should every pass interference, illegal motion, offsides, etc. be reviewed? If so, games will last four or five hours but you would get the "right call".

 

[muscleknight]

Why not keep the game going and just show a split TV screen at commercial time. One for the game and one for the commercials. When all commercials are over go back to the single game screen.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I like the 1 minute idea but I think having replay as a coach's challenge is a better idea. Give each coach 2 challenges a half, that should be plenty. Don't put any penalty on the coach if the replay doesn't overturn the call, the coach simply loses that challenge. At most, there would be 8 replay timeouts a game and I think that many in a game would be very rare.

If tv has its way; in the future the game will have a running clock so there will only be 60 minutes of actual game time but the broadcast will still last three and a half hours with two and a half hours of commercials.

I'd also be fine with the challenges. Either proposal is a vast improvement over the current situation. Virtually any big play triggers a replay, which just sucks the fun and momentum out of the game. The team and fans can be all amped up, but instead of taking advantage of the momentum, they have to sit around for 3 minutes and wait for a decision.

Just play the game.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Does this mean you think every call by the official should be reviewed? Should every pass interference, illegal motion, offsides, etc. be reviewed? If so, games will last four or five hours but you would get the "right call".

This obsession over "getting the right call" is asinine. The human element is part of the game. Decisions are made in real time at full speed. If "getting the right call" is the ultimate object, then, yes, you should review EVERYTHING...holding penalties and so on. Those often have much more impact on the outcome of a game. How many drives have we seen be totally killed by a holding penalty? Too many to count.

 

[Prestonyte]

No more running out the play clock while looking at the sideline for the play call. If you do that, your number of offensive plays will be greatly reduced in this scenario. This is going to require offenses to be much more efficient in order to maximize offensive opportunities.

 

[Yard_Pimps]

This obsession over "getting the right call" is asinine. The human element is part of the game. Decisions are made in real time at full speed. If "getting the right call" is the ultimate object, then, yes, you should review EVERYTHING...holding penalties and so on. Those often have much more impact on the outcome of a game. How many drives have we seen be totally killed by a holding penalty? Too many to count.

That’s where you and I strongly disagree. “Human error” shouldn’t decide a game.

 

[KOTR]

This obsession over "getting the right call" is asinine. The human element is part of the game. Decisions are made in real time at full speed. If "getting the right call" is the ultimate object, then, yes, you should review EVERYTHING...holding penalties and so on. Those often have much more impact on the outcome of a game. How many drives have we seen be totally killed by a holding penalty? Too many to count.

And if the "human element" causes a team to lose a few games it's okay? I disagree. I actually do think several calls (or non calls) that aren't currently reviewable should be. When an official does or doesn't call PI when he should/shouldn't, it's a big deal. Same thing for holding and not holding.

I wish the NCAA would start putting trackers of some sort inside the balls that communicate with similar tech slightly under the surface on the sideline. Bad spots shouldn't exist. There would still be a bit of the human element involved, though. The official has to rule if a player is down before the ball gets to the point the tech indicates.

 

[18IsTheMan]

And if the "human element" causes a team to lose a few games it's okay? I disagree. I actually do think several calls (or non calls) that aren't currently reviewable should be. When an official does or doesn't call PI when he should/shouldn't, it's a big deal. Same thing for holding and not holding.

I wish the NCAA would start putting trackers of some sort inside the balls that communicate with similar tech slightly under the surface on the sideline. Bad spots shouldn't exist. There would still be a bit of the human element involved, though. The official has to rule if a player is down before the ball gets to the point the tech indicates.

If you're opposed to the human element then EVERY single play and penalty must be reviewed.

 

[Yard_Pimps]

If you're opposed to the human element then EVERY single play and penalty must be reviewed.

You won’t hear any argument from me and it can easily be done without the stoppage of play. Look at the last 2 minutes of play in the nfl. No challenges and every play is booth reviewed. Stoppage is called if necessary as it should be.

 

[KingWard]

Heard them talking on Gameday over the weekend about the positive impacts of the rule change that will keep the clock running after first down (except the last 2 minutes). They noted that it will shorten games by up to 8 minutes. Eight minutes? Seriously? The games are so terribly long and shaving 8 minutes off is really that big of a deal? Let's ignore the REAL culprits. After all, college football has been stopping the clock after first downs since 1968 (I believe), but length of game was not seen as a big issue until recent years. It begs the questions of what's making the games so long? It doesn't take a genius to see that it's commercials, for the most part, and to lesser extent, gratuitous and lengthy replay stoppages.

