Interesting

Bulldog Bruce

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The problem has always been when control is one sided it tends to favor the side with the control. They keep asking players to put more and more of their physical well-being on the line with no additional compensation. They get to make more money while their costs are basically fixed for their workforce. They are the ones that turned it into a business, not the players. That's why there has to be as means of collective bargaining. You can't ask those 80 guys to earn all the money and force them to work 25% more so someone can play volleyball or golf.
 

TaleofTwoDogs

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Football and basketball are part of the SEC network revenue sharing. Baseball isn’t part of that agreement and therefore will continue to be a non revenue sport. Again. Invest less in baseball.
Wrong. The ESPN agreement with the NCAA include exclusive broadcast rights to football and basketball but also 40 championship related broadcasts including most of the "non-revenue" sports such as volleyball, softball, baseball, etc. The schools also have agreements with ESPN and many streaming services to broadcast the "minor sports" such as baseball and softball. All of these agreements produce revenue for the schools.
 

SteelCurtain74

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Here is the roundtable that Byrne was a part of. It was headed by Ted Cruz but also had Senators Blumenthal, Blackburn, Moran, Manchin and Capito.

Along with Byrne and Saban was Jim Phillips (ACC Commisioner), Cavinder twins, someone representing collectives and a NIL attorney.

Cliff Notes:
Not in favor of classifying athletes as employees

Saban pushed revenue sharing. Said boosters should send money to universities and not collectives.

Funding collectives is not sustainable

If things don't change programs will have to be cut, Olympic sports were specifically named

Not much appetite for having government oversee any solution. Preferably NCAA but current litigation has their hands tied.

Solution needs to be made at federal level instead of each state determining their own solution for NIL.

It's an interesting conversation. It's over an hour and a half. Cavinder twins didn't bring much to the table IMO.

 

patdog

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Wrong. The ESPN agreement with the NCAA include exclusive broadcast rights to football and basketball but also 40 championship related broadcasts including most of the "non-revenue" sports such as volleyball, softball, baseball, etc. The schools also have agreements with ESPN and many streaming services to broadcast the "minor sports" such as baseball and softball. All of these agreements produce revenue for the schools.
I can promise the SEC isn’t getting much revenue from broadcast rights to any sports other than football & basketball. Maybe a minuscule amount from women’s basketball.
 

Perd Hapley

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I've been telling yall this for years.

If you want to make this thing a business and pay players from the schools, then boosters will have to fund non-revenue sports, or they will be cut.

It's not a good idea. Everyone who understands is screaming this, but no one is listening.
If that’s Byrne’s argument, then he’s full of crap.

Alabama football opened a brand new $288,000,000 football training facility in 2023, in one of the most nonsensical and lavish expenditures ever for a college athletic department. They spent that to overhaul what was already a Top 3 facility nationally by the people who rank such things. The damn thing had just been renovated for millions more in 2020, and had just been built 10-15 years before that.

Alabama did not win any games with that….already had way more than they needed and then some. But due to frivolous non-profit year over year spending requirements being what they are, money keeps just getting sensely dumped into stupid as hell waste such as this.

Want to know where that $288,000,000 could go? The 685 athletes in the non-revenue sports at Alabama could each receive, on top of their athletic scholarship, about $41,000 per year….for 10 years. That’s assuming 0% interest on that lump sum amount acrruing over time, too. And that’s just one senseless cash dump into one zero ROR project….of which there have been dozens over Saban’s tenure at minimum.

So yes, instead of elite programs senselessly flushing money down the toilet every few years on excess bling and drip….they could in fact use football money quite easily to pay for the non-revenue sports and athletes both to do quite well for themselves. They just don’t want it to pay for those things. And that’s fine….but don’t lie through your teeth and say “well there’s not nearly as much money as people think”. BS. There’s actually way more than people think. Go look at the 17ing football weight room. Just say we don’t really care that much about athletes who don’t make us any money, and stop crawfishing.
 

IBleedMaroonDawg

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If that’s Byrne’s argument, then he’s full of crap.

Alabama football opened a brand new $288,000,000 football training facility in 2023, in one of the most nonsensical and lavish expenditures ever for a college athletic department. They spent that to overhaul what was already a Top 3 facility nationally by the people who rank such things. The damn thing had just been renovated for millions more in 2020, and had just been built 10-15 years before that.

