Jackson, you're number 1

[HumpDawgy]

And you get it from the damn old Nasty Bunch.

I thought it was called the Carmody Clap.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Ok, 57,000 instead of 50,000.

Jackson Population

Did you compare the population percentages by race, the median incomes, percentage living below the poverty level, median home values, educational levels etc etc etc ? If you do you'll see that Jackson and Little Rock have some fairly stark differences other than just population numbers.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Did you compare the population percentages by race, the median incomes, percentage living below the poverty level, median home values, educational levels etc etc etc ? If you do you'll see that Jackson and Little Rock have some fairly stark differences other than just population numbers.

This was my original question. The numbers are the same, but LR isn't seeing the mass exodus to the suburbs. Why is Jackson seeing this middle class flight so much more pronounced than other areas? It can't be all race, all those towns have significant white and black bases of people. And if we're worried about voting demographics, why didn't Jackson do anything about this sort of thing back in the day?

 

[thatsbaseball]

This was my original question. The numbers are the same, but LR isn't seeing the mass exodus to the suburbs. Why is Jackson seeing this middle class flight so much more pronounced than other areas? It can't be all race, all those towns have significant white and black bases of people. And if we're worried about voting demographics, why didn't Jackson do anything about this sort of thing back in the day?

I don't claim to know that much about Little Rock but I'd bet they haven't made as horrible leadership choices as Jackson. YET

 

[RockyDog]

The state cannot protect it's interests while making residents live outside of and then commute through a "no-go" zone to get to state owned properties. The state needs some taxpaying citizens to remain in Jackson proper and for there to be a place for government workers to live without having a 40+ minute commute. How exactly do you propose we get people to work for state government. Your pitch would apparently be something like "Your pay will probably be below other states, and you'll also have to commute 40+ minutes, you'll be at greater risk of crime anytime you're not on government owned property. And PERS is underfunded enough that there will eventually be haircuts on your retirement. When can you start?"

The CCID won't make that pitch a lot better (except for UMMC doctors that can afford to live in eastover), but it's at least a small step. And it will help keep things like the children's museum viable for longer by reducing crime along the northern routes used to get there. It's just absurd to say that the State doesn't have an interest in having any portion of the capital city off government property have things like running water, reasonable levels of safety, decent roads, etc.

The rest of hte state puts a lot of money into State government and they deserve to have some parts of the capital city be functional.

He is one of those crusty old Supertalk listeners that sit around all day with a pad and paper watching the comings and goings of state workers and complains about the spending of HIS tax dollars.

 

[Mobile Bay]

The question I have is, why is Jackson having such problems and nowhere else? Jackson has a similar situation as Shreveport, Macon and Montgomery as far as core cities of similar size. But the problem is, those cities metro populations are about half of Jackson. And also, those 3 I mentioned are not the business AND governmental centers of their whole state.

Then you have bigger cities that have similar dynamics such as New Orleans, Memphis and Birmingham. Those cities are just too big to fail, so ultimately there is some outer investment in the inner cities.

So the issue is finding a city that is similar to Jackson, to look at and see why it's doing better while Jackson is not. The best I can find is Mobile, with a similar core population and metro population, even though slightly smaller with the overall metro. Maybe Columbia, SC? That's a capital city and business center. Of course, they have the university there, which is a big boost.

So I keep coming back to Mobile. While it's not the business and governmental center, it's still similar and was on a bad path for a long time. The state docks was about all they had. What happened? Well - two things. Airbus in 2012, and they finally elected a mayor who cared in 2013. So yeah I'm with you. They got Continental Tire (at least close by). Until that mayor situation gets resolved, it's over. But I can't see it happening now because too much of the population has now left.

Kind of wish Continental had located inside the city limits, because things would get improved based just on that. Still in Hinds County I guess.

The port of Mobile is the 11th largest port in the USA and is only going to get WAY bigger with the ongoing expansion of the Mobile Ship Channel. It's predicted to pass New Orleans once this project is fully completed. Plus it's a major chemical manufacturing hub with something like 14 facilities located in areas around Mobile like Chickasaw, Theodore, Axis, and yes, even Prichard.

