It's just a club sport.....

[Trojanbulldog19]

Advantage in what?

Not much of an advantage when we aren't hosting post season play any more. Nice "newish" stadium empty in June. Welp.

 

[Dawgg]

Our fanbase has a very tough time grappling with the fact college baseball doesn’t matter at all

It matters enough to you that you have to spam every thread even tangentially related to baseball with how much baseball doesn’t matter. It’s such a tired schtick and you can’t seem to have a conversation about it without turning into a total douche.

Here’s the thing, I 17ing love Mississippi State baseball. It matters to me. It matters to my father. It matters to my kids. Some of my happiest times as a Mississippi State fan have been watching our baseball team and, yes, I love that we have the best goddam stadium in the country and 24 of the top 25 single game attendance records. I’m not alone in any of that. For 17’s sake, we won a goddam national championship.

So, 17 you for coming in here and sнitting on something we all love because it doesn’t generate as much revenue as football (which I also love). It doesn’t make money? Who gives a rat’s аss? It brings me and my family 17ing joy.

 

[She Mate Me]

We also grapple with the fact that we can’t compete in football in the modern era.

We've never competed in football in any era except for short stints. And never for the big prize.

If anything, we've competed much more effectively recently than in the first half of our football existence.

 

[ZombieKissinger]

I asked this a couple weeks ago and someone posted a clarion ledger article where the writer said that MSU baseball lost $2.3 million in 2022. No other information was given except that. So, you have no way of knowing if that is a net loss that includes depreciation or any other non-cash losses. I suspect that loss includes depreciation.

I can say with 100% certainty that MSU baseball produced a profit prior to the stadium being built. I was with a group that put together a bid for financing the stadium expansion and saw baseball only statements, they were profitable then. Not a massive profit but they were self sustaining. I can’t imagine that has changed.

Definitely would need an accountant to verify this…. But seems like I remember there being odd rules around the way revenue is recognized for multi year commitments, such as donations pledged to be able to have club seats or chairbacks. I’m not sure that money coming in for past pledge amounts is “revenue” for the year it’s received. My point is, I’m not sure an income statement is the best way to evaluate if baseball is profitable. I think you’re gonna need a cash flow statement as well. I’m sure we have an accountant on here, so please correct this if I’m way off (which I probably am).

Yeah, I would want to see full financial statements and any footnotes. To your point, I don’t trust some random author of an article to understand some of the nuance, so I have trouble believing profit/loss unless I’ve seen it myself or talked to someone who looked themselves. The fact that you saw it as part of a bid makes me feel much more confident in what you saw than the quote about losing a couple million.

 

[Lumpy1055]

Yay attendance! Glad to see it is helping in recruiting and getting these top portal players…

 

[aTotal360]

Let this thread be Exhibit A on why State fans are the worst on the planet. I hate us.

 

[Maroon13]

Does anyone have actual financial statements with baseball numbers? I’ve heard we lose money, but I’d be happy to publicly analyze them. Or are the losses just based on articles from people who have information that isn’t generally public?

Yeah I'm calling BS on that too. Between sold out season tickets, premium seating, the Lofts and other private donations.... baseball does just fine I'm sure.

 

[Maroon13]

Our fanbase has a very tough time grappling with the fact college baseball doesn’t matter at all

It matters to State fans. when a school has something that the fans like, sell it to them. Why would you dismiss something that is a huge tradition and well love piece of our athletic department.

Furthermore ... sit down for this, it may blow your mind...... people that support baseball and like baseball.... support and like football. WOW!

 

[retire the banner]

It matters enough to you that you have to spam every thread even tangentially related to baseball with how much baseball doesn’t matter. It’s such a tired schtick and you can’t seem to have a conversation about it without turning into a total douche.

Here’s the thing, I 17ing love Mississippi State baseball. It matters to me. It matters to my father. It matters to my kids. Some of my happiest times as a Mississippi State fan have been watching our baseball team and, yes, I love that we have the best goddam stadium in the country and 24 of the top 25 single game attendance records. I’m not alone in any of that. For 17’s sake, we won a goddam national championship.

So, 17 you for coming in here and sнitting on something we all love because it doesn’t generate as much revenue as football (which I also love). It doesn’t make money? Who gives a rat’s аss? It brings me and my family 17ing joy.

I just changed my mind about everything since college baseball matters to you and your family.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

We've never competed in football in any era except for short stints. And never for the big prize.

If anything, we've competed much more effectively recently than in the first half of our football existence.

Have you all still not fully come to grips with the difference between now and the Mullen Era?

Leach competed, yes, but again, he's a niche guy. Will Lebby be? We will see.

 

[retire the banner]

I went to Omaha in ‘21 for 4 days and cried when we won. I care about Mississippi State.