Alabama did not win any games with that….already had way more than they needed and then some. But due to frivolous non-profit year over year spending requirements being what they are, money keeps just getting sensely dumped into stupid as hell waste such as this.

Want to know where that $288,000,000 could go? The 685 athletes in the non-revenue sports at Alabama could each receive, on top of their athletic scholarship, about $41,000 per year….for 10 years. That’s assuming 0% interest on that lump sum amount acrruing over time, too. And that’s just one senseless cash dump into one zero ROR project….of which there have been dozens over Saban’s tenure at minimum.

So yes, instead of elite programs senselessly flushing money down the toilet every few years on excess bling and drip….they could in fact use football money quite easily to pay for the non-revenue sports and athletes both to do quite well for themselves. They just don’t want it to pay for those things. And that’s fine….but don’t lie through your teeth and say “well there’s not nearly as much money as people think”. BS. There’s actually way more than people think. Go look at the 17ing football weight room. Just say we don’t really care that much about athletes who don’t make us any money, and stop crawfishing.
It's incredible, isn't it?

Imagine if I had told you that Alabama football was going to build a stadium worth $288,000,000 back in 2000, would you believe it?
 
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Bulldawg77

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Wrong. The ESPN agreement with the NCAA include exclusive broadcast rights to football and basketball but also 40 championship related broadcasts including most of the "non-revenue" sports such as volleyball, softball, baseball, etc. The schools also have agreements with ESPN and many streaming services to broadcast the "minor sports" such as baseball and softball. All of these agreements produce revenue for the schools.
You sure about that Clark…. Notice what sport isn’t mentioned…
 
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HuntDawg

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We should also tell everyone post graduation they can’t ever change jobs, or maybe allow them to change only once
This is actually a terrible take. Whats wrong with the previous rules. You can leave, but have to go to Juco, or sit a year. Seems like thats more real life isnt it.

You do realize that right at 50% of the people that enter to portal, dont find a new school to play at. So while some of these people are making the most out of the portal, there are quiet a few that are walking away/losing their chance from an education, career, sport, etc... because of it..... this also isnt even talking about the kids whose scholarship arent renewed due to the portal transfers coming in. There were players at Colorado that arent playing football anymore and not getting an EDUCATION ANYWHERE because of the portal

Most places if you QUIT a job for no reason and leave said company high and dry, you get a negative reference and /or maybe you have to take a lesser spot at a new company and work your way back up. Some people in this world quit jobs thinking they will get another job, and instead are standing in the unemployment line.

Teaching kids that they need to research and find their best fit.. No one said you cant transfer or "leave jobs" But they are saying here are the consequences if you do.. and I think those rules are fair (sit a year, or go JUCO, lesser level). Sure there needed to be some special rules here and there for circumstances, but in general the system worked.

With the portal the way it is now... kids arent being held accountable to anything, the cant get bailed out for 4 straight years if they want. ... and we are seeing the results of that system.
 

KentuckyDawg13

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Clowns celebrating other sports being eliminated sound jealous in nature.
Still sad you got cut from THE TEAM?!
🤡
 

TaleofTwoDogs

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I can promise the SEC isn’t getting much revenue from broadcast rights to any sports other than football & basketball. Maybe a minuscule amount from women’s basketball.
Never said it was a lot of money. Define "minuscule" in terms of today's big money deals. Also I said "schools" not SEC, there's a difference in this case.
You sure about that Clark…. Notice what sport isn’t mentioned…

Great job of taking things out of context, a common problem today. Same article: "This new agreement will be concurrent with the separate, existing 20-year agreement between ESPN and the SEC that also runs through 2033-34 and sees ESPN carry more than 1,950 SEC games each year across the conference's 21 sports on ESPN networks and SEC Network." It also doesn't mention the broader ESPN deal with broastcasting the championship games of the different sports beyond football & basketball. All sports make money on some level, it's just a matter of how much. I hope this helps you, Clarkette.
 

Bulldawg77

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Never said it was a lot of money. Define "minuscule" in terms of today's big money deals. Also I said "schools" not SEC, there's a difference in this case.