The other thing is Mobile still has a downtown you would want to go to. The RSA investments there are a major source of revenue for the city and support a lot of thriving small businesses by bringing in the out of town money.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

The port of Mobile is the 11th largest port in the USA and is only going to get WAY bigger with the ongoing expansion of the Mobile Ship Channel. It's predicted to pass New Orleans once this project is fully completed. Plus it's a major chemical manufacturing hub with something like 14 facilities located in areas around Mobile like Chickasaw, Theodore, Axis, and yes, even Prichard.

The other thing is Mobile still has a downtown you would want to go to. The RSA investments there are a major source of revenue for the city and support a lot of thriving small businesses by bringing in the out of town money.

I know all that junk. All of that contributes to what Mobile is today, which is a city similar in size, but smaller, than Jackson (metro areas). I'm not here trying to figure out jobs and what not, Jackson has plenty of them, that's why people live there. I didn't mean this to shine the glory all over Mobile, as it still sucks pretty hard. It's just somewhat viable and isn't a total turnoff like Jack-town.

My question is why has Mobile been able to turn things around the get people in there who want to do good things? Airbus was a lot of it but Stimpson was elected well before the Airbus gains were realized.

 

[Boom Boom]

The state cannot protect it's interests while making residents live outside of and then commute through a "no-go" zone to get to state owned properties. The state needs some taxpaying citizens to remain in Jackson proper and for there to be a place for government workers to live without having a 40+ minute commute. How exactly do you propose we get people to work for state government. Your pitch would apparently be something like "Your pay will probably be below other states, and you'll also have to commute 40+ minutes, you'll be at greater risk of crime anytime you're not on government owned property. And PERS is underfunded enough that there will eventually be haircuts on your retirement. When can you start?"

The CCID won't make that pitch a lot better (except for UMMC doctors that can afford to live in eastover), but it's at least a small step. And it will help keep things like the children's museum viable for longer by reducing crime along the northern routes used to get there. It's just absurd to say that the State doesn't have an interest in having any portion of the capital city off government property have things like running water, reasonable levels of safety, decent roads, etc.

The rest of hte state puts a lot of money into State government and they deserve to have some parts of the capital city be functional.

Or maybe the problem isn't the cops and judges? In which case, this is punting on actually addressing the real issues, right?

 

[Boom Boom]

You're just so wrong it's difficult to even attempt to reason with you. The backlogs are long. The judges are just releasing criminals and not filing basic paperwork in a reasonable timeframe. No matter what, at best, they are understaffed. The only real question is whether it needs to come from the CCID or the City of Jackson.

We can build more jails. That's always been just a terrible rationale. You can't release criminals because your jail is full, you build more. Period. You can't break the law.

The gravy train you refer to is the one that prevented the water system from being maintained. It runs through the City of Jackson, not the state.

It's really hard to take YOU seriously when you look at your first sentence, then your last two. Sure buddy, state politicians aren't getting any grift at all. Suuuuure. Brett Favre says hi.

I can be reasoned with more than fine, if you make a reasonable argument. Try it. Your position is what exactly? Jackson crime is being punished less severely than the past? Jax crime has increased and the jails can't keep up with the felons? This is different from other parts of the state or other cities in what way?

 

[Boom Boom]

I know all that junk. All of that contributes to what Mobile is today, which is a city similar in size, but smaller, than Jackson (metro areas). I'm not here trying to figure out jobs and what not, Jackson has plenty of them, that's why people live there.

My question is why has Mobile been able to turn things around the get people in there who want to do good things? Airbus was a lot of it but Stimpson was elected well before the Airbus gains were realized.

I can tell you one factor: drugs are moved on I 20, not I 10.

 

[TaleofTwoDogs]

2. Most folks in Fondren/Belhaven/Eastover knew the deal when they moved in. The ones already there had 30 years to get out.

What exactly is "the deal". Does the deal mean that local citizens (of all races) have to abandon their homes and jobs because of crime and government malfeasance? Does that sound right to you?

 

[dorndawg]

I'm glad we have a new Jackson thread. I bet this time we get things straightened out.

 

[WGWFA]

How could you be against it? It's the only option. Do you see the actual capital (and governmental center) actually moving? It's not possible.

CCID is the only saving grace.

Nah, not really. If Chokwe would get out the 17’n way, let JPD be a real PD and let the command staff do their job, there’d be no need for CCID. Eventually, CCID will wear itself out unless they form a AI unit, Detective Unit, a CSU, etc. MBI can’t do it all.

