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Leeshouldveflanked

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OT- I was surprised how small the Alamo was when I went to San Antonio
 

mstateglfr

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That might be true of some states, but the day Texas secedes, it will be the 8th largest economy in the world, just behind France and just ahead of Italy.
But how much of that is heavily based on federal funds that have freely flowed into the state for decades to create the infrastructure, education, and industry that makes Texas' economy so large?

To secede from a country and then claim you are the 8th largest global economy, as if that's an accomplishment of yours, would be the most 'born in third base acting like you hit a triple' thing a seceded state could do.


Federal expenditures in Texas are one and a half times as much as what our state and local government revenues pay for, combined.
 

Maroon Eagle

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The only issue was the injunction against the Feds from cutting the razor wire. I believe the primary argument was prohibiting the Feds from cutting the wire denied them access to the area around the border which they are in charge of protecting.

Yep. The Supremes want to keep things as narrowly focused as possible.

Texas was keeping the Feds from doing their job.

All Texas needs to come up with a passive aggressive way to irritate the Feds and at the same time allow them to do their job. If they do that, the Supremes will allow it.
 

T-TownDawgg

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Enjoy getting worked up by people who don't intend to fix anything. Just a bunch of theatrics and positioning for elections.
This.

Greg Abbott has been in office as TX governor since 2014, almost 10 years. He chooses the year of our Lord 2024, a hotly debated presidential race, (three-plus years into a Biden administration) for this political posture.

He either senses he's going to get destroyed in the next gov election, or he feels weakness from the Biden string-pullers, and is trying to capitalize.
 

TNDawg1

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We’ve militarized other parts of the world, I don’t see why we couldn’t militarize our own border and even move training bases there. I sympathize with the people who have no ulterior motive in crossing but we need to go back to the naturalization process as previously directed and have a tighter grip on documented worker status. I get the sense that communication and shared data is mucked up like practically every federal agency tends to get.
 

pseudonym

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But how much of that is heavily based on federal funds that have freely flowed into the state for decades to create the infrastructure, education, and industry that makes Texas' economy so large?

To secede from a country and then claim you are the 8th largest global economy, as if that's an accomplishment of yours, would be the most 'born in third base acting like you hit a triple' thing a seceded state could do.


Federal expenditures in Texas are one and a half times as much as what our state and local government revenues pay for, combined.
IMG_1325.gif
 
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GloryDawg

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Enforce the law that is on the books. That's pretty damn simple. Biden is not upholding the constitution. He took an oath to do so. He better hope the Supreme Court rules Presidents have immunity for action taken while in office because his DOJ has opened up a big fat can of stink with the January 6th bull ****.
 

dog12

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Federal law unambiguously supersedes state law in matters of immigration.

Does a random unknown person illegally crossing America's border fall under the definition of "immigrant?"

Doesn't "immigration" involve a visa that gives a non-citizen permission to come into America?

America has immigration laws. Are the people crossing our southern border following those laws? If they aren't, then are they immigrants?

Does Texas have any right to defend it's border from non-citizens?

(These are serious questions for anyone that can answer them or wants to answer them, not just Dorndawg.)
 

Perd Hapley

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Enjoy getting worked up by people who don't intend to fix anything. Just a bunch of theatrics and positioning for elections.
Damn straight. All the pearl clutching over fences, barbed wire, walls, etc. is such a bunch of hot air. But you have to fight battles in terms that the dumbest 17ing mongoloids on both sides can understand (that’s 85% of the country, by the way). So here we are.

The overwhelming majority of illegal immigration is from folks who come in perfectly legally through the front door, and just don’t leave at the time mandated by the visa.

Abbott is simply posturing for a potential Trump cabinet position, a Senate seat, or a 2028 presidential bid. Maybe all of the above.
 
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TNDawg1

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Does a random unknown person illegally crossing America's border fall under the definition of "immigrant?"

Doesn't "immigration" involve a visa that gives a non-citizen permission to come into America?

America has immigration laws. Are the people crossing our southern border following those laws? If they aren't, then are they immigrants?

Does Texas have any right to defend it's border from non-citizens?

(These are serious questions for anyone that can answer them or wants to answer them, not just Dorndawg.)
That’s the thing, language is constantly being manipulated in the media. There’s constant accusations of one side opposing immigration. We get constantly get editorials about how immigration built this country. Yeah, no ****. Opposition to what’s being allowed at the border is xenophobia though.
 
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paindonthurt

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I suspect the DOJ will bring charges against Abbott before this is over. It is going to get really ugly. The only way around it for Biden is to just give in and let Texas protect its boarder or activate and federalize the Texas National Guard taking command of it away from the Governor. Texas and Abbott is not backing down.
And both of those things are bad for Biden. What an absolute 17ing bafoon.
 
