Nikkei rolling. Tomorrow could be one of those really good days.
In an effort to be fair, Futures up 600+
- Thread starter 615dawg
- Start date
- Status
PAAAWWLLL— WHY INVEST IN AMERICA WHEN COACH NICK SABAN HAS HIS OWN STOCK INDEX??? **
I don’t think Trump policies will tank global markets, I think the globalists will fight him with their media, war, and social upheaval. I can see them leveraging Russia and Iran with continued black market support.
She Mate Me had a good point about populations of countries taking it to the streets if their respective economies crash.
She Mate Me had a good point about populations of countries taking it to the streets if their respective economies crash.
There is a logical explanation for the jump… fishwater finally got off the sidelines and is buying the dip****
The best thing for everyone to do is get together and find a solution that works for both sides. This is what Trump is good at. If the rest of the world unites against us, midterms will be a Blue Tsunami, Trump's last two years will be a stalemate, and the Bernie Sanders/AOC ticket wins in 2028 and we move quickly toward socialism.
I guarantee we have members of Congress begging Macron to lead Europe in defiance. They will be taking a gamble as well, as I don't think everyone over there wants a fight. The breakup of the EU is in play if Europe decides to play hardball.
China can wait all of this out.
I’m not sure the Democrats learned their lesson from the last few pitiful candidates they’ve run. Anyone who hates Trump should be more mad at the Democratic Party than they are at him.
Agreed.
However, I think the world sentiment now is shifting more right.
European leaders are feeling the heat from their constituents on many key issues from the left that are going sour. Right-shifts in Germany, France, Sweden, Poland, etc are gaining momentum. Germany is going all in on clean-coal. Europe is de-coupling from Russia. I don’t know what the royal family is thinking, but the Brits are getting restless.
Canada is primed for a conservative wave. I read an article today about Chinese counter intelligence outing some liberals with coercion on their parliament to keep the trade status quo in place. That’s the kind of horseshittery the Chinese have been getting away with for far too long.
If nothing else, I hope the Chinese get cut down to size, they been poking the bear for 30 years, and seem to forget they export electronics and cheap discount goods, and import a lot of food.
Trump isn't going to take any deal. EU offers zero tariff, but Trump will not accept it. He is going after all the VAT that EU nations put on US products. Also, the zero Vietnam offer will be turned down. 50% of the factories and business in Vietnam are owned by the Chinese Communist Party. He is going to make those factories abide by what deal they end up making with China. Only reason Trump went so hard on some nations is because of China building factories in those country's trying to get around tariffs. When Trump put the 25% tariff on Chinese Steel, China sold the steel to a Canadian company which in turn sold to US Companies. Bill Clinton needs his *** whipped for going to bat for China. China is bad and not good for the world.
China made not only Vietnam, but both Canada and Mexico it’s biznatches to both undermine US policies and keep its currency from collapsing.
China is a slimy leech that doesn’t survive without US trade, period. It’s far more dangerous right now than Russia or Iran because it’s the thankless dog you feed in your backyard that at some point got huge and will think nothing of severing your trachea.
That is true. Trump gave us chaos and the Democrats gave us Trump.
I agree with much of this. But I don’t understand why many tariff apologists bring up VAT in the EU. My understanding is that they levy VAT on all products, imports as well as those manufactured in the EU. So I don’t understand how that’s an example of an unfair trading practice; its levied on everything there - not just imports from the US.
9% VAT on all US products we have 0% on their product. VAT has the same effect as a Tariff when it is put on imported products. They use the VAT as a Tariff. They have a 10% tariff plus a 9% VAT. That increases US products cost in their country by 19%. It makes US Products too expensive. You see German made cars all over our roads. Go to Germany and you might see one a day. I believe the ratio is for every one US car sold in German there are 9 German cars sold in the US. Those Germans would love to own the newest Corvettes. Just too expensive because of the 19% increase in price. The VAT matters.
Um… No.
The VAT applies to everything from every country and Americans can get VAT refunds when shopping in Europe.
How to Claim VAT Refunds
www.ricksteves.com
Um… No.
The VAT applies to everything from every country and Americans can get VAT refunds when shopping in Europe.
How to Claim VAT Refunds
Um… No.
The VAT applies to everything from every country and Americans can get VAT refunds when shopping in Europe.
How to Claim VAT Refunds
This is the problem.Um… No.
The VAT applies to everything from every country and Americans can get VAT refunds when shopping in Europe.
How to Claim VAT Refunds
"Retailers choose whether to participate in the VAT-refund process."
However, I am not arguing they don't use the VAT on everything sold. I am not saying many retailers don't eat the VAt. All I am saying the VAT can be used to back door a tariff. So why accept a ZERO tariff if they just add what they lower in tariff to the VAT? It has to be part of the negotiation.
