Is the "Grand Experiment" envisioned by Coach Joe Paterno dead due to the NIL?

Mr. Potter

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I heard Coach Prime and the Colorado Buffs football roster achieved a team cumulative GPA of 3.00. I salute that and find it very impressive considering the current state of affairs of college football. My mind harks back to Coach Paterno discussing his Grand Experiment for Collegiate Athletes. I thought it fizzled out but there seems hope it will survive, no?

Shalom
 

BobPSU92

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Franklin: O.K., [player name]. Let’s take a walk through our outstanding library. After that, we’ll have you sit down with some academic counselors to discuss possible majors.

[player name]: Say what?! Show me the cash money, coach!

Franklin: 😞
 

Superdave63

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There will always be a few that strive to do things the right way and follow the rules with the goal of balancing success with positive outcomes.

And then there will be the many that are looking for success at any cost because the current climate with the media and fans demands it.

Hats off to Coach Prime. I don't love his ego but I can't argue with his message.
 

LionJim

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There will always be a few that strive to do things the right way and follow the rules with the goal of balancing success with positive outcomes.

And then there will be the many that are looking for success at any cost because the current climate with the media and fans demands it.

Hats off to Coach Prime. I don't love his ego but I can't argue with his message.
Hunter is flashy but he’s a wonderful teammate. I’d love if he played for my team.
 

bdgan

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I heard Coach Prime and the Colorado Buffs football roster achieved a team cumulative GPA of 3.00. I salute that and find it very impressive considering the current state of affairs of college football. My mind harks back to Coach Paterno discussing his Grand Experiment for Collegiate Athletes. I thought it fizzled out but there seems hope it will survive, no?

Shalom
The Grand Experiment is dead. Some coaches will continue to push academics more than others but now the players are focused chasing money. It's difficult to blame those who have the ability to earn 6 figures and up. Not many college graduates make that kind of money.

It's sad that the NCAA lost control the way they did. From a legal perspective I believe the idea was that regular students could earn money on the side so why can't athletes? But these athletes aren't earning money with a side job. Money is being handed to them in a pure pay for play structure. It's sad and there's no going back.
 

Moogy

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The Grand Experiment = take a bunch of meatheads with little to no interest in academics and gift them a C in a throwaway major just by agreeing to show up to class, and have tutors walk them through how to get a passing grade without learning much. Then point to the exceptions - the relative academic high achievers that would have flourished regardless of any experiment - and say "see? it's working!"
 

Meats Lab

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I heard Coach Prime and the Colorado Buffs football roster achieved a team cumulative GPA of 3.00. I salute that and find it very impressive considering the current state of affairs of college football. My mind harks back to Coach Paterno discussing his Grand Experiment for Collegiate Athletes. I thought it fizzled out but there seems hope it will survive, no?

Shalom
There’s a Coach in State College PA that’s doing a pretty good job in upholding the GE principles.
 

Midnighter

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If you look at graduation rates for college football players, it's higher across the board than ever (for all athletes to be honest). Consider in 2002, the graduation rate for college football players was 63%, compared to now which is 84% (per NCAA statistics).

So dead? Probably not - just different. Also note Joe made a whopping million or so a year when he was at Penn State. The death of college football isn't in paying players, it's paying coaches.
 

Georgia Peach

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The Grand Experiment = take a bunch of meatheads with little to no interest in academics and gift them a C in a throwaway major just by agreeing to show up to class, and have tutors walk them through how to get a passing grade without learning much. Then point to the exceptions - the relative academic high achievers that would have flourished regardless of any experiment - and say "see? it's working!"
When I was a student at Pitt I was employed by the NCAA to offer tutoring sessions to scholarship athletes. I met with athletes who ran track, shot hoops and played football. For the most part these athletes wanted to succeed academically to stay eligible and maintain their scholarship. That was the quid pro quo between the school, the NCAA and the student. Today that arrangement has been inalterably changed.
 

IBeBlockin

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Yes, the Grand Experiment is dead but so is “college” football - it’s a completely professional sport. I get the sense academics really don’t matter compared to NIL.

I have also noticed that it seems like you hardly ever hear of guys being academically ineligible at psu or in college football in general. In the 80’s and beyond, it was not uncommon to have 1-2 guys at PSU and Notre Dame be ineligible every couple of years, which may have suggested there was at least some semblance of a pretense of caring about academics (along with prop 48 and having to sit out a full year if you transferred).

Frankly, it also wouldn’t surprise me if there may likely be more Dexter Manley types out there across “college” football.
 