Great job of taking things out of context, a common problem today. Same article: "This new agreement will be concurrent with the separate, existing 20-year agreement between ESPN and the SEC that also runs through 2033-34 and sees ESPN carry more than 1,950 SEC games each year across the conference's 21 sports on ESPN networks and SEC Network." It also doesn't mention the broader ESPN deal with broastcasting the championship games of the different sports beyond football & basketball. All sports make money on some level, it's just a matter of how much. I hope this helps you, Clarkette.
You really are that dense arnt you…. If you think for one second that your beloved LFL your DNF makes one nickel to our bottom line and the revenue sharing agreement then you’re dumber than I thought. Most of those sports you listed will be streamed. The schools own those cameras the schools will have to sell ads, not ESPN.. sure a couple of games are aired during the season but it’s F’n filler just to get to football and basketball. But I bet you didn’t know that did you lounger.
Baseball does nothing, nada, zilch for us in the new landscape of college athletics. It’s a non revenue sport yet we have treated it like it’s the only sport we can win at, which is bull ****.
If we continue to invest in baseball like we have then we are doomed in the future of realignment. But we have clubsporters on all the messages boards more worried about that LFL or giving that wiener to the right fielder hoping they get facebook and Twitter famous.
Meanwhile our rival sees exactly where athletics are headed and are all in on football and just re upped Beard.
Thank god for Selman and the fact he sees what we must be done
 
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PooPopsBaldHead

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You really are that dense arnt you…. If you think for one second that your beloved LFL your DNF makes one nickel to our bottom line and the revenue sharing agreement then you’re dumber than I thought. Most of those sports you listed will be streamed. The schools own those cameras the schools will have to sell ads, not ESPN.. sure a couple of games are aired during the season but it’s F’n filler just to get to football and basketball. But I bet you didn’t know that did you lounger.
Baseball does nothing, nada, zilch for us in the new landscape of college athletics. It’s a non revenue sport yet we have treated it like it’s the only sport we can win at, which is bull ****.
If we continue to invest in baseball like we have then we are doomed in the future of realignment. But we have clubsporters on all the messages boards more worried about that LFL or giving that wiener to the right fielder hoping they get facebook and Twitter famous.
Meanwhile our rival sees exactly where athletics are headed and are all in on football and just re upped Beard.
Thank god for Selman and the fact he sees what we must be done
Geeze dude... Show us on the doll were the old man standing behind the grill at a baseball game touched you.
 

CochiseCowbell

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Geeze dude... Show us on the doll were the old man standing behind the grill at a baseball game touched you.

Awkward New Girl GIF
 

jethreauxdawg

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This is actually a terrible take. Whats wrong with the previous rules. You can leave, but have to go to Juco, or sit a year. Seems like thats more real life isnt it.

You do realize that right at 50% of the people that enter to portal, dont find a new school to play at. So while some of these people are making the most out of the portal, there are quiet a few that are walking away/losing their chance from an education, career, sport, etc... because of it..... this also isnt even talking about the kids whose scholarship arent renewed due to the portal transfers coming in. There were players at Colorado that arent playing football anymore and not getting an EDUCATION ANYWHERE because of the portal

Most places if you QUIT a job for no reason and leave said company high and dry, you get a negative reference and /or maybe you have to take a lesser spot at a new company and work your way back up. Some people in this world quit jobs thinking they will get another job, and instead are standing in the unemployment line.

Teaching kids that they need to research and find their best fit.. No one said you cant transfer or "leave jobs" But they are saying here are the consequences if you do.. and I think those rules are fair (sit a year, or go JUCO, lesser level). Sure there needed to be some special rules here and there for circumstances, but in general the system worked.

With the portal the way it is now... kids arent being held accountable to anything, the cant get bailed out for 4 straight years if they want. ... and we are seeing the results of that system.
Uh, no. That’s nothing like real life. People are free to switch jobs whenever they want. Sure, could be a bad move, but it might be great. I’ve seen both. A bad reference from their most recent employer keeps them from getting a job? Is this Downton Abbey? If someone applies for a job and the prospective new employer contacts the current employer, the current employer can’t say anything negative or they get sued and lose.
The current nil/transfer portal is not good for college football, but if I was a top player, I’d love these rules. And if a player makes the bad decision to leave a known good thing to search for a supposed better thing but it goes bust, so what? That’s his problem. Let people make their own decisions and live with the consequences.
 

