It was an interesting visit.

[Bulldog Bruce]

Got back a short while ago from the Dude. The ceremony for G-man, Raffo, and Tatum was very good. I met and talked to a few folks there. Got to meet the new AD congratulated him and wished him luck. Told him we were pulling hard for him. I was actually pretty surprised by some of the commentary and discussions with folks close to baseball. I won't go into details, but I did not hear any warm and fuzzies or even preaching patience. There are talented kids on the field, just no one stepping up in critical situations. A 300 foot fly ball to right would have gone 375 feet today. Those big strong boys couldn't lift something at all. Only our smallest right handed hitter managed to use it. WE TAKE TOO MANY PITCHES. When they actually swing at a pitch, they are not in a position to hit it. I watched the first 5 innings in the seats and went out to the lounge for the last 4 and did not pay as much attention out there. I sat next to a guy that managed in Pro ball for 30 something years those first 5 and he was just pointing out fundamental mistakes all over the place.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

It's an embarrassment. The coaching is atrocious. The talent is a mixed bag.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

any speculation on how it fell apart so quickly?

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

any speculation on how it fell apart so quickly?

Inordinate amount of pitching injuries and lack of fundamentals. The person I talked to pantomimed lifting weights when he talked to me about it.

 

[StumpNewGround]

Inordinate amount of pitching injuries and lack of fundamentals. The person I talked to pantomimed lifting weights when he talked to me about it.

Sounds like sense of entitlement and press clippings.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

Sounds like sense of entitlement and press clippings.

 

[StumpNewGround]

Never mind

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

Got back a short while ago from the Dude. The ceremony for G-man, Raffo, and Tatum was very good. I met and talked to a few folks there. Got to meet the new AD congratulated him and wished him luck. Told him we were pulling hard for him. I was actually pretty surprised by some of the commentary and discussions with folks close to baseball. I won't go into details, but I did not hear any warm and fuzzies or even preaching patience. There are talented kids on the field, just no one stepping up in critical situations. A 300 foot fly ball to right would have gone 375 feet today. Those big strong boys couldn't lift something at all. Only our smallest right handed hitter managed to use it. WE TAKE TOO MANY PITCHES. When they actually swing at a pitch, they are not in a position to hit it. I watched the first 5 innings in the seats and went out to the lounge for the last 4 and did not pay as much attention out there. I sat next to a guy that managed in Pro ball for 30 something years those first 5 and he was just pointing out fundamental mistakes all over the place.

thanks.

 

[tired]

Got back a short while ago from the Dude. The ceremony for G-man, Raffo, and Tatum was very good. I met and talked to a few folks there. Got to meet the new AD congratulated him and wished him luck. Told him we were pulling hard for him. I was actually pretty surprised by some of the commentary and discussions with folks close to baseball. I won't go into details, but I did not hear any warm and fuzzies or even preaching patience. There are talented kids on the field, just no one stepping up in critical situations. A 300 foot fly ball to right would have gone 375 feet today. Those big strong boys couldn't lift something at all. Only our smallest right handed hitter managed to use it. WE TAKE TOO MANY PITCHES. When they actually swing at a pitch, they are not in a position to hit it. I watched the first 5 innings in the seats and went out to the lounge for the last 4 and did not pay as much attention out there. I sat next to a guy that managed in Pro ball for 30 something years those first 5 and he was just pointing out fundamental mistakes all over the place.

Lemonis hasn’t just forgotten how to coach. He knows the game. I’m not saying he’s the greatest coach, but he’s far from a terrible coach. So why the terrible coaching? Could the NC have caused apathy? It’s just a head scratcher to me.

 

[Cantdoitsal]

Thanks Bruce.

 

[Pilgrimdawg]

Thank you Bruce. Appreciate the report.

 

[dog99walker]

A lack of fundamentals has shown up as we advanced during the baseball season. Bruce is correct. Saw you there at the ceremony. The question is correct it now or later.

 

[maroonmania]

A lack of fundamentals has shown up as we advanced during the baseball season. Bruce is correct. Saw you there at the ceremony. The question is correct it now or later.

So are the coaches we have incapable of teaching fundamentals? Is that why the guys that are transferring in seemingly outplaying guys that have been in our program? Our talent is nowhere near the top.of the league right now but it's pretty obvious that our whole right now is way less than the sum of the parts. I've seen some very subpar SEC teams over the years not get knocked around in embarrassing fashion as we currently are. I mean it's not just losing, heck OM is losing too, but it's the fact we can't even compete right now.

 

[Thebulldogcountry1]

Yeah, there was a strong wind straight out to right all day, but we didn’t hit a ball in the air until the 7th inning. We were constantly behind in the count and just too passive. It was obvious from the start that their pitcher had good command, and we weren’t going to be able to get his pitch count up.

