Last OT thread: What's up with the Nord Stream problem?

[BoomBoom.sixpack]

The 60-70% of the GOP that wants to move on from the insane 30-40% contingent is held hostage by the likelihood that Don goes petty and starts his own ticket out of spite - basically dooming republicans in national races. You see it happening to an extent already within the party, but he'll blow it all up if he has to. That's the kind of guy he is. If he ain't winning, nobody is. Shameful really - we need two healthy parties for effective governing. Now we have a party held hostage by a cultish clown show of culture grievance and worship of a man that makes Biff Tannen look like a saint and the other that thinks they can solve any problem with printing more money, adding more regulation, or placing an x at the end of perfectly good words.

I AM the "other side", and I don't think we can solve most problems by printing money, or adding regulation (though I do think many problems stem from a lack of proper regulation, though much of this is corruptly not properly enforcing existing regulation, not a need for adding new regs), and I have never cared if an X is added to a descriptor, though if a historically oppressed group wants to be referred to that way i have no reason not to as I don't care either way. And I don't know any serious lefties that think that either. If any, they are very few, not nearly the dominant strain of the Party that the unhinged Republicans are.

This kind of false equivalency is common, as we all attempt to deal with the GOP going fully off the rails, and it is tempting to try to make sense of it by equating both sides. But it is not a problem of both sides, and it doesn't help your argument to use a false equivalency.

Things flip in politics every few decades. We used to have serious, realistic cons and ideological held in the clouds hippies. It flipped. The sooner we all accept that, the sooner the political process will shake out in a healthy way.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Do you realize that border control compromise bill under Trump was sidelined by votes from 14 Republicans, many of whom are in border states complaining incessantly about immigration?

 

[ckDOG]

He's referring to the House ready to clip the FBI when GOP takes it back.

if you believe defund the police was a Republican movement.

Both parties are hypocritical when it comes to policing. Democrats had their stupid moment of "defund the police!" (probably the dumbest political movement in mainstream political history, as weak as it really was) only to have the Biden admin increase federal police funding to unprecedented levels while also encouraging states to devote stimulus money to policing.

Then you have the GOP who preaches law and order yet is chomping at the bit to clip the FBI when they take back the House.

We're led by unserious people that rely on tribalism to keep their job. Not sure if the country will ever fully understand this at levels large enough to drive any improvements.

 

[LittleBigDog]

You are deflecting. You said in an earlier post that defund the police was a MAGA, Trump, Republican movement. I can't take you seriously if you believe that to be true.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

The sooner people grow a brain and get off their my way or the highway powertrips the better the political landscape will be but that’s never going to happen so we’re 17ed.

 

[LittleBigDog]

Can't take you seriously

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Are the FBI the largest police force in the nation or nah? That is exactly what I was referring to in my post. I should have called FBI out specifically.

 

[BoomBoom.sixpack]

Dude is full on cult, like about 40% of Republicans who are all MAGA all the time. I am in disbelief at what the Republican Party has become; worshipping at the throne of a man that, steals codeword level national security documents, praises Putin and Xi, wanting to defund the police, anti-democracy. It is really like being in some kind of implausible movie script but here we are.

It has changed a little, loons like Oz and such would rarely have won primaries before. But not nearly as much has changed as you imply. You just see now, what you wore blinders to before.

 

[LittleBigDog]

No. He said "defund the police" which you are right to claim as one of the most idiotic political movements ever. On the other hand, the DOJ and FBI should not be partisan...doing any parties bidding...nor the IRS for that matter. But, all of those entities have been politicized.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Its going to get ugly that is for sure.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I am still anti-over turning elections, a proponent of peaceful transfer of power and anti dictator/fascist. Those brilliant 1/6 dudes are going to jail in droves now as the trials complete and it couldn't be a more fitting end for an attack on our capitol. And the sedition trials for the more serious leaders are really just getting going.

 

[LittleBigDog]

Ok. I accept that is what you meant. But, as stupid as the "disband the FBI" mantra is..."defund the police" is at least as idiotic.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

You now see Trump openly using Q-Anon symbols stoking the most violent fringe in preparation for who knows what? You 19 of 40 something Republicans who are being voted on this November saying that if they lose they will not accept the results. So basically the MAGA folks are embracing violent subculture, post attacking the capitol and promising that they will not accept election results going forward. And I'm being called crazy by some of them on this forum.

 

[LittleBigDog]

The most unabashed, brazen, unchecked violence I have ever witnessed was in the summer of 2020. Oh, but those were "peaceful protests". I keep forgetting that.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Absolutely. I was alluding to the fact that we used to pride ourselves on being big supporters of law and order. Trump changed that in a big way and not in a good way.

 

[ckDOG]

I think you and I are probably in the same boat.

I AM the "other side", and I don't think we can solve most problems by printing money, or adding regulation (though I do think many problems stem from a lack of proper regulation, though much of this is corruptly not properly enforcing existing regulation, not a need for adding new regs), and I have never cared if an X is added to a descriptor, though if a historically oppressed group wants to be referred to that way i have no reason not to as I don't care either way. And I don't know any serious lefties that think that either. If any, they are very few, not nearly the dominant strain of the Party that the unhinged Republicans are.