Last edited:
1. Because it’s not a tariff. It’s sales tax.
2. Would the owner of a small business want to volunteer for MORE paperwork?
Of course not. Not in the EU & not in the US.
But don’t US sales taxes neutralize to some degree the VAT advantage you describe?
No idea if that happens, but the vast majority of countries are in much worse shape financially and treat their citizens much worse than we do. The amount of debt all these central banks have taken on is beyond ridiculous.
I've also lived through many, many market downturns in my life. Honestly, probably not nearly enough recently. I'm way past letting journalists, who are mostly complete idiots who are bought and paid for, influence my thinking at all.
I don't know how this turns out, but there are really smart people in this administration who have accomplished real and substantial things in the real world. Most are not your typical political hacks and grifters. I'll give them some leeway and see how this goes without constant commentary.
I honestly have no idea how anyone with any sense can defend what the Dems did the last 4 years. Here endeth my politicalness.
Last edited:
If we could fund social security with a vat instead of a payroll tax, that would immediately make the labor cost for our exports around 12 to 15% cheaper because a vat is rebated on exports.
Maybe but then there’d be people wondering why are they financing the costs of businesses and people they don’t use or know?
Instead of calling it payroll taxes, call it payroll user fees. It’s the same thing. **
(I may be slightly sarcastic but since user fees seem to be the nomenclature de jour…)
I think everybody is onto the lie about social security somehow being insurance or their money being used to pay their benefits?
I would think the ones that aren’t plugged in enough to know that aren’t plugged in enough to have been lied to to begin with? I don’t know. Maybe some older workers or retirees were lied to a long time ago and haven’t looked at any news for the past decade or so. But I don’t even know where the misleading information about social security comes from anymore. Ate people even told that their taxes are going towards their benefits anymore?
VAT is their equivalent to a sales tax, and it's levied on everything. It shouldn't enter into this conversation at all.
Absolute correct take. China hates us and wants to replace the U.S. dollar with their currency as the world's primary standard. Only reason they haven't taken over Taiwan is because they know we are the #1 consumer nation in the world (it's not even close) and they depend on us to buy most of their product. Trump has them and everyone else over a barrel and he knows it. If he gets us through this stock market blip, then we could be rolling like a big train down the economic track. If he succeeds with our economy......then look out Gaza, Greenland, and the Panama Canal......Trump is coming to a venue near you......soon!
You do know that the VAT is also applied to their own products, right? It's essentially a sales tax on everything thing.
Explain how it is a back door tariff when it applies to their own products equally? I'll save you the trouble, you can't. It's not a tariff. It's a sales tax, on all products, foreign and domestic.
When you defend how bad your monkeys are by how bad the last set of monkeys were, it's not good. That seems all both American parties have left these days. I'm sick of both of them. This current bunch is a set of hacks and grifters too, they just go about it differently. They aren't any smarter or any dumber than your typical politicians.
Last edited:
But if we are the #1 consumer in the world and the planet is dependent on our consumption of their products (including and beyond China) then aren't we giving up that advantage/leverage with blanket tariffs by redirecting those dollars away from the non-China countries that want our dollars and are influenced by our policies? This would give them an incentive to move towards sourcing from China without us and defeat the purpose. I get bumping heads with the Chinese to better compete either them but not everyone else.
ETA: I suppose the rest of the world could be frightened of moving towards China and would give us better trade deals to avoid, but pissing off/frightening loyal trading partners and allies could easily backfire.
Last edited:
The thing about China is, when we unilaterally stop buying their products, we lose the only real leverage we have over them. When that's gone.....it's going to be a different world. Y'all are forgetting they are a totalitarian state. They can endure economic pain a lot easier than we can. Those protesters on the streets, lock them up or just shoot them where they stand. The last time we instituted tariffs this big, it also started a trade war. That heavily contributed to how bad the depression got, and THAT contributed heavily to the rise of Hitler and the outbreak of WWII. This is playing with fire, and it seems it's being done by the seat of the pants.
As for the futures being up, good. Let's see if it sticks. Lately things have been turning on the latest utterance of Tump and his Cabinet members. This one is because somebody said he is open to deals. We will see. If you take him at his word before he was back in office, I'm not sure there will be. He wants the tariffs for their own sake. He has been clear about that for decades.
or unleash a global illness to scare them home, then kill them
Would you still be saying this if Trump hadn't put out the tariffs? You seem to really really dislike them, but don't let that one issue cloud your judgment.
Surely you aren't saying you'd bet on Biden/Harris/Schumer/Pelosi/AOC etc. in a game of chess against Trump/Vance/Musk/Miller/Rubio et al? Or would you?
- Status