But, sure, let's not address the real problems. What slays me is that not one single person, coaches or commentators, will ever state the obvious reality that commercials are the reason games are so long. Everyone just goes along with the narrative that it's those pesky 8 extra minutes that result from stopping the clock after first down that really stretch the games out.

Commercials and interminable video reviews. The latter should be subject to a two-minute limit.

 

[SILVERSPUR-rier]

Consumers know its the commercials that are making the games last so long. Other than the broadcasters themselve complaining about the length of the game, I don't think its the fans. If you want to get more plays in/faster play of the game, put earphones in all the helmets so the coach can simply call the offensive/defensive play and everyone on your team hears it (plus no stealing of hand signals/signs, etc). Maybe let the coach call the initial audible, but turn them off when the play clock gets down to 5 seconds. Does remove some of the element of crowd noise, but can still affect the snap/snap count, etc. The teams still have to execute the play that was called.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Commercials and interminable video reviews. The latter should be subject to a two-minute limit.

I would take the latter as an improvement. I'd still lean towards 1 minute. My guess is, 90% of reviews, you can tell pretty much on the very first replay what the right call is. Yet they still take minutes to do it. But 2 minutes would certainly be an improvement.

I guess it's just another example of the NCAA's ineptitude. They're getting rid of something that's been in the game for nearly 6 decades and has had a negligible impact, at best, on the length of games. The funny part is hearing the talking heads really pump up the change like it's really speed the games up. The dude on ESPN over the weekend said something to the effect "This change is really going to speed the game up and make it a better experience. It's estimated that it will shorten games by an average of 8 minutes." Games are, on average, about 200 minutes long. They're cutting 8 minutes. But they're addressing the problem!

I know that nobody involved is gonna say "we need fewer commercials" but I'd love it if even one coach said "I don't think it'll make that big of a difference."

 

[18IsTheMan]

Consumers know its the commercials that are making the games last so long. Other than the broadcasters themselve complaining about the length of the game, I don't think its the fans. If you want to get more plays in/faster play of the game, put earphones in all the helmets so the coach can simply call the offensive/defensive play and everyone on your team hears it (plus no stealing of hand signals/signs, etc). Maybe let the coach call the initial audible, but turn them off when the play clock gets down to 5 seconds. Does remove some of the element of crowd noise, but can still affect the snap/snap count, etc. The teams still have to execute the play that was called.

The best is when they go to a commercial after one team scores, then they come back for the kickoff, then go back to commercial.

But, yeah, it's stopping the clock after first downs that's the problem.

 

[Big JC]

The best is when they go to a commercial after one team scores, then they come back for the kickoff, then go back to commercial.

But, yeah, it's stopping the clock after first downs that's the problem.

Give up 18, you're dealing with people who want to watch a live version of a video game where technology eliminates every bit of the human aspect of sports.

 

[Yard_Pimps]

Give up 18, you're dealing with people who want to watch a live version of a video game where technology eliminates every bit of the human aspect of sports.

Yes because human error has no part in deciding a game. Period.

Work your *** off, play your heart out but wait.
Here’s a fumble that wasn’t a fumble that cost you the game. The players don’t deserve that bs. They deserve to have the right call. It’s an injustice to them. Forget what the fans think.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Give up 18, you're dealing with people who want to watch a live version of a video game where technology eliminates every bit of the human aspect of sports.

Yeah, these folks are like "I love college football! Now let's change everything that makes it college football!"

 

[18IsTheMan]

Yes because human error has no part in deciding a game. Period.

Sure it does.

Just go run computer simulations if you don't like sports.

 

[Yard_Pimps]

Sure it does.

Just go run computer simulations if you don't like sports.

I love sports but disagree that referees should affect the outcome of the game. Again that’s just dumb as hell.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I love sports but disagree that referees should affect the outcome of the game. Again that’s just dumb as hell.

For one thing, very, very, very, very rarely does a ref in football make a call that actually wrongfully determines the outcome of the game. Replay was a solution to a problem that didn't exist in any meaningful form.

For another, even with replay, fans STILL don't agree with major calls that are made (Exhibit 1: OSU/UGA semifinal game). So you haven't solved the problem because fans still don't agree that they "got it right".

