I've never seen this and DAMN, I am ready for football season....

dawgstudent

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dawgstudent

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dawgstudent

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dawgstudent

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Shmuley

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Croom Quote: "We've got character. We'll continue to add talent to it. And we'll continue our quest to win a conference championship."

Gets the blood flowing.

I would, however, like to hear him saying something to the effect, "We'll do whatever it takes to generate an offense, even if it means making a coaching change to do it."

But, alas, I'll take what I can get at this point.
 

Coach34

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character my ***...Fla and LSU arent loaded with character- they are loaded with 17'ing toughness, speed and more speed...

show me some 17'ing offense- not character
 

Coach34

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Case in point- LSU won the SEC championship game with a QB that had ZERO character. None Nada...

We dont need anymore 17'ing character</p>
 

jwbigcreek

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I'll take character over lack thereof all day long. Obviously, we need more talent (cause all things ain't equal with the LUS's, etc. of the conference).</p>
 

patdog

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that's had as many dramatic finishes for both teams as the Egg Bowl has in the last decade or so. That one still gives me chill bumps, just like so many of the others do.
 

Todd4State

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Coach34 said:
character my ***...Fla and LSU arent loaded with character- they are loaded with 17'ing toughness, speed and more speed...

show me some 17'ing offense- not character

</p>To be honest, I'd rather have a team that has character than speed. Character can overcome some things that you might lack- like speed and talent.

Look at Jerry Rice. Not the fastest guy in the world, but he was smart and tough, ran precise routes and worked harder than everyone else.

Also, see Walter Payton, Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Brett Favre, and etc.

When you get guys like I mentioned above who have talent and character, then you're talking Championships- just like Croom said. We'll see if he can get those guys, but if he can't, we need to keep on getting guys that have character.

Remember the last few years under Sherrill, we had some guys that were great athletes. Not very many of them had good character though, and you know the results.

By the way, LSU also won the National Championship with a guy named Jacob Hester who had a TON of character. You can't deny that, although I'm sure you will. I'd also say that Matt Flynn had a lot of character as well. Just ask your neighbors what they think about him. And if you're saying that Ryan Perriloux won them the NC, you're beyond hope.
 

Todd4State

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might be the most underrated rivalry game in the country. Of course, that happens when you have two teams that are usually playing for nothing other than pride. Or to try to screw up the others bowl bid.

I hope our new marketing strategy includes promoting some of past Egg Bowl wins that you never hear about. Like Mardye McDole's one handed catch and Jesse Anderson's catch in 1987. I'm a HUGE State fan, and I've never seen the Jesse Anderson play.
 

dawgstudent

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but to say one game proves you can win with the Ryan Perrilloux's of the world is not proof for me. With that being said, I would have taken a chance on him.

And Coach34 denying his man love for Hester. Seriously, don't you remember this?....

 

Todd4State

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I guess my first mistake was assuming that coach was smart enough to base his arguement on a season instead of one game. My second mistake was reading comprehension based.

But I do remember the man crush that coach has for Hester, and that's why I brought it up. I was hoping someone would bring that picture out. Thanks for coming through.

But yeah, you may some games with a QB with no character- heck we won some with Derrick Taite, but probably not a Championship. And if you did win one, I'm pretty sure that you would have to have some players with character that could overcome the lack of character at other positions.

The point remains that you can't win consistently without at least having some character, though.
 

Coach34

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from Jackson Prep and play South Panola with a team of little character but plenty of toughness and speed. I'm not saying great athletes cant have character, but character should not be the 1st thing you look for. How many "character" guys are back-ups or dont even make rosters because of guys like Terrell Owens, Pac-Man Jones, Lawrence Phillips, Ryan Perillouix, Micheal Irvin, Nate Newton, Plaxico Burress.? Micheal Irvin is a crackhead and so is Nate Newton, but they were very instrumental in winning 3 SB's.

How many NC's did The U win with very little character? Nebraska? 20/20 did a show on them for all the arrests the Huskers had...LSU? Yeah, they have some character guys, but they have plenty of outlaws too. I didnt say Perillouix won them a NC, but he led them to an SEC championship game victory. He also came in and made some big plays for them during the season.

Ask Urban Meyer about character- his defensive captain last season led the team in arrests...</p>
 

Coach34

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read the book that talks about The U and how they built the program. It also talks about how the coaches had to talk with gang leaders to get permission to talk with potential signees. That book is full of Miami's "character" and the championships
 

dawgstudent

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If our coaches have to barter with gang leaders, I really don't want that player. That might be where you draw the line.
 

Coach34

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dawgstudent said:
If our coaches have to barter with gang leaders, I really don't want that player. That might be where you draw the line.