So, why not have a 10 second conversion and change strategy?

 

[ababyatemydingo]

it's depressing going into a game knowing there's no chance in heck we'll win. zero. haven't had that feeling in a long time.

 

[Curby]

it's depressing going into a game knowing there's no chance in heck we'll win. zero. haven't had that feeling in a long time.

Today is possible if it’s Dohm vs Vandy’s 3rd starter.

of course, the bullpen could be the death knell

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Lemonis hasn’t just forgotten how to coach. He knows the game. I’m not saying he’s the greatest coach, but he’s far from a terrible coach. So why the terrible coaching? Could the NC have caused apathy? It’s just a head scratcher to me.

When was he good? He wasn't very good at Indiana. He let the championship team pretty much manage itself because we had a much stronger culture before Lemonis arrived. He's a decent recruiter but he's not a good coach. He should've fired his buddy Foxhall already.

 

[patdog]

Today is possible if it’s Dohm vs Vandy’s 3rd starter.

of course, the bullpen could be the death knell

How many innings do you think Dohm could give us? I agree that I think you have to start him & ride him as long as he’s effective. He’s the best pitcher we’ve got & if you don’t start him you run the risk of him not pitching any meaningful innings in a weekend you got swept.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

I went back and reread your report. I didn't mean anything by my one-word answer I'm really glad to hear something from a third-party because I am reaching the stage of apathy. I needed to know that it's all not totally lost right now. I have no idea where we're gonna go from here but at least I know we should not start at zero. MSU baseball is what started my fandom of Mississippi State athletics.

 

[8dog]

I wonder if anyone is questioning hiring an S&C coach because his wife was on the football staff. Obviously everything is under the microscope no though.

 

[kired]

So are the coaches we have incapable of teaching fundamentals? Is that why the guys that are transferring in seemingly outplaying guys that have been in our program? Our talent is nowhere near the top.of the league right now but it's pretty obvious that our whole right now is way less than the sum of the parts. I've seen some very subpar SEC teams over the years not get knocked around in embarrassing fashion as we currently are. I mean it's not just losing, heck OM is losing too, but it's the fact we can't even compete right now.

What we’ve seen over these years with baseball is kind of what we saw with football under Moorhead. 2018 defense was absolutely dominant - not because of Moorhead and Shoop. It was because of Simmons, Sweat, Abram, etc.

It’s become obvious our baseball wasn’t good 2019-2021 because of these coaches. It was Mangum, Sims, Bednar, TA, Rowdey, etc. We may be “coaching” the fundamentals but something’s missing. Call it leadership, confidence, work ethic, desire - I don’t know. But after losing those guys we just don’t have IT

 

[bully12]

Got back a short while ago from the Dude. The ceremony for G-man, Raffo, and Tatum was very good. I met and talked to a few folks there. Got to meet the new AD congratulated him and wished him luck. Told him we were pulling hard for him. I was actually pretty surprised by some of the commentary and discussions with folks close to baseball. I won't go into details, but I did not hear any warm and fuzzies or even preaching patience. There are talented kids on the field, just no one stepping up in critical situations. A 300 foot fly ball to right would have gone 375 feet today. Those big strong boys couldn't lift something at all. Only our smallest right handed hitter managed to use it. WE TAKE TOO MANY PITCHES. When they actually swing at a pitch, they are not in a position to hit it. I watched the first 5 innings in the seats and went out to the lounge for the last 4 and did not pay as much attention out there. I sat next to a guy that managed in Pro ball for 30 something years those first 5 and he was just pointing out fundamental mistakes all over the place.

Who is "G-man" for those of us who are not as close to or knowledgeable of the baseball program? Thanks.

 

[HammerOfTheDogs]

Mark Gillaspie

 

[Perd Hapley]

He let the championship team pretty much manage itself because we had a much stronger culture before Lemonis arrived.

So, has anyone reached out to Gary Henderson to see if he got his 2021 National Champions ring in the mail? After all, in just 3 short months, he established a culture of excellence that lasted a whole 3 years after his departure. As the head coach solely responsible for the 2021 national title run, it would be a shame if he wasn’t recognized in some way.

Along those same lines, since we’re about to have an opening….it seems that Henderson should be call #’s 1, 2, and 3 to return as HC. Proven commodity who now has a natty on his resume. So what if he can’t recruit? We only need him for a few weeks to set up that sweet, juicy culture and then we can fire him again and get a recruiter.

