Kingston observations

Bubba Fett

Joined Oct 6, 2000
Feb 1, 2022
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I remember the day my mind changed on Will Muschamp, from "give him more time" to "fire him now." It was December 29, 2018. Muschamp took a talented, 7&5 team, that had a 4-4 SEC record, and some tough close losses into the Belk Bowl against Virginia. Virginia was also 7&5 and 4-4 but against a weaker schedule.

Instead of victory, which we should have had, or at worst, a close fought battle that came down to one score, we got embarrassed. 28 to NOTHING.

28 to ZERO.

Virginia executed.
Gamecocks ran into each other.
One team was ready to play.
The other team was clearly not.

After that fiasco, Muschamp got not one but two more seasons!

I like Kingston, I do. I want him to succeed, but this past weekend was my Belk Bowl wake up. We haven't been prepared, or up, or ready to play, or whatever it is that we need since the Florida series.

Injuries have played a role I'm sure, but this year end collapse is incredibly awful.

Kingston has the postseason to show us something, but I've seen this show before, and I think I know how it ends.

I doubt the powers in charge will fire Kingston this year, but barring a long postseason run, and visible quality coaching I will be getting onboard the Fire Kingston express.
 
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18IsTheMan

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Jan 19, 2022
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I remember the day my mind changed on Will Muschamp, from "give him more time" to "fire him now." It was December 29, 2018. Muschamp took a talented, 7&5 team, that had a 4-4 SEC record, and some tough close loses into the Belk Bowl against Virginia. Virginia was also 7&5 and 4-4 but against a weaker schedule.

Instead of victory, which we should have had, or at worst, a close fought battle that came down to one score, we got embarrassed. 28 to NOTHING.

28 to ZERO.

Virginia executed.
Gamecocks ran into each other.
One team was ready to play.
The other team was clearly not.

After that fiasco, Muschamp got not one but two more seasons!

I like Kingston, I do. I want him to succeed, but this past weekend was my Belk Bowl wake up. We haven't been prepared, or up, or ready to play, or whatever it is that we need since the Florida series.

Injuries have played a role I'm sure, but this year end collapse is incredibly awful.

Kingston has the postseason to show us something, but I've seen this show before, and I think I know how it ends.

I doubt the powers in charge will fire Kingston this year, but barring a long postseason run, and visible quality coaching I will be getting onboard the Fire Kingston express.

I know not the point of the post, but that game was abysmal. What made it worse, is that Muschamp absolutely refused to pull Bentley, even as he was putting up a 27.7 QBR. Scarnecchia sat on the sidelines collecting dust, though he had shown himself well more than capable in a crucial win against Missouri earlier in the season. It almost seemed like Muschamp was pissed that Scarnecchia performed well and banished him after that. That UVA game was 14-0 at the half and our D was keeping it manageable in spite of zero support from the offense. To me, not bringing in a capable backup when your starter was obviously not getting it done was inexcusable. That's when I decided I was done with Muschamp as well.
 

Prestonyte

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Kingston's analytics approach makes him a "robot coach" who does not have the capability to "fire up the troops" for a post season run. Combined with the fact that we do not have a tournament pitching staff, I anticipate the post season run being very short.
If that happens, he should not return. But I know Ray will have his reasons to take the easy route and retain him. If Ray let's him go I'll be shocked.
 
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Blues man

Joined Jul 1, 2009
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Kingston's analytics approach makes him a "robot coach" who does not have the capability to "fire up the troops" for a post season run. Combined with the fact that we do not have a tournament pitching staff, I anticipated the post season run being very short.
If that happens, he should not return. But I know Ray will have his reasons to take the easy route and retain him. If Ray let's him go I'll be shocked.
Spot on the robot coach thing. I like that description. Anyone can look at stats and odds to justify decisions... it's like not having to make decisions at all. Screams of weak coaching. Its no wonder why we have been so fragile.
 

will110

Joined Aug 17, 2018
Jan 20, 2022
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I remember the day my mind changed on Will Muschamp, from "give him more time" to "fire him now." It was December 29, 2018. Muschamp took a talented, 7&5 team, that had a 4-4 SEC record, and some tough close loses into the Belk Bowl against Virginia. Virginia was also 7&5 and 4-4 but against a weaker schedule.

