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Lebron is so paranoid...

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VirgilCain

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its definitely a primary factor is the best of the best.... but circumstance plays a large part too.

When Jordan left the Bulls for his first retirement, how'd the bulls do the next season?....Huh, they made it to the second round of the playoffs you say? No way!... Wow, they won 55 regular season games? That can't be, because they only won 57 the year before with Jordan?

When Lebron left Clevelend, how'd the Cav's do the next season?.... 19 wins all season? really? But they won an average of 61&66 in the previous 2 years respectively with Lebron.... And they were last in the league as far as making the playoffs was concerned?

Again, I DO NOT think Lebron is better than Jordan (definitely not yet, but it's at the very least arguable).... But I think a lot are brainwashed into thinking that Jordan could walk on water....That is why I am arguing this side of the debate.
 
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Stormrider81

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No one can do that, as Rose just found out. That said, I think it's funny that you speak of differing circumstances and then compare two totally different situations. Jordan leaving the Bulls for retirement and Lebron leaving the Cavs for the Decision are two totally different circumstances.

Lebron is a great player. He still has a chance to put his name among the best. There will only ever be one Jordan. He was unique. The media's obsession with comparing everyone to Jordan is ridiculous. The guy did things nobody had done before and noone will do again. He came through the crucible of the 80's NBA and dominated in the 90's. He quit at the top of his game and came back and picked up where he left off. He was part of 2 3-peat teams. He was unstoppable on offense, a great great defender, the most clutch playoff player of all time. He won championships with the likes of Will Perdue and Luc Longley at center in an era when people thought you needed a dominant center to win titles. Come on. Noone will ever emulate Jordan, but Kobe and Lebron are great players in their own right and will be remembered for their accomplishments.

Think of it this way - there will never be another Jerry Rice. That doesn't mean that Randy Moss and T.O. weren't great receivers, but there will never be a player who not only had the talent, but also had the determination, took over and dominated when it mattered most, and transcended the position. We shouldn't compare every receiver to Rice, realizing he is a once in a lifetime, perhaps one in forever player. Same with Jordan.
 
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jcbully

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I am a huge Lebron fan. He's probably gonna go down as my favorite athlete ever. I love his game. He does **** I've never seen done granted I'm only 23 and started watching the NBA at the end of the Jordan(Bulls) era. When MJ left the Bulls, they were a couple of bad calls away from Pippen taking them to the Finals without MJ. But, nonetheless they were in the Conf Finals. When Lebron left Cleveland they automatically turned to **** and will most likely always be ****. Right now, Jordan is the better player ONLY because of the rings argument. In 5 years, if he's got 4/5/6 rings then he is right up there with Jordan or above. The NBA has never seen a player with the capabilities of Lebron. Like John Barry says he can be Magic Johnson, he can be MJ, just depends on what his team needs. And all of you self righteous mother 17'ers that hate him bc of the decision are delerious. Ask yourself if you wouldn't make the same decision in his shoes? You wouldn't want to play in a bigger market with better weather with 2 of your best friends and a chance to become legendary as opposed to dwelling in mediocrity with a franchise that consistently refused to make the deals to get the kind of help he needed. And as far as all around players go, no one in the league today plays both ends as hard as he does. He shut down the MVP of the league in 4/5 games in the 4th quarter while closing the Bulls out on the offensive end.<div>
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VirgilCain

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thank you for not being a Jordan-Nazi. Jordan will forever be the best "of his time." That quotation is in no way an insult, I just happen to believe that sports, and even the human race, evolve. I believe todays game, no matter the sport, is based off of and BETTER than YESTERDAY.

Jordan (within his era) was better than anyone, in any sport that I can think of...."during their era" BUUUUTTTTT that was 20 years ago....

I DO NOT think that you could insert "90's Jordan" into a 2010 lineup and have him be the "I wanna be, I wanna be, I wanna be,... LIIKKKKEEE MIIIKKKKKEEEE" type of player he was around the turn of the 80s/90s decade. Its simple as the evolution of any sport or player.

Could you insert Jim Brown in a 2010 NFL lineup? In my opinion, Jim Brown dominated the NFL even more than Jordan Dominated the NBA. But what if you told an NFL team that you had a 6'2" 230 RB?..... You would be laughed at because (unless they are barry sanders) every NFL running back in 2011 is comparable to that size/frame. I understand that Jordan's build was not issue, but in todays game, his ability (physically) would be considered par for the course. And that type of player is now "par for the course" because HE (MJ) changed the game, and players emulate him to this day.

If you reply with anything referring to Jordan's "mental prowess" I will not reply because that is in no way what I'm talking about
 
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Stormrider81

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But the argument that the Bulls made it to the conference finals and the Cavs fell apart is just plain dumb. It is the worst of arguments because it totally ignores circumstances.

Jordan is the best player ever. That's not because he has 6 rings. Rather, he has 6 rings because he is the greatest ever.

Here's what I think is funny. Some people argue against Jackson being a great coach because he had Jordan and Kobe. Some people diminish Jordan's titles because he had Jackson as coach and Pippen and Rodman (for 3). What sense does all that make? None.