 

[ronpolk]

No its because in reality Republicans are just as much big spending/big government was Democrats.

I'll throw in protecting the hospitals, but nothing beyond that.
Protect the state government/resources, which was already being done and let the rest burn.

Jxn is no longer an economic center. I've worked downtown for already 30 years, even before COVID, DT was becoming more and more deserted. What next take over LE in Greenville and Murderidian? Where does it stop? Why should rich, white people in Belahven, Fondren and Eastover get state tax payer funded LE and the rest of us not? Those folks should have left long ago, the writing was on the wall in the early 90s.

I’ve never understood this stance about state funds being used in Jackson as a bad thing… do you think people in Jackson don’t pay state taxes? Or a business does not pay state taxes? I would imagine Jackson people and business still make up a sizable portion of state income tax. So, why should the state not spend money to try and keep people safe? As long as they are spending on education, police or roads, it seems like an appropriate use of money.

 

[M R DAWGS]

I have read zero of the posts in this thread other than the OP.

This is the result of the Democrat policy at work.

This will and has occurred In every Democrat run city, and it will never fail. There will be a continual shifting of people trying to avoid the socialist policy until a conflict arises.

Nobody wants to live under a 100% democratic run city. It devolves itself.

Jackson was a decent city until they started electing Democrat mayors in the 90’s. It will never recover. No one other than the most ardent Jacksonians wants to live there.

 

[LocalBeachBum]

The question I have is, why is Jackson having such problems and nowhere else? Jackson has a similar situation as Shreveport, Macon and Montgomery as far as core cities of similar size. But the problem is, those cities metro populations are about half of Jackson. And also, those 3 I mentioned are not the business AND governmental centers of their whole state.

Then you have bigger cities that have similar dynamics such as New Orleans, Memphis and Birmingham. Those cities are just too big to fail, so ultimately there is some outer investment in the inner cities.

So the issue is finding a city that is similar to Jackson, to look at and see why it's doing better while Jackson is not. The best I can find is Mobile, with a similar core population and metro population, even though slightly smaller with the overall metro. Maybe Columbia, SC? That's a capital city and business center. Of course, they have the university there, which is a big boost.

So I keep coming back to Mobile. While it's not the business and governmental center, it's still similar and was on a bad path for a long time. The state docks was about all they had. What happened? Well - two things. Airbus in 2012, and they finally elected a mayor who cared in 2013. So yeah I'm with you. They got Continental Tire (at least close by). Until that mayor situation gets resolved, it's over. But I can't see it happening now because too much of the population has now left.

Kind of wish Continental had located inside the city limits, because things would get improved based just on that. Still in Hinds County I guess.

I have wondered what impact Bennie had getting the plant out in Bolton.

 

[Maroon13]

Did you compare the population percentages by race, the median incomes, percentage living below the poverty level, median home values, educational levels etc etc etc ? If you do you'll see that Jackson and Little Rock have some fairly stark differences other than just population numbers.

I lived in Little Rock for a while. Thats baseball nailed it.

While people there are leaving for saline county and NWA too. LR has the heights, west LR and their downtown has more modern buildings. I attribute to more working people paying taxes and being good citizens in general.

LR has its rough areas. Baseline road and south university..... anyways.... if you ask natives to central arkansas though, they'll tell ya LR has gone down the tubes and they desire to move to NWA.

one more, you may as well add the population of NLR to LR. Because it's the same place. Even though technically they're two separate cities.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Jackson is the butthole of America and they are reaping the benefits of getting exactly what they have voted for since the 80’s.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

It’s pretty close to rock bottom. But it won’t change until its citizens want change. And the ones who want change are saying 17 it, I’m leaving.

Those in control of Jackson don't want change and the ones that put them there don't either. Let them have that hell hole. It will fall completely apart soon enough. Already begging feds to save them but want the state to stay out of it. time for state to relocate capital to Tupelo or Hattiesburg.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

I have read zero of the posts in this thread other than the OP.

This is the result of the Democrat policy at work.

This will and has occurred In every Democrat run city, and it will never fail. There will be a continual shifting of people trying to avoid the socialist policy until a conflict arises.

Nobody wants to live under a 100% democratic run city. It devolves itself.