Maroon13

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Gezzz we live in such a backwards world. First, I've seen mentioned here Byrnes talk about Olympic sports. However convenientally left out of the conversation here, is Byrne talked about the players earning $40k cash before any other benefits such as scholarships and housing. Everyone acts like players are taken advantage of.... No they're not. They are paid by the school, Paid under the table and by nil too.

2nd Blackburn, she brings up the ncaa. Everyone in Tennessee is lying their *** off about that situation. Tennessee collective promised to pay a California hs kid $8mil. The ncaa specifically said in their nil rules; you can not have pay for signing. Now you have Fed judges and US senators crying about the rules being enforced.

What an upside down world.
 
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HailStout

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BINGO

But on the plus side, how funny will it be to see the look on the faces of all those baseball, soccer, volleyball, softball (or whatever sports are cut) travel parents who dumped money for years into little Johnny's/Suzie's club teams.
I have daughters who have worked their asses off to be good at gymnastics and soccer. They may not make it, but they have a legit shot to continue on the college level. Yeah, it would be absolutely hilarious if they have all their hard work thrown back in their face.

I love college football, but this whole “F every other sport” attitude is absolutely ridiculous. And yea I understand the financial realities of all of this, but it really is one of the saddest commentaries of the way things work in this country I have ever seen.
 

OG Goat Holder

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I have daughters who have worked their asses off to be good at gymnastics and soccer. They may not make it, but they have a legit shot to continue on the college level. Yeah, it would be absolutely hilarious if they have all their hard work thrown back in their face.

I love college football, but this whole “F every other sport” attitude is absolutely ridiculous. And yea I understand the financial realities of all of this, but it really is one of the saddest commentaries of the way things work in this country I have ever seen.
I don't want those opportunities taken away. I'm firmly in the camp of keeping amateurism, and allowing football to pay for it all. But if all the ItS a MuH bUsInEsS people get their way, those opportunities will likely diminish.

That said, if you're going to work hard, work hard in a field where there is a market/demand. The sneaky truth is, most travel ballers and club ballers parents do it more for status.
 

Maroon13

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I don't want those opportunities taken away. I'm firmly in the camp of keeping amateurism, and allowing football to pay for it all. But if all the ItS a MuH bUsInEsS people get their way, those opportunities will likely diminish.

That said, if you're going to work hard, work hard in a field where there is a market/demand. The sneaky truth is, most travel ballers and club ballers parents do it more for status.
I gusss your kid didn't make the travel ball team. Because you sure have a axe to grind with those people which has absolutely nothing to do with the nil mess.

btw, it isn't about status. There is a number of reasons people participate in travel ball. One is that rec horribly bad for numerous reasons. Two, and important, their kids want to play at a higher level and with friends. Also for me, we played for those reasons and it was about having fun. Period.
 
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chuckster.sixpack

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BINGO

But on the plus side, how funny will it be to see the look on the faces of all those baseball, soccer, volleyball, softball (or whatever sports are cut) travel parents who dumped money for years into little Johnny's/Suzie's club teams.
Spoken like a parent whose charming personality cost their kid a spot on a travel team
 

Maroon13

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Also while I'm procrastinating at work.... PLAYERS are NOT the MONETARY driver in college athletics revenue. It is the conference logo. It is the specific school logo. Even the players themselves admit this truth by signing to play in the sec and Big and then leap frogging from the lesser schools in said conferences to the winning schools in said conference.

Also, if players Alone were the monetary driver, their NIL would follow them to the USFL or CFL.
 

HuntDawg

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I gusss your kid didn't make the travel ball team. Because you sure have a axe to grind with those people which has absolutely nothing to do with the nil mess.

btw, it isn't about status. There is a number of reasons people participate in travel ball. One is that rec horribly bad for numerous reasons. Two, and important, their kids want to play at a higher level and with friends. Also for me, we played for those reasons and it was about having fun. Period.

Agree. Travel ball is a must now simply because rec ball isnt any good anywhere. The last rec ball team we tried to play on and support. No score was kept, umpires didnt know the rules, and you were combining 3 age groups to get enough people to field a team. They were begging adults to coach, some of the adults didnt even understand the rules/game. Even then.. there might have been 3 players that could throw and catch without having to worry about them being hit in the face.