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Moogy

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When I was a student at Pitt I was employed by the NCAA to offer tutoring sessions to scholarship athletes. I met with athletes who ran track, shot hoops and played football. For the most part these athletes wanted to succeed academically to stay eligible and maintain their scholarship. That was the quid pro quo between the school, the NCAA and the student. Today that arrangement has been inalterably changed.
Your characterization of athletes wanting to stay eligible (i.e. the embarrassing bare minimum) in order to continue playing their sport is exactly what I described in my post.

So how has that changed? They still have to stay academically eligible.
 

kgilbert78

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The Grand Experiment = take a bunch of meatheads with little to no interest in academics and gift them a C in a throwaway major just by agreeing to show up to class, and have tutors walk them through how to get a passing grade without learning much. Then point to the exceptions - the relative academic high achievers that would have flourished regardless of any experiment - and say "see? it's working!"
Eh, you just don't hear about the vast majority who ended up doing stuff other than football. Back in the day--and not that long ago, most CFB players did not go on to the pros, or if they did, they didn't play long. Most colleges only had two or three players a year go on to the pros--and stick. That's changed now as the bigger schools have the better facilities. Yeah, there's some players that cr*p out academically--like Booker Moore. But there's a lot of ex-college players that have all kinds of jobs, many because they had the chance at a scholarship that they might not have had otherwise. Example: back in the day, I had a knee injury and saw a sports med doctor at Grant in Columbus. As I was walking in, I saw a dusty old ball in a case--that read Penn State. Turned out my doc had played for Joe in the 1970s, as linebacker. But didn;t make a big deal out of it. There are lots of these examples (though not all doctors, of course). Another was a car salesman at a local Toyota dealer here.
 

Moogy

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Eh, you just don't hear about the vast majority who ended up doing stuff other than football. Back in the day--and not that long ago, most CFB players did not go on to the pros, or if they did, they didn't play long. Most colleges only had two or three players a year go on to the pros--and stick. That's changed now as the bigger schools have the better facilities. Yeah, there's some players that cr*p out academically--like Booker Moore. But there's a lot of ex-college players that have all kinds of jobs, many because they had the chance at a scholarship that they might not have had otherwise. Example: back in the day, I had a knee injury and saw a sports med doctor at Grant in Columbus. As I was walking in, I saw a dusty old ball in a case--that read Penn State. Turned out my doc had played for Joe in the 1970s, as linebacker. But didn;t make a big deal out of it. There are lots of these examples (though not all doctors, of course). Another was a car salesman at a local Toyota dealer here.

I'm well aware that most don't go on to play pro football. That's the point. It shouldn't be "I need to stay academically eligible so I can keep playing football" ... it should be "these fools are giving me a free education so I can play a kid's game for a few years ... I'm going to get a real education, with real grades and a real degree, and I'll go run around a field and hit some folks and toss a ball around for a couple hours a day for the right to do that." Instead, there's a bunch of sociology/parks&rec/advertising types with C averages running around. Everyone gets excited when a kid pulls off a B average.

Of course these players are going to have "real jobs" after school ... they aren't all going to be homeless and living off welfare. Not sure what your point is there.

And it's not about "crapping out academically" ... it's about skating by academically for the right to play football for a few years ... and you get out with bleh grades in a bleh major and ... yeah, you end up a "car salesman" or the such. And then folks scream out "John Urschel!" "I knew a doctor who played on the squad!" and they feel better about the situation.

It is what it is ... but at least now, despite the system that was set up to use these boys for others' gain and entertainment, they have an opportunity to get ahead, financially, while they're playing the sport that most of them won't make a living on, in the NFL.
 

WVilleLion23

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I have always found an amount of skepticism around athletes and their degrees, etc.

I was a really good student and with a relatively heavy class load, ROTC requirements, summer classes some years, etc. I was no where close to being able to accomplish a major/minor in 3.5 yrs with a 3.75 GPA like some of these student athletes magically do.
 

JVP_Yahweh

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It's dead but that isn't really all that bad either. Regardless of how they do academically or what major they take up, most of these guys are connected to success through their time in the program. If you are an athlete you can graduate with a parks and rec degree, never play a down in the NFL and pull down tons of money due to being networked in with other athletes. Athletes don't need to be John Urschel, Todd Blackledge or Dave Joyer to have success in life. Most of them are just naturally ambitious type A people with lots of connections for success
 

Ludd

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Your characterization of athletes wanting to stay eligible (i.e. the embarrassing bare minimum) in order to continue playing their sport is exactly what I described in my post.