 

[knock him out john]

Got back a short while ago from the Dude. The ceremony for G-man, Raffo, and Tatum was very good. I met and talked to a few folks there. Got to meet the new AD congratulated him and wished him luck. Told him we were pulling hard for him. I was actually pretty surprised by some of the commentary and discussions with folks close to baseball. I won't go into details, but I did not hear any warm and fuzzies or even preaching patience. There are talented kids on the field, just no one stepping up in critical situations. A 300 foot fly ball to right would have gone 375 feet today. Those big strong boys couldn't lift something at all. Only our smallest right handed hitter managed to use it. WE TAKE TOO MANY PITCHES. When they actually swing at a pitch, they are not in a position to hit it. I watched the first 5 innings in the seats and went out to the lounge for the last 4 and did not pay as much attention out there. I sat next to a guy that managed in Pro ball for 30 something years those first 5 and he was just pointing out fundamental mistakes all over the place.

I appreciate your comments. Good insight. We are not experiencing Bulldog Baseball and it's heartbreaking.

 

[Drebin]

Inordinate amount of pitching injuries and lack of fundamentals. The person I talked to pantomimed lifting weights when he talked to me about it.

Lack of fundies.....been talking about this since last year. It's very evident. You gotta work on that stuff every day.

 

[Drebin]

Lemonis hasn’t just forgotten how to coach. He knows the game. I’m not saying he’s the greatest coach, but he’s far from a terrible coach. So why the terrible coaching? Could the NC have caused apathy? It’s just a head scratcher to me.

Lemonis hasn't shown that he's "far from a terrible coach." In fact, all he's shown at this point is that he is able to inherit a great team and get out of its way. But at some point you have to recruit and coach, and the more of that he does, the worse the results become.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

When was he good? He wasn't very good at Indiana. He let the championship team pretty much manage itself because we had a much stronger culture before Lemonis arrived. He's a decent recruiter but he's not a good coach. He should've fired his buddy Foxhall already.

Dude, get the facts right.

It's pretty obvious that Lemonis is a good coach as he managed a team to a title, but NOT as good of a recruiter as we thought, as now that we're 5 years in, the talent is way down. As others have said, I think he works off internet ratings and goes after travel ball superstars, and COVID recruiting made this worse.

Foxhall isn't his buddy, unless they've developed a buddy relationship over the past 5 years. He was hired at random in 2018 when Lemonis was hired.

I'm not stumping for Lemonis here. I don't really care for him or Foxhall, and not sure on GoPro and Cheese But facts are facts.

 

[thekimmer]

Lemonis hasn’t just forgotten how to coach. He knows the game. I’m not saying he’s the greatest coach, but he’s far from a terrible coach. So why the terrible coaching? Could the NC have caused apathy? It’s just a head scratcher to me.

Everybody looks at this situation and declares it does not make sense but it ultimately it does. It HAS to. This is my take on it. Lemonis knows the game. He knows how to skillfully move the pieces around the board when they are available to him. But what he obviously doesn't know how to do is build those pieces himself. He cannot manage a program where he and his staff takes raw talent and develops it into a cohesive effective team. So what we get is listless, rudderless group of players with talent that can beat the snot out of teams they can just overwhelm but have no clue how to effectively compete against teams with equivalent talent. He has no clue what to do right now. None. It is sad, embarrassing, and unacceptable.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Lemonis hasn't shown that he's "far from a terrible coach." In fact, all he's shown at this point is that he is able to inherit a great team and get out of its way. But at some point you have to recruit and coach, and the more of that he does, the worse the results become.

He took Indiana backwards too. The guy has never been a very good coach. The fact is he took over a great locker room and they added a bulldog of a pitcher to it. Beyond that, it's been a train wreck.

 

[ChatGPT]

Lemonis hasn't shown that he's "far from a terrible coach." In fact, all he's shown at this point is that he is able to inherit a great team and get out of its way. But at some point you have to recruit and coach, and the more of that he does, the worse the results become.

We had a **** you ace by the end of the season, a **** you closer, two **** you guys at the top of the order, and the best catcher in the country that year. Bednar, Sims, Rowdy, TA, and LoTan after 4 consecutive years of Supers and Mangum creating the culture was a layup coaching job. No, it didn't guarantee a Natty, but you'd have to be texting your side piece during the games to screw that one up.

 

[Xenomorph]

I sat next to a guy that managed in Pro ball for 30 something years those first 5 and he was just pointing out fundamental mistakes all over the place.

Everett Kennard says you’re just a spoiled fan.

 

[HuntDawg]

Are we really back to mangum created the culture for the natty? He was 2 years removed from that team. The team got hot at the right time. Had 2 legit starting arms, the best closer in the country, and the best hitter in the country who was hot at that time.

They also caught a Vandy team whose ace fizzled out at the end of the season.. and the other hot team was thrown out due to covid.

It takes some breaks to win it But you also have to capitalize on those Breaks. But facts are jake mangum had zero to do with The natty. Lot of great leader and Players on that team.. they deserve that credit.