Travel ball destroyed rec ball. However now days, if you even want to resemble playing the game of baseball, its a must you play. And i think most parents hate it, and dont do it to keep up with the joneses--- they again do it so their kid can actually enjoy playing the sport
 
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OG Goat Holder

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I gusss your kid didn't make the travel ball team. Because you sure have a axe to grind with those people which has absolutely nothing to do with the nil mess.

btw, it isn't about status. There is a number of reasons people participate in travel ball. One is that rec horribly bad for numerous reasons. Two, and important, their kids want to play at a higher level and with friends. Also for me, we played for those reasons and it was about having fun. Period.
Agree. Travel ball is a must now simply because rec ball isnt any good anywhere. The last rec ball team we tried to play on and support. No score was kept, umpires didnt know the rules, and you were combining 3 age groups to get enough people to field a team. They were begging adults to coach, some of the adults didnt even understand the rules/game. Even then.. there might have been 3 players that could throw and catch without having to worry about them being hit in the face.

Travel ball destroyed rec ball. However now days, if you even want to resemble playing the game of baseball, its a must you play. And i think most parents hate it, and dont do it to keep up with the joneses--- they again do it so their kid can actually enjoy playing the sport
Blah blah, I know all this bullcheet, that's old news. I did it too. And I admit it was fun, for me. I would argue that most parents actually love it, not hate it. It's en vogue middle class America small talk to sit around and act like you don't, and that you have somewhere better to be, but it's nonsense. Your money shows your priorities, and youth sports is high dollar entertainment. But it begs the question, why is it the sports with the smallest return on investment (baseball and soccer, specifically for boys) are the ones that cost the most? Football and basketball are much cheaper, paid for by other sources. It's just an interesting phenomena that I have noticed.

It's causing baseball to drop in popularity, or at least it may be one of the factors. Most of the best athletes are playing other sports. The ones that stay and grind through travel ball are the ones that want it badly, and often over coached. Obviously there are some good athletes there too that love baseball, so this isn't a catch all, but I'm trying to be broad here. Bottom line, the 'economy' of baseball is pricing people out and the sport is ending up with less talent - THUS, you see MLB trying to dip into the inner cities and the DR or wherever to try and find talent....and ultimately additional fans. It's just not in a good spot, and it's not the best way to promote baseball. The 'economy' is taking advantage of the sport.

So, in this day and age of athletics, what's the best overall bang for the buck? We know that are going to have to specialize to an extent, even the best athletes have to do that nowadays, unless you live in a very small town. I'm talking about the average athletes, which most kids fall into. Kids that aren't super athletes, but may could get some college opportunities. If you're big - football. If you're tall - basketball. But I would lean more towards golf or just overall individual fitness or self defense classes (BJJ, TKD, kickboxing, boxing, wrestling, etc.), over team sports for the rest, at least after middle school. Because the problem with club/travel is that it's not about the TEAM at all.....it's about the best ones, and the rest subsidizing. Nothing about weekend tournaments teaches kids anything about hard work over the long haul. It's all immediate gratification, and transactional in nature.

This is also why I don't see the MLS ever really getting too big. You aren't getting the best athletes and you're pricing out the rest.

And both of those sports are hard on knees and arms, as we know, in addition to the small return.

I want to see this turn around for baseball, because that's what I'm most invested in, mainly at MSU. I just think there are better ways to do it, but I'm off that wagon. It would take a collective effort, and it's not happening. So I no longer waste time with things I can't change. Unfortunately &tate appears to be one of those things, but that's another topic for the dead horse beating some other day.

Considering all that, I actually 100% agree with you guys on the necessity of travel ball at this time, 2024. Another funny thing to me is seeing a lot of the parents who held out on travel ball (we started early) finally get into it and a year later they are posting all these memes justifying it and being as gungho as the OGs.

Just know that it's not about scholarship and future payoff - that's my ultimate point. Treat it as entertainment and fun and it's all good, so again, we agree. I actually think most people know this deep down, but for whatever reason (go back to my first paragraph about it being en vogue) they claim they hate it and they are only doing it so he can make whatever team, showcase, get a scholarship, etc.). These words are uttered all the time, every weekend.
 
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HuntDawg

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Blah blah, I know all this bullcheet, that's old news. I did it too. And I admit it was fun, for me. I would argue that most parents actually love it, not hate it. It's en vogue middle class America small talk to sit around and act like you don't, and that you have somewhere better to be, but it's nonsense. Your money shows your priorities, and youth sports is high dollar entertainment. But it begs the question, why is it the sports with the smallest return on investment (baseball and soccer, specifically for boys) are the ones that cost the most? Football and basketball are much cheaper, paid for by other sources. It's just an interesting phenomena that I have noticed.