So how has that changed? They still have to stay academically eligible.
When was the last time you heard a player not being able to play due to being athletically ineligible.
 

Ludd

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I have always found an amount of skepticism around athletes and their degrees, etc.

I was a really good student and with a relatively heavy class load, ROTC requirements, summer classes some years, etc. I was no where close to being able to accomplish a major/minor in 3.5 yrs with a 3.75 GPA like some of these student athletes magically do.
I often wondered the same thing.
 

ApexLion

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That's not the grand experiment at all. That's an assinine description. Go back to the library and read the many books written about Paterno and his philosophy of what it means to be student-athlete. Joe was the product of New School and Brown intellectual movements on education theory. His approach was complex and purposeful, based on the theory that physical activity could nurture intellectual curiosity -- in the same manner that ancient Greeks celebrated physical and intellectual achievements. I'm ashamed for you and your post on a Penn State board.
The Grand Experiment = take a bunch of meatheads with little to no interest in academics and gift them a C in a throwaway major just by agreeing to show up to class, and have tutors walk them through how to get a passing grade without learning much. Then point to the exceptions - the relative academic high achievers that would have flourished regardless of any experiment - and say "see? it's working!"
 
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Moogy

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That's not the grand experiment at all. That's an assinine description. Go back to the library and read the many books written about Paterno and his philosophy of what it means to be student-athlete. Joe was the product of New School and Brown intellectual movements on education theory. His approach was complex and purposeful, based on the theory that physical activity could nurture intellectual curiosity -- in the same manner that ancient Greeks celebrated physical and intellectual achievements. I'm ashamed for you and your post on a Penn State board.
I'm ashamed you drank the Kool-Aid and can't see the obvious truth in my commentary.
 

ApexLion

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I'm ashamed you drank the Kool-Aid and can't see the obvious truth in my commentary.
There is no kool aid. I have 50 years of documented success, journalistic review and witnesses. Go read the accounts. You have a nonsensical, bar room interpretation of The Grand Experiment. I played a sport at PSU, worked in the athletic department and then traveled the country working in college sports. My definition of The Grand Experiment as witnessed up close is correct. You are wrong. Fu and the horse you rode in. Nothing pisses me off more than sports fans who are clueless about college sports and athletes and in this case a coach who dared to be different. You want to tear that down? Great but don’t expect people like me to nod our heads like the morons who spout such falsehoods.
 

Moogy

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There is no kool aid. I have 50 years of documented success, journalistic review and witnesses. Go read the accounts. You have a nonsensical, bar room interpretation of The Grand Experiment. I played a sport at PSU, worked in the athletic department and then traveled the country working in college sports. My definition of The Grand Experiment as witnessed up close is correct. You are wrong. Fu and the horse you rode in. Nothing pisses me off more than sports fans who are clueless about college sports and athletes and in this case a coach who dared to be different. You want to tear that down? Great but don’t expect people like me to nod our heads like the morons who spout such falsehoods.

I played a sport at PSU, as well, psycho. I also have 2 boys who are about to start the college student-athlete journey, so I'm heavily invested in the process. And I knew quite a few football players while at PSU, and talked to them about their experiences ... and independently witnessed even more. It is these experiences which have allowed me to knowledgeably opine on the subject, rather than regurgitate marketing material.

You've spent a lot of energy and words ranting and insulting, but you've put forward just about no effort actually putting forth an argument as to how I'm wrong. Almost exactly like you would expect from a kool-aid drinker, cult-boy.
 
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Catch1lion

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I have always found an amount of skepticism around athletes and their degrees, etc.

I was a really good student and with a relatively heavy class load, ROTC requirements, summer classes some years, etc. I was no where close to being able to accomplish a major/minor in 3.5 yrs with a 3.75 GPA like some of these student athletes magically do.
Don’t know when you graduated , but grade inflation is a real thing .
 
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kgilbert78

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I played a sport at PSU, as well, psycho. I also have 2 boys who are about to start the college student-athlete journey, so I'm heavily invested in the process. And I knew quite a few football players while at PSU, and talked to them about their experiences ... and independently witnessed even more. It is these experiences which have allowed me to knowledgeably opine on the subject, rather than regurgitate marketing material.

You've spent a lot of energy and words ranting and insulting, but you've put forward just about no effort actually putting forth an argument as to how I'm wrong. Almost exactly like you would expect from a kool-aid drinker, cult-boy.
A question. What "era" did you play in?? I suspect that's part of the disconnect. There used to be a day where athletics was important but not 24/7/365. I recall reading stories where players just did other things most of the year. Some played multiple sports. You almost cannot do that these days. It's become a year round job. Heck, kids are almost picking their sport in middle school. That allowed for a decent student to actually work hard on a degree, excepting during the season, which was also much shorter than now. The travel was less too (though that could be a little misleading, as State College was not as easy to get to back in the day).
 