But I’m not going to pretend about college baseball either. If we continue to have fans who want to pit baseball vs other sports, put it on a pedestal, and pretend it’s the most important sport at MSU then there will always be this type of discussion.

We’re the only SEC school who has fans that want to steer support & money away from football and MBB and give solely to baseball. That’s asinine and I will always call it out. It’s a message board so it probably doesn’t mean much, but I don’t want to see MSU commit suicide. Our priorities are misaligned and it will eventually result in the baseball program suffering, which is ironic.

 

[retire the banner]

Yeah, I would want to see full financial statements and any footnotes. To your point, I don’t trust some random author of an article to understand some of the nuance, so I have trouble believing profit/loss unless I’ve seen it myself or talked to someone who looked themselves. The fact that you saw it as part of a bid makes me feel much more confident in what you saw than the quote about losing a couple million.

Yeah I'm calling BS on that too. Between sold out season tickets, premium seating, the Lofts and other private donations.... baseball does just fine I'm sure.

Baseball has lost money essentially every year. The new numbers for ‘23 should be released later this month. I imagine it will look similar to years past - about a 1-2 million loss. I doubt people would lie about it losing money. That would be a very strange thing to do.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Baseball has lost money essentially every year. The new numbers for ‘23 should be released later this month. I imagine it will look similar to years past - about a 1-2 million loss. I doubt people would lie about it losing money. That would be a very strange thing to do.

When you want donations to keep flowing in, pretending that you're losing money is a good strategy.

 

[Shmuley]

Does anyone have actual financial statements with baseball numbers? I’ve heard we lose money, but I’d be happy to publicly analyze them. Or are the losses just based on articles from people who have information that isn’t generally public?

Which begs the question: if baseball generates positive net revenue, why are those data not made public, or at least made a talking point? Perhaps we know the answer without getting an answer.

 

[ZombieKissinger]

Baseball has lost money essentially every year. The new numbers for ‘23 should be released later this month. I imagine it will look similar to years past - about a 1-2 million loss. I doubt people would lie about it losing money. That would be a very strange thing to do.

I’m not saying they’re lying. It’s just that there’s different ways to interpret financial statements, and it’d be interesting to see the breakdown

 

[jdbulldog]

Our fanbase has a very tough time grappling with the fact college baseball doesn’t matter at all

Many folks have a hard time grappling with the fact college baseball matters to a lot of people.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

MSU baseball is my favorite sport. I don't get the hate for it. What do yall wanna do,, do away with everything except football and basketball? Who gives a 17 if it doesn't return a profit I could care 17ing less. That's not my job to worry about.

We have some miserable fans. I love going to the Dude, no matter what. It's the one thing we are know for.

 

[retire the banner]

Many folks have a hard time grappling with the fact college baseball matters to a lot of people.

I think it’s great we care about it. I don’t think it’s great that it’s more of priority than football or that people would like reduce our resources given to football and give to baseball.

 

[MSUDC11-2.0]

There is nothing wrong with being a big baseball fan. Just gotta see it for what it is, though. And if your administration is prioritizing it as anything other than a number 3 or 4 sport, their priorities are out of order.

I don’t think that’s an issue with Selmon though like it definitely was with Cohen and maybe was with Stricklin.

 

[85Bears]

Many folks have a hard time grappling with the fact college baseball matters to a lot of people.

Or even a harder time grappling with the fact that the baseball and basketball programs can compete at the highest level and football can not. football gets the same sec welfare check either way.

 

[MStateDawg]

Especially considering the grandstand seats are an inherited spot

The stadium was rebuilt just a few years ago. At that time, EVERYONE who wanted seats had the opportunity to buy them. NOBODY was denied grandstand seats that was willing to purchase them.

They get the equivalent of 1989 football season ticket prices for their seats.

This is nonsense. I get 4 season tickets for baseball & football. The per seat season ticket prices are within $100 of each other and even with the BDC required donation, the price difference is less than $300 total for 4 seats. Below is an excerpt from the payment notes I keep:

 

[The Peeper]

I’m not sure why you’re using attendance in a particular sport at a particular school to make this argument.

it’s well documented that there are a handful of schools in the SEC, Mississippi State included, who support and show up for college baseball games. But unfortunately, that doesn’t mean that college baseball will now magically begin to produce revenue enough to generate a profit or become more popular nation-wide. It’s a niche sport. That’s great if you support it, but it doesn’t matter enough to affect Mississippi State’s athletic budget, the university, or the city of Starkville. I’m glad you like it though, I hope we win every game. I’m sure MSU baseball matters a lot to Mike in Kosciusko.

I don't believe I've said anywhere in this thread anything about revenue or it "producing a profit" other than the original post saying that almost 11,000 fans show up and buy tickets, and that's more than a "club sport"? You're the one that started down talking revenue production from the start.