It's causing baseball to drop in popularity, or at least it may be one of the factors. Most of the best athletes are playing other sports. The ones that stay and grind through travel ball are the ones that want it badly, and often over coached. Obviously there are some good athletes there too that love baseball, so this isn't a catch all, but I'm trying to be broad here. Bottom line, the 'economy' of baseball is pricing people out and the sport is ending up with less talent - THUS, you see MLB trying to dip into the inner cities and the DR or wherever to try and find talent....and ultimately additional fans. It's just not in a good spot, and it's not the best way to promote baseball. The 'economy' is taking advantage of the sport.

So, in this day and age of athletics, what's the best overall bang for the buck? We know that are going to have to specialize to an extent, even the best athletes have to do that nowadays, unless you live in a very small town. I'm talking about the average athletes, which most kids fall into. Kids that aren't super athletes, but may could get some college opportunities. If you're big - football. If you're tall - basketball. But I would lean more towards golf or just overall individual fitness or self defense classes (BJJ, TKD, kickboxing, boxing, wrestling, etc.), over team sports for the rest, at least after middle school. Because the problem with club/travel is that it's not about the TEAM at all.....it's about the best ones, and the rest subsidizing. Nothing about weekend tournaments teaches kids anything about hard work over the long haul. It's all immediate gratification, and transactional in nature.

This is also why I don't see the MLS ever really getting too big. You aren't getting the best athletes and you're pricing out the rest.

And both of those sports are hard on knees and arms, as we know, in addition to the small return.

I want to see this turn around for baseball, because that's what I'm most invested in, mainly at MSU. I just think there are better ways to do it, but I'm off that wagon. It would take a collective effort, and it's not happening. So I no longer waste time with things I can't change. Unfortunately &tate appears to be one of those things, but that's another topic for the dead horse beating some other day.

Considering all that, I actually 100% agree with you guys on the necessity of travel ball at this time, 2024. Another funny thing to me is seeing a lot of the parents who held out on travel ball (we started early) finally get into it and a year later they are posting all these memes justifying it and being as gungho as the OGs.

Just know that it's not about scholarship and future payoff - that's my ultimate point. Treat it as entertainment and fun and it's all good, so again, we agree.

I agree, the cost of travel baseball is stupid. I have some reasons and guesses as to why, but I'm sure everyone does. I think at the higher levels, like HS level teams, you are starting to see a drop off. Most will disagree with this because you see more of it on social media, but HS level travel ball tournaments are getting smaller and organizeations are drying up.

As long as familys etc are willing to pay that... nothing will change. But I agree it does need to change.
 

OG Goat Holder

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I think at the higher levels, like HS level teams, you are starting to see a drop off. Most will disagree with this because you see more of it on social media, but HS level travel ball tournaments are getting smaller and organizeations are drying up.
At the high school level, I do think they need to be playing in the summer. Fall? Eh, that's a separate issue, I personally think they play too much and throw too much. I think they should be using fall for athletic conditioning, because baseball isn't by nature an athletic sport. This can now take the place of the whole 'you must play multiple sports' if you do it right. And again, I'm talking puberty level and up. Below that, you definitely should play multiple sports to figure out which one you like and are good at.

But back to your point, I don't care too much about the high school level because at that point, it's the kids that are actually playing baseball still - i.e. the good players. Of course, some are still subsiding the elite, but hey, it's high school, you're actually playing for something.

The real money grab is the youth.
 

HuntDawg

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At the high school level, I do think they need to be playing in the summer. Fall? Eh, that's a separate issue, I personally think they play too much and throw too much. I think they should be using fall for athletic conditioning, because baseball isn't by nature an athletic sport. This can now take the place of the whole 'you must play multiple sports' if you do it right. And again, I'm talking puberty level and up. Below that, you definitely should play multiple sports to figure out which one you like and are good at.

But back to your point, I don't care too much about the high school level because at that point, it's the kids that are actually playing baseball still - i.e. the good players. Of course, some are still subsiding the elite, but hey, it's high school, you're actually playing for something.