Instead of victory, which we should have had, or at worst, a close fought battle that came down to one score, we got embarrassed. 28 to NOTHING.

28 to ZERO.

Virginia executed.
Gamecocks ran into each other.
One team was ready to play.
The other team was clearly not.

After that fiasco, Muschamp got not one but two more seasons!

I like Kingston, I do. I want him to succeed, but this past weekend was my Belk Bowl wake up. We haven't been prepared, or up, or ready to play, or whatever it is that we need since the Florida series.

Injuries have played a role I'm sure, but this year end collapse is incredibly awful.

Kingston has the postseason to show us something, but I've seen this show before, and I think I know how it ends.

I doubt the powers in charge will fire Kingston this year, but barring a long postseason run, and visible quality coaching I will be getting onboard the Fire Kingston express.
For me with Muschamp it was learning that he hadn't even utilized all of the possible practices allowed under NCAA rules in the leadup to the bowl game. All you hear about from coaches is the importance of the extra bowl practices, and then Muschamp didn't even use them all.

No wonder the team didn't show up. Muschamp didn't care, so neither did the team.
 

RichUSC87

Joined Sep 30, 2017
Feb 5, 2022
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I remember the day my mind changed on Will Muschamp, from "give him more time" to "fire him now." It was December 29, 2018. Muschamp took a talented, 7&5 team, that had a 4-4 SEC record, and some tough close loses into the Belk Bowl against Virginia. Virginia was also 7&5 and 4-4 but against a weaker schedule.

Instead of victory, which we should have had, or at worst, a close fought battle that came down to one score, we got embarrassed. 28 to NOTHING.

28 to ZERO.

Virginia executed.
Gamecocks ran into each other.
One team was ready to play.
The other team was clearly not.

After that fiasco, Muschamp got not one but two more seasons!

I like Kingston, I do. I want him to succeed, but this past weekend was my Belk Bowl wake up. We haven't been prepared, or up, or ready to play, or whatever it is that we need since the Florida series.

Injuries have played a role I'm sure, but this year end collapse is incredibly awful.

Kingston has the postseason to show us something, but I've seen this show before, and I think I know how it ends.

I doubt the powers in charge will fire Kingston this year, but barring a long postseason run, and visible quality coaching I will be getting onboard the Fire Kingston express.
I'm with you on all accounts. Wasting another year with MK is absurd, but it's what we do at Carolina.
 
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I liked the hire because he helped build teams up in programs that didn't have many resources. I thought he would thrive in an environment where baseball had resources. I had to give him a pass for last season with six pitchers that were injured. You can't "win anyway" with that.
The second half of this season has been disappointing, but the turnaround from last year tells me that he can bring in talent. The coach has to take some blame, but at some point these players have to play. They have to hit the ball and make pitches etc.
They'll make the postseason this year in some fashion and they have the talent to make a run.

I've stated previously why I DON'T think he should be fired this year:
1) More teams give a crap about baseball now, and Kingston did not inherit a program that was on top of the world like it was in 2012. Four SEC teams have won the CWS since USC last won it...but winning it doesn't mean you'll always be good. Look at Ole Miss and Miss. State from the last two years.
2) Team improved and lots of young talent on the roster
3) Firing Kingston at this point likely puts a ton of guys in transfer portal as they were recruited by several teams in the SEC.

The funny thing is, earlier this year when the team was hitting so well, a lot of folks wanted to credit Monte Lee and still wouldn't credit Kingston... now that the team is not hitting so well, it's all on Kingston.
 

ClassOf95

Joined Sep 30, 2001 • Garnet Trust Supporter
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I know not the point of the post, but that game was abysmal. What made it worse, is that Muschamp absolutely refused to pull Bentley, even as he was putting up a 27.7 QBR. Scarnecchia sat on the sidelines collecting dust, though he had shown himself well more than capable in a crucial win against Missouri earlier in the season. It almost seemed like Muschamp was pissed that Scarnecchia performed well and banished him after that. That UVA game was 14-0 at the half and our D was keeping it manageable in spite of zero support from the offense. To me, not bringing in a capable backup when your starter was obviously not getting it done was inexcusable. That's when I decided I was done with Muschamp as well.
Muschamp's refusal to play a backup QB was confounding to me. We lost a close game to UNC because of this, and I'm sure other games.