You don't think a 3 game weekend series is welcomed by the City of Starkville and the University? The hotels, sit down restaurants, fast food outlets, beer distributors, gas pumps, grocery stores, VRBO/AirBNB, The Lodge, Camus Book Mart, all love to see a 3 game series at home. Bringing fans back to the campus generates interest and DONATIONS.

You need to come to terms with those mean people at Dudy Noble that wouldn't let you sit in their chairbacks or have a piece of sausage that time you tried to go. Point to where they hurt you...... You need to come out of your bubble and see that there's not just a few hundred fans over there on the weekend paying $5 to see a "club sport" like golf, track, tennis, etc.

 

[BulldogBlitz]

- about a 1-2 million loss.

With average attendance being 10k, a $3-$6 bump in individual ticket price will wipe that loss.

 

[Maroon13]

Baseball has lost money essentially every year. The new numbers for ‘23 should be released later this month. I imagine it will look similar to years past - about a 1-2 million loss. I doubt people would lie about it losing money. That would be a very strange thing to do.

Just for curiosity (I'm not pitting one against another) but what are basketball numbers?

Because I don't believe basketball sells as many regular tickets or brings in premium seat revenue that baseball does at MSU.

 

[MSUDC11-2.0]

Just for curiosity (I'm not pitting one against another) but what are basketball numbers?

Because I don't believe basketball sells as many regular tickets or brings in premium seat revenue that baseball does at MSU.

Biggest difference is basketball gets TV rights revenue. Baseball does not.

 

[Maroon13]

Which begs the question: if baseball generates positive net revenue, why are those data not made public, or at least made a talking point? Perhaps we know the answer without getting an answer.

I'm going conspiracy theory here....

I get the hunch this current AD staff floats talking points to the masses through different intermediaries in order to grease the skids for future decisions..

 

[Maroon13]

Biggest difference is basketball gets TV rights revenue. Baseball does not.

Exactly. So one gets a welfare check and the other doesn't. However standing alone, one would be in the red every year and another not.

 

[bulldawgs231]

Exactly. So one gets a welfare check and the other doesn't. However standing alone, one would be in the red every year and another not.

One gets a check for being a marketable product. The other is a regional sport no one cares about hence no tv money

 

[The Peeper]

Yay attendance! Glad to see it is helping in recruiting and getting these top portal players…

Same for football, except for attendance. All of these 4 win predictions have fans really fired up and top portal players flocking in........

Biggest difference is basketball gets TV rights revenue. Baseball does not.

From the SEC website concerning the new ESPN Football SEC deal:

"The new agreement is separate and in addition to existing agreements with ESPN for events in football, men's and women's basketball, baseball and softball, as well as the agreement that created and under which ESPN operates the SEC Network. These existing agreements also continue through 2033-34"

 

[The Peeper]

One gets a check for being a marketable product. The other is a regional sport no one cares about hence no tv money

Wrong.

"The new agreement is separate and in addition to existing agreements with ESPN for events in football, men's and women's basketball, baseball and softball, as well as the agreement that created and under which ESPN operates the SEC Network. These existing agreements also continue through 2033-34"

 

[gtowndawg]

North Dakota averages over 11,000 for college hockey. Do we care? Of course not. College Baseball = College Hockey. Fun but doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things like football and men's basketball.

 

[Lumpy1055]

Same for football, except for attendance. All of these 4 win predictions have fans really fired up and top portal players flocking in........

From the SEC website concerning the new ESPN Football SEC deal:

"The new agreement is separate and in addition to existing agreements with ESPN for events in football, men's and women's basketball, baseball and softball, as well as the agreement that created and under which ESPN operates the SEC Network. These existing agreements also continue through 2033-34"

I think people are excited to see what happens in football this year with Jeff Lebby, his offensive staff has done pretty damn well in the portal, defense...that might be a different story. Jans did exceptionally well in the portal. We like to think of the history of State baseball and how we are one of the "big boys" but we have a coaching staff that is scared about recruits and portal players getting publicized, afraid some other school is going to come in and take a player that visited. We can tout attendance and stadium all day long, they are great, its awesome we have the support we do for a program but would be a lot better to tout Omaha trips, Nattys, etc...over a "attendance championship". At this point its overplayed and irrelevant especially when we are getting passed by teams with smaller stadiums and attendance numbers.

 

[bulldawgs231]

Wrong.

"The new agreement is separate and in addition to existing agreements with ESPN for events in football, men's and women's basketball, baseball and softball, as well as the agreement that created and under which ESPN operates the SEC Network. These existing agreements also continue through 2033-34"

And football/basketball create 98% of the revenue for that deal. They have to put the other sports in their due to SEC demands but ESPN would gladly cut all of those. Do you really think ESPN wants to spend money covering a sport that 12 people watch?