The real money grab is the youth.
I agree, money grab is youth thing. But I dont think its due to status or keeping up with the jones. These travel ball organziations have figured out that rec ball sucks, and theyve found that sweet spot that parents are willing to pay.

And I know myself as a parents, I'm willing to sacrifice a lot for my children. And its not a keeping up with a joneses thing or a i think my kid is going to play MLB thing. Its an, I enjoyed the game, I think kids can learn a lot from the game, and this unfortunatley, is the price i have to pay for my child to get this experience. Because the rec ball expereince really isnt an experience.

Wish it were different, but as long as parents are willing to pay, it's going to continue to happen. Ive been lucky thru the years to find some teams where every effort was done to keep costs at a minimum, but those are few and far between.
 
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Maroon13

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Blah blah, I know all this bullcheet, that's old news. I did it too. And I admit it was fun, for me. I would argue that most parents actually love it, not hate it. It's en vogue middle class America small talk to sit around and act like you don't, and that you have somewhere better to be, but it's nonsense. Your money shows your priorities, and youth sports is high dollar entertainment. But it begs the question, why is it the sports with the smallest return on investment (baseball and soccer, specifically for boys) are the ones that cost the most? Football and basketball are much cheaper, paid for by other sources. It's just an interesting phenomena that I have noticed.

It's causing baseball to drop in popularity, or at least it may be one of the factors. Most of the best athletes are playing other sports. The ones that stay and grind through travel ball are the ones that want it badly, and often over coached. Obviously there are some good athletes there too that love baseball, so this isn't a catch all, but I'm trying to be broad here. Bottom line, the 'economy' of baseball is pricing people out and the sport is ending up with less talent - THUS, you see MLB trying to dip into the inner cities and the DR or wherever to try and find talent....and ultimately additional fans. It's just not in a good spot, and it's not the best way to promote baseball. The 'economy' is taking advantage of the sport.

So, in this day and age of athletics, what's the best overall bang for the buck? We know that are going to have to specialize to an extent, even the best athletes have to do that nowadays, unless you live in a very small town. I'm talking about the average athletes, which most kids fall into. Kids that aren't super athletes, but may could get some college opportunities. If you're big - football. If you're tall - basketball. But I would lean more towards golf or just overall individual fitness or self defense classes (BJJ, TKD, kickboxing, boxing, wrestling, etc.), over team sports for the rest, at least after middle school. Because the problem with club/travel is that it's not about the TEAM at all.....it's about the best ones, and the rest subsidizing. Nothing about weekend tournaments teaches kids anything about hard work over the long haul. It's all immediate gratification, and transactional in nature.

This is also why I don't see the MLS ever really getting too big. You aren't getting the best athletes and you're pricing out the rest.

And both of those sports are hard on knees and arms, as we know, in addition to the small return.

I want to see this turn around for baseball, because that's what I'm most invested in, mainly at MSU. I just think there are better ways to do it, but I'm off that wagon. It would take a collective effort, and it's not happening. So I no longer waste time with things I can't change. Unfortunately &tate appears to be one of those things, but that's another topic for the dead horse beating some other day.

Considering all that, I actually 100% agree with you guys on the necessity of travel ball at this time, 2024. Another funny thing to me is seeing a lot of the parents who held out on travel ball (we started early) finally get into it and a year later they are posting all these memes justifying it and being as gungho as the OGs.

Just know that it's not about scholarship and future payoff - that's my ultimate point. Treat it as entertainment and fun and it's all good, so again, we agree. I actually think most people know this deep down, but for whatever reason (go back to my first paragraph about it being en vogue) they claim they hate it and they are only doing it so he can make whatever team, showcase, get a scholarship, etc.). These words are uttered all the time, every weekend.
Yeah, these "clubs" and teams sometimes seem like a money grab to me. But if parents want their kids to be on the 3rd or 4th team at a club or travel team, and it subsidizes the club, that's their prerogative and the trade off.

Anyways baseball is just fine. Watch any MLB game it is extremely diverse. Hell MSU baseball is more diverse than its ever been.

.
 
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OG Goat Holder

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I agree, money grab is youth thing. But I dont think its due to status or keeping up with the jones. These travel ball organziations have figured out that rec ball sucks, and theyve found that sweet spot that parents are willing to pay.