 

[The Peeper]

He took Indiana backwards too.

I'm not defending him at all but they went to a Regional 3 of his 4 years there (1st yr, 3rd & 4th) and also the year after he left. It's not like they've been a national power house ever, 1 World Series and a few Big 10 Champs and that's it but doesn't appear they went "backwards" like we have under him

 

[Perd Hapley]

He took Indiana backwards too. The guy has never been a very good coach. The fact is he took over a great locker room and they added a bulldog of a pitcher to it. Beyond that, it's been a train wreck.

Took Indiana backwards? When he took over for Tracey Smith, Indiana had been to exactly 4 regionals in 65 years. That’s making a regional 6% of the time. He took them to 3 regionals in 4 years - made regionals 75% of the time. Don’t really believe I’d call that “backwards”.

The team with his recruits in the current coach’s first year also made the regionals in 2019. And they haven’t been back since.

 

[MSUDC11-2.0]

Say what you want about Lemonis but this collapse was totally unprecedented and unexpected based off his track record. It’s easy to say “well he inherited great talent” but our own history in other sports shows that a bad coach can absolutely mess up a great situation. See Moorhead, Joe. The fact that Lemonis capitalized on what he inherited speaks well to his coaching ability. And he did something as a coach that no other coach in our history has been able to do.

It’s what makes the fall from grace all the more perplexing. I can rationalize why we’d take a step back after 2021. I can’t rationalize how we’d fall all the way back to looking like far and away the worst team in the SEC the last two years.

 

[Shmuley]

The next hire should be what the previous AD declared publicly his hire would be .... but wasn't.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Are we really back to mangum created the culture for the natty? He was 2 years removed from that team. The team got hot at the right time. Had 2 legit starting arms, the best closer in the country, and the best hitter in the country who was hot at that time.

They also caught a Vandy team whose ace fizzled out at the end of the season.. and the other hot team was thrown out due to covid.

It takes some breaks to win it But you also have to capitalize on those Breaks. But facts are jake mangum had zero to do with The natty. Lot of great leader and Players on that team.. they deserve that credit.

It was all Mangum. But it was also Gary Henderson, Andy Cannizarro, and Tanner Allen, and Cohen. Hell, maybe throw Gautreau in there. Paul Gregory? Him too….he bulilt the culture that Polk piggybacked to two decades of dominance. And if that hadn’t happened there’s no Polk II which would mean no Cohen who directly or indirectly brought in the first four.

Basically everyone who touched our program before the 2019 season are the real heroes behind the 2021 national title. And everyone besides Lemonis and Foxhall after 2019 deserve credit too.

It’s simply not possible that the staff got complacent and lost focus after the biggest sports accomplishment in MSU history. They sucked the whole time….even during 2 different CWS runs over a 3 year period. Don’t let anybody tell you different.

 

[Drebin]

Say what you want about Lemonis but this collapse was totally unprecedented and unexpected based off his track record. It’s easy to say “well he inherited great talent” but our own history in other sports shows that a bad coach can absolutely mess up a great situation. See Moorhead, Joe. The fact that Lemonis capitalized on what he inherited speaks well to his coaching ability. And he did something as a coach that no other coach in our history has been able to do.

It’s what makes the fall from grace all the more perplexing. I can rationalize why we’d take a step back after 2021. I can’t rationalize how we’d fall all the way back to looking like far and away the worst team in the SEC the last two years.

But there were signs even during that season, particularly how we used the bullpen. We were just really fortunate that everything fell in place for us that year, and you need a fair amount of that during a championship season.

 

[Perd Hapley]

We had a **** you ace by the end of the season, a **** you closer, two **** you guys at the top of the order, and the best catcher in the country that year. Bednar, Sims, Rowdy, TA, and LoTan after 4 consecutive years of Supers and Mangum creating the culture was a layup coaching job. No, it didn't guarantee a Natty, but you'd have to be texting your side piece during the games to screw that one up.

The team that won it all in 2021 was still nowhere close to as talented as the 2019 team that didn’t. The “17 you” starter was our only starter. The “17 you” closer was our only consistently reliable bullpen arm.

That 2019 team had 2 MLB first round picks in the weekend rotation, 2 first round MLB picks in the middle infield, the SEC’s all time hits leader / multi-year first team all-SEC player and 4th round draft pick in one OF spot, future SEC POTY and 3rd round draft pick in another outfield spot, and another multi-year all-SEC guy in the 3rd OF spot. And Elijah McNamee and Dustin Skelton who were really good players offensively.

So how did the less talented team go farther in Year 3 than the more talented team did in Year 1? Did the culture get better? If the culture got worse, how did it happen?