NewEra 2014

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There is no kool aid. I have 50 years of documented success, journalistic review and witnesses. Go read the accounts. You have a nonsensical, bar room interpretation of The Grand Experiment. I played a sport at PSU, worked in the athletic department and then traveled the country working in college sports. My definition of The Grand Experiment as witnessed up close is correct. You are wrong. Fu and the horse you rode in. Nothing pisses me off more than sports fans who are clueless about college sports and athletes and in this case a coach who dared to be different. You want to tear that down? Great but don’t expect people like me to nod our heads like the morons who spout such falsehoods.
The poster you are responding to has always been a piece of work. He isn’t worth your time.
 
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ApexLion

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I played a sport at PSU, as well, psycho. I also have 2 boys who are about to start the college student-athlete journey, so I'm heavily invested in the process. And I knew quite a few football players while at PSU, and talked to them about their experiences ... and independently witnessed even more. It is these experiences which have allowed me to knowledgeably opine on the subject, rather than regurgitate marketing material.

You've spent a lot of energy and words ranting and insulting, but you've put forward just about no effort actually putting forth an argument as to how I'm wrong. Almost exactly like you would expect from a kool-aid drinker, cult-boy.
You need a reading list to actually understand The Grand Experiment and Joe Paterno. My evidence is well documented by many.

Start with Ridge Riley and Kenny Dellinger (he’s been on this board).
 

NittanyBuff

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Hunter is flashy but he’s a wonderful teammate. I’d love if he played for my team.
Hunter is a great kid, doesn't drink, smoke etc.. I don't always like everything Deion does and says, but he seems to truly care about and want to impact young people. If Dallas offers, however, its the one NFL job he might not be able to turn down.
 
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Moogy

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You need a reading list to actually understand The Grand Experiment and Joe Paterno. My evidence is well documented by many.

Start with Ridge Riley and Kenny Dellinger (he’s been on this board).
If you were trying to sound less like a cult member, you failed miserably.
 

HarrisburgDave

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The Grand Experiment is dead. Some coaches will continue to push academics more than others but now the players are focused chasing money. It's difficult to blame those who have the ability to earn 6 figures and up. Not many college graduates make that kind of money.

It's sad that the NCAA lost control the way they did. From a legal perspective I believe the idea was that regular students could earn money on the side so why can't athletes? But these athletes aren't earning money with a side job. Money is being handed to them in a pure pay for play structure. It's sad and there's no going back.
Agree 100%

The greatest student/athlete we ever had was Mike Reid. He was a leader, excelled on the field, and was a tremendous talent in a non sport profession. He achieved in whatever he did. When he was ready he walked away from football and became an award winning music artist.

I did not watch one minute of minor league football this past year. I did not miss it. I do miss the old days, they were better. You don't agree? I dont care.
 
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There is no kool aid. I have 50 years of documented success, journalistic review and witnesses. Go read the accounts. You have a nonsensical, bar room interpretation of The Grand Experiment. I played a sport at PSU, worked in the athletic department and then traveled the country working in college sports. My definition of The Grand Experiment as witnessed up close is correct. You are wrong. Fu and the horse you rode in. Nothing pisses me off more than sports fans who are clueless about college sports and athletes and in this case a coach who dared to be different. You want to tear that down? Great but don’t expect people like me to nod our heads like the morons who spout such falsehoods.
Quite impressive post...I envy you and your accomplishment. Due not allow those who do not know the truth but take the false narratives as gospel to annoy you....we are from a different generation and view the past from actual experience despite the media portrayal. Often at Alumni events I am subject to false statements about PSU....which makes me wonder WHY would someone attend a school they believe to be so terrible?
 

LaJollaCreek

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The game has changed and yes success with honor in the NIL era while trying to meet the W's standpoint would not work. Joe didn't want frosh to even suit up so how do you think he would react to paying them? He did budge and played frosh, but I think from when Joe started actually coaching at PSU to where the game is today, it's not even fair to try and fit in the grand experiment. Saban left as he saw the writing was on the wall with things equaling out and great HC's don't want to re-recruit their own players every year. I don't think anyone is a fan of the current chaos with the portal and NIL since it really isn't managed, but it would be hard to win at the clip Joe did while maintaining all of his players. Not a shot at him, but the game he coached in and this one aren't the same.
 
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