</p>I even heard McCartney from Colorado speak about doing this in his hey day in Boulder. I cant imagine having to do **** like that. But obviously it was commonplace. You really ought to read the book about Miami football. One of the top recruiters for the Canes back in the day? Luther Campbell. As much as I love the 2 Live Crew, i will never confuse him with character.
 

Todd4State

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the kind of people I want associated with MSU- gang bangers.

Now how many teams have won Championships with guys who had great character? Look at Bear Bryant's teams at Bama. Steve Whitman, Steadman Shealy, etc. and then throw in some guys like Dwight Stephenson. Look at the the 1980 Georgia Bulldogs, many of the great Notre Dame teams from the 70's and 80's, just about every National Championship team had guys with great character.

Nebraska had some sorry people on their team like Lawrence Philips, but guess who was blocking for him? That's right 5 farm boys from Nebraska that loved Nebraska football. Heck, Nebraska is very well known for their walk-on program. I don't know many bloods or crips that are willing to pay their way to get on a team anywhere.

And yes, Miami has won NC's, but they've also had to basically tear down their program and build it back up again a few times becuase of the problems that they have had. I'd rather not go through that again, if at all possible.

I'm not saying that you don't have to have talent- you do- but if you have guys that have tons of athletic ability but are punks, you better have some people like Barrin Simpson that can balance things out. In a perfect world, you would have people that have talent and character, but there are only so many Walter Payton's in the world, and it's even less likely that a MSU could load up on players like that, although it would be nice.</p>
 

squirldawg

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look at Nebraska, Florida under Spurrier, and many of the Alabama teams that Croom is so fond of. The main thing is that you have to convince your players to play the way you want them to play and for Croom that is with character. You can be great in life with character or without. I would prefer to be with.
 

Todd4State

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Prep as an example after they thumped a faster Pearl team 50-0. I don't think they would beat South Panola, but no one else in the state would either. I will say Prep wouldn't do any worse than many of the 5A teams against them.

Plus, that Bryant Salmon kid was FAST.
 

Coach34

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" just about every National Championship team had guys with great character"

If you go back and look at my post, it didnt say we didnt need ANY character, it said we dont need MORE character as Crooms said in the video. We need more talent, not character. We need more offense, not character.

The U teams that won titles, Oklahoma and Barry Switzer won titles with guys shooting oozies off of the dorm roof and QB's selling coke, Nebraska led the nation in arrests one of the years they won a title....Of course you need some character, but you need toughness and speed more.</p>

"the kind of people I want associated with MSU- gang bangers."

Those gang-bangers have National Title rings...I damn well wish they had been part of MSU cause we'd have one too

</p>

</p>
 

FlabLoser

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While UF and LSU have their share of thugs, they've been loaded with the intestinal fortitude that Croom speaks of. Hester? Tebow?
 

Coach34

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I used Prep because while their kids that play extremely hard, have tremendous pride in their school and their tradition, and are somewhat talented- it shows you that at some point character doesnt matter anymore. Why? Because a more talented individual is going to beat you more times than not because it doesnt matter how much character you got- he is just better.</p>

Talent > character</p>

I learned this as a 215 pound HS offensive lineman going against guys that weighed 250, 275, and 300. It didnt matter how much character I had or the fact that I had perfect form- they had more talent and were headed off to play college ball and I was headed to play baseball.</p>
 
T

tookieknuck.nafoom

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The last time you had a team full of dumb thugs you almost won an SEC championship
 

Todd4State

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he said, "we will continue to bring in guys who have character and then we will add talent to it."

And if you think Rocky Felker could have won a NC with those guys from Miami, you're wrong.

You may want a team full of gang banging thugs that are good athletes.

I want a team with charcter and talent- like Croom said. Reason being because at some point, the chips are going to be down, and a lot of times those guys with world class speed hang their heads and quit. They need somebody to push them to not quit. And a lot of times those guys from Prep or wherever play hard and their attitude rubs off on the guys with talent and it takes them to another level. Remember the 1992 Sugar Bowl with Alabama and Miami? We would be doing our players a HUGE disservice if we didn't at least try to teach them to use the talent that God gave them and how to succeed. You may succeed in Mississippi High School football by having things given to you, but more often than not life doesn't work that way- and the NFL sure doesn't work that way. You succeed in life with hard work.

Oh, and I'd like to have some of Bama's NC rings as well. </p>
 

Coach34

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"and the NFL sure doesn't work that way."

signed,

Nate Newton, Micheal Irvin, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, and Pac-Man Jones, and the 1970's Oakland Raiders
 

Todd4State

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you may not beat someone all the time with more talent, but last time I checked, football was a team sport. A team with character can close the gap in talent and give themselves a shot to win.

There are also numerous examples of underdogs beating more talented teams. USA vs Russia in hockey.
 