Jackson was a decent city until they started electing Democrat mayors in the 90’s. It will never recover. No one other than the most ardent Jacksonians wants to live there.

Almost all Mayors have Jxn have been Democrats (Dale Danks switched parties to Republican, but after the left office), but we can read between the lines.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

greenbean.sixpack said:
If you don't currently live in the Jxn area, it's easy not to understand this. The Capitol Police ALREADY existed and protected state government/resources. I'm pro their original mission.

This has already been debunked in this thread. ETA: you actually just admitted it above.

I have often stated we have the absolute dumbest fans on the plant, but you sir, may be their leader. The State Capitol Police, complete with squad cars, uniforms, officers, etc., has been in place long before the CCID. I've worked in DT Jxn for almost 30 years, I've seen their officers and cars, and one of my troops was a State Capitol Police Officer. This was prior to 2017 as that's when I retired from the Guard. So "whoever" debunked it is an idiot (or liar) and I never admitted it.

Friendly advice, stop believing everything you hear from Paul Gallow and Supertalk (Supertalk is the State Republican PR wing) and everything you read on Jackson Jambalaya. As Ben Franklin said 250 years ago, don't believe anything you read or hear and only half of what you see.

 

[Johnnie Come Lately]

No its because in reality Republicans are just as much big spending/big government was Democrats.

I'll throw in protecting the hospitals, but nothing beyond that.
Protect the state government/resources, which was already being done and let the rest burn.

Jxn is no longer an economic center. I've worked downtown for already 30 years, even before COVID, DT was becoming more and more deserted. What next take over LE in Greenville and Murderidian? Where does it stop? Why should rich, white people in Belahven, Fondren and Eastover get state tax payer funded LE and the rest of us not? Those folks should have left long ago, the writing was on the wall in the early 90s.

A primary function of government is enforcing existing laws. A state agency (Capitol Police) being used to enforce state laws within the Capital city because the Capital city's police force is not capable of fully performing the job may not be ideal, but I would not put it on par with "big spending / big government".

I agree with you that Republicans are fine with big government and big spending as long it helps their political goals. Republicans will only care about balancing the budget or what the debt ceiling is when the person in the White House has a D by his (or HER) name.

 

[CoastTrash]

The biggest issue is that we got folks that don’t think Jackson is worth saving.

you may disagree on how or why Jackson is in the shape it’s in, but there are some here that don’t even think it’s worth any effort. Gosh, that’s so Mississippi and sad!

 

[Perd Hapley]

So I keep coming back to Mobile. While it's not the business and governmental center, it's still similar and was on a bad path for a long time. The state docks was about all they had. What happened? Well - two things. Airbus in 2012, and they finally elected a mayor who cared in 2013.

Really hard to compare Jackson to Mobile, just because of geography. Mobile has a stable floor for how “bad” it could get just based on waterfront location and all that brings in. Jobs at ports and ship yards, fishing / boating, seafood restaurants, hotels and entertainment needed for all the port traffic, and so forth. Too many advantages to allow it to slip to Jackson’s current state….no matter who they elected.

There’s also just so much affluent population in Foley, Daphne, and Fairhope areas that do business and spend money in Mobile, and just the general appeal of being able to live there and only be an hour from Gulf Shores / Orange Beach is also there. None of that really applies to Jackson.

 

[She Mate Me]

Those in control of Jackson don't want change and the ones that put them there don't either. Let them have that hell hole. It will fall completely apart soon enough. Already begging feds to save them but want the state to stay out of it. time for state to relocate capital to Tupelo or Hattiesburg.

Or, just move it up the road to Madison.

The Jackson Metro is still a hub of strong economic activity and solid citizens.

Much of the part of it located in Hinds County, not so much.

 

[She Mate Me]

While we're on the subject, this should go well...

Jackson Convention Complex, private management firm part ways

OVG took over management of the facility in late 2020.

www.wlbt.com

I'd put the over/under on this facility being a mass of broken windows and pigeon **** at 6 years.

 

[ababyatemydingo]

While we're on the subject, this should go well...

Jackson Convention Complex, private management firm part ways

OVG took over management of the facility in late 2020.

www.wlbt.com

I'd put the over/under on this facility being a mass of broken windows and pigeon **** at 6 years.