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mstateglfr

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That’s the thing, language is constantly being manipulated in the media. There’s constant accusations of one side opposing immigration. We get constantly get editorials about how immigration built this country. Yeah, no ****. Opposition to what’s being allowed at the border is xenophobia though.
Yeah, the Cato paper linked above about legal immigration hits on this. Legal immigration 17ing plummeted under Trump and was well documented at the time too.
He proudly restricted immigration and boasted about it. He continually railed against people from specific countries for no other reason than they were from those countries.
It was a clear message- he wanted fewer immigrants and the immigrants and international students he did want were only welcome from certain countries/areas.
 

paindonthurt

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This sort of argument can easily be made for just about anything that someone dislikes at the federal level.
'I don't like how the Fed Gvt is handling this, so it should be a state decision to ensure I get what I want!'

A Federal law or Federal enforcement of a law is not taxation without representation, just because you dislike the law or how it is enforced.




To be very clear, I find the current administration's immigration approach and policies to be largely ineffective and unimpressive.
Additionally, I found the prior administration's approach and policies to be abhorrent and embarrassing.
Trump reduced LEGAL immigration, but was ineffective for illegal immigration. This is according to a CATO paper(not exactly a liberal thinktank). https://www.cato.org/blog/president...gration-he-did-not-reduce-illegal-immigration

Our country's immigration actual policies and procedures are a joke. They are slow, limiting, and conflicting. A genuine reform of the entire immigration process needs to happen, but won't.
What was abhorrent about it? Putting kids in cages like Obama and like Biden?

effectively no difference between any of the 3 policies.
 

ckDOG

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Dec 11, 2007
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Homework. I would enjoy knowing but don't care to research so you experts can chime in.

1) which specific statutes are not being enforced - this thread is too general
2) has Congress authorized the spending to allow the executive to enforce to the extent the law requires
3) name the previous administrations that also didn't enforce these statutes or other related statutes.

My assumption is that you will find a decades long problem of Congress kicking the can and framing the argument based on who is in office at the moment and whether or not it's an election year.
 
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L4Dawg

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We are about to find out if the GOP is serious about actually doing something. As a pragmatic conservative the bill that is being considered in the Senate IMO is about the best we will ever realistically get. If the Trump people shoot it down it pretty much proves they aren't serious about actually governing. The result of shooting this one down will be that absolutely nothing is done. That may be what they want, I don't know.
 

paindonthurt

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We are about to find out if the GOP is serious about actually doing something. As a pragmatic conservative the bill that is being considered in the Senate IMO is about the best we will ever realistically get. If the Trump people shoot it down it pretty much proves they aren't serious about actually governing. The result of shooting this one down will be that absolutely nothing is done. That may be what they want, I don't know.
Yeah how much pork is in it?

My guess it’s like billions to Ukraine and all sorts of other things that have nothing to do with the border
 

Perd Hapley

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I'm going to play Lucifers advocate w/ you. Ok, lets give the Northern Blue states authority to regulate immigration into their states from Canada. Do you really want Burney Sanders and his constituents in Vermont, Illhan Abdullahi Connor in Minnesota, Chuck Schumer or Alexandra Ocasio Cortez from New York, Rashida Tlaib from Michigan controlling immigration into their states? You may as well say "come on in brothers and sisters, there is no border up here!"
And the universal response from Canadians everywhere would be the same as it is now:

“Nah hoser. We’re good.”
 

85Bears

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We are about to find out if the GOP is serious about actually doing something. As a pragmatic conservative the bill that is being considered in the Senate IMO is about the best we will ever realistically get. If the Trump people shoot it down it pretty much proves they aren't serious about actually governing. The result of shooting this one down will be that absolutely nothing is done. That may be what they want, I don't know.
“Pragmatic conservative”

Lol, ok Lindsey Graham
 
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mstateglfr

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What was abhorrent about it? Putting kids in cages like Obama and like Biden?

effectively no difference between any of the 3 policies.
I found the administration's approach to immigration as a whole to be abhorrent. Examples off the top of my head...
- a general making fun of where people are from. 'Oh but it's just words'. He was the 17ing leader of the free world. Act like it.
- claiming a poorly constructed wall with gaps all over the place was a solution and continually claiming it despite, you know, reality.
- claiming another country would pay for the wall.
- severely reducing legal immigration and visa access.
- travel ban and refugee suspension that only engendered ignorant fear and distrust.


Nothing about kids in cages.
And his promise to again initiate travel bans based simply on a country someone is from, his promise to install an ideology screening for immigration, and his promise to build the wall(so rebuild what has already failed both physically and effectively?) if reelected makes it clear he want to be even more extreme in the coming years.

I dislike how Biden has handled immigration in many ways. The app to seek asylum is not great. The time to be heard for asylum isn't great. The limited number of legal applicants each year isn't great. The administration agreeing to extreme right immigration demands a couple months ago to get aid for Ukraine isn't great.



Again, an actual reasonable approach to immigration is needed. One that increases legal immigration(we need it, nobody can honestly and competently argue otherwise), reduces time between application and response for legal immigration and asylum, and increase paths for immigrants that allow for permanent citizenship or legal work. Further, quick deportation of unauthorized individuals that is done in a humane and respectful manner is needed.
^ this would require House Republicans to stop trying to score points on social media via rants at hearings, it would require both parties to actually work together and stop demonizing the other side, and it would require the extremes of both sides(in congress and society) to chill the 17 out and accept that their extreme view isn't realistic.
 

retire the banner

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Man the Biden administration has been an absolute joke. It’s depressing the dems are even attempting to run this back again in November. It’s even more depressing he has a real shot at re-election.
 