It was as if Muschamp was benched in pop warner ball and never got over it.
 

Prestonyte

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I liked the hire because he helped build teams up in programs that didn't have many resources. I thought he would thrive in an environment where baseball had resources. I had to give him a pass for last season with six pitchers that were injured. You can't "win anyway" with that.
The second half of this season has been disappointing, but the turnaround from last year tells me that he can bring in talent. The coach has to take some blame, but at some point these players have to play. They have to hit the ball and make pitches etc.
They'll make the postseason this year in some fashion and they have the talent to make a run.

I've stated previously why I DON'T think he should be fired this year:
1) More teams give a crap about baseball now, and Kingston did not inherit a program that was on top of the world like it was in 2012. Four SEC teams have won the CWS since USC last won it...but winning it doesn't mean you'll always be good. Look at Ole Miss and Miss. State from the last two years.
2) Team improved and lots of young talent on the roster
3) Firing Kingston at this point likely puts a ton of guys in transfer portal as they were recruited by several teams in the SEC.

The funny thing is, earlier this year when the team was hitting so well, a lot of folks wanted to credit Monte Lee and still wouldn't credit Kingston... now that the team is not hitting so well, it's all on Kingston.
If we manage our coaching change the same way we manage our bullpen (5 runs down and then we run them out to the bullpen to START warming up and then make the change when we are 8 or 9 runs down) we will wait another couple of years to start to put together a list of potential coaches and discuss it for a couple more years before making a change.
 
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If we manage our coaching change the same way we manage our bullpen (5 runs down and then we run them out to the bullpen to START warming up and then make the change when we are 8 or 9 runs down) we will wait another couple of years to start to put together a list of potential coaches and discuss it for a couple more years before making a change.
I agree... the pitching management has been poor as of late. Is that all on Kingston or is that on Parker?
 
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BftCocks09

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Spot on the robot coach thing. I like that description. Anyone can look at stats and odds to justify decisions... it's like not having to make decisions at all. Screams of weak coaching. Its no wonder why we have been so fragile.
I honestly can't imagine being a player and wanting to play for him. Maybe as a player (trying to be unbiased here) I like the school, facilities, etc. and come here because of that, but what about Kingston would make anyone say "that's my guy right there." Even his ejections when he's clearly trying to just light a fire under the guys are some of the most boring and obviously staged rants ever. There is absolutely no fire in the guy.
 

Prestonyte

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I agree... the pitching management has been poor as of late. Is that all on Kingston or is that on Parker?
I have said repeatedly that Parker has mismanaged the pitching staff and the preparation of our potential starting pitchers and how we use the bullpen. Parker works for Kingston the "robot coach" and a "non-robot" coach would have taken charge and made a change as it is his ultimate responsibility. I can see Kingston throwing Parker under the bus and buying himself some time and maybe that's the plan.
 

Blues man

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I honestly can't imagine being a player and wanting to play for him. Maybe as a player (trying to be unbiased here) I like the school, facilities, etc. and come here because of that, but what about Kingston would make anyone say "that's my guy right there." Even his ejections when he's clearly trying to just light a fire under the guys are some of the most boring and obviously staged rants ever. There is absolutely no fire in the guy.
Agreed, you'd really have to want to be a Gamecock to come here. It certainly wouldn't be for development or getting to the next level. We are horrible at that and have been for quite some time. Embarrassing it should be. Personally I believe if we focused on that, the wins would take care of themselves. Not to mention we'd be giving these guys what they deserve rather than what they don't when they come here.
 