 

[Shmuley]

I think people are excited to see what happens in football this year with Jeff Lebby, his offensive staff has done pretty damn well in the portal, defense...that might be a different story. Jans did exceptionally well in the portal. We like to think of the history of State baseball and how we are one of the "big boys" but we have a coaching staff that is scared about recruits and portal players getting publicized, afraid some other school is going to come in and take a player that visited. We can tout attendance and stadium all day long, they are great, its awesome we have the support we do for a program but would be a lot better to tout Omaha trips, Nattys, etc...over a "attendance championship". At this point its overplayed and irrelevant especially when we are getting passed by teams with smaller stadiums and attendance numbers.

I liken this to the drag car driver who is handed a great vehicle, but he $h!+s his pants at the tree. Lemonis $h!+s his pants when it counts. He is exactly what we thought he was when he was hired and sold as the "secret behind McDonnell's success." Cohen bull$h!+.

 

[The Peeper]

And football/basketball create 98% of the revenue for that deal. They have to put the other sports in their due to SEC demands but ESPN would gladly cut all of those. Do you really think ESPN wants to spend money covering a sport that 12 people watch?

They've just completed broadcasting 119 games of Regionals and Super Regionals and have 16 (maybe 17 more) on this week of World Series games for those 12 people, but I'm sure they don't want to........

 

[Dawgg]

North Dakota averages over 11,000 for college hockey. Do we care? Of course not. College Baseball = College Hockey. Fun but doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things like football and men's basketball.

I don't think men's basketball means all that much nationally either except for about 2 weeks in March between the time people put their brackets together and the time their brackets get busted.

 

[Maroon13]

North Dakota averages over 11,000 for college hockey. Do we care? Of course not. College Baseball = College Hockey. Fun but doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things like football and men's basketball.

I get money is the "grand scheme of things ", specifically TV money. However basketball is third in regards to my support and for many other State fans. And I couldn't care less what someone at espn or New York thinks about that.

I don't know the details of our revenue streams for each sport and how those revenues can be allocated to cover expenses of other sports. But seeing terms used like "de-emphasize" and "club sport" is a mistaken belief at Mississippi State specifically.

Regarding all this de-emphasizing talk and what it means.... is our football recruiting budget near last in the sec because baseball gets top money for assistant coaches? I doubt it. It's probably because football jist doesn't sell enough tickets and receive enough contributions. I do know our football recruiting budget needs to be Increased. But I think you need to do whatever you have to, to pay coaching salaries and recruiting for baseball. AND to find a way to increase the football recruiting budget as well.

Basketball..... I could not care less. I think it would be a huge mistake at Mississippi State to cut baseball expenses in favor of basketball because what espn thinks. If basketball wants or needs more money, Put in more premium seats and have the fans buy those. Make basketball earn their own money and find a way.

 

[retire the banner]

Just for curiosity (I'm not pitting one against another) but what are basketball numbers?

Because I don't believe basketball sells as many regular tickets or brings in premium seat revenue that baseball does at MSU.

I think basketball generates in the $5-10MM profit range on average. For Auburn, it generated $20MM in profit last year, as this article points out. They made a conscious effort to invest in basketball about 10 years ago and it’s paid off. I really wish we had this type of leadership. Prior to the 2010s, we had a much better history and basketball program than Auburn, we had more NCAATS, SECT championships, and final fours. It all comes down to leadership and commitment with football and Men’s basketball.

Auburn chose to invest in men’s basketball. It built an SEC juggernaut.

Auburn is spending record numbers on men's basketball. It's winning in record numbers, too.

www.al.com

Winning is more of a choice than people on here would like to believe. Sure, you can put all your eggs in one basket, make a bad hire & it not work out. But if you have the right leadership and make the correct strategic choices, wins will follow. We aren’t doomed in the future of collegiate athletics if we make wise decisions. We have the resources to be successful.

 

[KentuckyDawg13]

Since we have so many rabid fans, seems like MSU should be able to easily afford the NIL $ituation and buy some talent.
I don't keep up with it at all, don't care.
Just a stupid observation for the peanut gallery.
Carry on.

 

[She Mate Me]

Have you all still not fully come to grips with the difference between now and the Mullen Era?

Leach competed, yes, but again, he's a niche guy. w Will Lebby be? We will see.

I was talking about our history since you used the term modern era. I guess that is a 2 or 3 year span to you and anything before Mullen is not worth talking about.

Leach's last team in 2022 (we are a single season removed from that) was as good as Mullen's best teams (don't believe me, just look at computer ratings).

The sky may indeed be falling, but the evidence of it is not very old.