This kind of false equivalency is common, as we all attempt to deal with the GOP going fully off the rails, and it is tempting to try to make sense of it by equating both sides. But it is not a problem of both sides, and it doesn't help your argument to use a false equivalency.

Things flip in politics every few decades. We used to have serious, realistic cons and ideological held in the clouds hippies. It flipped. The sooner we all accept that, the sooner the political process will shake out in a healthy way.

I'm with you on the above. My point was to state that both parties are ineffective leaving us with a stalemated gov't, but the equivalency stops there. While I do think Democrats aren't practical or messaged in a way that allows them to connect with the moderate left/centrist/moderate right voters to the extent they should/could at this moment, they are in no way running their party on tilt the way republicans are with their Trump problem. If I'm turning the keys over, it's for the party that at least makes a platform attempt (I know what mainstream democrats stand for at least) instead of the party that has none outside of consistently caving to a demagogue, stirring up social grievances, and salivating over the thought at punishing political enemies.

 

[ckDOG]

It was tongue in cheek.

No. He said "defund the police" which you are right to claim as one of the most idiotic political movements ever. On the other hand, the DOJ and FBI should not be partisan...doing any parties bidding...nor the IRS for that matter. But, all of those entities have been politicized.

You took the bait.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I don't think that equates with a former president leading an attack on the capital (they've now got phone records of the WH switchboard with outbound calls to key leaders during the attack), not conceding an election loss and perpetuating a lie to foment more violence. I'll also say that I think those violent protests were bad, but not comparable, BUT AT LEAST they were in response to a truth about the way that blacks have been policed and not a lie about an election being stolen. And mostly people burned down their own neighborhoods and didn't try to ruin our country's election process.

 

[BoomBoom.sixpack]

Why should we care about our right to bear arms? Who cares if open borders are allowing Fentanyl in? It's not like it's going to hurt anyone or something. Who cares about a Constitution? It's just some old document written a long time ago. Doesn't mean anything. Why shouldn't boys play girls sports? If they can't beat the boys then they should toughen up. Who cares about a strong national security and strong police? It's not like anything's ever going to happen. Who cares about job creation? I mean most people don't want to work anyway. Why make them? Who cares about rising crime in major U.S. cities? The victims need to stop being at the right place at the right time.

Fair questions, and I'll try to give fair answers. I hope you'll fairly consider them, but I doubt it.

America 1st? Both Parties suck on this. Some Dems put global concerns first, but most don't. Trump, whether by idiocy or not, shook this tree a little, but the GOP shook back and won. His tenure was not about shorting multi national corporarions interests for America's benefit. Nor about reversing globalist policies. Dems have taken the lead on this, though very lightly as their leadership has deep globalist ties and are mostly bought.

Right to bear arms? Both parties care for this. Dems do not share the view that the 2A gave an individual right to bear arms, but we don't have an issue with re-interpreting rights to meet modern norms. It's the cons that preach against that yet practice it for themselves. We do wish to balance that right with the rights of others. As all rights must be balanced.

Open borders? I am against that, but I don't think most Dems are as much as I am. We don't have open borders btw, but they aren't fully closed either. Corps and globalists want cheap labor. Hard adjustments would be needed to get off cheap labor. I favor it, because I favor workers. The GOP usually gets upset when workers start making more money. Not an easy issue if you assess it honestly, rather than just demagogue it.

Constitution? Dude, Dems win on that one by a mile. GOP only likes the parts they like. Lots of revisionist history and bad faith arguments from that side.

Trans rights isn't that big a deal to most people. It's mostly fake culture war crap used to spin up the rubes. I don't think most biological males should get to compete with biological females in most sports. They should still get to play/compete somehow though, it's part of life. We just need to adjust how we have some things set up. IMO, most public leagues aren't competitive enough for it to matter. For the rest, let blood testing for testosterone or whatever be allowed. Roids matter too.

Strong national security? Last I looked, our defense budget was good homie.

Strong police? OK. What about Strong police accountability? How free am I if I am only as free as the worst cop decides I am?

Crime? You'll be hard pressed to find Dems in favor of crime. Drugs, guns, and ****** cops makes for crime. We've got all 3, thanks to cons. Hard knot to untie.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Last post in this thread. As crazy as Tucker is, did you see the interview with Trump when he was telling Tucker about declassifying documents by thinking about them? Tucker tried to give him an opportunity to walk back all the crazy that he had just spewed but he doubled down. It was nuts.

 

[Phil Wenneck.sixpack]

I take those answers fairly and could consider them. Could even meet you in the middle on most. But this. This is just word soup trying to not hurt anyone's feelings. "Trans rights isn't that big a deal to most people. It's mostly fake culture war crap used to spin up the rubes. I don't think most biological males should get to compete with biological females in most sports. They should still get to play/compete somehow though, it's part of life. We just need to adjust how we have some things set up. IMO, most public leagues aren't competitive enough for it to matter. For the rest, let blood testing for testosterone or whatever be allowed. Roids matter too." Why should anyone adjust to the way some things have set up? I'd say it's a bigger deal to more people than you realize. Either way, Go Dawgs.