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Deleted11512

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I liked the hire because he helped build teams up in programs that didn't have many resources. I thought he would thrive in an environment where baseball had resources. I had to give him a pass for last season with six pitchers that were injured. You can't "win anyway" with that.
The second half of this season has been disappointing, but the turnaround from last year tells me that he can bring in talent. The coach has to take some blame, but at some point these players have to play. They have to hit the ball and make pitches etc.
They'll make the postseason this year in some fashion and they have the talent to make a run.

I've stated previously why I DON'T think he should be fired this year:
1) More teams give a crap about baseball now, and Kingston did not inherit a program that was on top of the world like it was in 2012. Four SEC teams have won the CWS since USC last won it...but winning it doesn't mean you'll always be good. Look at Ole Miss and Miss. State from the last two years.
2) Team improved and lots of young talent on the roster
3) Firing Kingston at this point likely puts a ton of guys in transfer portal as they were recruited by several teams in the SEC.

The funny thing is, earlier this year when the team was hitting so well, a lot of folks wanted to credit Monte Lee and still wouldn't credit Kingston... now that the team is not hitting so well, it's all on Kingston.
I get that it's a crap shoot. I was so pissed that Mississippi St ended up with Chris Lemonis. He was a SC guy. He was one of the top assistants in the country at Louisville. Then went to Indiana and went to the regionals 3 out of 4 years, winning 40 games one year. First year at MSU goes to the CWS. Next full season wins it all. Since then, he's 53-56. I didn't see that coming. But even if he's a failure, he brought them a ring.

It's more than just hitting well...out pitching is a mess, we're making baserunning blunders, we're 119th in the country if fielding %. This is more than just hitting.
 

Bubba Fett

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I liked the hire because he helped build teams up in programs that didn't have many resources. I thought he would thrive in an environment where baseball had resources. I had to give him a pass for last season with six pitchers that were injured. You can't "win anyway" with that.
The second half of this season has been disappointing, but the turnaround from last year tells me that he can bring in talent. The coach has to take some blame, but at some point these players have to play. They have to hit the ball and make pitches etc.
They'll make the postseason this year in some fashion and they have the talent to make a run.

I've stated previously why I DON'T think he should be fired this year:
1) More teams give a crap about baseball now, and Kingston did not inherit a program that was on top of the world like it was in 2012. Four SEC teams have won the CWS since USC last won it...but winning it doesn't mean you'll always be good. Look at Ole Miss and Miss. State from the last two years.
2) Team improved and lots of young talent on the roster
3) Firing Kingston at this point likely puts a ton of guys in transfer portal as they were recruited by several teams in the SEC.

The funny thing is, earlier this year when the team was hitting so well, a lot of folks wanted to credit Monte Lee and still wouldn't credit Kingston... now that the team is not hitting so well, it's all on Kingston.

I think he should be be gone barring a deep postseason run, but I understand why he won't be fired. That said, your last paragraph is spot on.
 
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Cluster Cock

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I remember the day my mind changed on Will Muschamp, from "give him more time" to "fire him now." It was December 29, 2018. Muschamp took a talented, 7&5 team, that had a 4-4 SEC record, and some tough close loses into the Belk Bowl against Virginia. Virginia was also 7&5 and 4-4 but against a weaker schedule.

Instead of victory, which we should have had, or at worst, a close fought battle that came down to one score, we got embarrassed. 28 to NOTHING.

28 to ZERO.

Virginia executed.
Gamecocks ran into each other.
One team was ready to play.
The other team was clearly not.

After that fiasco, Muschamp got not one but two more seasons!

I like Kingston, I do. I want him to succeed, but this past weekend was my Belk Bowl wake up. We haven't been prepared, or up, or ready to play, or whatever it is that we need since the Florida series.

Injuries have played a role I'm sure, but this year end collapse is incredibly awful.

Kingston has the postseason to show us something, but I've seen this show before, and I think I know how it ends.

I doubt the powers in charge will fire Kingston this year, but barring a long postseason run, and visible quality coaching I will be getting onboard the Fire Kingston express.
I know this a topic on Kingston and not Muschamp, but to add some more context to the Muschamp situation. Scar played extremely well and led is to a victory in the flood, and I mean flood, against Missouri. We won that game in horrible conditions.