No, Jordan didn't single handedly win titles. At the same time, neither did Lebron. Noone does. Michael transcended and changed the NBA forever. He was unstoppable for the entirety of his career. He came into the league when it was drenched in great teams and talent. He won 6 titles while being the best all around player ever and being an incredible clutch player. Noone will ever top Michael. Some may have similar talent or potential, but the combination of determination, leadership, work ethic, and clutch play will never been seen again. It's like Jerry Rice at WR. Moss has the potential to match him, but didn't. Why? While he was fast, tall, could get open, could rack up stats and all of that, he lacked things that made Rice the best. Lebron is the best player in the NBA today. Period. No question. He will go down as an all time great. But I don't think he has the same total package to match Jordan. I doubt anyone ever will. That's why Lebron brought his talents to South Beach. I don't fault him for the Decision. </p>
 
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Dogstar

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You can leave the Jordan for the Lebron and the Chris Robinson for **** - soon I see you leaving Virgil Cain and becoming George Stoneman.
 
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Dogstar

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Am drunk in Destin and re-wrote the 1st post and that is why the the's are where they are. Blah-blah--blah-blah-blou-blah-blah.
 
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VirgilCain

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outdone by myself. I love defending a point that I don't even remember making (check the times of my first replies to this topic... its cerca 2am).

I understand the nouns (C.Robinson=BlackCrowes, G.Sherman refers to the song I got VirgilCain from) in your post, and appreciate you reverence for "the Band", but I cannot begin to understand the meaning/point of your post... sorry

No love lost, and you continue to be the "double-reply to a single post" KING!
 
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VirgilCain

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Here is a link that I thought I post earlier but I guess not
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=dw-cavaliers060207

As far as good players, who did Jordan have a Chicago?
Answer: Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant, Tony Kukoc (9x Europe POY), Bill Cartwright, Luc Longley (best Australian player of the time), Jon Paxson, Dennis Rodman (HOF?), Ron Harper, B.J.Armstrong, Will Perdue

...Thats off the top of my head... please dont make me do research!
 
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Stormrider81

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The NFL body types have changed considerably since then. I don't think the same could be said for the NBA.

Put Jordan in today's NBA and he will be the same. He wasn't a guy that was great because he was bigger, or faster, or taller than everyone else. He was great because he had natural talent and an incredible determination.

Some players are great because of their natural ability. Some are great because they have some size or speed advantage. Some are great because they have natural ability and determination/work ethic. Shaq was great because he was athletic and bigger than everyone else. He lacked Jordan's determination.

Jordan was greatest of all time. Let's leave Lebron alone and see where he has put his name in 5-10 years.</p>
 
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Stormrider81

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you have a solid PF in Horace Grant, nothing great. You have average guards in Paxson, Armstrong, and Harper. Kukoc wasn't bad but he was great either. Longley was good for fouling Shaq and hitting an occasional baseline shortrange jumpshot. I'll give you Pippen. Rodman was a great rebounder and a good defender, but was also an incredible headcase that San Antonio was thrilled to ship out of town. Without Jackson and Jordan to keep him in line, that could have been a disaster. More talented than the Cavs? Yes, but they also did a ton more than the Cavs. Chicago was a pretty well run organization, Cleveland is not.
 
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klong17

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Stormrider81 said:
"No, Jordan didn't single handedly win titles. At the same time, neither did Lebron. Noone does. Michael transcended and changed the NBA forever. He was unstoppable for the entirety of his career. He came into the league when it was drenched in great teams and talent. He won 6 titles while being the best all around player ever and being an incredible clutch player. Noone will ever top Michael. Some may have similar talent or potential, but the combination of determination, leadership, work ethic, and clutch play will never been seen again. It's like Jerry Rice at WR. Moss has the potential to match him, but didn't. Why? While he was fast, tall, could get open, could rack up stats and all of that, he lacked things that made Rice the best. Lebron is the best player in the NBA today. Period. No question. He will go down as an all time great. But I don't think he has the same total package to match Jordan. I doubt anyone ever will. That's why Lebron brought his talents to South Beach. I don't fault him for the Decision."

Well said, people just don't understand the determination, leadership, work ethic, and clutch play that Jordan had.

Also Bruiser saying that LBJ has a better jump shot than Kobewas just plain ignorant. LBJ has had a good month & everyone is ready to crown his ***. Please.
Click to expand...
 
K

klong17

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Stormrider81 said:
The NFL body types have changed considerably since then. I don't think the same could be said for the NBA.

Put Jordan in today's NBA and he will be the same. He wasn't a guy that was great because he was bigger, or faster, or taller than everyone else. He was great because he had natural talent and an incredible determination.

Some players are great because of their natural ability. Some are great because they have some size or speed advantage. Some are great because they have natural ability and determination/work ethic. Shaq was great because he was athletic and bigger than everyone else. He lacked Jordan's determination.

Jordan was greatest of all time. Let's leave Lebron alone and see where he has put his name in 5-10
years.</p>
Click to expand...
You're all over this. Again, well said.
 
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Dogstar

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Sorry for giving you ****. I probably shouldn't read and certainly shouldn't reply to message boards when I get hammered. But sometimes your posts remind me of this:?<div>
</div><div><span> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3SDvfGyBNIo?f=videos&app=youtube_gdata" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355" allowScriptAccess="never" ></embed> </span>
<div>?</div><div>It doesn't mean you are or I am not - anyway - happy Memorial Day.?</div><div><div>
</div><div>???</div></div></div>
 
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