SLUdog

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showed character and leadership on the football field all year. RP is a great athlete but he was not the leader of that team. He wasn't the QB who led them all year. Lsu won because of their leadership and character in close games.
 

Coach34

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I said RP led them to an SEC Championship Game victory. He called the plays, took the snaps, and had an extremely good day leading their offense. Jacob Hester's character didnt matter the year before when Jamarcus Russell fumbled the snap on Fla's 1 yard line and totally changed that game and their season. His character didnt matter then when it mattered the most for LSU, just lik it didnt matter when RP QB'ed them to the SEC title in Atl
 

Todd4State

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Nate Newton had to lose a LOT of weight to continue his NFL career- and he did. He also had to make the NFL as an undrafted player from the USFL, I'd say that requires some character. Too bad he used poor judgement with his marijuana.

Micheal Irvin probably ran his mouth too much, but he also was one of the toughest receivers in the NFL and was noted for his work ethic. He also admits that he made a lot of mistakes that he regrets and could have been even greater had he not made them. I bet he would also tell you that he would have helped his team even more had he been more focused on the NFL.

Randy Moss and TO are both noted for their work ethic. TO may run his mouth too much, but he also may work harder than any other receiver in the NFL.

Adam Jones may be out of football because of his behavior, even though he will get another chance we'll see what he does with it.

the 70's Raiders had as much character as any team in the NFL. They were a bunch of cast offs and had everything to prove. Those teams played very hard on game day. And they had guys like Gene Upshaw, Art Shell, Ray Guy, and Fred Biletnikoff to off set their Jack Tatum's.

All of those players you mentioned had to work hard to stay in the NFL and succeed. Except for Adam Jones, but the jury is still out on him, and if he wants to stay in the NFL, he is certainly going to have to work harder now to stay in the league. Many of them made mistakes at points in their life, but if you sat down and ask them, I guarantee you that they would say that they would have been better players had they worked harder and stayed more focused on their game.

We shouldn't encourage mediocrity on the field of off of it.</p>
 

Coach34

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Micheal Irvin and Nate Newton- cokeheads...their parties are legendary in Dallas. Makes for a good read as well

Randy Moss and TO are characters- doesnt mean they have it. Mass murderers may work hard, but it doesnt give them character</p>

Adam Jones is a piece of ****. But he made lots of plays before getting kicked out and will make lots of plays this upcoming season...why? Talent- not character</p>

Oakland Raiders-1970's- were a bunch of drug-taking partiers that drank too much. Yes they brought it on gameday, but I dont know if character describes Alzado, Matusak, Villipiano, and the other idiots they had.</p>

</p>
 

HD6

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for every NFL championship you list that has been won by Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, and Adam Jones. I mean, that's what were talking about right, winning? The closest Randy Moss has ever gotten was when he went to a team that most people believe has a lot of character in the locker room. As far as the Raiders go, they did win one Super Bowl. In that same decade, the Steelers, who by and large you wouldn't associate with that kind of behavior, won four. The Dolphins, same thing, won two. Look at the recent Super Bowls. Giants, Colts, Steelers, Patriots, Bucs. None of those teams had guys continually being arrested that I can remember. The only thing that stands out is Keyshawn Johnson in Tampa, but his real troubles began the year after they won. As far as Irvin and Newton go, you got two guys on the team. Can we have some other names? Were Aikman, Emmitt, Charles Haley, Darryl Johnston, and the whole damn team involved, or can you just cherrypick those two as examples to fit your theory? I admit I haven't read this book, but I don't think I'm going to be wrong on this one.

Furthermore, I will give you a dollar for a list of Terrell Owens has been arrested. He may be an idiot, but he's not a thug. There's a difference, for example, you're not a thug.

At the end of day, the kind of character Croom is talking about isn't helping little old ladies across the street. It's about not being a quitter and doing the things it takes to win. You can't just show up on gameday, you have to put in work off the field to win. It's about a team getting dominated for 40 minutes of a game but finding a way to make plays when it matters and winning. But of course, you don't realize that, you just infer the wrong conclusion as you do pretty much every time you offer an opinion. But at least you're reliable, I know every time I click on your post, I'm about to read something moronic.
 

HD6

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Really? He called the plays? Goddamn, you are stupid.

Did I also imagine LSU losing in the fourth quarter and returning an interception for a touchdown to take the lead? And then Tennessee turning it over aGAIN deep in LSU territory with a chance to win? Perrilloux may have been the MVP, but Erik Ainge was the reason the Tigers won.

And Perrilloux's prize for being a thug? He gets to finish his career at Jacksonville State. I'm sure that's just how he imagined it growing up. I wonder if LSU will even send him a championship ring. And man, I can't wait to see how the NFL teams grill him pre-draft.
 
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