Our last home game that year was against Akron in a makeup game moving the LSU home game due to the hurricane. The game was also played in steady rain with maybe 10,000 fans there. This would have been Scar's last home game and Muschamp never put him in that game or the bowl game.
 
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CockofEarle

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I remember the day my mind changed on Will Muschamp, from "give him more time" to "fire him now." It was December 29, 2018. Muschamp took a talented, 7&5 team, that had a 4-4 SEC record, and some tough close loses into the Belk Bowl against Virginia. Virginia was also 7&5 and 4-4 but against a weaker schedule.

Instead of victory, which we should have had, or at worst, a close fought battle that came down to one score, we got embarrassed. 28 to NOTHING.

28 to ZERO.

Virginia executed.
Gamecocks ran into each other.
One team was ready to play.
The other team was clearly not.

After that fiasco, Muschamp got not one but two more seasons!

I like Kingston, I do. I want him to succeed, but this past weekend was my Belk Bowl wake up. We haven't been prepared, or up, or ready to play, or whatever it is that we need since the Florida series.

Injuries have played a role I'm sure, but this year end collapse is incredibly awful.

Kingston has the postseason to show us something, but I've seen this show before, and I think I know how it ends.

I doubt the powers in charge will fire Kingston this year, but barring a long postseason run, and visible quality coaching I will be getting onboard the Fire Kingston express.
Ah, you understand the game I see. We 1st must make internal changes…..fire Calvi.
 
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RMOIII

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Kingston's analytics approach makes him a "robot coach" who does not have the capability to "fire up the troops" for a post season run. Combined with the fact that we do not have a tournament pitching staff, I anticipate the post season run being very short.
If that happens, he should not return. But I know Ray will have his reasons to take the easy route and retain him. If Ray let's him go I'll be shocked.
I think we make a decent showing & get back in conversation for a nat'l seed...RMO III
 

BT Gamecock

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I think if you lose right away in tournament, and lose in a regional (especially if you don't even win 1 game), he should be shown the door. If you get out of a regional, we'll see... I just don't have faith in this team doing much this post season after the last month. I hope I'm wrong.

Also, I put the blame on all of them. Coach Lee is as guilty as Kingston. His Clemson teams collapsed just like this one. CRT better not think of considering Lee for the job either. The messageboards would go crazy!
 

CWW

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I remember the day my mind changed on Will Muschamp, from "give him more time" to "fire him now." It was December 29, 2018. Muschamp took a talented, 7&5 team, that had a 4-4 SEC record, and some tough close loses into the Belk Bowl against Virginia. Virginia was also 7&5 and 4-4 but against a weaker schedule.

Instead of victory, which we should have had, or at worst, a close fought battle that came down to one score, we got embarrassed. 28 to NOTHING.

28 to ZERO.

Virginia executed.
Gamecocks ran into each other.
One team was ready to play.
The other team was clearly not.

After that fiasco, Muschamp got not one but two more seasons!

I like Kingston, I do. I want him to succeed, but this past weekend was my Belk Bowl wake up. We haven't been prepared, or up, or ready to play, or whatever it is that we need since the Florida series.

Injuries have played a role I'm sure, but this year end collapse is incredibly awful.

Kingston has the postseason to show us something, but I've seen this show before, and I think I know how it ends.

I doubt the powers in charge will fire Kingston this year, but barring a long postseason run, and visible quality coaching I will be getting onboard the Fire Kingston express.
I thought Kingston’s contract was up this year. So, we would either have to extend it…or let it expire. I guess that is not correct.
 
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USCBatgirl21

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I liked the hire because he helped build teams up in programs that didn't have many resources. I thought he would thrive in an environment where baseball had resources. I had to give him a pass for last season with six pitchers that were injured. You can't "win anyway" with that.
The second half of this season has been disappointing, but the turnaround from last year tells me that he can bring in talent. The coach has to take some blame, but at some point these players have to play. They have to hit the ball and make pitches etc.
They'll make the postseason this year in some fashion and they have the talent to make a run.