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mstateglfr

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Yeah how much pork is in it?

My guess it’s like billions to Ukraine and all sorts of other things that have nothing to do with the border
Funny way to word this, since immigration is a constant topic the right brings up as a negotiating chip when they threaten not to stop providing aid to Ukraine.



I don't want to send absurd amounts of money to Ukraine, but when the alternative is Putin and Russia winning and taking over a sovereign country just because they 17ing wanted to?...yeah, I accept sending money to Ukraine for defense as an acceptable cost.
I would love to be a noninterventionalist and only care about ourselves, but that isn't how this world works.
 

paindonthurt

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I found the administration's approach to immigration as a whole to be abhorrent. Examples off the top of my head...
- a general making fun of where people are from. 'Oh but it's just words'. He was the 17ing leader of the free world. Act like it.
Wah 😫
- claiming a poorly constructed wall with gaps all over the place was a solution and continually claiming it despite, you know, reality.
Same wall Obama funded and built and George and Joe. Same exact wall.
- claiming another country would pay for the wall.
Well you know cutting cost by investing is an ROI aka it pays for itself
- severely reducing legal immigration and visa access.
Good for him!
- travel ban and refugee suspension that only engendered ignorant fear and distrust.
Wah 😭
Nothing about kids in cages.
And his promise to again initiate travel bans based simply on a country someone is from, his promise to install an ideology screening for immigration, and his promise to build the wall(so rebuild what has already failed both physically and effectively?) if reelected makes it clear he want to be even more extreme in the coming years.
All of that is way better than what we got now but wah 😭 my feelings!

as usual you write a book that’s terrible
 

paindonthurt

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Funny way to word this, since immigration is a constant topic the right brings up as a negotiating chip when they threaten not to stop providing aid to Ukraine.



I don't want to send absurd amounts of money to Ukraine, but when the alternative is Putin and Russia winning and taking over a sovereign country just because they 17ing wanted to?...yeah, I accept sending money to Ukraine for defense as an acceptable cost.
I would love to be a noninterventionalist and only care about ourselves, but that isn't how this world works.
Here’s an idea.

Write a bill about stopping illegal immigration and nothing else. That’s a win for EVERY 17ing body. Even illegal immigrants.
 

mstateglfr

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Here’s an idea.

Write a bill about stopping illegal immigration and nothing else. That’s a win for EVERY 17ing body. Even illegal immigrants.
You should tell members in the House and Senate to do just that.
Then watch em not do that.
 

mstateglfr

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Like I posted in the quote you childishly emoji responded to- the leader of the free world should act like a leader.

Same wall Obama funded and built and George and Joe. Same exact wall.
What is your point? It seems like you are arguing whataboutism as justification, but that'd be dumb, so...
Anyways, it didn't work then and it didn't work for Trump. Using your 'point', Trump was basically pushing for a solution that has failed. That's actually worse, in a way.

Well you know cutting cost by investing is an ROI aka it pays for itself
Dumb response that isn't honest or intellectual.

Good for him!
Hold up- you think severely restricting legal immigration and visa access is a good idea? Haha, that explains a lot.

More childish replying. I see why you Love Trump so much. I think blanket travel bans are not smart. That isn't an emotional viewpoint, it's based on how we can best grow our country's economy and sustain our way of life for decades to come. Meanwhile, you are trying to be a clown and mock me on a message board instead of actually thinking about the ramifications of policies.

All of that is way better than what we got now but wah 😭 my feelings!
I think an ideological screening that would subject applicants to determinations based on the whims of whoever is in charge at that moment creates a dangerous and ineffective approach to immigration.
That isn't feelings, it's looking at how a policy could impact us as a country moving forward.
 

Xenomorph

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Feb 15, 2007
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For the life of me I can’t figure out the Democrat play here…

Border states have been screaming at top of their lungs over this issue for 20 years.

Republican presidents have done just enough to say they did something. ….But Democrat presidents have actively ignored the situation.

What’s the deal… punishing red states for voting records?

No stomach for handling the problem and dealing with the bad optics?

Attempting to keep general labor wages low to counteract decades of irresponsible fiscal policy which has handed us untenable inflation?

Hoping to forever flip the entire nation by allowing in millions of future voters that will mostly settle red states?

If it’s the latter.. if Democrats are betting people who will risk their lives.. their children’s’ lives.. to get to a country that will give them the opportunity to work hard for a living… Well.. if they’re betting those people will vote Democrat ..I think they’re in for a helluva surprise

I’m actually convinced they are either playing 4D chess while I’m playing checkers and I’m not intelligent enough to understand their motives.

…Or they’re all so 17ing corrupt that they can’t make a single decision that’s truly in the best interest of the country in which I live.
 
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