And I know myself as a parents, I'm willing to sacrifice a lot for my children. And its not a keeping up with a joneses thing or a i think my kid is going to play MLB thing. Its an, I enjoyed the game, I think kids can learn a lot from the game, and this unfortunatley, is the price i have to pay for my child to get this experience. Because the rec ball expereince really isnt an experience.

Wish it were different, but as long as parents are willing to pay, it's going to continue to happen. Ive been lucky thru the years to find some teams where every effort was done to keep costs at a minimum, but those are few and far between.
The only differences in rec and travel are that the crappy kids are gone, you play more games and a different structure, and travel is done for profit. So the latter two is why is costs more, along with nicer fields, uniforms, everything. That's also why you have weekend tournaments in the spring and fall, because to make profit, have to rent the fields on the weekend and shove a bunch of tournaments in, and you can't play during the day in the summer, because kids would die.

Rec ball does suck now, and it's gotten worse because the city parks and rec now cater to travel and care even less about rec. I really don't see what was wrong with playing your typical rec season back in the day, then having All-Stars that play all summer, as long as you want to. And then have as many All-Star teams as you want, A/AA/AAA/Major, whatever. There's just no structure anymore.
 

OG Goat Holder

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Sep 30, 2022
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Yeah, these "clubs" and teams sometimes seem like a money grab to me. But if parents want their kids to be on the 3rd or 4th team at a club or travel team, and it subsidizes the club, that's their prerogative and the trade off.

Anyways baseball is just fine. Watch any MLB game it is extremely diverse. Hell MSU baseball is more diverse than its ever been.

.
No no no no. Not about race. You are weeding out many different races, specifically the late developers.

I'm white dude, and I love baseball. Why would I hate white people? Don't even go there. Nice edit.
 

HuntDawg

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Oct 25, 2018
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The only differences in rec and travel are that the crappy kids are gone, you play more games and a different structure, and travel is done for profit. So the latter two is why is costs more, along with nicer fields, uniforms, everything. That's also why you have weekend tournaments in the spring and fall, because to make profit, have to rent the fields on the weekend and shove a bunch of tournaments in, and you can't play during the day in the summer, because kids would die.

Rec ball does suck now, and it's gotten worse because the city parks and rec now cater to travel and care even less about rec. I really don't see what was wrong with playing your typical rec season back in the day, then having All-Stars that play all summer, as long as you want to. And then have as many All-Star teams as you want, A/AA/AAA/Major, whatever. There's just no structure anymore.

The costs is a lot of things. But those are some of it.

And agree dont see an issue with how it was. It kept those middling kids involved in the sport and made the better, thus making high school teams better and things of that nature. But now its basically a thing of the past. I saw someone put something on social media asking for a few more kids to sign up to play for a league to "make". And as stated the last time I was involved in park ball, they didnt even bother to turn the scoreboards on. Sad.
 

Podgy

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Civil Rights laws and interpretations of Title IX require spending lots of money on non-revenue generating women's sports. That's not gonna change.
 

HuntDawg

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Civil Rights laws and interpretations of Title IX require spending lots of money on non-revenue generating women's sports. That's not gonna change.
No it wont. Be It doesnt require a certain amount to be spent. Just equitable to that, that they spend on male sports. If University's around the country pull the plug on male sports, female sports will follow.
 

OG Goat Holder

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Sep 30, 2022
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The costs is a lot of things. But those are some of it.

And agree dont see an issue with how it was. It kept those middling kids involved in the sport and made the better, thus making high school teams better and things of that nature. But now its basically a thing of the past. I saw someone put something on social media asking for a few more kids to sign up to play for a league to "make". And as stated the last time I was involved in park ball, they didnt even bother to turn the scoreboards on. Sad.
It's the youth sports 'economy'. My theory is that we have educated an entire generation with athletic scholarships and kinesiology degrees. We've willed this into existence and that's one of my biggest beefs - I just don't want to contribute to it.

But when the sheep herd gets rolling, even the strong ones who go against the herd will get trampled if they don't sort of move along with it in a smart way. It is what it is.
 

Podgy

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No it wont. Be It doesnt require a certain amount to be spent. Just equitable to that, that they spend on male sports. If University's around the country pull the plug on male sports, female sports will follow.
They've cancelled male sports at a lot of schools, just not the major sports. They'll cancel more. Ya think Congress is gonna care if men's tennis and soccer and volleyball get cut? Republicans are not only scared to be called racists, they're scared to be called sexist.
 
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