I've stated previously why I DON'T think he should be fired this year:
1) More teams give a crap about baseball now, and Kingston did not inherit a program that was on top of the world like it was in 2012. Four SEC teams have won the CWS since USC last won it...but winning it doesn't mean you'll always be good. Look at Ole Miss and Miss. State from the last two years.
2) Team improved and lots of young talent on the roster
3) Firing Kingston at this point likely puts a ton of guys in transfer portal as they were recruited by several teams in the SEC.

The funny thing is, earlier this year when the team was hitting so well, a lot of folks wanted to credit Monte Lee and still wouldn't credit Kingston... now that the team is not hitting so well, it's all on Kingston.
re bringing in talent - The guys here now are his lowest rated recruiting class ever.
 

kidrobinski

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Muschamp's refusal to play a backup QB was confounding to me. We lost a close game to UNC because of this, and I'm sure other games.
False.

Certainly no Muschamp fan here, but despite popular folklore that’s simply not true. We took an 11 point lead into the fourth quarter of that UNC game and then gave up back to back clock-eating 95 yard touchdown scoring drives. Bentley was sacked (and injured, ending his USC career) by a three man rush on the last play of that game. That game was on the defense, not Jake Bentley.
 
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Deleted11512

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False.

Certainly no Muschamp fan here, but despite popular folklore that’s simply not true. We took an 11 point lead into the fourth quarter of that UNC game and then gave up back to back clock-eating 95 yard touchdown scoring drives. Bentley was sacked (and injured, ending his USC career) by a three man rush on the last play of that game. That game was on the defense, not Jake Bentley.
There was plenty of blame to go around with that one. Those 2 drives were hardly clock eating....first was just over 2 minutes, the second just over 3 minutes. JB had a terrible game. Outside of those 2 drives in the 4th, the D was lights out. Just a typical Muschamp game...punt, punt, punt until the D wears down in the 4th. We punted 5 times (4 in the 2nd half) and missed a FG. But even with all that, the D gave us two stops at the end. And JB threw INTs on both drives to end it. That game was the Muschampiest of all games...and of course it would lead to our starting QB getting hurt on the last play of the game.
 
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ClassOf95

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False.

Certainly no Muschamp fan here, but despite popular folklore that’s simply not true. We took an 11 point lead into the fourth quarter of that UNC game and then gave up back to back clock-eating 95 yard touchdown scoring drives. Bentley was sacked (and injured, ending his USC career) by a three man rush on the last play of that game. That game was on the defense, not Jake Bentley.

I raise your False to a False False.

I don't fault Jake Bentley and I never call out individual players. There were multiple mistakes made by our QB in the second half, wide open receiver targets were missed by 5 yards in some cases. I really like and appreciate what Jake Bentley brought to USC. Muschamp, for whatever reason, never played a backup QB, which cost us multiple games.
 
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Is it just me, or does it seem we have a bunch of injuries over the last few years?
Yes..... last year 6 pitchers. This year, all 4 starting infielders missed time. Currently playing without your Friday and Saturday pitcher and a good freshman (Jerzembeck). Not having Noah Hall for 2/3 of the year certainly hurt.

Don't know if you can blame the S&C coach... isn't he the same guy that was here when USC was at CWS in 2010-2012?
 

864guy

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Kingston's analytics approach makes him a "robot coach" who does not have the capability to "fire up the troops" for a post season run. Combined with the fact that we do not have a tournament pitching staff, I anticipate the post season run being very short.
If that happens, he should not return. But I know Ray will have his reasons to take the easy route and retain him. If Ray let's him go I'll be shocked.
Kingston has the personality of s rock, in addition to being a coach that in his history has won at about a .500 clip and is worse than that against SEC teams here. To this day, I have no idea what Tanner saw in him that would make him think this guy can get this team back to national prominence. What has to be soon eventually, needs to be done now. DO NOT wait until the very best head coaches available, are gone, to begin a search for another one like Kingston. This university should have zero confidence in Tanner to hire a competent baseball coach at this point. If the powers here want Tanner to stay, give him a fundraising position and hire a competent, experienced, professional athletic director, that will do his job without directions from the BOT, who know nothing about hiring competent coaches. It has not worked up till now and will not now, until politics is taken out of the equation.