Yes, I'm a purist, and the human element of refs is part of the game. If you don't want the refs to determine the outcome (which was a rarity anyway), don't leave it up to the refs. But, replay in its current forum is about the worst implementation of it you can have. They take MINUTES to do even basic reviews.

On top of that, they don't review the things that have the greatest impact. I'm much more concerned about phantom holding calls and missed holding calls, either one of which can drastically impact an offensive drive. But I'm fine with it as part of the game. Man up and don't leave it up to the refs.

 

[KOTR]

If you're opposed to the human element then EVERY single play and penalty must be reviewed.

Okay. I want it to be right. Period.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Okay. I want it to be right. Period.

You don't actually. You don't realize the implication of that position.

 

[Big JC]

Okay. I want it to be right. Period.

In your world, a football game would last 6 hours.

 

[Yard_Pimps]

In your world, a football game would last 6 hours.

That’s not true. The nfl evaluates every single play after the 2 minute warning. Stoppage only occurs if it needs to. The same could be done for the entire game. I agree that some calls are subjective and don’t need to be reviewed. I however do not think pass interference and holding is one of them. You either did or you didn’t.

 

[KOTR]

In your world, a football game would last 6 hours.

Okay. At least there should be very little, if any, controversy.

 

[KOTR]

You don't actually. You don't realize the implication of that position.

I know very well what my position means. But don't worry, you'll get to celebrate when a bad call, or no call goes against us. That's what's important. Right?

 

[vacock]

Don’t forget the soccer teams can teach how to flop so that a team can get a little extra time whenever they want. Ha

 

[Blues man]

.

 

[18IsTheMan]

NCAA would show up to your house on fire with a dime store water pistol and proudly claim to be fighting the fire.

 

[Uscg1984]

That’s not true. The nfl evaluates every single play after the 2 minute warning. Stoppage only occurs if it needs to. The same could be done for the entire game. I agree that some calls are subjective and don’t need to be reviewed. I however do not think pass interference and holding is one of them. You either did or you didn’t.

No they don't - not in the way you are talking about that would eliminate human error entirely. Human error accounts for bad calls, but it also accounts for NO-CALLS. If you really want to eliminate all human error, then you are advocating for a full video review of every play, reviewing every call and every no-call. I suspect that if AI had enough camera angles, it could identify a penalty on every single play in a game. Somebody somewhere is holding, interfering, blocking in the back, putting hands to a facemask, something. Human error, like it or not, is a fundamental part of the game. Which is why one often-overlooked component of being a great player is knowing how to gain certain advantages without drawing the attention of the human officials. A game without that would take about 5 hours to watch and would be extremely boring.

 

[Uscg1984]

Heard them talking on Gameday over the weekend about the positive impacts of the rule change that will keep the clock running after first down (except the last 2 minutes). They noted that it will shorten games by up to 8 minutes. Eight minutes? Seriously? The games are so terribly long and shaving 8 minutes off is really that big of a deal? Let's ignore the REAL culprits. After all, college football has been stopping the clock after first downs since 1968 (I believe), but length of game was not seen as a big issue until recent years. It begs the questions of what's making the games so long? It doesn't take a genius to see that it's commercials, for the most part, and to lesser extent, gratuitous and lengthy replay stoppages.

But, sure, let's not address the real problems. What slays me is that not one single person, coaches or commentators, will ever state the obvious reality that commercials are the reason games are so long. Everyone just goes along with the narrative that it's those pesky 8 extra minutes that result from stopping the clock after first down that really stretch the games out.

The bottom line is it will result in fewer plays per game. Less football. In what world is less football a good thing for fans of football? It also fundamentally changes strategy at the end of the game. Forget that football fans have grown familiar with that strategy for many decades now. It's gone. We'll have to get used to a new and diminished product.

 

[18IsTheMan]

The bottom line is it will result in fewer plays per game. Less football. In what world is less football a good thing for fans of football? It also fundamentally changes strategy at the end of the game. Forget that football fans have grown familiar with that strategy for many decades now. It's gone. We'll have to get used to a new and diminished product.

How much you wanna bet they’ll end up filling in those 8 extra minutes with more commercials?

 

[Psycock]

Ridiculous rule change - what genius came up with this. The result is less college football, when most people want more. To me, the games go too fast without shortening them. I can`t think of anyone who wants less football other than perhaps people with you kids who go to the games in person.