They just keep making such stupid decisions. That building had such great possibilities. With the right city administration, that is. Conventions have now moved to the Sheraton in Flowood. Yes you're right. It'll be just another blighted building in downtown Jackson in less than ten years.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Chokwe (lil Eddie) and his daddy Eddie wanted to turn Jackson into the Capital of New Afrika. It looks like they succeeded.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Or, just move it up the road to Madison.

The Jackson Metro is still a hub of strong economic activity and solid citizens.

Much of the part of it located in Hinds County, not so much.

As a resident of Madison, I vote for Brandon. **

 

[Maroon13]

The biggest issue is that we got folks that don’t think Jackson is worth saving.

you may disagree on how or why Jackson is in the shape it’s in, but there are some here that don’t even think it’s worth any effort. Gosh, that’s so Mississippi and sad!

Who exactly are you talking about? The citizens and elected officials currently there? Or is someone else all of a sudden suppose to come to Jackson's rescue? Who?

 

[thatsbaseball]

The biggest issue is that we got folks that don’t think Jackson is worth saving.

That's exactly what the state is trying to do now and the city of Jackson is going bat shirt.

 

[She Mate Me]

That's exactly what the state is trying to do now and the city of Jackson is going bat shirt.

I love my bat shirt...

 

[Boom Boom]

That's exactly what the state is trying to do now and the city of Jackson is going bat shirt.

The state is doing nothing more than pandering. If tougher judges was all it took to induce prosperity then every 3rd world country wouldn't be 3rd world. It will take making the schools the best in the state, and making resources for those born into 3rd world conditions but wanting to work to a good life, the best resources for those people in the country. It will take incentivizing work by subsidizing jobs. But we don't even fund CPS, let alone the rest.

 

[thatsbaseball]

The state is doing nothing more than pandering. If tougher judges was all it took to induce prosperity then every 3rd world country wouldn't be 3rd world. It will take making the schools the best in the state, and making resources for those born into 3rd world conditions but wanting to work to a good life, the best resources for those people in the country. It will take incentivizing work by subsidizing jobs. But we don't even fund CPS, let alone the rest.

Pandering to whom ? The citizens that for whatever reason have to be in Jackson from time to time and want to be safe while they're there ? It doesn't matter if a country's (or city's) streets are paved with gold, without law and order....it's a third world country.

 

[ababyatemydingo]

Pandering to whom ? The citizens that for whatever reason have to be in Jackson from time to time and want to be safe while they're there ? It doesn't matter if a country's (or city's) streets are paved with gold, without law and order....it's a third world country.

don't let him bait you in. he's an idiot

 

[Boom Boom]

Pandering to whom ? The citizens that for whatever reason have to be in Jackson from time to time and want to be safe while they're there ? It doesn't matter if a country's (or city's) streets are paved with gold, without law and order....it's a third world country.

The people who think Jackson is just releasing murderers back onto the street.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

The only hope for Jackson is if that Volcano under the Coliseum does this.

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

Jackson public schools are a huge waste of money. At least half the teachers there can't speak English and would fail a real test on the subject they are teaching. Half of the parents don't care whether their kids go to school or what their grades are. JPD is a joke. They are just trying to make it thru another days without getting shot. The people running the city are on the take. The handful of decent folks left are getting the shaft. Its beyond fixing at this point. Most of this country is going down the same road. There was a time when you had to be a property owner to vote in this country. At least you had skin in the game. People vote for hand outs now days. Tax payers are going extinct

 

[Called3rdstrikedawg]

The people who think Jackson is just releasing murderers back onto the street.

Not just releasing them. Making little to no effort to find murderers. They only murders they solve are the ones where the perp kills someone and then drives to JPD and turns themselves in or the ones where Grandma or single Momma turn them in. They have no legitimate crime solving divisions. They can be on the scene within 5 minutes of a murder and not find any evidence or witnesses.

 

[Boom Boom]

Not just releasing them. Making little to no effort to find murderers. They only murders they solve are the ones where the perp kills someone and then drives to JPD and turns themselves in or the ones where Grandma or single Momma turn them in. They have no legitimate crime solving divisions. They can be on the scene within 5 minutes of a murder and not find any evidence or witnesses.

I think that's probably an exaggeration, and I see similar problems in other PDs.

But if the capitol cops are the solution, when can I expect to see a difference?